Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown

[Taucher]

No...
But what you think that noise is doing?
.caps.config.image.targetNoise.targetNoiseMk
There I have "measure tool" "line" with "graph", no other measurements.

The explanation is simple: it's intentional worsening of the picture quality to allow a gradient between different models!
So one shall pay 5-6k extra to get the resolution enabled and the artificial noise turned down or removed....

Just set it to zero for best performance - it's just a completely evil function with no benefit whatsoever for the user.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Based on prior discussions it is believed that the noise setting is to control camera sensitivity, perhaps to set the desired figure of sensitivity in the camera specification.

It would be nice to prove this once and for all with an E8 config file - It's so long since I've been messing with the E4 that I've forgotten the details but maybe someone should email Dave with step-by-step instructions to read out the config from his E8....
A lower default noise value would seem a pretty plausible explanation for the different sensitivity specs.


 

[joe-c]

The explanation is simple: it's intentional worsening of the picture quality to allow a gradient between different models!
So one shall pay 5-6k extra to get the resolution enabled and the artificial noise turned down or removed....

Just set it to zero for best performance - it's just a completely evil function with no benefit whatsoever for the user.

I agree with you... just set to zero and have nice values 

@janekivi
nice one... do you have changed something or just activated the measurement line?
I activate it also on my 1.19.8 and the line is measured and could be readout but it was not shown in display.
Same with mcircle, this have also values but was not shown on display.

[Fraser]

Regarding the noise generator...... IIRC even the top of the Exx range still has the noise generator working but at a very low level (5?). There were some theories that some noise was required for image processing but I know nothing of that technique. I have left mine set to 5 as in the top spec Exx camera.

Aurora

[Taucher]

Regarding the noise generator...... IIRC even the top of the Exx range still has the noise generator working but at a very low level (5?). There were some theories that some noise was required for image processing but I know nothing of that technique. I have left mine set to 5 as in the top spec Exx camera.

Aurora

IMHO it's just there to have the option to sell even higher spec'ed devices with the same sensor

[Fraser]

@Taucher,

Yep that is the way FLIR seem to play the game.

Aurora

[bookaboo]

Does anyone know if a normal car micro-b  car charger is compatible with the E4? I'm pretty sure that it would be but I'd be a little concerned about magic smoke. I'm thinking of using a genuine Samsung S2 type, not a cheap china type or anything.

[Fraser]

The FLIR E4 OEM charger is rated at a higher current than the everyday phone chargers. This is to enable faster charging at up to 2A rather than the more common phone rate of up to 800mA.

I bought some high current car chargers that were designed for a tablet as they tend to have higher rated chargers. I think mine were 2.5A.

Most devices that can fast charge at higher currents will charge at a slower rate if a phone charger is used, but there is the risk of overloading the charger and it getting very hot. Much depends upon the charger design. As you state, avoid cheap car converters as they can be risky. I personally would not wish to wreck my E4 internal charge management by using a charger that suddenly goes series short and applies >12V to the 5V input.

HOWEVER, the E4 is permitted to take a charge from a standard 500mA USB port without harm to the E4 or USB supply. Some charge management IC's can detect when they have reached the maximum current draw (voltage drop detection ?) and will work fine below that level.

I decided to play safe and use a correctly rated car charger. I recommend that you hunt down a reputable brand tablet charger that is rated the same of higher than the FLIR OEM unit. You are then safe and will get the E4 charged in the fastest possible time.

Aurora

[GARRETT64]

[/qOn mine I had to disconnect and hard reboot for the change to show up.... which meant I had to use the permanent file.  I had to use a win 8 PC.  After the Hard reboot I moved to a win XP PC)quote]

MY FIRST POST:

Hi my first post, I was looking for the Flir TG165 on the web and end here... fine forum anyway, 24 years ago I worked at the Tektronix factory
in the Netherlands adjusting scopes...

This topic is a long read btw, here is my question, to upgrade a Flir E4 tic do I realy need a Win 8 and maybe a Win XP PC? I have only a Win 7 pro PC...

Thanks, G. van der Veen

[Justanotherguy]

The FLIR E4 OEM charger is rated at a higher current than the everyday phone chargers. This is to enable faster charging at up to 2A rather than the more common phone rate of up to 800mA.

I bought some high current car chargers that were designed for a tablet as they tend to have higher rated chargers. I think mine were 2.5A.

Most devices that can fast charge at higher currents will charge at a slower rate if a phone charger is used, but there is the risk of overloading the charger and it getting very hot. Much depends upon the charger design. As you state, avoid cheap car converters as they can be risky. I personally would not wish to wreck my E4 internal charge management by using a charger that suddenly goes series short and applies >12V to the 5V input.

HOWEVER, the E4 is permitted to take a charge from a standard 500mA USB port without harm to the E4 or USB supply. Some charge management IC's can detect when they have reached the maximum current draw (voltage drop detection ?) and will work fine below that level.

I decided to play safe and use a correctly rated car charger. I recommend that you hunt down a reputable brand tablet charger that is rated the same of higher than the FLIR OEM unit. You are then safe and will get the E4 charged in the fastest possible time.

Aurora

The USB "charger" is missnamed, the USB port on your computer or the wall wart you plug into the wall socket is simply a power supply at 5V with a rating typically of 0.5A up to 2.1A.

Here is a really important bit,  THE CHARGE REGULATION IS DONE WITHIN THE DEVICE PLUGGED INTO THE POWER SUPPLY.  NOT IN THE POWER SUPPLY.
Read up about lithium battery charging requirements. Example of an implementation here: https://www.adafruit.com/products/259 

I'd be a rich man if I had  0.00001 penny everytime I see nonsense spouted about having to use the exact "usb charger" with xxx device.
No device should be designed relying on current regulation to be performed by the "usb charger" ( i.e. wall wart/USB port) .

I myself have become so fed up with all the USB wall warts for all my gadgets, we dont have enough space in the kitchen when we are trying to charge all our devices. I am making a 5V power supply brick with a bunch of USB sockets, I am fusing each port at 2.5A with a slow blow fuse, just incase a duff device goes short circuit.

[stefbeer]

[...] to upgrade a Flir E4 tic do I realy need a Win 8 and maybe a Win XP PC? I have only a Win 7 pro PC... [...]

Welcome aboard!

I did the hack (for a TIC wit firmware 1.19.8 ) with just a Windows 7 Professional (x86) machine and had (and still have) no issues. Some users had issues with Windows 7 and used a Windows XP machine, some users had issues with Windows 8 and used either a Windows 7 or XP machine. As far as I know there's no way to be certain but the best way is to follow the instructions (e.g. install the FLIR network driver before plugging in the camera or disable all other network adapters and security software (firewall,...) if you have issues).

[Fraser]

@justanotherguy,

If your comments were aimed at me....please read my message again.

I don't see anyone talking about the charger being the current regulator....as I have stated it is the charge management chip (in the E4) that dictates the current flow. Yep that's what I said, nothing about the charger. What I did say is to use a suitably rated charger for the job. A power supply not rated for the task will either perform poorly or overheat, depending upon design.

As for the term USB charger, it stems from history when any power supply for charging that plugged into a USB port was called a USB charger, simple as that. The correct terminology would likely be " a 5V d.c supply providing XXXXmA capabillity" But most prefer to just say, a USB charger. Me ? I don't care so long as people understand Voltage and Current ratings appropriate to the task.

Aurora

[janekivi]

No...
But what you think that noise is doing?
.caps.config.image.targetNoise.targetNoiseMk
There I have "measure tool" "line" with "graph", no other measurements.

Sorry about this mess here... This wasn't so much question and I knew the answer,
the sensor is too good but you must feel - this is #¤%&@£$€
This was only graphic illustration and follow-up to my noise value test.

And introduction to my next menu upgrade for advanced users
who have needs for better measurement tools.

[GARRETT64]

After a hour or so reading this topic, it is not always "easy" to move the E4 to a E8! are there any Dutch readers who have been successful?
Sometimes its handy to write in your own language.
Image : where I live...

Garrett

[FredB]

.......
And introduction to my next menu upgrade for advanced users
who have needs for better measurement tools.

?? 

[FredB]

After a hour or so reading this topic, it is not always "easy" to move the E4 to a E8! are there any Dutch readers who have been successful?
Sometimes its handy to write in your own language.
Image : where I live...

Garrett

Ik zond je een PM.

[ElectroEend]

RNDIS IP address issue.

First of all many thanks to all the guru's out here that did an awfull good job! I love my E4 Big Plus with hires and extra menu's.

I'm too having problems getting the E4 with 2.3 to behave like a good DHCP server. Beats me why.

I tried two PC's (W7 64bit) and both showed same issue. IP address given is wrong and starts with 169.254. There's also no Gateway or DNS address. You will also only see lots of bytes sent and zero bytes received.  No point in trying to communicate with the unit via virtual network.

I disabled everything on the PC (firewal, virus scanner, all other network interfaces, resident programs) but nothing changed. I resetted everything 10 times at least and plugged the E4 out & in a 100 times perhaps. I removed the E4's battery a few times.

I used Set_RNDIS_temporary.fif and the trick with pressing the right button when switching on the E4 (you get a black screen with backlight slightly visible).

A 'new' network adapter will pop up but always with strange IP address, no gateway or DNS address.

I was about to give up and rebooted the PC with the LAN attached, E4 still in RNDIS mode and everything else back to "normal".

As you guessed: for what ever reason I got a DHCP LAN connection that works (I'm typing this now) and a valid connection to the E4. Thus I started Filezilla and worked on the E4 without problems.

The only thing I changed was that I gave the interface (when it had a wrong IP address but could be managed) a fixed address of 192.168.0.1 and set the DNS and gateway to 192.168.0.2. When the virtual interface pops up again it'll remember the settings.

When I'm brave enough in the near future I'll try DHCP again for the virtual interface.  :-) for now I'm a happy camper.

Any suggestions for a more stable RNDIS connection are welcome.

BR, Donald

[DaveWB]

Going to update the YouTube video series with a how to for 2.3. Nice work janekivi and everyone else involved.
Maybe I did something wrong but does the 3 spot measurement work or any of the hotspot measurements?

[Bud]

As my reply #6302 suggests, it does work.

[DaveWB]

As my reply #6302 suggests, it does work.

Ahh totally missed that, odd mine just moves the crosshairs to the #1 spot. I will try removed the menu hack and re-applying.

[Bud]

Here is a free tip for E4 users. I think E4 has a potential design problem with the usb connector (I guess same sh!t with other Ex models). The cap that covers the connector is made from stiff rubber, so with the cap cover opened and USB cable attached, the cap pushes quite hard on the USB cable tale. I think this eventually may damage the microUSB connector on the camera. Until recently I used a piece of conductive foam stuck between the camera case and the rubber cap, as shown in the left screenshot. Now I bought a right angle USB cable and the problem was eliminated. It is also more convenient to have the cable running to the side rather than up from the camera - see the right screenshot.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

It's interesting that firmware version 1.22.0 is still online: http://cdn.cloud.flir.se/swdownload/assets/cameradownload/flir_ex_pn639_v1.22.0_update_pack.zip

Hi. That url isn't working for me. Could someone please upload (dropbox?) a copy of that fw update somewhere? And perhaps of other versions as well? Thank you!

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Additional information that i have not seen yet in this thread:

When camera is in RNDIS permanent mode, you can FTP to it even if it is turned off but is connected to USB. However the login  is not flir/3vlig. The login credentials in this case are:

user:   anonymous
psw:    NcFTP@

Once connected (i use WinSCP) you can browse the filesystem, make a backup of the Flash, transfer files 2-way. This may also help if you bricked your camera, if you know which files you want to replace.

Do not power the camera on, just plug the usb cable in to use this login.

It should be possible to even reflash the firmware in this mode (using FLIRInstallNet.exe) if the camera is bricked.

EDIT:
Kids don't try it at home. You have to know what you are doing.

The T559504$A.pdf, @ 1.3.3.4 says:

"CIFS
PC network file access service. This service makes it possible to map a drive letter on the PC to the camera file system. The appropriate client software is built into all relevant windows versions. By default, only the image folders are accessible in this way. To access the whole flash file system, mount the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/root$ drive. Use user name "flir" and password "3vlig"."

Does that work? I mean, for the whole flash file system?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

If someone had the files for the firmware "upgrade" to go from 1.11/1.12 to 1.8 (or 1.9 what ever it was) could one not do this and "upgrade" a 2.3.0 to the older firmware?

Anybody has got a copy of these files? Please?

[OrBy]

Here is a free tip for E4 users. I think E4 has a potential design problem with the usb connector (I guess same sh!t with other Ex models). The cap that covers the connector is made from stiff rubber, so with the cap cover opened and USB cable attached, the cap pushes quite hard on the USB cable tale. I think this eventually may damage the microUSB connector on the camera. Until recently I used a piece of conductive foam stuck between the camera case and the rubber cap, as shown in the left screenshot. Now I bought a right angle USB cable and the problem was eliminated. It is also more convenient to have the cable running to the side rather than up from the camera - see the right screenshot.

Aurora and I were talking about that around https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg356999/#msg356999. I never even unrapped the lead that came with the unit for that fact. There is also a 3d printable frame file floating around that props open the rubber flap but still allows access so it does not press on the lead.