Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal

[Trax]

Yea I saw this its really nice...

[-jeffB]

@Mike,

Nah that's just circa year 2000 long range surveillance kit from IRAQ

The Military kit I am talking about is based upon true high resolution multi megapixel arrays and stuff that I'll not talk about here 

Aurora

@Mike and @Aurora, very cute talking about "we ordinary mortals". 

The increase in resolution is very expensive but does produce 'cleaner' images. In the more affordable cameras running lower resolutions, it is helpful to see some context in the image so that the location of 'areas of interest' may be ascertained. One method of achieving this is using a higher resolution thermal imaging FPA, but these bring with them increased cost. 320x240 resolution FPA's do produce an image that the human brain can correlate with the visible domain in order to localise the area of interest. 80x60 resolution is a little more challenging, especially when working at some distance from the area of interest. The solution is often to move much closed to the target in order to gain a better understanding of the scene.

When I was studying graphics and visual perception in grad school, I learned that structure from motion is also important -- for example, a spattering of five or ten dots in a still image is unintelligible, but if it's a moving image of markers attached to an actor's body, you can recognize it almost instantly as a human figure, and often figure out what the human is doing, up to and including emotion.

The much-lamented 9Hz refresh rate is enough to add a great deal of structure-from-motion value in even very low-res IR imaging. I can only imagine (since I can't yet get my hands on the equipment) that that value is even greater with a 30Hz or 60Hz frame rate.

[Fraser]

@jeffb

I am but a mere mortal (very mortal in fact) who stumbled upon a seller of some 'old technology' MoD surplus equipment. Right time and place sort of thing. But I could not go to the OEM and buy this sort of equipment. For a start it has no manufacturer identification on its parts ! As the seller found out, manufacturers of MoD equipment will not even give members of the public the time of day    (Understandable really)

Regarding movement... I totally agree with you. The SEEK images looked far better when recorded as a video. Movement engages the brain in a different way to a fixed image.  Hence why we have tolerated non HD TV for some many years. The relatively low resolution 625 line TV that I have been watching all my life was processed by the brain to look quite acceptable 

Aurora

[jeffreythe00]

I just got an update.

Software version 1.8.0.
Camera firmware is still 1.3.0

• Framerate has gotten a lot better.
• Image quality doesnt seem to have improved
• They added a feature that allows us to better align the thermal and phone/tablet camera
• They also added fullsceen

Overall I'm very happy with the update.

[eneuro]

Seek Thermal is noisy.
...
(Seek and Flir One resized to 384px by width)

Therm-App:
Seek Thermal:
Flir One:

If you resized to higher width Seek (Flir One nothing to compare-it has thermal blobs at low res) than you introduced noise and created artificial thermal pixels 

Anyway, did you used the same thermal color map-I do not think so-especially Therm-App palette is probably very different, so not too much to compare since no visual camera image included, so only guessing what details are missing and how those thermal cameras deal with different emissivity settings...

[blackboxdisease]

Does anyone know if there is a splitter/Y-adapter that has the ability to charge both the phone and offer bidirectional communication with the SEEK Thermal camera? What I want to do, is connect a Y adapter/Splitter to the phone, then another into a battery pack and then the other cable into the thermal camera. So far all the ones I've found on Ebay only offer to power the external devices only, but this is inadequate since I want to use the camera for an uninterrupted extended period of time.

OR

Where I can find the software someone had written for Windows that talks to the camera and if it provides real-time output like normal usb camera's.

I'm trying to find some solution to be able to use this damn thing without human interaction for a continuous six hour period.

[miguelvp]

I don't think you can. The phone has to be on host mode meaning that it does supply power so it can't be recharged at the same time.

You can however use a powered USB hub so that it feeds the power needed to the camera instead of using the phone's battery, but because it's all micro usb you will have to get adapters and what nots.

Only thing I can think of is to use a tablet that has a separate power connector and still have OTG capabilities but you will have to find a device that is compatible with the seek.

[blackboxdisease]

That's what I thought. I suppose I could test to see if the seek application continues to record when the screen is off, since that's the biggest drain on the battery. I wish Mike would indigogo that dedicated device he built as linked by Aurora in post #1800 above. A thermal USB webcam/dedicated portable device would be kick ass for numerous people I believe. I wonder if it's possible to interface the device by replacing the lens and sensor of a gopro or similar camera.

[miguelvp]

Where I can find the software someone had written for Windows that talks to the camera and if it provides real-time output like normal usb camera's.

I'm trying to find some solution to be able to use this damn thing without human interaction for a continuous six hour period.

Completely missed your 2nd part: my last windows code compiled is here:

http://www.miguelvp.com/ForMike/Seek/

I made one for Marshall that matched his dead pixels in a subdirectory there.

Source is burried somewhere in this thread, but I remember the original one made by sgstair is on github, more info on his original post.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yet-another-cheap-thermal-imager-incoming/msg534497/#msg534497

I'm getting close to free up some time to keep on improving the code.

[OrBy]

not to promote FLIR at all... but this is basically their clone of Mike's cam. http://www.amazon.com/FLIR-C2-Compact-Thermal-Imaging/dp/B00T9RANUC

Not really a clone once you factor in MSX, touch screen, image storage, and so on. Not worth $700+ in my view since a hackable E4 can be had for a bit more but still an interesting product!

[blackboxdisease]

Seeker just keeps crashing when running it after installing the winusb drivers. Ah well.

[miguelvp]

Seeker just keeps crashing when running it after installing the winusb drivers. Ah well.

The source is in this link

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yet-another-cheap-thermal-imager-incoming/msg552223/#msg552223

And this link has info on what to install, it's Zadig and I think the github has information on how to do it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yet-another-cheap-thermal-imager-incoming/msg552555/#msg552555

Also make sure you have the dll's because you'll need those, not just the executable.

I've been very busy with real life work so I haven't touched this for the last 4/5 months while finishing MK-X and even if it's out I'm still quite busy.

[efahrenholz]

not to promote FLIR at all... but this is basically their clone of Mike's cam. http://www.amazon.com/FLIR-C2-Compact-Thermal-Imaging/dp/B00T9RANUC

Not really a clone once you factor in MSX, touch screen, image storage, and so on. Not worth $700+ in my view since a hackable E4 can be had for a bit more but still an interesting product!

I can guarantee you it isn't a stolen idea. Flir had been working on this long before Mike ever dreamed this up. It takes a lot of time to get tooling for molds, circuit designs and etc ready for mass production. This was likely a targeted device for contractors that needed a rugged thermal imager that was a little more compact.

Now Mikes take on this is far more compact, which is totally awesome. I'm convinced it's the smallest thermal camera with built-in screen that has ever been shown off. If he had the time, he could get some friends together to help develop a tiny arm board to process the video (blur) and add an OSD for temp readout. Probably would be a very popular project if the old lepton modules ever come down in price. I bet almost every EE on here would be interested in building one if a kit could be developed. Mike do you see any £ in your future? ;-)

[mikeselectricstuff]

not to promote FLIR at all... but this is basically their clone of Mike's cam. http://www.amazon.com/FLIR-C2-Compact-Thermal-Imaging/dp/B00T9RANUC

Not really a clone once you factor in MSX, touch screen, image storage, and so on. Not worth $700+ in my view since a hackable E4 can be had for a bit more but still an interesting product!

I can guarantee you it isn't a stolen idea. Flir had been working on this long before Mike ever dreamed this up. It takes a lot of time to get tooling for molds, circuit designs and etc ready for mass production. This was likely a targeted device for contractors that needed a rugged thermal imager that was a little more compact.

Now Mikes take on this is far more compact, which is totally awesome. I'm convinced it's the smallest thermal camera with built-in screen that has ever been shown off. If he had the time, he could get some friends together to help develop a tiny arm board to process the video (blur) and add an OSD for temp readout. Probably would be a very popular project if the old lepton modules ever come down in price. I bet almost every EE on here would be interested in building one if a kit could be developed. Mike do you see any £ in your future? ;-)

I had plans to develop it further, probably with OLED display, storage etc. but other stuff got in the way, plus it would end up quite expensive for a toy device. I was thinking along the lines of a keychain type thing, but would have wanted to make it robust, with some sort of slide-over lens & screen cover - haven't had the time to look at it for a while, and little prospect any time soon.
I have got a 25 deg lepton from Digikey but all I've done with it so far is plug it into the Flir One - the narrower FOV does look more useful.

[eneuro]

The phone has to be on host mode meaning that it does supply power so it can't be recharged at the same time.

My phone for example with replaced Li-on battery with... small 4.1V PSU connected to 12V car starter battery doesn't need to be recharged while phone is running on car battery for weeks if not months 
Probably you can do the same with your phones and easy use Seek toy for hours without worry phone battery will be deplated at some time 

[Uho]

I made a telephoto lens X3. But it shows in inverted form. 

[eneuro]

But it shows in inverted form.

Not such a big deal while oryginal Seek software is useless, while it completely destroys thermal image around cursor by making this bloody shadow rectangle 



Anyway in custom Seek software it is easy flip this thermal image with custom lens, however for phone usage probably the only way to use those lens is additional USB wire, while lens front mass creates decent mechnical momentum on USB stick and it could damage phone USB port if holded in hand without additional lens support 

[-jeffB]

I made a telephoto lens X3. But it shows in inverted form. 

Most telescopic arrangements do invert the image. It's easy to fix if you have control over the image-acquisition or display software, as @eneuro said. As the images show, it's actually a 180-degree rotation, not a vertical flip (or, if you prefer, it's a vertical flip and a horizontal flip).

Since I was using my Seek with a Nexus 7 that has the wrong-way USB connector, I had to use an adapter cable. With that arrangement, it would be easy enough to just rotate the Seek unit 180 degrees, and then everything would be fine. 

[Uho]

I have a cord. But we need to come up with mount. 

[efahrenholz]

I'm surprised nobody sells a short micro usb adaptor that is there to simply change the direction of the port orientation. I mean, you'd sell plenty of these. Seek thermal and the next Flir One will need them. It's going to be nothing more than a female micro usb, a male micro usb, a short run of wire between the two (something long enough to twist)  and a plastic shell,  or even more common--a rubberized coating. Just need a machined mold, then mount and inject the rubber. Any cable factory is already setup to do this is massive runs. Sell them for $5 a piece. Seek and Flir would buy them by the thousands. Walk away rich.

[alank2]

How often does zoro offer their 30% discount?

[joe-c]

Hello,
i had not enough time to make it done... but the program has some improvements.
now the processed Frame was delivered as 2 dimensional array, this make the post processing faster and easier .

Only with Median Filter the image looks blurry but good.
on the Smartphone the image looks clearer... and no gradient...
maybe some of the other "special" Frames at the starting needs to be involved.

well... I have no more time now... I improve my Ex-Tools and the Thermoviewer...

cheers!

[Fraser]

Hi Joe-c,

Pleased to hear that you will be continuing work on your excellent Ex program. Great stuff. Much appreciated 

Aurora

[Fraser]

If anyone wants to see what lives inside a circa 2002 FLIR E2, I have been posting a teardown and analysis here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-thermal-camera-for-teardown-my-latest-patient-the-e2/

The Patent document provides a great deal of insight into the challenges of the optical stages that sit in front of the microbolometer. Specifically, how to avoid internal reflections and off axis influences. That document combined with the pictures I have posted, show you teh diaphragm assembly that FLIR consider necessary for a decent image.

I think SEEK either ignored the 'ground rules' on thermal camera optical block design, or just didn't care. Their lens tube certainly appears flawed.

E2 Patent is to be found here:

http://www.google.co.in/patents/US6707044

Worth a read.

Aurora

[eee]

finally picked up a seek after needing it to measure temps for a project. After all the negative comments on here I really wasn't keeping my hopes up high, but I'm actually quite surprised at the images it produces (to the point where I can't see why there were so many complaints). Am I missing something here, or has something been improved in the app software version (I've only started using it a few weeks ago so never experienced the earlier versions).

Here are some sample shots - not hard to make out that's a laptop for example...