Year 2013 Oscilloscope Choices...

[Robomeds]

First post so I will start with the obligatory yet also deserved nod of the hat to Dave.  His various videos have been my entertainment over the past few days as I've waited for laser cutters to do their things... though I actually noticed his Youtube stuff long before that. 

So recently I decided to try to find a new o-scope... and it is 2013 so this seems the right thread in which to ask.  Since my budget was really tight ($300) I was looked around on the usual places.  I've also been looking at the various reviews and this site has proven to be VERY useful with regards to detailing the differences between the scopes.  Anyway, in the end I bought a LeCroy Waveace 1001.  Now before anyone dashes my dreams of owning a scope from the big brands, yes, it's a Siglent with a different box.  That said, it's configuration is a bit different than the Attens and Siglents normally found sound of say $350.  It's got the 1Gs/s sample rate and the 2Mpt memory of the "higher end" Attens/Siglent models but the compromise is the 40 Mhz front end.  As with the Rigol and the Tekway/Hantek I assume this is probably only a software limit.  Thus does anyone know if this scope family has been... um... enhanced by amateurs the way the Rigol and Hanteks were?

Thanks so much!

[Wuerstchenhund]

Anyway, in the end I bought a LeCroy Waveace 1001.  Now before anyone dashes my dreams of owning a scope from the big brands, yes, it's a Siglent with a different box.  That said, it's configuration is a bit different than the Attens and Siglents normally found sound of say $350.

I hope you didn't pay too much for it. The 70MHz Siglent original (the WaveAce 1000 Series are Siglent SDS1000CML scopes) can be bought for roughly $390 with shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siglent-SDS1072CML-Oscilloscope-70MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-2Mpts-Memory-/160931280364?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item25784075ec

You can apparently even flash the LeCroy firmware on these scopes. The only thing you'd have to do yourself would be to paint it black ,-)

It's got the 1Gs/s sample rate and the 2Mpt memory of the "higher end" Attens/Siglent models but the compromise is the 40 Mhz front end.  As with the Rigol and the Tekway/Hantek I assume this is probably only a software limit.  Thus does anyone know if this scope family has been... um... enhanced by amateurs the way the Rigol and Hanteks were?

I'm not aware of any hacks for these scopes. I'd guess at least the 40/70/100MHz variants are the same, though, but you never know.

[Robomeds]

No, I was under $300 for this one.  I spent a lot of time trolling ebay and other places looking around.  Near $400 offered some nicer options including the Hanteks (hackable and high resolution screens).  But at the $300 and under range it seemed my options were very limited.  I don't think the 40mhz limit is going to really mess with any of the work I would likely do.  Rarely have I needed anything that fast in the past hence I wasn't too worried about the 40 mhz limit.  However, knowing that it was likely just a software switch away from 100 mhz doesn't mean I'm not tempted to see if an upgrade is possible. 

[jebcom]

Near $400 offered some nicer options including the Hanteks (hackable and high resolution screens).  But at the $300 and under range it seemed my options were very limited.  I don't think the 40mhz limit is going to really mess with any of the work I would likely do.

Congratulations on getting your scope. I think you'll be very happy with it.

But just for the record, for other readers, a new Hantek 70 MHz is available for US$280 delivered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hantek-DSO5072P-Digital-Oscilloscope-70MHz-1Gs-2CH-7-TFT-WVGA-800x480-/121089632989?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item1c31812add

[Robomeds]

I was thinking about that model but the P model doesn't have the deep memory.  The hack thread suggested the 70 Mhz model can be upgraded to 200.  I like that the Hantek has the 800x480 screen as well.  I'm typically a resolution junky.  But now we get back into the tradeoffs.  The P model scope you linked to is basically the same price I paid.  Both scopes have their pros and cons.  Really given my price point it was hard to decide what to get yet I also don't have a specific need other than "mechatronics" projects so it's hard to know that I'm better off with the higher bandwidth vs the extra memory.  Most of the work I've done with scopes over the years has been glitch or digital signal sorts of captures, not repetitive wave forms so I guessed the extra memory would be the way to go.  When I was learning mechatronics we were using mid 90s HP digital scopes, 60mhz, very limited memory.  Since I'm looking at doing that sort of stuff as a hobby again those are my benchmark for performance.  Well most of these scopes exceed the old HPs in many ways so it's a bit hard to guess which way is going to be the important one for me.

To some extent I'm hoping that a Rigol like hack comes around as I rather expect the 40 mhz scope has the same guts as a 100mhz model.  I'm not 100% certain I made the best choice but I don't think it will really be worse than the other potential choices at this price point.  I did think about upping the ticket but I really can't do that given this is pure hobby work. 

Incidentally that doesn't stop at this price point.  The lab where I work has an HP 6000 series scope.  I love the XGA screen but not the 7" size... or HP's interface.  Then again I don't use it that much. 

Off topic but one more thanks to Dave, I just watched his history of test gear via AE magazine.  I finally figured out that my B&K 5360 multimeter is actually a Metrix MX58HD.  All sorts of fun info around here

[Hydrawerk]

Well, I would never buy this LeCroy WaveAce 1001, but it is still much more feature rich than old Tektronix TDS1000 or TBS1000. http://www.tek.com/datasheet/oscilloscope/tbs1000-digital-storage-oscilloscope-digital-storage-oscilloscopes
The TBS1000 is a high quality product, but too obsolete technology from 1996... Small screen and 2500 points per channel... 

[Robomeds]

Other than the 40mhz bandwidth (Hoping for a hack since i suspect this is a software limit) which I'm not sure is going to be an issue for my uses, what other issues would you see with this scope.  At sub $300 it certainly seems you can't be picky.  Really, even at the $500 limit which seems to cover most of the low cost meters it still seems you have a trade off.  My impression is Rigol is a known thing but has the smallest and lowest resolution screen.  Hantek/Tekway etc have better screens but limited connectivity and slow refresh rates when using lots of memory. The poor screen visibility from above does mater to me since right now I don't expect the thing to live on a shelf.  The Hanteks were actually my backup plan. 

The Uni-Ts seem to have little information but people don't seem fond of them. 

Siglent (Atten, LeCroy) seemed to have had a number of software glitches but the latest information I found suggests they have been fixed.  The screen resolution isn't great but from what I could find it seemed like, compared to the Rigol, the systems had similar performance except the Rigol, historically, had better firmware.  I didn't see that the Rigol was better in use. 

I also really liked the Owon but the very slow screen refresh rate bothered me.  I really liked the large SVGA screen.  I might have picked it as first out of the group if cost was no object. 

BTW, I also was considering holding out for an HP 5462x series scope.  I saw one go for $240 without probes on ebay.  I don't like the extra size of the older CTR display but I did like the idea of a 350k wf/s refresh rate.  The memory size was good but the 200 Ms/s seemed slow for a 100 mhz scope.  It didn't include probes. 

Really, at my price point the question is what do you want to compromise in a field of compromised choices. 

[hgg]

Ok, I finally bought the 100Mhz Siglent SDS1102CML.   

366 Euros shipped to Greece from Germany.
Let's hope I did not make a mistake.

I will take some photos and videos when it arrives.

What tests can I do to check that the unit I receive its not a lemon?
What about measuring accuracy, noise etc?

Thanks.

[EasyDoor]

Sorry for storming into a thread, but i have a  question about displays and creating a new thread to topic related so closely to yours is pointless... so here it goes

Will the resolution of a scope's display adjust itself to match the external monitor? (will it get better?)

For example, could a scope with a lesser quality of built-in display (lower resolution, smaller dimensions of  screen) have the same quality/resolution compared to a scope with superior (larger, better) display when BOTH connected to same external (PC) monitor

I noticed that scopes with larger screen tend to cost more, and as I have a few spare LCD monitors laying around and I do not do   terrain/mobile work (will use it 90% of the time in my workshop) it would narrow my choice of a scope a lot!

Buying smaller- cheaper (or even same price but better performance, bandwidth etc. and exchanging the price difference for a smaller display) and plugging it into external LCD monitor sounds like a great idea- that is, if someone can confirm that picture indeed gets better when displayed on a larger resolution screen

please respond!   

[casper.bang]

Ok, I finally bought the 100Mhz Siglent SDS1102CML.   

Awesome hgg, that's also the one I have narrowed in on (chose to get Agilent E3610A PSU + U1272A DMM combo first though). Good luck with it and please keep us posted!

[Wuerstchenhund]

Sorry for storming into a thread, but i have a  question about displays and creating a new thread to topic related so closely to yours is pointless

You should have opened a new thread, as your question has nothing to do with the scopes discussed in this thread (none of them have an external monitor output), and hijacking threads is considered rude by many.

Will the resolution of a scope's display adjust itself to match the external monitor? (will it get better?)

For example, could a scope with a lesser quality of built-in display (lower resolution, smaller dimensions of  screen) have the same quality/resolution compared to a scope with superior (larger, better) display when BOTH connected to same external (PC) monitor

This depends on the scopes, but for lower end models the answer is usually "no", as the external output directly mirrors the internal display.

It's a bit different with midrange and highend scopes that run Windows, as these usually are able to display different resolutions on the external port, and many even support multi-monitor mode.

[hgg]

Awesome hgg, that's also the one I have narrowed in on (chose to get Agilent E3610A PSU + U1272A DMM combo first though). Good luck with it and please keep us posted!

I will indeed !   
Can't wait...

p.s. quite an expensive combo!
       I am looking for a P.S. as well and I think I will get the Korad.
       http://www.ebay.com/itm/110888868115
       I will have to research for that further though.

[Donziboy2]

Sorry for storming into a thread, but i have a  question about displays and creating a new thread to topic related so closely to yours is pointless

You should have opened a new thread, as your question has nothing to do with the scopes discussed in this thread (none of them have an external monitor output), and hijacking threads is considered rude by many.

The OWON SDS7102 has VGA out, and some of them have Scope to PC software to display waveforms on the PC.

[Wuerstchenhund]

some of them have Scope to PC software to display waveforms on the PC.

Like any other Windows program the PC software does not limit the max resolution you can use on your PC, which has nothing to do with the resolution of a scope's display or what resolution is available on a scope's external monitor output.

[iloveelectronics]

Even though the OP of the thread has already made his decision and got the scope he wants I thought I would link to this video I found by accident that features the Uni-T UTD2102CM.



You can jump right to about 2:49 to see the scope. It isn't exactly a demo video but at least you will have a good look at the actual thing. The presenter mentions its 150k wfms/s capture rate and he seems very happy about it for the work he does.

[Bored@Work]

You can jump right to about 2:49 to see the scope. It isn't exactly a demo video but at least you will have a good look at the actual thing. The presenter mentions its 150k wfms/s capture rate and he seems very happy about it for the work he does.

Smells like a fake unboxing. He claims "it is really good", while he hasn't even finished unpacking it. Typical rubbish video by someone who needs to confirm to himself what a smart buyer he is.

[marmad]

The presenter mentions its 150k wfms/s capture rate and he seems very happy about it for the work he does.

Yes, he mentions the 150k wfrm/s that Uni-T claims in their specs. But I haven't seen a single shred of evidence yet to confirm it; there is no YouTube video demonstrating this (for the price class) incredibly high rate.

BTW, he also mentions that most other DSOs in this price class have 1500-3000 wfrm/s - which is not correct.

[tinhead]

  Hantek Aoto probe??? that must be chinese Auto

[Hydrawerk]

http://youtu.be/94-SYCJ0QsE Well, why is the screen glossy as a mirror? I haven't noticed it even at Rigol, Siglent or any scope... 
And here he is using the scope.

[marmad]

Clearly the Uni-T is not doing any intensity grading - which means all waveform information is just being conveyed by on/off pixels at whatever the refresh rate of the LCD is.

Also, there is a long close-up of 2us/div (when he's looking at an 11% duty 94kHz square wave) and when I compare it to a similar waveform displayed on the Rigol DS2000 at that scale (which does 5k wfrm/s then), perhaps it's just the intensity grading, but the rendition of the waveform seems to be at a much faster rate than the Uni-T.

[Hydrawerk]

Well, if UTD2102CM was a bang per buck scope, they would sell it in Czech Republic... There is an Unitrend distributor. And there are still no better reviews of UTD2102CM. Although it looks better than Rigol DS1000, it's probably not true...

[iloveelectronics]

Smells like a fake unboxing. He claims "it is really good", while he hasn't even finished unpacking it. Typical rubbish video by someone who needs to confirm to himself what a smart buyer he is.

It's not a live unboxing. He mentions in the earlier part of the video that he has been using it for a couple of weeks or something.

In any case, I'm not trying to say anything good or bad about this scope, just thought I would share a video that I found accidentally that features this scope. It doesn't seem like there's much information about it on the internet at all.

[Hydrawerk]

Even the UNI-T manufacturer didn't make any video probably. 

[hgg]

It looks like I made a mistake....buying the Siglent after all....   

Although the videos were not about the oscilloscope, I could see that it has a better screen although
it looks like that you cannot switch off the right and bottom menus off.  The build quality looks ok as
well.  Since he was working with transients and he was happy with the scope its definitely faster
than 2000wfms/s.  Maybe not as good as the Rigol but for the price definitely better than the Siglent.

I also liked that you can easily select which measurements you want to see in the bottom of the
screen.  I haven't found yet how to do that on the Siglent.  You can only adjust the 5 values displayed
on the right.  If you press the default setup button, it will display some values like the UNI-T but they
will disappear if you change any other setting.

[marmad]

Since he was working with transients and he was happy with the scope its definitely faster than 2000wfms/s.

How does this compute?