Where is the Keysight Megazoom V ASIC?

[EEVblog]

I would not bet on a new ASIC.  The advantage of an ASIC over an FPGA is possibly lower power consumption at the same performance. However ASICs can not use the high end processes as FPGAs due to the very high mask costs. So the advantage is getting smaller and smaller - if there is any left at all.
If at all a ASIC would be thing for high volume, low cost solutions, or if there is no access to high end FPGAs but only cheap not so high end chips. This would not be KS, but more Rigol / Sigilent.

Yes, it will be interesting to see which direction they take in their next scope architecture.
On the one hand the Megazoom IV ASIC have kept them in the game for 13+ years now, and it's still one of the most if not the most responsive scope on the market.
Basically the only downside was integrating the sample memory on the die, so as the years went on the memory size began to look very limited.

[EEVblog]

My biggest issue with Keysight is the move to renting the hardware features.
For example, the E36731A Battery Emulator and Profiler is a PSU and electronic load you can drive perfectly from the front panel. However, to use the Battery Emulation side, you need to obtain a licence for BenchVue, as it can only be driven from the PC. The licence is rented annually.

Yeah, that sucks arse.

[EEVblog]

It is possible though that Keysight has developed an ASIC containing an off-the-shelve GPU solution + ADC interface as a building block for a DSO. Whatever Keysight comes up with has to be a leap forward somehow.

Agreed, it has to be a leap forward.
They have just been bested by R&S's ASIC in terms of update speed.
It has to be a 12 bit solution as that is standard now.
It has to have HDMI as standard, and hi-res to boot. One possible innovation here would be to actually scale the waveform data if you connect an external monitor. No other scope has that.
I wouldn't bet against marketing adding AI in some way 
Announcing the new Keysight 3000AI

[EEVblog]

I would not bet on a new ASIC.  The advantage of an ASIC over an FPGA is possibly lower power consumption at the same performance.

And lower cost, though only after the NRE is revovered.

The other are still doing ASIC. R&S did it. Rigol did it.
It does allow absurdly powerful specs to flow down into lower market segments.

[Someone]

I would not bet on a new ASIC.  The advantage of an ASIC over an FPGA is possibly lower power consumption at the same performance.

And lower cost, though only after the NRE is revovered.

The other are still doing ASIC. R&S did it. Rigol did it.
It does allow absurdly powerful specs to flow down into lower market segments.

Rigol didn't, they have analog and ADC ASICs, but the waveform rendering is FPGA.

[Bud]

It seems like the exiting days of Keysight are over.
- Very few youtube videos
- No more "Scope Month"
- Daniel is hiding
and so on ....

Maybe they are concentrating more on the high end UXR scopes.

No I do not see anything wrong with Keysight. They just recently sent me an invite to their webinar "How to protect your satellite network". Very useful. 

[EEVblog]

I would not bet on a new ASIC.  The advantage of an ASIC over an FPGA is possibly lower power consumption at the same performance.

And lower cost, though only after the NRE is revovered.

The other are still doing ASIC. R&S did it. Rigol did it.
It does allow absurdly powerful specs to flow down into lower market segments.

Rigol didn't, they have analog and ADC ASICs, but the waveform rendering is FPGA.

It does a bit more than that:
https://www.rigolna.com/UltraVisionII/



But in any case they invested in ASIC's which allows them to reverage the price advantage into lower market segments.

[nctnico]

It has to have HDMI as standard, and hi-res to boot. One possible innovation here would be to actually scale the waveform data if you connect an external monitor. No other scope has that.

If I'm interpreting posts on this forum correctly, I think the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 actually do scaling of the display data to some extend when connected to an external monitor. I highly suspect Rigol is using a GPU to render the screens on these scopes instead of an FPGA. When using a GPU you get scaling (almost) for free.

[EEVblog]

It has to have HDMI as standard, and hi-res to boot. One possible innovation here would be to actually scale the waveform data if you connect an external monitor. No other scope has that.

If I'm interpreting posts on this forum correctly, I think the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 actually do scaling of the display data to some extend when connected to an external monitor. I highly suspect Rigol is using a GPU to render the screens on these scopes instead of an FPGA. When using a GPU you get scaling (almost) for free.

I believe that just a standard android O/S scaling, it's not the actual waveform data in any way.

[nctnico]

It has to have HDMI as standard, and hi-res to boot. One possible innovation here would be to actually scale the waveform data if you connect an external monitor. No other scope has that.

If I'm interpreting posts on this forum correctly, I think the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 actually do scaling of the display data to some extend when connected to an external monitor. I highly suspect Rigol is using a GPU to render the screens on these scopes instead of an FPGA. When using a GPU you get scaling (almost) for free.

I believe that just a standard android O/S scaling, it's not the actual waveform data in any way.

In that case I don't quite get what you are after. Do you mean you can get more information? Like more measurement positions? More horizontal divisions?

[2N3055]

I would not bet on a new ASIC.  The advantage of an ASIC over an FPGA is possibly lower power consumption at the same performance.

And lower cost, though only after the NRE is revovered.

The other are still doing ASIC. R&S did it. Rigol did it.
It does allow absurdly powerful specs to flow down into lower market segments.

Rigol didn't, they have analog and ADC ASICs, but the waveform rendering is FPGA.

It does a bit more than that:
https://www.rigolna.com/UltraVisionII/



But in any case they invested in ASIC's which allows them to reverage the price advantage into lower market segments.

Their ASIC is only 2 chips: AFE (analog front end) and OSP chip.  OSP chip has ADC and some DSP (probably equalization and linearization of data from massive parallel ADCs).

Rest of UltraVision platform resides in normal FPGA and application processor.
What they call SPU (sampling processing unit) is actually their IP running in commercial FPGA.

WPU and CCU (Waveform plotting and central control unit) are running in application space on general purpose CPU with DSP extensions. GPU would be here and be able to contribute here.

As for Keysight, they developed loads of new ASICs for UXR series that are also used on MXR series.
It is just that it remains to be seen if they care about "low cost segment" anymore.

Like I said before, with Megazoom range, they are in the same spot as Fluke with F87V. As long as people are buying it, why invest. They might even have (actually I'm sure they do) some architecture thought out, even if no physical prototypes.
But market game is tit for tat game. You reveal your next step only when forced. In meantime you milk it...

[pdenisowski]

The other are still doing ASIC. R&S did it.
It does allow absurdly powerful specs to flow down into lower market segments.

It also allows them to flow up -- we released the MXO4 more than a year before the MXO5 and MXO5C.

Someone posted in another thread that we're adopting a Star Wars strategy - start with MXO4, MXO5, and MXO6, then go back and do MXO1, MXO2, and MXO3.   Can neither confirm nor deny

[EEVblog]

Their ASIC is only 2 chips: AFE (analog front end) and OSP chip.  OSP chip has ADC and some DSP (probably equalization and linearization of data from massive parallel ADCs).
Rest of UltraVision platform resides in normal FPGA and application processor.
What they call SPU (sampling processing unit) is actually their IP running in commercial FPGA.
WPU and CCU (Waveform plotting and central control unit) are running in application space on general purpose CPU with DSP extensions. GPU would be here and be able to contribute here.

Correct. The point is though that most of the big companies are doing ASIC's for scopes, so it obviosuly pays them to do so.
I'd be stunned if new Keysight scopes don't have a new ASIC(s). Whether or not it's called the Megazoom V remains to be seen.

As for Keysight, they developed loads of new ASICs for UXR series that are also used on MXR series.
It is just that it remains to be seen if they care about "low cost segment" anymore.

Depends on how you define the "low cost segment".
Most manufacturers seem the bring down ASIC/tech from higher end platforms down to lower end segments. Keysigh have done that before and I don't doubt they'll do it again.
Might not be right off the bat, but it will happen.

Like I said before, with Megazoom range, they are in the same spot as Fluke with F87V. As long as people are buying it, why invest. They might even have (actually I'm sure they do) some architecture thought out, even if no physical prototypes.
But market game is tit for tat game. You reveal your next step only when forced. In meantime you milk it...

more than 13 years a long time to milk.
IIRC the interval between previous Megazoom ASIC was 8 years. So well overdue.
I doubt you'll have to wait much longer.

[EEVblog]

It has to have HDMI as standard, and hi-res to boot. One possible innovation here would be to actually scale the waveform data if you connect an external monitor. No other scope has that.

If I'm interpreting posts on this forum correctly, I think the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 actually do scaling of the display data to some extend when connected to an external monitor. I highly suspect Rigol is using a GPU to render the screens on these scopes instead of an FPGA. When using a GPU you get scaling (almost) for free.

I believe that just a standard android O/S scaling, it's not the actual waveform data in any way.

In that case I don't quite get what you are after. Do you mean you can get more information? Like more measurement positions? More horizontal divisions?

Yes, more division and/or more data physically plotted because you have more pixels.
Even if you keep the same number of divisions, if you have a higher resolution screen you have more pixels per division with which to plot data.

[jusaca]

I actually get the impression Keysight is not really interested in the mid range market anymore so they concentrate on the high-margin, high-end products. Rigol and Siglent delivering quite a decent performance in the mid-range for a comparatively low price is probably destroying the margin for the production prices Keysight can achieve.

You can see this in a lot of areas. Established companies leaving the entry market to newcomers because margin just isn't interesting anymore, compared to devices being sold for a complete magnitude higher up the price range.

[nctnico]

I actually get the impression Keysight is not really interested in the mid range market anymore so they concentrate on the high-margin, high-end products. Rigol and Siglent delivering quite a decent performance in the mid-range for a comparatively low price is probably destroying the margin for the production prices Keysight can achieve.

It is not like that. The mid-range market is very much alive for A-brands like Keysight, R&S or Tektronix.  A couple of weeks ago I visited an electronics lab and factory in Taiwan. Not a single piece of test equipment from Rigol or Siglent anywhere. When I asked about it the tech told me they simply buy Tektronix or Keysight like everyone else. They can't be bothered going for the unknown.

[tv84]

It is not like that. The mid-range market is very much alive for A-brands like Keysight, R&S or Tektronix.  A couple of weeks ago I visited an electronics lab and factory in Taiwan. Not a single piece of test equipment from Rigol or Siglent anywhere. When I asked about it the tech told me they simply buy Tektronix or Keysight like everyone else. They can't be bothered going for the unknown.

That's a very particular situation... If I visited Iran's labs, I guess I would not be seeing israeli stuff... Unless it was on the bench for open heart reversing surgery...

[mawyatt]

It is not like that. The mid-range market is very much alive for A-brands like Keysight, R&S or Tektronix.  A couple of weeks ago I visited an electronics lab and factory in Taiwan. Not a single piece of test equipment from Rigol or Siglent anywhere. When I asked about it the tech told me they simply buy Tektronix or Keysight like everyone else. They can't be bothered going for the unknown.

When we were still working before retiring and starting up our consulting business, same was true, everything we had was HP/AG/KS, Tek, Fluke and R&S.

However later after retiring and having to spend our "own $" rather than companies, we needed to do more investigation. Took the plunge an went with "other" brands like Siglent, then Instek, Korad, and Rigol. Not disappointed with any of those decisions, in fact some TE was a delightful surprise

One thing to consider when working at a big company, many get massive discounts on major brands and thus pay nowhere near what the smaller folks pay. This of course is not public knowledge and assume each major company has negotiated special discounts with various TE OEMs.

When your overall company general purpose TE budget was well over $10M/yr 40 years ago, you can imagine that "special arrangements" were in place with all the big TE OEMs!!

Another consideration is the equipment "origin" may dictate whether it's allowed in "certain" labs or even within the company facility 

Best,

[pdenisowski]

Another consideration is the equipment "origin" may dictate whether it's allowed in "certain" labs or even within the company facility 

Yes, this is extremely important for some customers.  There are some T&M companies who manufacture the same product in two different countries for this reason.

[EEVblog]

Another consideration is the equipment "origin" may dictate whether it's allowed in "certain" labs or even within the company facility 

Altium learned this the hard way when they moved their HQ from Australia to China. The US government threatened to drop all Altium licences, and Altium quickly moved their HQ to the US 

[EEVblog]

I actually get the impression Keysight is not really interested in the mid range market anymore so they concentrate on the high-margin, high-end products.

I can assure you that they are.

[2N3055]

I actually get the impression Keysight is not really interested in the mid range market anymore so they concentrate on the high-margin, high-end products.

I can assure you that they are.

They are.. But only if they can keep same profit margins as they enjoyed for years.

[EEVblog]

I actually get the impression Keysight is not really interested in the mid range market anymore so they concentrate on the high-margin, high-end products.

I can assure you that they are.

They are.. But only if they can keep same profit margins as they enjoyed for years.

We'll see...

[msuthar]

there are rumors that in few months Keysite will be launching a new scope worldwide, based on UXR platform design , scale down model and will be having 14 bit adc. Will have MSO option and will be in the low coast segment. anyone confirms?

[2N3055]

there are rumors that in few months Keysite will be launching a new scope worldwide, based on UXR platform design , scale down model and will be having 14 bit adc. Will have MSO option and will be in the low coast segment. anyone confirms?

14 bit, UXR, low cost. MSO....

LOL...

UXR is a up to 110GHz scope platform that starts at 200000+ USD for 13GHz version..
They might make a new version and sell it bit cheaper than what it is now...

People here talk about replacement for Keysight Megazoom IV ASIC used in 1000/2000/3000 Infiniivision scopes..