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What is the most inexpensive 30Hz thermal camera core available to the USpublic?
Posted by David1234 on 07 Oct, 2017 18:27 -
You can get great used thermal cameras that are 30Hz on eBay, but not repeatedly, and they have many different interfaces which makes getting the data challenging. The Leptons are cool but they are laggy and only 9Hz. You can't buy the 30Hz lepton in quantities of one anywhere. What is the next-best option for a almost zero-latency, 25-30Hz thermal core? I don't care about the screen or anything. I just need a fast, non-laggy core.
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Have you looked at the boson?
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Get a VUE and remove the backpack and interface to the core directly
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There are 30hz Lepton made for scopes.
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the T12 W and T12 M seem to be 30hz lepton build into rifle scopes.
I thin kthey cost arround 700$
http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/t12/ -
Boson and TAU2 are quality cores available with 30 FPS refresh rates in the USA. Not cheap though.
It may be worth looking at the SPi web site as they often have 30FPS cores at decent prices but I cannot buy them as they will not ship outside the US.
Fraser -
SPi offer some discounted cores here.....
http://spi-wholesale.com/product-category/thermal-camera-cores/
160 x120......
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/2000as-0151-raytheon-thermal-imager-core-0151/
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/raytheon-infrared-camera-core-0446/
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/2000as-thermal-core-0668/
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/2000as-microbolometer-0421/
320x240.......
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/l3-thermal-eye-4500as-core-320x240-50-deg-397/
Fraser
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The problem with all of these is that they are a lot more than the $200 leptons. We really just need some way to buy the 30Hz leptons. The rifle scopes with 30Hz leptons are a ripoff because they are marked way up. I also don't need the screen or any of the other stuff. I can get 30Hz 320x240 Ratheon 300D's for around $400 but not regularly as they are used and not in production. Otherwise, they would be perfect.
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You asked for the most inexpensive thermal camera that provides 30fps refresh.
The Lepton 30FPS version is not generally available.
You are left with higher quality thermal cores as your way forward. Such higher quality cores tend to cost more than the tiny Lepton cores. That is just a fact of life. There are no cheap 30FPS cores commonly available, if there was, I would have been buying them.
I bought Ex fire brigade thermal cameras as they contain high frame rate cores They do not meet your criteria for being commonly available however. Their prices also vary greatly. I purchased five very nice SCOTT Eagle X cameras recently at bargain prices. They contain the venerable BAE SCC500 high speed core.
I cannot think of any core that will meet your need for 30FPS, low price and common availability at this point in time. You have not indicated how many you actually need. You may wish to investigate auction houses that sell Ex fire brigade equipment you might come across a batch of decommissioned thermal cameras that can provide good cores for your project. A friend of mine purchased around 40 ARGUS 2 and 30 ARGUS 3 cameras in this way. Be warned, condition does vary and some needed repair work.
You mention the Raytheon Thermal Eye 300D. It is a nice BST based camera module. A little long in the tooth now but still effective. Very similar modules were used in the BST based ISI Vision 3 fire fighting camera. Sadly I cannot suggest a regular or quantity source of such cameras at low prices.
Please do not take this as a criticism, but you appear to be asking for too much for the amount that you wish to spend. Thermal cameras are generally expensive products. whilst I do understand your frustration at the lack of LEPTON 30FPS core availability, it does not mean that you will easily find an equivalent spec at similar predicted cost per unit. The LEPTON is a very low cost budget core with mediocre perforfornance. More conventionalthermal imaging cores will, cost you more, even on the secondary market. That is just the current situation on such technology.
The SPi stock of Thetmal Eye 2000AS cores is currently being sold at around $500. I can advise that just the lens and microbolometer sensor have a new trade price in excess of that, so the cores are actually being sold at a loss.
Fraser -
Just thinking about this, you would like to buy what Torrey Pines Logic are selling, but without all the parts they add around the Lepton Core. You are aware that they use the 80 x 60 pixel Lepton2 in their scopes right?
If a Lepton2 is adequate resolution for your needs, you might wish to write to Torrey Pines Logic and ask about the possibility of buying the Lepton2 30FPS core through them. Yes you will have to pay a mark-up but you may benefit from their negotiated bulk purchase price from FLIR. Much depends upon how you craft your letter to Torrey Pines Logic and how many cores you need.
It is not uncommon to buy hard to source parts through a broker or OEM agent. The Lepton core may be no different. It will have to be worth the effort of TPL to assist you though. If you ask for one or two cores, expect either a disappointing response, or a high price per unit to cover their administration.
There will likely be some paperwork to complete but they should already be tooled up for that as it is needed for their 30FPS gun sights.
There is no harm in asking but be concise in your requirements and clearly detail your intentions for the higher frame rate core. If you are going into competition with TPL for gun sights, expect nil response ! Also do not let your "I want it cheap" thoughts leak through in communications. That is a sure way to lose their interest. I have had people ask me for very capable thermal cameras provided they are "really cheap" .... nothing like hearing that to make me lose interest in helping ! I get my cameras "cheap" through a lot of hard work and contacts. Torrey Pines Logic will likely think the same way.
You could also write to FLIR with your requirements and a detailed proposal. They may not want to sell direct to you, but they may ask one of the Lepton 30FPS customers if they can help. Don't ask, don't get. FLIR are not officially represented on this forum so you will not get their view on the matter via forum posts.
With regard to the TPL products being overpriced, Hmmmmm..... you build a custom solution for the guns and hunting brigade, who are used to high weapons prices, and you put effort into both the design and manufacture of a rugged and effective thermal gun sight. Why would you not place a high mark-up on the finished product ? It is a niche market after all. Please consider such before saying they are a rip-off. Saying such on a public forum can 'burn bridges' as TPL may well read this forum. You then write to them asking for help..... what do you think they will say, even if they are willing to respond.
Thermal imaging ain't "cheap", it never was
Just my 2 Cents worth
Fraser -
SPi offer some discounted cores here.....
http://spi-wholesale.com/product-category/thermal-camera-cores/
160 x120......
http://spi-wholesale.com/shop/2000as-0151-raytheon-thermal-imager-core-0151/
Fraser
I should add that the Raytheon 2000 core was only 20Hz refresh, although still in a standard NTSC '30Hz' video output.
It was however probably the best unrestricted core ever available from the US, because at the time Wassenaar exempted 'silicon based detectors' from control and the US DoC followed that line. The 2000 was A-Si.
Equally you could say it was so good that the rules had to be changed.
As such it was quite popular in fire service cameras of the time including variants of both Argus 2 and Argus 3 from Marconi/e2v. The majority of those though used Raytheon BST and were controlled product.
Bill
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Good spot Bill. Thanks for the correction
It might help us advise on options if we knew what the OP is intending to use the camera for. As he has already stated that a Thermal Eye 300D is perfect for his needs but high resolutions seems less important, I suspect this is not a drone application, more likely either Automotive night vision or a hunting aid ?
20fps is still prey good inboth applications.
As you say Bill, the 2000AS core was a man stvexcellent core. Even though O now have the lovely BAE SCC500 cores, I am still looking for a nice 2000AS to add to my collection
As stated, I believe that $500 for a 2000AS is not unreasonable from a retailer such as SPi.
I will likely buy a fire fighting camera and extract the 2000AS core though as that can be an even cheaper option, but carries with it some risk. Core documentation can be a challenge to locate however. I think SPi provide documentation with their cores. USA sales only though.
Fraser