Year 2013 Oscilloscope Choices...

[Hydrawerk]

So do you know in which scope of the 5 you can disable it?

You can disable it on all 5 models. But what kind of interpolation each DSO uses - and how well they do it - is a whole different matter.

On my DSOX2002A you cannot switch off the interpolation...  Well, Agilent is like Apple Iphone, you cannot set a lot of parameters. Even the memory size is fixed, but why not. Vectors are always on. No possibility to switch to dots. But the scope is very easy to use, just like an Apple product. (Well, I am not an Apple fan and I have never bought any their product.)

[hgg]

If it's just for posing then I guess the best scope is the one with the most features.

Definitely not for posing...  Especially in that price range...   
I just want buy to one with the best feature set, because in the future I might use some of the features.

Not yet, but like others have said, you should not base your buying decision on that feature
alone anyway, which is most probably optimistic at best.

Ok, I get it.    wfrm/s not so important... 

With the exception of the Rigol maybe, I don't think you find a scope without firmware issues in this price range.

What about the Siglent?  It looks like it has the same firmware like the Rigol, better screen and its faster
too.

[Wuerstchenhund]

What about the Siglent?  It looks like it has the same firmware like the Rigol, better screen and its faster
too.

The Siglent has certainly not the same firmware as the Rigol (albeit they may look pretty similar), both are different scopes from different manufacturers. The Rigol is longer on the market and thus should be more mature, both in hardware and in software.

I guess if I was forced (literally, like with a gun to my head) to decide between the scopes you list then I'd either go for the Rigol (if maturity is the most important feature) or the Siglent (if you buy from a seller that offers a real warranty and if you're prepared to be patient for firmware fixes). Based on what I've seen on other Siglent kit (I have a Siglent AWG and have seen the LeCroy rebadges of Siglent scopes and AWGs) the hardware quality should be quite good for that price. It also looks like Siglent is starting to address the support issues, and hopefully does so with their quality control.

At the end of the day, your money only buys you a cheap low end China scope, not a high end test instrument. This means you will have to live with some limitations and quirks anyways, and I'm pretty sure after some time you will want to upgrade to a better scope. But both the Rigol and the Siglent should serve fine as a starter scope.

[hgg]

Wuerstchenhund thank you for expressing a definite opinion.

I am starting to narrow down my options and I think that I will not be buying the Hantek because
it does not inspire confidence to me.  The UNI-T is over my budget range.  I thought I could find
it for less than 400 euros shipped to Greece.  The second reason being that it is new and nobody
knows yet anything about it.  I have a hunch though that it might actually be a great oscilloscope
for the price.  The two reasons that the Rigol gets out of the competition are its small screen and
its noisy fan.  (I am not sure if I will receive one with that problem fixed)

So my options are narrowed down between the Siglent and the Owon.
It looks like that the Siglent is a quality scope with a nice firmware.  I will buy it from the USA and
I will also have a 3 year warranty.  The Owon has a lan port a 330 euros price, 3 year warranty
and with the return shipping cost paid by them.

I've seen some videos with failed Owons and I am not sure that the quality control is that good...
I think that Marmad said something about the Owon being slow in some feature but I did not
understand why.

Marmad is it possible to explain?

Siglent might be my first scope.  Not sure if I am making the right decision.
Any final thoughts?

Thanks!

[marmad]

I think that Marmad said something about the Owon being slow in some feature but I did not
understand why.

Marmad is it possible to explain?

Owon optimized the routines for acquisition (waveform update rate) for 10M sample lengths - so it doesn't get (much) faster rates when you use small amounts of memory (as do most DSOs).

Siglent might be my first scope.  Not sure if I am making the right decision.
Any final thoughts?

As both tinhead and I already said, before you buy a Siglent (especially from the USA), you should communicate with rf-loop - a long-standing member here who sells and repairs them (and Owon) in the EU.  I don't know his prices, but he's a fair, smart guy who will tell you the good and bad points honestly - without trying to sell you something.

[hgg]

Owon optimized the routines for acquisition (waveform update rate) for 10M sample lengths - so it doesn't get (much) faster rates when you use small amounts of memory (as do most DSOs).

I see.  Thanks!

As both tinhead and I already said, before you buy a Siglent (especially from the USA), you should communicate with rf-loop - a long-standing member here who sells and repairs them (and Owon) in the EU.  I don't know his prices, but he's a fair, smart guy who will tell you the good and bad points honestly - without trying to sell you something.

I forgot about that!  I will contact him and ask him for a price quote.

[cwalex]

The owon had an option for a battery and it doesn't look too expensive. That could be an advantage when you are unsure of grounding your scope or making mistakes while grounding the scope, running on battery could save some disasters. I don't know if anyone mentioned that already so I thought I would

[EEVblog]

The owon had an option for a battery and it doesn't look too expensive. That could be an advantage when you are unsure of grounding your scope or making mistakes while grounding the scope, running on battery could save some disasters.

If you are unsure about scope grounding, then a battery powered scope like this, without properly designed isolated jacks or probes, can be just as potentially dangerous.

[cwalex]

The owon had an option for a battery and it doesn't look too expensive. That could be an advantage when you are unsure of grounding your scope or making mistakes while grounding the scope, running on battery could save some disasters.

If you are unsure about scope grounding, then a battery powered scope like this, without properly designed isolated jacks or probes, can be just as potentially dangerous.

I'm just about to embarras myself by showing my ignorance but would running your scope from battery (while unplugged from mains/charger) not be similar to running your scope from an isolation transformer? In other words because it isn't connected to mains earth, attaching scope gnd to say a positive supply on DUT would just shift the scope measurement to that potential as a gnd reference and your probe would show you the difference in potential from the point you attach the gnd to the point you probe the circuit.

I'm gleaning all the knowledge I have on this subject from this forum so I could easily got it waaaay wrong at some crucial point. Luckily I haven't blown up my scope yet, probably cos I hardly use it 

[Lightages]

The safe thing to do is keep the scope on a normal grounded power  connection and use the isolation transformer on the device under test. If you can't use an isolation transformer on the device then you need a differential probe or a double insulated hand held scope.

[cwalex]

The safe thing to do is keep the scope on a normal grounded power  connection and use the isolation transformer on the device under test. If you can't use an isolation transformer on the device then you need a differential probe or a double insulated hand held scope.

OH, I think I get what dave was saying now. If the DSO isn't made with safety in mind and you gnd your DSO to 300V on DUT then you can easily be hurt from exposed BNC connectors etc as they will be at 300V and can earth through YOU! as opposed to properly isolated handheld DSO with plastic BNC and basically built to be safe (for the user). So the battery operation in the OWON may save your DSO from damage at the expense of user safety. In other words, just ignore what I said about the whole battery thing! unless you just want the option of using the scope away from a power point from time to time.

[pickle9000]

It's amazing from the TDS 210 (mid 90's) for just under a thousand bucks (that's 60 mhz no fft and so on) to 100 mhz for under 500, with fft, colour and so on. I got one of the 210's and it was great now you get more for 500 bucks and just over a thousand will do even more.

I have no complaints about the new class of low end scopes, with a little luck and a few years they will be much better. If nothing else they are more accessible because of the price point alone.

[Wytnucls]

For what it's worth, I heard back from UNI-T in Shanghai. The advertised acquisition rate of 150,000 waveforms per second for the UTD2102CM  is not a misprint. I don't have any information as to under what conditions this is achieved.

Here are a few more scope screenshots:
http://www.pinsonne-elektronik.de/pi1/pd125.html

[hgg]

OH, I think I get what dave was saying now. If the DSO isn't made with safety in mind and you gnd your DSO to 300V on DUT then you can easily be hurt from exposed BNC connectors etc as they will be at 300V and can earth through YOU! as opposed to properly isolated handheld DSO with plastic BNC and basically built to be safe (for the user). So the battery operation in the OWON may save your DSO from damage at the expense of user safety. In other words, just ignore what I said about the whole battery thing! unless you just want the option of using the scope away from a power point from time to time.

Nice to know, but in the beginning I will play with low dc voltage signals, although later I would
like to look at some UPS circuits.

Wytnucls Thank you very much for the information!

Can somebody explain the following... :
!! DC BIAS Spannung einstellbar !!  Damit kann man AC Signal mit (hohen) DC Spannungsanteil
mit DC Kopplung genau anschauen. Dies ist ein großer Vorteil insbesondere bei Signalerfassung mit Norm-
und Single Trigger !!
(z.B. zyklische oder sporadische Störungsmessung auf Betriebsspannungen, Einschaltvorgänge;
Sie können mit Kanal DC-Kopplung und 10:1 Teilung mit 20mV/DIV Auflösung messen, bei einen
DC Spannungsanteil bis zu 20V und AC Störungen, Spannungsschwankungen Einbrüche sehr genau
analysieren )
 
It looks like it does not have a vertical zoom control, but there is a button right next to the multipurpose
knob labelled Coarse.  Does anybody know what could this be for?

The software looks though nicely designed, at least from the outside...


Getting closer..  Owon is finally out of the competition because I think its like a relatively nice car but
with a very bad driver...

Final options are the Siglent and the Uni-T (If I can find it at my maximum of 400 euros price)
Strangely enough one online store lists the White version of the UNI-T 100 euros more than
the black!

Black version : http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=123970;GROUPID=4044;PROVID=2382;&utm_source=Preisvergleich&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Preisvergleich_shopping.com/;SID=10UXfh338AAAIAAAIfS7Y6fdb97920862956a66d42d1456a2e310

White version: http://www.reichelt.de/Oscilloscopes-Spectrum-Analyser/UTD-2102-CM-W/3/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=3;ARTICLE=123971;GROUPID=5898

[casper.bang]

Wow hgg, those are pretty amazing prices for those of us close to the Germanic region of Europe. 399€ for 7" 800x480 screen, 16mpts memory and 150000 wfms/s has me quite interested too!

[hgg]

Hello casper.bang,
indeed that price is very nice indeed.  I will have to decide between the Uni-T and the Siglent.

---> rf-loop hello  , I am not sure if you received a private message I've send you.
If you haven't, please tell me so I can send it again.  Thanks.

[marmad]

For what it's worth, I heard back from UNI-T in Shanghai. The advertised acquisition rate of 150,000 waveforms per second for the UTD2102CM  is not a misprint. I don't have any information as to under what conditions this is achieved.

It's worth absolutely nothing... for all the reasons I've outlined before. Just because you hear back from them is meaningless.

Anybody who wants to believe this unqualified, unverified, and undocumented claim about a fast update rate which produces no intensity grading are the perfect customers for UNI-T.

Here are a few more scope screenshots:
http://www.pinsonne-elektronik.de/pi1/pd125.html

I see an ugly-looking DSO with bad screen design (layout, use of space, etc). What do you see?

[hgg]

Marmad I see the same things about the screen design etc, but until someone actually measures
the wfrm/s we cannot say that its not true.  I have already heard from some users that the scope is
actually extremely fast.  Even if the 150.000 is not true, it will definitely not be something like 6.000

[casper.bang]

I see an ugly-looking DSO with bad screen design (layout, use of space, etc). What do you see?

Compared to the Rigol 1052E; I see a decent looking scope with bigger screen, more real-estate area for statistics and menu, nice looking buttons, single-shot button, much longer memory and basically the same or better capture specs. I am surprised you find it ugly, given your review of the Owon which is full of hard plastic buttons over and under the screen, with a UI that looks like a Nintendo console from the 90's. My main concern from the picture is the small 60mm grille hinting at a fan just as noisy as the 1052E (hopefully not).

[marmad]

Marmad I see the same things about the screen design etc, but until someone actually measures
the wfrm/s we cannot say that its not true.  I have already heard from some users that the scope is
actually extremely fast.  Even if the 150.000 is not true, it will definitely not be something like 6.000

@hgg: Look, whatever you want to think is fine. But as I mentioned before, the undocumented specification is meaningless - and I've had experience with 'incorrect' specs from Chinese manufacturers before. If some third-party actually does prove that it's wrong, UNI-T will just respond with some gobbledegoo. Just search the threads here for 'misinformation' from UNI-T; there is at least one about their incorrect CAT ratings on their multimeters. Personally, of the list of DSOs you mentioned, the last one in the list I would buy would be the UNI-T.

[marmad]

I see an ugly-looking DSO with bad screen design (layout, use of space, etc). What do you see?

Compared to the Rigol 1052E; I see a decent looking scope with bigger screen, more real-estate area for statistics and menu, nice looking buttons, single-shot button, much longer memory and basically the same or better capture specs. I am surprised you find it ugly, given your review of the Owon which is full of hard plastic buttons over and under the screen, with a UI that looks like a Nintendo console from the 90's. My main concern from the picture is the small 60mm grille hinting at a fan just as noisy as the 1052E (hopefully not).

Well, considering the Rigol DS1000 series design is now 7-years old, better to compare the UNI-T's current design to Rigol's current design and... well, it's clear UNI-T is really out-of-date.

And compared to the Owon? In terms of industrial design, it's not even close: the Owon is much nicer - sleek, thinline design that looks and feels solid and modern. And the Owon uses 760x500 pixels for waveform display compared to a 600x400 on the UNI-T.  Granted the Owon's UI is ugly - but so is UNI-T's. But between the two, I'd still buy the Owon - which has been torn-apart, tested, and examined by dozens of independent users - and get the community support, VGA out, larger screen, and battery option - instead of opting for UNI-T's untested and unexamined  internals - lack of user-base - and it's fantasy wfrm/s rate. But hey, that's just me. 

[hgg]

Marmad, you might be right.
(I hope you are not, because then you can buy a great scope with just 400 euros)
If you see the specifications that Uni-T lists in their website are very poor indeed.
They don't write a lot of things, just the basics.
I have bought the UNI-T UT61E and for the price its simply an unbeatable multimeter.
Maybe they did the same with the oscilloscope.  May be they didn't.  The fact is that
we don't actually know.  We can only speculate.  You say that because in a previous
product they gave wrong information then this would be the rule for all the products.

But between the two, I'd still buy the Owon - which has been torn-apart, tested, and examined by dozens of independent users - and get the community support, VGA out, larger screen, and battery option - instead of opting for UNI-T's untested and unexamined  internals - lack of user-base

I agree.

Code: [Select]

the Owon is much nicer - sleek, thinline design Maybe that is why they are having the ground noise problem, when they packed the
power supply and fan so close together...

[marmad]

I have bought the UNI-T UT61E and for the price its simply an unbeatable multimeter.
Maybe they did the same with the oscilloscope.  May be they didn't.  The fact is that
we don't actually know.  We can only speculate.  You say that because in a previous
product they gave wrong information then this would be the rule for all the products.

Not necessarily the rule - but it's enough to cause me to be skeptical.

When I had the Rigol, Owon, and Hantek DSOs, I either paid a bit more so that I could return them if I wanted to - or (in the case of the Hantek) borrowed it for testing. If I was thinking of buying the Siglent or UNI-T now, I would make sure to do the same thing, because IMO, it's better to spend a bit more and feel secure that you can return it (and it's better for warranty service as well) then to try to save every last penny on something you have to live/work with for years to come.

[hgg]

I agree, that's why I haven't already bought the Uni-T.

I've contacted rf-loop but he doesn't seem to get my p.m.
Do you happen to have his personal email?

[marmad]

I agree, that's why I haven't already bought the Uni-T.

I've contacted rf-loop but he doesn't seem to get my p.m.
Do you happen to have his personal email?

No, but maybe you can reach him via his Siglent forum.