Which DMM should i get? Anyone has a Brymen BM319s?

[TnF]

So, hello to the forum:p First post here. To introduce myself i'm a recent mechanical engineering graduate. Of course i had been into electrical stuff from little (my father is an electrical engineer) and started getting into computers and programming by 1998 or so. Long story short, i got into electronics deeper while studying at uni, and i combined this with automotive (which is my passion to be honest). I discovered Dave's youtube channel a couple of years ago and started learning more. Now to the main part:

I'm looking to upgrade my equipment. I remember when i had the cheapest of the cheapest chinese multimeters, i probably went through 3-4 of those. Then got an Excel XL830L (yes laugh, the 830 should ring a bell!) and some "quality" (lol) probe leads. It has been really good for the 8gbp i paid for it, still works but it is time to upgrade to something more serious. From what i researched i think the only way to get what i want is to buy 2 different DMM. It might not even fit my budget but correct me if i am wrong. I'm thinking anywhere between 100-150eur, pushed to 200eur if you can get features or accessories that justify the extra 50eur. I am located in Cyprus so technically Europe, so generally it comes cheaper and faster buying from EU since you don't have to pay the import taxes (which is another story) but i'm not limited to this though - i'm just informing you.

I am very fond of the Brymen DMM's. The price to performance is probably the best in the industry at the moment i believe (with the exception of the model with the s**t backlight though). Since i saw the Brymen BM319s i want to get one. It is really useful for automotive work of which i do regularly. At least it would be more convenient. I don't have a bench oscilloscope yet, and probably won't for the next couple of years, but i have a Minidso DSO203 quad portable oscilloscope. I think a very old model was covered in EEVblog in the past, but with the latest custom Wildcat's firmware it is a little beast. You get 7Mhz analog bandwidth on 2 channels, 14Mhz on a single channel (hardware implemented, software not yet but coming hopefully), and 4 channel digital logic. Enough for what i've been doing at the moment (atmel micros, basic electronics, auto electronics of which are all relatively low frequency, audio, etc.)

However i see the BM319s is missing some features i would like for my perfect DMM:
- True-RMS sensing
- Higher resolution (~50000 counts or more) which is also usually accompanied with higher accuracy/precision/repeatability.
- Relative zero mode (except if i'm missing something for the BM319s)
- Current measurement of higher than 10A (although BM319s can do up to 20A for 30sec)

Optional:
-Internal datalogging
-OLED screen

Not needed:
-VFD compatibility
-Anything for high power stuff (mains installations, 3-phase, insulation testing etc)
I can borrow my father's Fluke for these. However i do high voltage stuff with ignition coils. I have coils capable of reaching 35kV. I haven't tried to touch them but with 100mJ discharge 80 times per second is probably going to hurt much:p

Everything else that the BM319s has i really want but i might overlook some features.

From what i understand if i want True-RMS i am stuck with this list here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/

But hopefully someone has a better solution:)

[Lightages]

You are not going to get an automotive meter and a good general electronics meter in one package IMHO. At least you will not find one at a price you might be willing to pay. It might be convenient to have a BM319S to do what you want on a vehicle, but IMHO there are too many trade offs to get that convenience.

With the BM319S you get the easy to read RPM, ms second readings for duration of injectors, and dwell functions, but what much else? All this at the cost of a higher CAT rating and functions.
 The thing is, for the price, it would be hard to replace the function of the BM319. I would get the BM319S and a BM235 or BM257!

[TnF]

You are not going to get an automotive meter and a good general electronics meter in one package IMHO. AT least you will not find one at a price you might be willing to pay. I might be convenient to have a BM319S to do what you want on a vehicle, but IMHO there are too many trade offs to get that convenience.

With the BM319S you get the easy to read RPM, ms second readings for duration of injectors, and dwell functions, but what much else? All this at the cost of a higher CAT rating and functions.
 The thing is, for the price, it would be hard to replace the function of the BM319. I would get the BM319S and a BM235 or BM257!

Thanks for the reply. Let's say if budget wasn't a problem. Is there a DMM that has all the features i want? I can't say i searched everyone of them but from what i see is that more expensive automotive oriented DMM's go to more automotive related functions and more expensive DMM's go towards to more accuracy, high-speed electronics, and datalogging features. If this indeed is the case, the best i can do is do go with 2 separate multimeters, which might not be so cost effective long term but helps short term because i can just buy one of the two initially. I wouldn't go with the BM2XX series though, i'm thinking of BM8XX or similar (lots of options for this type though).

[mos6502]

I do quite a bit of work on cars, and I can tell you, the extra features like RPM or dwell on "automotive" multimeters are mostly useless. Just get a general purpose meter.

TrueRMS is also useless when working on cars. But it's useful for general electronics work, so I would still get a meter that has it.

But what you really want is a meter that has a good min/max and peak min/max feature. So, you really want the Fluke 87V.

[Lightages]

Is there a DMM that has all the features i want?

Sorry but I do not know what multimeter would meet all your wants in one package. Personally I still think a two meter solution is better anyway. If you are working on a car, the multimeter is going to get rather dirty. Better to keep your electronics meter clean especially if it is to be used on higher energy circuits. A meter used on a car is also more like to be subjected to extreme temperatures and mechanical shock.

As far as wanting a Fluke as suggested, there are benefits to both brands. Choose the one that meets your needs more overall, not just based on one specific specification or function that someone else tells you is the single most important.

[Wytnucls]

The Fluke 88 is a dedicated automotive meter, but in reality differs very little from the 87V. Apart from RPM, the rest of the functions is pretty standard. Its user manual is comprehensive though, and should be consulted for best results.

[TnF]

Thanks for the responses. A Fluke multimeter is way out of my budget though even if it had super extra amazing features to justify its price. Perhaps the best solution is to have a dedicated automotive multimeter, and a high precision one with true rms capabilities and datalogging for general use. Not sure which one to buy first though, i need to have a think about it :s

[joeqsmith]

I have a crappy UNI-T UT210E clamp that I think is going to work out for checking the current without using a shunt and having to pull the terminal.   Have already had to use it.   I am not a big fan of the 87V.  First time you do something like hook your meter across the AC clutch, then get a little BEMF, you may loose the meter.  It's just not very robust.   The Fluke 101 is very robust and with the 210E is still under $80.

[Lightages]

I think Joe is on to something there. Get a cheap clamp meter like the UT210E or the UT211B for automotive use. Then get a nice meter for general electronic use.

The BM829S is good but has no data logging. It can be connected with a PC cable but the cable isn't cheap.:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/

If you want cheaper and with a cable included, then the UT71D is an "OK" choice, but keep it away from high energy circuits. This would not be my first choice but it is OK for the bench:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT71D-True-RMS-Auto-Data-Log-Digital-Multimeter-AC-DC-Volt-Ohm-Cap-Tester-/311418334183?hash=item4881faabe7:g:WzMAAOSwPcVVwxq9

The ultimate Brymen for logging is the BM525S with up to 87000 records at up to 20 per second. To really take advantage of it though you need the cable and software:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm525/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm525s/
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/kitbu-86x/meters-software/brymen/

If you can live without temperature measurement, this is hard to beat. It would need a cable of data logging though:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm857s/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/

If you can live with lower precision then there are some pretty good meters at lower prices. Examples are the UT139C, the BM235 that Dave sells here, the BM257S is a really good one. You can always buy any Bryemn, and then get the PC cable later when the budget permits.

Also contact iloveelectronics here on the forums. He also sells some Uni-T and Brymen meters. He is the friendliest and most reliable ebay seller I have had the pleasure to do business with. He also ships very fast. Everyone here likes him.

[Robomeds]

Sadly this isn't quite the smoking deal it used to be but the Amprobe Am-270 may be worth a look
http://www.amazon.com/Amprobe-AM-270-Industrial-Multimeter-Temperature/dp/B004W2NJLO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457644989&sr=8-1&keywords=amprobe+am-270

The 270 is based on the same family of meters as the Brymen BM857.  It's only a 5000 or 6000 count meter (forgot the exact amount) but the accuracy is good and can do temperature and has a data output (you still need the cable... or make one).  At ~$120 it's arguably a better deal than the BM257.

I would also look at ebay for a Greenlee DM-820A. 
Amazon link for reference http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-820A-True-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B003TO5YUK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457645373&sr=8-1&keywords=greenlee+multimeter+dm-820
It is also a Brymen based meter but it looks like a BM-829 that got sea sick.  It's 10000 count but still a very good meter and they commonly go for ~$110 in great condition.  I got one for $55 in dirty but fully functional condition.  Measures temp and the like.  Quite durable but perhaps a bit bulky.  Anyway, if you are willing to go used it's probably the best "easy to find" value I can think of in a quality multimeter.  The Am-270 is a sure thing if you want to buy from a real store vs just some seller on ebay. 

[TnF]

Thanks for the suggestions, but i think you all kinda shifted towards more of your personal requirements in the case not mine. If i wanted a cheap ass DMM for automotive use i would continue to use the crappy one i have now. It did its job well, but like i mentioned the convenience you get with the added automotive functions is something i require at the moment. The precision and datalogging stuff are only need for electronics work, of which will be done indoors, therefore not even internal datalogging is needed - with most Brymen you can get the infrared adaptor and even if i want to do remote datalogging in that case i can just connect it to a laptop and we are done. Unlimited datalogging, no extra $$$ spend.

Now if i were to get a precision true-rms dmm with over 10000 counts, like the Brymen 86x, 85x, 52x series i would lose all the automotive functions. Plus there is a huge selection of such DMM's of which i can research later. The Brymen 257, 235 are like the best DMM for value but they are a compromise i could only make if i was limited to buy one DMM only at this moment. Since there is no DMM with everything i want i am forced to buy 2. However like i mentioned i can just buy one of the two later. If i go with the precision one first the only things i gain over the crappy one i have now, is more precision (and some advanced functions i probably don't have the need for right now) in general terms (yes i keep using the word precision which is not the correct word to use but you get what i mean). If i buy the automotive one first though, not i only gain automotive functions, but some more precision and advanced functions over of what i have in the moment. So investment wise, i should go with an automotive one first.

Which one though? The Brymen BM319S fits my budget, is build upon the already proven 2xx series and has all that i would expect for the money is selling for. If you want to help me, please compare this to other automotive DMM's or give me some feedback if anyone owns it already:)

Btw aren't the Amprobe ones overprice rebranded products? I was looking for an infrared thermometer and they are essentially Uni-T ones.

[Wytnucls]

Have a look at the similar UNI-T UT109. It is cheaper and is true RMS. Might be all you need for your automotive work.

http://www.batronix.com/shop/multimeter/multimeter-ut109.html

[TnF]

Have a look at the similar UNI-T UT109. It is cheaper and is true RMS. Might be all you need for your automotive work.

http://www.batronix.com/shop/multimeter/multimeter-ut109.html

I saw that one too, you lose many things only to get reduced price, and true-rms sensing of which i won't need.

I think Joe is on to something there. Get a cheap clamp meter like the UT210E or the UT211B for automotive use. Then get a nice meter for general electronic use.

The BM829S is good but has no data logging. It can be connected with a PC cable but the cable isn't cheap.:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/

If you want cheaper and with a cable included, then the UT71D is an "OK" choice, but keep it away from high energy circuits. This would not be my first choice but it is OK for the bench:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT71D-True-RMS-Auto-Data-Log-Digital-Multimeter-AC-DC-Volt-Ohm-Cap-Tester-/311418334183?hash=item4881faabe7:g:WzMAAOSwPcVVwxq9

The ultimate Brymen for logging is the BM525S with up to 87000 records at up to 20 per second. To really take advantage of it though you need the cable and software:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm525/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm525s/
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/kitbu-86x/meters-software/brymen/

If you can live without temperature measurement, this is hard to beat. It would need a cable of data logging though:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm857s/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/

If you can live with lower precision then there are some pretty good meters at lower prices. Examples are the UT139C, the BM235 that Dave sells here, the BM257S is a really good one. You can always buy any Bryemn, and then get the PC cable later when the budget permits.

Also contact iloveelectronics here on the forums. He also sells some Uni-T and Brymen meters. He is the friendliest and most reliable ebay seller I have had the pleasure to do business with. He also ships very fast. Everyone here likes him.

I already contacted Franky for other stuff too, although i hope he replies very soon because i am about to put an order for the BM319S from TME. Not only cheap express UPS shipping to Cyprus, an already good price, and no import taxes i need to pay for!

[SkyMaster]

I have a Brymen BM319.

I bought it from TME.

The BM319 is an automotive DMM that has many of the features found on the BM257 (I also have a BM257s).


If I had to do it again, I would still buy a BM319. I like my BM319 

[TnF]

Yes i think i am making the right choice. Franky did reply to me but told me that he cannot get a single product, because there is MOQ from the manufacturers. Still, i'm here adding more and more stuff from TME! It's like going to a supermarket and you pass through the candy aisle :p

[NiHaoMike]

You'll definitely want a DC clamp meter or DC clamp probe for automotive work. CAT IV as well for working on hybrids or EVs.

[TnF]

You'll definitely want a DC clamp meter or DC clamp probe for automotive work. CAT IV as well for working on hybrids or EVs.

Hehe, i won't be working with EV's in a long long time from now:p In case i need to measure such big currents for whatever reason (insane audio car systems and/or alternators) i can borrow one of my father's clamp meters. Pretty sure he has one that does DC clamp too. Either way if you had such a problem with big DC currents it would surely show in other more destructive ways:p

Anyways, just put an order from TME, 207gbp, about 100 for the DMM, ~10 for shipping, ~30 DMM accesories, and rest tools and electronic components. I will be posting teardown pics of the BM319S when i get it probably in the next week. It's already 6am here so got to go Thanks for your responses

[NiHaoMike]

The main use case for a clamp meters is measuring currents larger than 10A, of which there are a lot in automotive. The starter motor and alternator immediately come to mind, but the HVAC, electric power steering, and headlights are some other obvious loads that can exceed 10A.

For example, if you have a car that won't start and a jump start is of no help, a clamp meter can give a good clue whether it's a flaky starter motor/bad connection or something causing excessive mechanical load like a seized pulley.

[TnF]

Got it yesterday: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/brymen-bm319s-automotive-dmm-teardown-small-review-tme-supplier-feedback/