New products from Seek

[Logan]

Hi friends.

I just found Seek released two interesting products:
https://www.thermal.com/firepro-300.html
https://www.thermal.com/attackpro.html

They caught my eyes because they have 35mk NETD, "SV1" enhancement (similar to Flir DDE), 25Hz fast frame rate, built-in photo and video recording... And the most important, form factors for normal humans.
--- I can't say enough how I hate the angled design in orginal Reveal series.

At $1k to 4k MSRP, they are not cheap. But if they don't use a crappy platform like the Shot series, I think they are still good for all-in-one thermal imagers.

Thank you for reading my 2 cents.

[Fraser]

Logan,

If you were a fan of Star Trek, you would not hate the Reveal design so much 

The Reveal seemed to take its design cues from the personal Communicator and Phaser 1 used in the original Star Trek 

Fraser

[Logan]

 

[nikitasius]

Funny they had 2 specs, the difference just typos and more text is added.

Also 25Hz, IP67 (why not IP68 damn or even K to resist drops) & 320x240 screen bit outdated.

You can place nice HD screen w/ some image preprocessing to get more nice results (visually).

[Fraser]

I can honestly say that I would not buy any thermal camera that uses the FLIR Lepton or Seek Thermal Mosaic cores now. The competition coming out of China has made them look very much in need of a tech refresh. Infiray and Guide Sensmart cores have their issues but are still great performers. Infiray even make a version of the Seek Reveal ! (see attached pictures)

I see that Infiray produce a fire fighting camera now as well. The F300…..

https://emin.com.mm/infirayf300-infiray-f300-thermal-camera-for-firefighting-384x288-40-2000degc-2-1mrad-2x-4x-ip67-myanmar-110339/pr.html

[nikitasius]

Infiray and Guide Sensmart cores have their issues but are still great performers.

Btw, which issues Infiray have? I ordered one, so just asking to avoid common issues and wrong manipulations.
I know about "don't look at the sun" and "do not film extremely hot surfaces" but did they have some "special" flaws which could limit usage (by condition or by the time)?

[Fraser]

Hi,

Nothing for you to really be concerned about as most firmware used to process the Infiray cores output hides any issues !

I am aware of the following past issues with Infiray cores:

1. Switching between High Gain and Low Gain (High sensitivity & low sensitivity) modes can sometimes challenge OEM's who use the cores, leading to unusual behaviour and temperature measurements. If the issue occurs, it is really obvious ! It can effect changing from Low High Gain to Low Gain or only when trying to switch back to High Gain from Low gain mode.

2. A temperature gradient is sometimes present across the thermal scene when smaller temperature spans are in use. This is just a result of the physical design and is often dealt with in the hosts firmware.

3. Thermal cameras coming out of ASIA can suffer from "over-processed" imaging in an effort to make the thermal images "pop" for the user. This can include excessive edge and contrast enhancement plus some pretty brutal noise reduction. To most casual users this is acceptable as the images often look more impressive. We are working with relatively low resolution imagery so some enhancement is to be expected. To purists, the images can look somewhat false, but then we use false colour anyway so I have to wonder if this is really an issue for many users.

I am sure that you will be very pleased with a camera that is using an IRAY Infiray microbolometer core. What they achieve with 256 x 192 12um pixels is impressive. I make so secret of the fact that I like Infiray products but I am not their agent or connected with them in any way.  I love what can be achieved with their Tiny1 and S0 cores and hope that we may see the development of affordable Infiray QVGA+ and even VGA cores in the years ahead.

Fraser

[nikitasius]

Hi,

Nothing for you to really be concerned about as most firmware used to process the Infiray cores output hides any issues !

I am aware of the following past issues with Infiray cores:

1. Switching between High Gain and Low Gain (High sensitivity & low sensitivity) modes can sometimes challenge OEM's who use the cores, leading to unusual behaviour and temperature measurements. If the issue occurs, it is really obvious ! It can effect changing from Low High Gain to Low Gain or only when trying to switch back to High Gain from Low gain mode.

2. A temperature gradient is sometimes present across the thermal scene when smaller temperature spans are in use. This is just a result of the physical design and is often dealt with in the hosts firmware.

3. Thermal cameras coming out of ASIA can suffer from "over-processed" imaging in an effort to make the thermal images "pop" for the user. This can include excessive edge and contrast enhancement plus some pretty brutal noise reduction. To most casual users this is acceptable as the images often look more impressive. We are working with relatively low resolution imagery so some enhancement is to be expected. To purists, the images can look somewhat false, but then we use false colour anyway so I have to wonder if this is really an issue for many users.

I am sure that you will be very pleased with a camera that is using an IRAY Infiray microbolometer core. What they achieve with 256 x 192 12um pixels is impressive. I make so secret of the fact that I like Infiray products but I am not their agent or connected with them in any way. In fact, after I reviewed their excellent little P2 Pro on this forum they Ghosted me  :'( (that left me feeling "Used" ) I love what can be achieved with their Tiny1 and S0 cores and hope that we may see the development of affordable Infiray QVGA+ and even VGA cores in the years ahead.

Fraser

Wow, thanks for a great (and huge!) reply!
Idk if i can change gain w/ X2 to test it, but i will check.
Measurements aren't important for me, i have tools to mesure surface temp via contact (my Brymen) or remotely via thermometers. I need to see temp difference, anomalies, flaws (on pcbs & laptops) and my dog at night 😁. Find it more handy than 99.9% alcool on pcbs😁
I will check for gradient also and look for your P2 review which i've missed 🤓

[Fraser]

Two reviews for you to read. The P2 Pro that uses the Infiray Tiny1 core and the DYT CA10 that uses the Infiray S0 core that I suspect resides inside your X2 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-infiray-p2-pro-thermal-camera-dongle-for-android-mobile-phones/msg4575070/#msg4575070

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/

[nikitasius]

Two reviews for you to read. The P2 Pro that uses the Infiray Tiny1 core and the DYT CA10 that uses the Infiray S0 core that I suspect resides inside your X2 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-infiray-p2-pro-thermal-camera-dongle-for-android-mobile-phones/msg4575070/#msg4575070

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/

thanks for links, guess i found only 1 

btw,
> DYT CA10 that uses the Infiray S0 core that I suspect resides inside your X2

But in specs S0 goes upto 25Hz, while X2 (XH09) goes up to 50Hz.

[Fraser]

A development of the S0 core so that non Radiometric operation is faster than radiometric ?

[nikitasius]

A development of the S0 core so that non Radiometric operation is faster than radiometric ?

idk

Just that https://youtu.be/IgjnbywPsL8?t=299 (50Hz demo)

Also in comments:
> Tested the X2 with usb cam app.  It shows 50fps.   I posted the short test on my Discord channel.    Also the Discount price is insane nice.
the test i haven't found yet, so i asked for.

Also, from the Aliexpress reviews: some folks told that "when you enable temp it drops to 9Hz" & few months later "devs are fixed the issue and if you use temperature indications, it's 25Hz".

So w/o temp indications and as is it seems to give 50Hz image.

[Fraser]

The Chinese thermal imaging cores continue to develop and this is good to see. The S0 was the released a while ago so I am not surprised that there are new versions of it being developed 

[nikitasius]

The Chinese thermal imaging cores continue to develop and this is good to see. The S0 was the released a while ago so I am not surprised that there are new versions of it being developed 

gonna boot to windows to try some "thermal camera tools", but VLC under debian game me that.

Pixel "stop picture" stabilized into grey one "stop picture" some time after.
Thats weird a bit or normal? i.e. VLC catches 2 frames on 25fps (that "gives" us 50Hz they advertise). Is it 256x192 chip or it's 384x256 which is partially used? Or maybe just a bug in VLC

[nikitasius]

Or probably camera's firmware catch 50Hz and stick frames together and stream into the flow 25Hz 🤔

[Fraser]

It may be good to start a new thread on this as this thread is really intended to be about the new Seek Thermal cameras and your valuable posts will be hidden here from future forum members looking for information on the X2 

Fraser

[nikitasius]

It may be good to start a new thread on this as this thread is really intended to be about the new Seek Thermal cameras and your valuable posts will be hidden here from future forum members looking for information on the X2 

Fraser

You're right, done https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-xh09-x2-series-discussion/