Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.  (Read 345688 times)

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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1175 on: August 01, 2024, 05:12:05 pm »
Hello,

KungFuJosh thanks.

Bad_Driver and other owners of the SDS2104X HD.
could you please post your results anyway. Then we would get an impression of how the individual devices scatter.

Stdev
(four channels, 1ms/div, 1GS/s, 10MPts, 50 Ω):

20MHz BW
1mv/div
1V/div

FULL BW
1mv/div
1V/div   

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1176 on: August 01, 2024, 05:19:55 pm »
I repeat the measurement tomorrow.
Now I have a glas of wine with my wife in the garden and be grateful for all your help!
 
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Online Grandchuck

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1177 on: August 01, 2024, 06:46:41 pm »
Hello egonotto.  My 2204X HD
 
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Online gburdzin

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1178 on: August 01, 2024, 06:56:07 pm »
Here are mine:
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1179 on: August 01, 2024, 09:32:50 pm »
Do you by any chance have DVM meter on?
More specifically enabled DVM, pointing to CH1 and AutoRange ON in settings?  8)

Yes! That‘s it! Everything is now ok! And this explains all! Thanks to all who helped me with ideas and advice!

I wonder why the DVM was active after 2 factory resets and one firmware flash.
What can be useful in some cases is setting a User Default or even recalling your preferred Setup.
Save/Recall menu is where you can do either of these.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1180 on: August 02, 2024, 08:53:52 am »
Here my measurements. It is worth mentioning that in my lab under the roof the temperature is 26 degrees.

Full bandwidth means 100 MHz since I have the SDS2104X HD.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 12:13:23 pm by Bad_Driver »
 
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1181 on: August 02, 2024, 09:20:55 am »
There were some questions regarding the frequency counter. I checked it with my GPSDO. See attached.
 
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1182 on: August 02, 2024, 11:52:35 am »
Hello,

thanks to all of you.

@Bad_Driver: I understand that temperatures as cold as 26 Grad C in summer are not nice. I have a pleasant 28.8 Grad C :) You posted "Noise 50ohms Full 1V" twice and "Noise 50ohms Full 1mV" is missing.

After Wacken I will make an Excel file with the results.


Best regards
egonotto
P.S. The use of the Character for Grad makes a comment impossible.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 12:02:05 pm by egonotto »
 

Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1183 on: August 02, 2024, 12:14:17 pm »
Hello,

thanks to all of you.

@Bad_Driver: I understand that temperatures as cold as 26 Grad C in summer are not nice. I have a pleasant 28.8 Grad C :) You posted "Noise 50ohms Full 1V" twice and "Noise 50ohms Full 1mV" is missing.

After Wacken I will make an Excel file with the results.


Best regards
egonotto
P.S. The use of the Character for Grad makes a comment impossible.

fixed! And enjoy Wacken!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 12:22:36 pm by Bad_Driver »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1184 on: August 02, 2024, 03:38:05 pm »
There were some questions regarding the frequency counter. I checked it with my GPSDO. See attached.

Can you do that test again, but also show the measurement stats at the bottom including Freq there, and the Counter popup box, like the one I showed in Reply #1157?

Thanks,
Josh
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1185 on: August 02, 2024, 04:17:01 pm »
There were some questions regarding the frequency counter. I checked it with my GPSDO. See attached.

Can you do that test again, but also show the measurement stats at the bottom including Freq there, and the Counter popup box, like the one I showed in Reply #1157?

Thanks,
Josh

Here we go!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 04:19:34 pm by Bad_Driver »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1186 on: August 02, 2024, 06:12:45 pm »
Damn it. Now I bought a GPSDO. 🤣
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1187 on: August 02, 2024, 07:11:08 pm »
Damn it. Now I bought a GPSDO. 🤣

I built my own some time ago.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/a-look-at-my-symmetricom-gpsdo-(ocxo-furuno-receiver)/msg3548229/#msg3548229

It runs now for 3 years and feeds my SDG2000, my SVA1032 and my HP53131a counter.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 07:23:35 pm by Bad_Driver »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1188 on: August 02, 2024, 07:18:36 pm »
I built my own some time ago.

Nice! That looks like a pretty serious project.

I just bought one for about $60 on Ali. If it sucks, I'll return it. 😉
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1189 on: August 02, 2024, 07:38:33 pm »
I built my own some time ago.

Nice! That looks like a pretty serious project.

I just bought one for about $60 on Ali. If it sucks, I'll return it. 😉

It´s a interesting topic, the GPS receiver guarantees long term frequency stability, a very good OCXO
and a good PLL is needed for low phase noise.
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1190 on: August 02, 2024, 07:40:20 pm »
It´s a interesting topic, the GPS receiver guarantees long term frequency stability, a very good OCXO
and a good PLL is needed for low phase noise.

I dunno how great it is. I bought it for the purpose of testing it. I have no other use for it, so that will be the entertainment.
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1191 on: August 02, 2024, 08:00:58 pm »
It´s a interesting topic, the GPS receiver guarantees long term frequency stability, a very good OCXO
and a good PLL is needed for low phase noise.

I dunno how great it is. I bought it for the purpose of testing it. I have no other use for it, so that will be the entertainment.

It‘s another rabbit hole   ;)
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1192 on: August 03, 2024, 01:27:12 am »
I did some more noise tests. Here they all are together.
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1193 on: August 05, 2024, 08:22:31 am »
I'm a little bit disappointed! I sold my SDS800 and my SDS2000X+ and spend some additional money for my 2000HD
and now I can't find the logarithmic freq. scale in FFT! 

The SDS2000X+ got this feature with the latest firmware and the SDS800 had it from the beginning. My firmware of my 2000HD is up to date.
Has anyone information about upcoming improvements with the next firmware???
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #1194 on: August 05, 2024, 08:33:51 am »
I have not the slightest doubt that this will also come for the 2000X HD.
Conversely, I wouldn't be so sure. ;)
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Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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It‘s another rabbit hole   ;)

I dunno, but I'd say for the ~$60, this rabbit hole isn't toooooooooo shabby:



ETA: I opened the device up and noticed a huge PEBKAC error! Some dummy had the scope input set to 10X (10X defaulted since Siglent's default button sucks at detecting autosense). Image updated. 🙄🤣

Here it is after another hour of running:

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:09:43 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline KungFuJosh

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What exactly is effecting or limiting the counters on the scope? I think the discrepancies between the different counters are a little funny. I realize the Measure section has a much faster sample rate so it's going to see more variation, but is that it?

Why are different 10MHz sources pretending to be the same on the main counters?

The attached screenshot is using the Reference Out from the SDG2122X. Of course, plugging the AWG's Ref Out to its Counter gave a perfect 10.000,000MHz result lol.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:07:41 am by KungFuJosh »
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Offline Performa01

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What exactly is effecting or limiting the counters on the scope? I think the discrepancies between the different counters are a little funny.

The trigger frequency counter and the counter application work pretty much like a traditional frequency counter (at frequencies >=1 MHz): The internal timebase operates a gate and the input edges are counted while the gate is open - and then scaled according to the gate time in order to get a Hertz display. The input signal is the undecimated data stream from the ADC.

The automatic frequency measurement works differently. It uses the acquired record, which might include decimated data. Even if not decimated, there is still a massive difference, because it works the opposite to the frequency counter: It is aways a period measurement, i.e. the input signal defines a gate and the sample clock is counted. This gives a much worse precision for a single measurement, but we also have the mean value in the measurement statistics. Even with a single acquisition, the statistic will register four masurements in your example, because there are 4 full periods in one record. The mean value of 4 measurements is already closer to the truth and after running a while, the difference should get minimal. And I think your GPSDO measurements confirmed that the automatic measurements can reach the same precision as the hardware counters.
 
 

Offline 2N3055

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What exactly is effecting or limiting the counters on the scope? I think the discrepancies between the different counters are a little funny. I realize the Measure section has a much faster sample rate so it's going to see more variation, but is that it?

Why are different 10MHz sources pretending to be the same on the main counters?

The attached screenshot is using the Reference Out from the SDG2122X. Of course, plugging the AWG's Ref Out to its Counter gave a perfect 10.000,000MHz result lol.

Hi Josh!

There is only one counter (hardware counter). That one works on channel that is trigger source and uses trigger threshold as a point on waveform where it counts. If you open Analysis -> Counter, that is that same counter, with more data (and stats) displayed.  It is a simple gated counter, nothing fancy.

All time related measurements in Measure window are derived differently. Frequency measurement there is simply an 1/t calculation from signal period measurement from actual sampled waveform. Actual thresholds where the signal pickoff is are governed by measurement thresholds. Make note that these measurements benefit from statistics that will even out all noise processes over thousand of measurements and be able to extract very decent accuracy by very different method.

Those two different methods practically guarantee there will be some difference in numbers.

But what are the differences.?

If we compare signal period of 10,00001e6 and 10,0000226e6 :

(1/10,00001e6)-(1/10,0000226e6)= 125,999589241054315091e-15

1,256 picoseconds.

That is pretty good in my book...

To be honest, i would never pretend that if you need very accurate frequency measurement (like 10 or 12 digits) that scope's built in counter would be instrument to do it. But for most of the general purpose work (like checking if µC clock is 10MHz, where you use 20ppm quartz anyways) it is more than sufficient.

PS: Why do I even bother? Performa already answered....  :-DD
« Last Edit: Today at 08:24:12 am by 2N3055 »
 
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