OrCad for MSDOS

[pcprogrammer]

In the TEA thread OrCad for MSDOS came up and I wonder if anyone has a cracked version of it.

I myself have a original version with the dongle, but don't think it is easy to run in a DOS box due to the lack of a parallel port.

Here are some pictures of the dongle.

[DC1MC]

I've cracked that 30yrs ago with the Watcom C debugger, who's offering some modest contribution for my cat to do it again  ?

Cheers,
DC1MC

[pcprogrammer]

This is where I post about the software I have https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391455/#msg4391455

Edit: Vince is the one expressing an interest, so lets hear what he has to say

[PA0PBZ]

Can't be too difficult to crack, it must be a simple challenge-response thing. I used to do that using the debug.exe that came with dos.

[DC1MC]

Can't be too difficult to crack, it must be a simple challenge-response thing. I used to do that using the debug.exe that came with dos.

You may have a surprise, this is 386 protected mode code with all bells and whistles, timers anti-stepping, fake "simple checkpoints" that seem to work, but the interface blocks in 5min, or saving is blocked and many other similar "Easter eggs" including int3 detection.

If you do crack this with debug exe I'll buy something for your cat or dog 

[PA0PBZ]

Ok, that was Protel back in the day, probably not as boobytrapped as you mention. Luckily today we have a lot of tools like IDA and such, so I bet it's not that difficult. The challenge is to find the point where the response is checked and always return true, might take a few hours but not impossible I guess.

[DC1MC]

Ok, that was Protel back in the day, probably not as boobytrapped as you mention. Luckily today we have a lot of tools like IDA and such, so I bet it's not that difficult. The challenge is to find the point where the response is checked and always return true, might take a few hours but not impossible I guess.

This is such a naive approach, in '96 only some old games were using it, if I remember correctly this guy had tables of function pointers and variables that were scrambled with the stuff read from the dongle, and those variables and function pointers were determining the behavior of the program, most of the time, after the "easy stuff" fut making it defective in a subtle way, from not generating the photo-plotter files to defective savings or just having some menus hidden. I did remember that pretty late in the cracking game, when we thought we did it, the last booby trap it was that was generating the plotter files mirrored.

The widely circulated at the time cracked version was ca. 30% done and was barely the student version active (limits in schematics) with bad manufacturing files generation. I do remember getting the Intel 386 printed manuals from the Uni to look what the hell some protected mode instructions were doing and what flags were modified.

I seriously doubt that I'll be able to do it fully again and that there is actually people left capable of doing it nowadays, the infrastructure is just not there.

[Vince]

Wow, can't believe we got kicked out of TEA for talking cool ON-topic stuff like reverse-engineering a vintage Electronics CAD tool dongle and making our own.... if that is OT then what is ON topic ? 

I give up on TEA, I don't belong there....

I am really not in the mood for anything EE related now, I am completely pissed ! 

Regardless.... thanks to DC1MC, I now know it's not worth pursuing anyway, as technically WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over my head as a modest simple stuff hobbyist !!!

Unless I can find a cracked version ready to go on the web, I won't bother.... 

PCprogrammer if you do find your cracked copy, post it here of course !

I tried to Google that chip and other than the satisfaction that it is NOT a proprietary chip, but an off the shelf one.... the joy soon disappeared when I realized there was no datasheet to be found, and that it was a fancy dedicated "Security" chip, not just some EPROM with some code in it as I stupidly thought it might be !   

After some Googling, the best I could come up with, is this page :

https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/lets-repo-a-cat702-security-chip.11590/

A site dedicated to retro arcade games. Apparently some arcade games used that security chip as well, so those guys too were trying to "crack" it....

[DC1MC]

@Vince - how and who actually "kicked you out" of the TEA thread ?

[Vince]

Nobody kicked ME... as I said we collectively ( the Orcad people) got kicked out of there.... PCprogrammer got complaints, as he said.... I brought this OrCAD subject on the table and "fueled" it, so the complaints basically were directed at me really.

If PCprogrammer got complaints, or any body else, about this Orcad dongle thing then that means that big brother does not allow what I consider 100% on-topic stuff (and they don't even have the balls to complain publicly ! ).

If I can't post about this stuff on TEA, then I am now truly "scared" of posting ANYTHING, because I would always be fearful of being judged off-topic and a "nuisance" to the well-being of teh thread.

I just don't feel like posting if every time I post something, I have to be scared of being deemed OT. It's not fun any more...


ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!   

My reply to him now looks weird / stupid, like I am talking to some imaginary member, because I did not quote him... given that my reply was right below his post, so there was no need to quote him, it would just have been clutter.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391428/#msg4391428

Strange things happen on TEA...

[Zoli]

In the TEA thread OrCad for MSDOS came up and I wonder if anyone has a cracked version of it.

I myself have a original version with the dongle, but don't think it is easy to run in a DOS box due to the lack of a parallel port.

Here are some pictures of the dongle.

Cross post from TEA + extra:
Speaking about the devil  (see picture)
If these days anybody needs parallel/serial port, the MSI AMD (E)ATX PRO line includes them on-board(disclaimer: consult manual first); lack of LED lighting makes them even more attractive and sexy

[pcprogrammer]

If PCprogrammer got complaints, or any body else, about this Orcad dongle thing then that means that big brother does not allow what I consider 100% on-topic stuff (and they don't even have the balls to complain publicly ! ).

Sorry Vince, the complainer had the balls to do it publicly https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4391476/#msg4391476 and I just kindly responded by moving the topic here. Does it really matter where the talk about something is being held?

If I can't post about this stuff on TEA, then I am now truly "scared" of posting ANYTHING, because I would always be fearful of being judged off-topic and a "nuisance" to the well-being of teh thread.

I just don't feel like posting if every time I post something, I have to be scared of being deemed OT. It's not fun any more...

ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!   

My reply to him now looks weird / stupid, like I am talking to some imaginary member, because I did not quote him... given that my reply was right below his post, so there was no need to quote him, it would just have been clutter.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391428/#msg4391428

Strange things happen on TEA...

It is a bit of a shame that the turmoil of the last couple of weeks is resulting to this, but lets hope that with the new section created things will improve. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4392361/#msg4392361

[pcprogrammer]

Have not had the time yet to play with the old machine. Maybe later today.

And what DC1MC wrote did trigger some thought. I have heard about these dongles doing this code modifying thing. Although interesting to pursue, I have so many other projects that it is not one for me.

The Xilinx dongle that was an easy one. Just a pulse counter that needed to return a pulse after so many counts.

[pcprogrammer]

After some Googling, the best I could come up with, is this page :

https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/lets-repo-a-cat702-security-chip.11590/

A site dedicated to retro arcade games. Apparently some arcade games used that security chip as well, so those guys too were trying to "crack" it....

Unfortunately the link to a github repository given on the above page does not exist anymore. Would have been interesting to see if they had the algorithm used in this chip. That would still leave the "key" for OrCad to be found.

[pcprogrammer]

Nobody kicked ME... as I said we collectively ( the Orcad people) got kicked out of there.... PCprogrammer got complaints, as he said.... I brought this OrCAD subject on the table and "fueled" it, so the complaints basically were directed at me really.

Vince, I looked back and it was not you who brought OrCAD to the table
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4375225/#msg4375225 This is where it started.
You just responded https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4387945/#msg4387945

ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!   

He or she did not post about OrCAD, but about some test equipment. There was a link to some video. Maybe got scared off with your happy there is a new FROG here. 

My reply to him now looks weird / stupid, like I am talking to some imaginary member, because I did not quote him... given that my reply was right below his post, so there was no need to quote him, it would just have been clutter.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391428/#msg4391428

But indeed it looks a bit silly now

This is the one that mentions OrCAD
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4389448/#msg4389448

[Zoli]

...
ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!   
...

I've reported him/her for spam(link to some backpack store); the only thing for which I report a post.

[Black Phoenix]

Well I was posting there, at least trying to help since this kind of stuff interests me as an IT guy (hardware side mainly and autodidact - only College diploma) with a one year vocational Industrial Electronics degree with 5 years of telecommunications support, hardware and equipment configuration.

It was probably the first post I've made in the TEA thread since although going there regularly I always found it overwhelming in terms of updates. I like slower pace threads.

That's a problem I have in this forum, for some reason I find hard to get people to reply to me. I try to be helpful and try to give my experience but most of the time my comment is just one in the middle of active exchanges of other members, with most of the time no one picking it up and continuing. Not always but in the most technical posts is like that.

It makes it look that you need to have a certain amount of status for people to recognise that you are in the corner listening with attention but no one dares to look at you. That's why sometimes I say that I'm afraid of saying anything since I see most as people way higher in knowledge than me and nothing I can say will make a difference in the big scope of things.

But heck, forget the rant, this is not a pandering myself kind of topic. It's just an indication of something I've realised that may be totally wrong.

[DC1MC]

After some Googling, the best I could come up with, is this page :

https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/lets-repo-a-cat702-security-chip.11590/

A site dedicated to retro arcade games. Apparently some arcade games used that security chip as well, so those guys too were trying to "crack" it....

Unfortunately the link to a github repository given on the above page does not exist anymore. Would have been interesting to see if they had the algorithm used in this chip. That would still leave the "key" for OrCad to be found.

The github repository was some rando's fork of Mame, the world's best emulation site and cat702 was added in version 0.178:

https://github.com/mamedev/mame.git to clone the whole stuff or

https://github.com/mamedev/mame/releases/tag/mame0178

to get the version where the file was introduced.

Having the actual valid dongle together with the software is a game changer, we were only having access at it for couple of hour in the night, so we've focused on cracking the code, but if someone has the dongle and the software that uses it, is nowadays elementary to intercept the communication and emulate it, both in sw or hw.

At the tepid German Internet speed that I have here it will take an hour to clone the repository, but then a simple program can be written to buzz the dongle and dump it. If there is interest for the antique best I can even do it.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[pcprogrammer]

Well I was posting there, at least trying to help since this kind of stuff interests me as an IT guy (hardware side mainly and autodidact - only College diploma) with a one year vocational Industrial Electronics degree with 5 years of telecommunications support, hardware and equipment configuration.

It was probably the first post I've made in the TEA thread since although going there regularly I always found it overwhelming in terms of updates. I like slower pace threads.

That's a problem I have in this forum, for some reason I find hard to get people to reply to me. I try to be helpful and try to give my experience but most of the time my comment is just one in the middle of active exchanges of other members, with most of the time no one picking it up and continuing. Not always but in the most technical posts is like that.

It makes it look that you need to have a certain amount of status for people to recognise that you are in the corner listening with attention but no one dares to look at you. That's why sometimes I say that I'm afraid of saying anything since I see most as people way higher in knowledge than me and nothing I can say will make a difference in the big scope of things.

But heck, forget the rant, this is not a pandering myself kind of topic. It's just an indication of something I've realised that may be totally wrong.

I guess that are my sentiments too, Black Phoenix. It all depends on what you bring to the table if it brings interaction or not. And that can make one feel a bit unwelcome.

Sure a bit off topic here, but that is live for you. I noticed you also participated in the discussion of the TEA thread, and there it feels the same  in a sense that not all appreciate the input you bring.

Lets just try to move on and continue with what we enjoy. Technology

[pcprogrammer]

Well I hooked up my old MSDOS machine and I have two versions of OrCAD running on it. A 3.20a version that is schematic editor only which seems to work without a dongle. I was able to make a connection between two 7404 inverters and think I could save it, but I need to connect a lower res monitor, because the alignment on my 1920x1080 monitor is shifted, and auto adjust did not fix it. Did not want to fiddle with the knobs. Because of this the top text was half of the screen.

The other version is V4.40 which gives a startup screen to select different applications, but when I selected Draft it failed on wanting the dongle, so definitely not cracked.

[joeqsmith]

I used to use Orcad for DOS and later switched to Protel.  I don't remember these having a dongle.   

I do remember that the DOS one I had was very limited as far as which video cards it supported.   I bought a new Diamond board and Orcad did not support it so I put together a driver for it.   I thought it may be helpful and uploaded it to their BBS.  They deleted it.  That was the last time I tried to help them.

[joeqsmith]

...
ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!   
...

I've reported him/her for spam(link to some backpack store); the only thing for which I report a post.

The site has a rule about placing copyright  materials on it.  Guessing they don't want to be liable for it.  No idea what happened but maybe they decided it was alright to upload stolen software.   Outside of that, hard to believe it would be deleted.   

[pcprogrammer]

Due to what you wrote I removed what I attached, but the post you refer to had nothing to do with OrCAD. It was apparently just advertisement.


Edit: I'm running what I have on a either Pentium III or IV, can't remember which and did not check when I started the machine. There is a simple video card in there and it works.

[joeqsmith]

I had a programmers book on video cards that had most of the chipsets of the day (800X600).   Seems that Trident was supported by everyone.   I don't remember the version of Orcad I have supporting anything beyond that resolution but that's been what, 30 years?   

Hard to believe they would pull a post over an ad on Orcad.  I've posted old ads like this before along with snips from old articles without any problems. I seem to remember someone posting a link to a site that had a bunch of stolen material on it and that getting deleted.  Could be wrong on that one.   

Most of the copy protected software I used from back then used a burned disk, or some sort of dongle.   I have a few somewhere that I made.  Some of these were just simple counters with a bit of logic.   The Rainbow CPLUS was a bit more complicated using a PROM. 

[pcprogrammer]

Hard to believe they would pull a post over an ad on Orcad.  I've posted old ads like this before along with snips from old articles without any problems. I seem to remember someone posting a link to a site that had a bunch of stolen material on it and that getting deleted.  Could be wrong on that one.   

The post was advertising backpacks, at least according to Zoli. Vince just thought it was about OrCAD, but he was mistaken with another post about it. It was a bit more sophisticated than some of the other spamming seen before. It looked like a post about test equipment with a link to what looked like a video. I did not checked it, but Zoli did.

Most of the copy protected software I used from back then used a burned disk, or some sort of dongle.   I have a few somewhere that I made.  Some of these were just simple counters with a bit of logic.   The Rainbow CPLUS was a bit more complicated using a PROM. 

Yes some of the dongles were very simple with just a counter. I have used Protel for PCB long ago, but can't remember if that had a dongle.