Which HDMI Microscope Camera and Zoom Lens for soldering

[dredd]

Hi.

I got profoundly lost choosing the camera and lens. My target application is PCB inspection and soldering of 0603 SMD components.
I already have HDMI 7" FHD LCD monitor, and stands are plenty. USB latency is too bad. Example of what I'm looking for:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007438433358.html

I tried Eakins Stereo 7x-45x zoom microscope last week, purely optical, returned, exit pupil was so small I could hardly see with both eyes.

Requirements:
- True 1080p @ 60Hz HDMI output, I heard that 30Hz is not enough for soldering. Probably some cameras fake 60Hz by copying 30Hz to 2 frames.
- Working distance from 130mm
- Zoom. I see crazy zoom numbers, so cannot put a number here. From 5mm of subject visible I reckon.
- Budget A$150 - A$300 for the set.

Autofocus is bonus, but probably not needed. I think lens has to have two adjustment rings - zoom and focus ?
Anyone has a setup they are happy with?

Thanks!!!

[pcprogrammer]

No experience yet, but I'm waiting for one I ordered. https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005007549402242.html

I ordered the 4K USB HDMI one with solid stand. It should arrive on September fifth at the latest.

I do have a small 7inch microscope with camera and it works for soldering and inspecting but the view is small and for good zoom the distance to the object is also small making maneuvering with the iron more difficult. Hopefully the ordered on will make things better.

[jpanhalt]

I use a 2X glass lense visor for 603 and larger.  I also wear +2 diopter reading glasses underneath (I am 80+ years) and haven't tried smaller.  For detailed inspection, I use a zoom optical stereo microscope (aka dissecting scope).  If you raise your work area relative to where you sit, it is easier to control.

[dredd]

I use a 2X glass lense visor for 603 and larger. ...

Do you have a pic of this? I tried some visor (lens) glasses from Amazon, working distance (WD) was too small, with my face literally on the table lol

[Phil1977]

My own experiences with the chinese microscopes:
- Manual focus is better than a bad autofocus
- Full HD (1080p) at 60Hz seems to be a sweet spot. 4K at 60Hz is tricky and you can see the difference between 4K and Full HD only when the object is perfectly flat and in the focal plane.
- The lenses as shown in your offer often only have one adjustment ring for the zoom ratio. Focus is only set by the height adjustment.
- The non-zoom lenses usually have a focus ring so that you can also have different magnification ratios by changing the focus. But this means you can't zoom into the object without refocussing.
- FOV is often more important than magnification. Do not choose the lenses with too high minimum magnification.
- Latency over HDMI was absolutely okay with the units I know. Latency over USB mostly was just bad.

[dredd]

Thanks a lot! Everything you said matches my thinking.
With all this in context, what should I buy, please? :)

[Phil1977]

Can you open this link?

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001194556375.html

I´d take the set with the 200x-lens.

If you want to spend more money you could try to find something with an image sensor a little larger than 1/2.3", like 1/1.8" . But for this I currently do not find any good offer.

[jpanhalt]

My visor brand is OptiVisor and it has a glass lens plus a loop on one side for added magnification.   It looks like this: https://www.amazon.com/OptiVisor-Optical-Glass-Binocular-Magnifier/dp/B0015IS6K2/ref=asc_df_B0015IS6IY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=692875362841&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16440620769943199314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015557&hvtargid=pla-2281435180058&mcid=f187e504b3c33a3a9e8090925a6d4ed6&hvocijid=16440620769943199314-B0015IS6IY-&hvexpln=73&th=1

Be sure to get a glass lens, and with a single lens, too much magnification will give a very short working distance.  Mine is 2X and the working distance of 10" seems about right.   I would not recommend a lighted visor either.

[csuhi17]

The high resolution version of yihua does not return a nice picture, it is very pixelated. I think the lower resolution is more usable.
There are several videos about them on YouTube.

maybe check it out https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000965179949.html
my mistake, it's not HDMI, it's USB
What bothers me is that there is no protection on the sensor, but that can be solved with a small lens protector. e.g. phone camera lens protector.

[thm_w]

Correct forum is here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/

Previous threads:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/more-on-soldering-microscopes/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/suggestions-on-a-decent-electronics-microscope/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/andonstar-digital-microscopes/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/microscope-for-soldering-sony-imx-comparison-fullhd-1080-vs-4k/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/digital-microscope-289630/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/are-digital-microscopes-any-good-for-home-soldering/
https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/eakins-hdmi-microscope.1295341/

[EvgenyG]

I've done some extensive research back in the day and I think that HAYEAR is a pretty decent brand for the price. I've been to Electronex 2024 and could compare my camera to the multi thousand dollar cameras on display, it is obviously not as good, but you're only paying a fraction of a cost. I've been using this one for about 2 years, very happy with it and no have absolutely no issues. The lens included with that lot is pretty good. The link is to their official store, they have cheaper cameras like mine and more expensive that have Panasonic sensor.

[CaptainBucko]

For what it is worth, I can't solder under a 2D microscope camera. I can inspect, and I can touch the tip of an iron onto a joint, say to do a minor fix.

But getting the hand/eye co-ordination of tweezers/solder/soldering iron, is too hard for me, and actually it gives me a really bad headache.

The 3D stereoscopic microscope at work I can use all day for soldering, no problems.

Others say they can make it work with practise, so maybe I am not trying hard enough....

[shabaz]

My visor brand is OptiVisor and it has a glass lens plus a loop on one side for added magnification.   It looks like this: https://www.amazon.com/OptiVisor-Optical-Glass-Binocular-Magnifier/dp/B0015IS6K2/ref=asc_df_B0015IS6IY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=692875362841&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16440620769943199314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015557&hvtargid=pla-2281435180058&mcid=f187e504b3c33a3a9e8090925a6d4ed6&hvocijid=16440620769943199314-B0015IS6IY-&hvexpln=73&th=1

Be sure to get a glass lens, and with a single lens, too much magnification will give a very short working distance.  Mine is 2X and the working distance of 10" seems about right.   I would not recommend a lighted visor either.

I use a genuine DA-4 (i.e. 2x mag version) glass-lens Optivisor too. I can wear them for hours with no problem, and the amount of magnification feels just right for a lot of SMD work.
Another benefit is that it often doesn't need to be moved (much) out of the way when looking further away, because you can just tilt your head up a bit, and peer just beneath the lenses.

[dredd]

Found this table with optical data for a typical lense:
https://www.yydag.com/en/productsd.php?tid=40&pid=781

Yydag is OEM for Eakins optical line, so the data is more accurate here, makes more sense. Apparently there are two attachments to main zoom body:
- eyepiece (top), can be 0.35X, 0.5X, 1X. I think it should match sensor size: 0.5x for 1/2" sensor, 0.35x for 1/2.8" sensor. Also called "camera adapter".
- Aux lens (bottom). I guess it is barlow lens. 0.5X, 1.0X, 2.0X. 0.5x reduces magnification and increases WD by factor of 2. Also called "objective lens".

[pcprogrammer]

I received my camera today and hooked it up to a monitor via HDMI and I'm very pleased with how it works. At first I thought wow what a crappy image, but it was set to black and white. 

Have to do some playing around with the lights to get the best results for soldering, but with the two lights on the base that have swan necks it works better than with the LED ring around the lens. The camera can sit high up giving a wide view of the board and still allow for good magnification of the component areas. With the digital zoom it is also easy to capture a smaller area of the PCB. Goes up to 5x.

I feel that it will improve soldering a lot for me due to being able to sit up straight and look at the monitor instead of the PCB and still maneuver easily with the soldering iron. A real live test has to prove this of course. Need to clear my soldering desk and make a proper setup for this though.

The only down side is that the supplier forgot to add the power supply for the camera in the package, so I have to see what kind of discount I can arrange based on that. 

As a proper electronics hobbyist I have loads of power supplies so not a big deal though.

Will see if I can post some pictures of the camera in action in a couple of days.

[Kjelt]

Follow mode

[EvgenyG]

I feel that it will improve soldering a lot for me due to being able to sit up straight and look at the monitor instead of the PCB and still maneuver easily with the soldering iron.

It will save your eyes, back and neck, too. You will also easily see any small defects that you won't normally see. The other fact: an average/okay looking job under magnification will look great without it.

[Kjelt]

Also interested in purchasing a unit but what is up with that magnification? 200x? Then you can only see a single 0603 resistor. With my stereoscope I work mainly with 3x-10x magnification.
My guess is that those numbers are not the same unit.
Can someone please take and show a picture of a board with their 200x unit ?

[Phil1977]

Also interested in purchasing a unit but what is up with that magnification? 200x? Then you can only see a single 0603 resistor. With my stereoscope I work mainly with 3x-10x magnification.
My guess is that those numbers are not the same unit.
Can someone please take and show a picture of a board with their 200x unit ?

Magnifications are phantasy numbers and absolutely not comparable to classic optical microscopes our loupes.

Look for the specified field of view (FOV) or image area. These numbers usually are correct.

[pcprogrammer]

I feel that it will improve soldering a lot for me due to being able to sit up straight and look at the monitor instead of the PCB and still maneuver easily with the soldering iron.

It will save your eyes, back and neck, too. You will also easily see any small defects that you won't normally see. The other fact: an average/okay looking job under magnification will look great without it.

That is what I implied with sitting up straight. 

I used to do it with a smaller camera with build in 7 inch display but that still required bending down a bit causing back and neck pains. Having Fibromyalgia does not help with that either. 

Also interested in purchasing a unit but what is up with that magnification? 200x? Then you can only see a single 0603 resistor. With my stereoscope I work mainly with 3x-10x magnification.
My guess is that those numbers are not the same unit.
Can someone please take and show a picture of a board with their 200x unit ?

The one I received has a 1x - 150x lens, but it depends on the height of the camera what the magnification can be, this due to focus. I will take some pictures later today and post them here.

[Postal2]

Sensor must be Sony only. And I'm too greedy to buy it yet. Expensive. But all another is crap.

Any cheap one will do for YouTube videos, but you won't be able to work with them.

[pcprogrammer]

As promised some pictures.

The stand is 580mm high but from the front of the lens to the work surface it is maximum about 500mm. The stand has a fine tune knob to move the camera 20mm up or down from the center position.

The one I got uses a Panasonic cmos sensor. (With a Sony sensor it is ~20 euros more) For me the quality is good enough.

I made pictures at three different heights of the camera and on one of them I also used a digital zoom of 2x.

Have not yet put a SD card in the camera so no images shot with the camera itself.

Also did not verify the measurement cross on the screen.

And yes the room looks like one from a hoarder, but it just needs a tidy up. 

[Postal2]

As promised some pictures. ....

Crap.
The Eakins store on Aliexpress has a demo video of the Sony camera, it works exactly as it should. But it's expensive.

[Phil1977]

As promised some pictures.

The stand is 580mm high but from the front of the lens to the work surface it is maximum about 500mm. The stand has a fine tune knob to move the camera 20mm up or down from the center position.

The one I got uses a Panasonic cmos sensor. (With a Sony sensor it is ~20 euros more) For me the quality is good enough.

Can you tell something about latency? I have one Eakins with a panasonic 1080p sensor that has no perceptible latency at all. Then I worked with a Hayear 4k (with Sony sensor  ) setup that was only set to 1080p and latency was not terrible but also not really good.

Of course latency has more to do with the image processor than with the sensor manufacturer - but I think it´s one of the key features for a soldering microscope.

@Postal2: Can you live out your general life frustration somewhere else? Why do you call setups of other people crap even if they are satisfied?

[Postal2]

@Postal2: Can you live out your general life frustration somewhere else? Why do you call setups of other people crap even if they are satisfied?

These people are not satisfied, but try to deceive others by pushing bad solutions.

...I have one Eakins with a panasonic 1080p sensor that has no perceptible latency at all. ....

It's no use if the eye is blind. I have a camera whose latency is fine for me, but it has poor sensitivity and that's enough.