Thermato imager on Kickstarter

[MLXXXp]

This campaign appeared on Kickstarter today:
Thermato—the most versatile thermal imager
What do you think of it?
Does it look like a viable project?
Is the price reasonable?
Any drawbacks to whatever technology they're using?
It's their first campaign. Do you think it has a chance of success?

[ArsenioDev]

That looks like a modified Guide PC210, res matches and there's not many cores that have that res in this class.

[MLXXXp]

That looks like a modified Guide PC210

Thanks. I think you're right.

I don't even know how much they're modifying it. Their description is pretty much the same at the Guide PC210.

[Fraser]

I would recommend that you purchase a camera that is already in production from one of the several players in this market segment.

Look at the similar products from Infiray, UNI-T and Guide Sensmart. They are available ,now, have been tested on this forum and are good value for money. I see nothing in that Kickstarter that would encourage me to risk my money on it. The stated specifications is now common in budget cameras that use the Infiray and Guide Sensmart imaging cores.

What also caught my eye was something odd in the stated specifications.... it claims to have a resolution of 256 x 192 (49152 pixels) yet offers only 19200 measurement pixels. 19200 pixels is 160 x 120 pixel resolution. Did they originally use a 160 x 120 pixel core and then moved to a 256 x 192 pixel core and failed to update the measurement specification ?

Fraser

[MLXXXp]

it claims to have a resolution of 256 x 192 (49152 pixels) yet offers only 19200 measurement pixels.

True, the specs in the images state "19200 Temperature Measurements" but the text below those images is:
"It is all thanks to the 256*192 resolution detection, every image is made up of 49152 pixels."

[DaneLaw]

But it's quite a strong price, if it truly was a rebranded PC210.. it's almost like 50% of what a PC210 costs in Europe.
I don't know how Kickstarter operates when it comes to EU and VAT / Tax (never purchased/backed a product on Kickstarter) but I would guess, you would be taxed to the moon & back- if you backed such a product, and when it arrived to EU.?


Hence the 19.200 pixels..
Thermato gives some diffuse explanation in the comments.

Under the point "High Resolution, Clearer, And More Details" you state:

"It is all thanks to the 256*192 resolution detection, every image is made up of 49152 pixels."
But under point "Multiple Measurement Points" it says:
"Compared with the spot thermometers’ single measurement point, Thermato can measure 19200 points’ temperature simultaneously."
So, which is correct, 49152 or 19200?
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ThermatoCreator
1 day ago
Hi Scott, thanks for reminding. It should be 19200. We will change the number. Thanks a lot.
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Scott Allen
1 day ago
If the sensor is 256 pixels x 192 pixels that would be 49152 total pixels, so why can you only measure 19200?
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ThermatoCreator
about 24 hours ago
To match the screen resolution. The Detection resolution is 256*192 too. So the number of pixels on the screen is 49152. But the detection can detect 19200 points' temperature at the same time.
Since the pixels are too small to see.
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Scott Allen
about 24 hours ago
I don't understand your answer. How many actual microbolometer elements (pixels) are in the sensor itself and how are they arranged (width and height)?
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ThermatoCreator
about 23 hours ago
The sensor has 49152 pixels. And the number of measurement points is 19200.
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Scott Allen
about 22 hours ago
I don't understand how that works. With 49152 pixels and 19200 measurement points, there would be 2.56 pixels for each measurement point. Could you please provide and update with a diagram explaining it?
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ThermatoCreator
about 17 hours ago
For example, an Iphone's camera is a 12MP camera. And the phone's screen resolution is 2531*1170, so it should display 2962440 pixels on the screen. But the image is made by the 12mp camera sensor which should be 12 million pixels. But It will do equal scaling to suit the screen display.

And now we talk about the Thermato. The sensor has 49152 pixels. it will do the same job to suit the screen as the phone's camera. So the measurement points are based on the number of pixels scaled down.
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Scott Allen
about 10 hours ago
So when you cast to a PC screen will it show all 49152 pixels that the sensor has?
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Scott Allen
2 days ago
The description talks about a "camera" mode. Is there regular visible light camera included along with the thermal sensor? If so, what is its resolution (and any other specs.)?
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ThermatoCreator
1 day ago
Hi Scott. Yes, the Camera Mode is a regular visible light camera. All the resolution is the same, 256*192.

[Vipitis]

I have never seen it this way around. A lot of products, mainly monoculars always state something like 1024x800 resolution while meaning the display for the EVF yet the detector is 384x288. They seem to mean it the opposite way around. Where their field a really low resolution LCD to the back of the camera and think of all those display pixels(never heard of subpixels perhaps) as data points for you eye(?).

the visible light camera being the exact same resolution sounds extremely sketchy. Not impossible. But almost as if they don't know or won't tell.

Their whole sales pitch is "for beginners" so technical Details might not matter.

[DaneLaw]

On the GuideSense PC210/230 that does seem to deliver a cleaner picture than other 256x192 handhelds.. like fx Uni-t 260B..
If it's down to GuideIR's so-called SharpAi algorithm.. I dont know.."Guide's SharpAi" does various optimization on the fly - such as defogging, sharpening, contrast enhancement, and lossless magnification to enhance clarity.....
GuideSense units like PC210 are also using an edge-detection algorithm that looks a lot like Flir's MSX-variant and seems just as potent from the looks of it..I reckon GuideSense is calling it MIF mode.

So if your suddenly are seeing rebranded variants of fx Guide PC210(230 handhelds, it can be quite a con if these features are not implemented on third-party rebranded units, and only reserved for in-house GuideSense-units..

[MLXXXp]

I have never seen it this way around.

Well, after I pointed out that they were wasting expensive sensor pixels by down-sizing for a lower resolution display, their "tech team" apparently came to their senses (pun intended) and have decided to change to a 256x192 display to match the sensor.

However, if the sensor really is 256x192, it makes me wonder how they can sell it for half the price of any equivalent resolution device I can find on the market.

It's likely I'll cancel my pledge before the deadline.

[MLXXXp]

In case anyone cares, this campaign was suspended by Kickstarter shortly before it was due to end.

[Fraser]

I cannot say that I am surprised….. the whole campaign appeared “flaky”