Author Topic: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras  (Read 8933 times)

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Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2020, 04:19:55 pm »
Just a little update, my Cameras finally arrived.
The Scott Eagle Imager II was rattling when i got it, the desiccant bag inside broke... so i had to take it apart to get all the silica beads out...  but otherwise both Cameras seem to work.
There is one thing i have noticed, the usb port on the ISG X380 doesnt work at all (it doesnt show up in device manager). I dont know if this is normal for the 3 Button model without DVR.
Its also displaying the Temperature in Farenheit, if someone knows a way to set it to Celsius please let me know...
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2020, 05:32:13 pm »
Good news that the cameras arrived safely  :-+

What core did you find in the Eagle Imager II please ? I was expecting Indigo/FLIR

The ISG X380 has a hidden menu to configure some basic functions. The hidden menu mode is easy to access but protected by a password that is not in the public domain and I cannot provide.

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Offline ArsenioDev

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2020, 07:18:51 pm »
Eagle 2 is a BAE MicroIR core.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2020, 08:56:39 pm »
I was expecting FLIR because the camera is marked up with FLIR references  ;)

I attach pictures from this particular cameras auction. FLIR Systems is definitely involved in its build. The fact that there is a FLIR PCB in the battery bay suggests that FLIR is the OEM for this camera.

Not sure what core is hiding in there though.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 08:58:30 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2020, 09:04:55 pm »
DIY battery details for a Eagle 2 compatible battery.

 http://hbaar.com/Homepage/?Bastelbude:Basteleien:Akku_f%C3%BCr_Scott_Eagle_Imager_II

I would do it differently but it is one approach to the challenge.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2020, 09:31:21 pm »
I have done some research and the Eagle Imager II is indeed a FLIR engineered product.

https://www.safe-ir.com/camera-types

I also found a purchase request that has a nice Eagle II Q&A brochure at the end

http://www.downers.us/public/docs/agendas/2001/april-24-2001/thermalimaging.pdf

Fraser

« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 09:32:53 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2020, 12:52:50 am »
2001 was 'top lies' and  :bullshit:  time in the fire camera market wasn't it  :-DD :-DD even Scott joined in   

'... camera can see .007 degree ' - so 7mK !

'   features an automatic focus adjustment  '
' patented redundant cooling system that battles heat '
' not old tube technology' - all the tube cameras (Argus 1) had ended in 1998


Bill

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2020, 01:00:07 am »
Bill,

Yes I saw that 0.007C statement.  :-DD

Note that they say the new microbolometer sensor can ‘see’ 0.007C, not that it can do anything useful with it however ! The pixel can, of course, ‘see’ such a tiny temperature difference but it is lost in the noise of the pixel read-out process :-DD As you say, pure marketing BS.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:05:16 am by Fraser »
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Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2020, 12:23:20 pm »
Yes as already mentioned, its a BAE core inside.
I made some pictures of the internals of the eagle imager, but im not at home at the moment so i post them later...
Thanks alot for the brochure i couldnt find much about the camera.

I already found the website about the custom battery box as my eagle imager II didnt come with a battery. But there was no stl file for download..
So i made my own box in sketchup 3d. Its just a simple box, but i can post the stl file later aswell (just in case someone needs it)
I also took the isg x380 apart and it has all 5 buttons populated so i guess all the required hardware is already there its really just a software upgrade (like on the flir E series)
Fraser, can you atleast tell me how to get into the hidden menu?
I guess its just pressing and holding a combination of buttons or something? even if i dont have the Password it would be interesting.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2020, 01:04:39 pm »
This is quite a discovery regarding the core in the Eagle 2 !

So the claims made by Scott on their documentation for this camera and what the sales reps told potential customers is not really accurate/true. FLIR claimed to have engineered the Eagle 2 using one of their cores. The truth would appear to be that FLIR engineered a thermal camera design that uses a BAE core. I apologise to ‘Arseniodev’ for doubting his comment  :-[

Just thinking about this for a minute, it does make sense. Before FLIR bought Indigo they did not have the OMEGA or Photon series of cores. I thought they may have bought in an OMEGA core for this project but they clearly opted for the BAE product. This camera is from an era prior to when FLIR had its own selection of compact imaging cores and, unlike now, they bought in the parts that they needed from core OEM’s. It is easy to forget that FLIR only became the manufacturer of a vast array of camera types by the purchase of other companies that had the skills and experience to build such. FLIR could be considered a sort of ‘Management Company’ that ‘Borged’ what it needed to become the company that we see today. A case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts as Aristotle would say.

The BAE core will be nice quality and can be configured using a PC connected to its serial communications port. I would need to check whether it is RS232, RS422 or RS485. I think it is RS422.

The X380 configuration menu is indeed accessed through a button sequence. From memory you have to hold the two outer buttons down whilst switching the camera on with the middle button. I would need to check though. The X380 uses a core and firmware completely designed in-house by ISG. Sadly there is little chance that they will share the configuration password with you but you can ask them and see what they say.

The password challenge is a nightmare design that uses a vertical column of both Alphanumeric and symbol characters with selection using the two function buttons for each character followed by selecting a ‘return’ symbol. It is a bit of a nightmare process as button debouncing appears to be lacking ! You cannot easily brute force or guess the password  :( I do not have the “X380” password in my archives. I think you are stuck with the Fahrenheit scale.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:07:32 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2020, 01:25:52 pm »
The BAE core will be nice quality and can be configured using a PC connected to its serial communications port. I would need to check whether it is RS232, RS422 or RS485. I think it is RS422.

If it is the 500 series, it is RS485 as attached brochure.  that was the most common core for US camera builders at the time.  Much more complicated elsewhere as any VOx core had a tighter approach to export controls than the BST / ASi.

The X380 configuration menu is indeed accessed through a button sequence. From memory you have to hold the two outer buttons down whilst switching the camera on with the middle button.
That is an Argus4 'reset to factory' - I think the ISG was 'all 3 for ages'.
I do not know where you get if trying to talk to 'ISG' now.  The Scott and then 3M takeover has shut all the technical side, just manufacturing up in Wigan ploughing on with the existing X380 model.  You might get lucky if the right ex-employee is still on friendly terms.

Bill
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 02:12:36 pm by Bill W »
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2020, 01:40:01 pm »
Thanks for the corrections Bill. My poor addled brain is not at its best at the moment !  ;D

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:41:41 pm by Fraser »
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Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2020, 12:06:41 am »
Ok i guess i have to live with the Fahrenheit scale then, thanks anyway. Its not that bad, i mean i can roughly calculate the Temp in my head just (deg. Fahrenheit - 30) / 2.
The Camera has to be already ON when holding all 3 Buttons for the Menu to show up, maybe one day i desolder the flash chip to dump the firmware...
i just hate BGAs XD

As promised here are the Pictures and .stl/.skp file for the Batterybox
 

Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2020, 12:08:58 am »
Scott eagle imager II:
 

Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2020, 12:12:05 am »
3 more
 

Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2020, 12:14:53 am »
here is the Batterybox for it, to be honest i havent test printed the case lid i was just to impatient^^
I just put a few pieces of cardboard behind it to push it against the battery contacts XD
But im sure it will fit fine.
 

Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2020, 12:16:14 am »
ISG X380:
 

Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2020, 12:17:45 am »
Sorry it took so long, but i wasnt happy with the pictures i made (made them just for me to remember where everything goes).
So i took everything apart again to make some better Pictures...
also an update on the Camera that didnt get through export customs (MSA Evolution 5600).
I got a full refund from Ebay and an email were they apologize for what happened.
They told me the Seller can also keep my Money, so no one really lost anything.
I have read on a different Forum, that Ebay Auctions these Items off. But not sure if that is true...
I still dont understand why it didnt get through, i bought several Thermal Cameras from the US this year without problems...
even the ISG X380 and Eagle Imager were declared as thermal imagers on the package...
i bet they have the name "MSA Evolution" on there Blacklist now, thanks Fraser XD
The only Thermal Camera cores i have with that Resolution are a few Flir Leptons which i use for my Projects,
and i would like to have something with the same Resolution to compare it to.
i think the Omega would also be the perfect Camera for a Quadcopter. I really like the Design,
no exposed ribbon cables that could break in a crash and a nice protective metal can around the Electronics...

Is there any other firefighting camera brand with the Omega/Micron core?
Im definitely not going to try that again with an MSA branded Camera...
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2020, 07:33:46 pm »
I have just found some pictures of the  “FireFLIR 131”. You may recognise it from the previous pictures of the Scott Eagle II  :)

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2020, 07:36:23 pm »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2020, 07:40:27 pm »
FLIR FF131 user manual....

http://fmwtx.com/pdf_files/FireFLIR%20Manual.pdf

Fraser
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Offline dennis1573

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2020, 08:42:48 pm »
The brochure link isnt working for me, but thanks for the manual. There is not much on the internet about the Scott eagle imager II.
The FF131 seems to the same camera, just Flir-branded so the manual should also apply for my camera :-)
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2020, 09:03:21 pm »
I tried entering the brochure link into Google and it found the file :)

I attach the Brochure PDF :)

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2020, 09:06:26 pm »
In case the user manual link dies, I attach the FF131 PDF

Fraser
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Offline ArsenioDev

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Re: Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2020, 03:08:23 am »
Have we figured out how to control this core yet? I've got two of them sitting around that I'm building into better enclosures.
 


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