What I want (and probably a lot of other hobbyists too....)

[Fungus]

I work a lot with Arduinos so I need a 'scope, but nothing on the market really seems to fit the bill.

2 channels isn't enough for the job (I often look at three or more signals at a time) and the price of a 4 channel DSO is a massive jump from a 2 channel. I can't really justify spending that much.

But...usually some (or all) of the signals I'm looking at are digital. Even if I bought a 4-channel 'scope, all the extra input circuitry would be wasted/unused.

What I really need is a 2-channel 'scope with 4 (or digital inputs.

Analog bandwidth doesn't need to be great, 50MHz would be enough. I also don't need massive buffer depths, etc., basic functionality will do.

The same goes for the digital inputs, if I can see a 25MHz signal, that's plenty. Some basic logic analyzer functions (I2C, SPI) would be appreciated.

Is there anything out there that fits this description? I own a DSO Quad and that _kinda_ does the job but I hate the controls (and the limitations created by them). I'd be happy to pay double for something like that with real knobs on it that lets you scroll/zoom/etc.

I know of exactly *one* candidate which looks very close to what I want, the Hantek MSO5102D. The MSO5102D hardware looks fine, the analog side looks good, but the digital side seems like a bit of an afterthought. As far as I can tell it just displays the inputs, nothing more. With a bit of logic analysis functionality in the firmware...? I'd probably be buying one.

So, any ideas about something that fits the requirements (2 analog, 4/8 digital, reasonable price)?

Anybody own a Hantek MSO5102D and can confirm my suspicions about the digital side?

[kizzap]

You want a Logic analyser.

Google Saleae.

[jpb]

You want a Logic analyser.

Google Saleae.

I was about to suggest that. Their new analysers do low frequency analogue as well but they are on pre-order so I don't know if they are available yet.

https://www.saleae.com/logic

[mariush]

It would probably help you more to get a logic analyzer like the ones Saleae sells, for example this Saleae Logic one which 8 digital inputs, at $149 : https://www.saleae.com/logic

You can find clones of these on eBay much cheaper, but I don't know how well the software works with those.

Arduino (and other microcontroller) projects don't generally do digital communication through their pins at such high frequencies that these logic analyzers would have problems "reading" the digital data.

You can get a separate scope for under $100 on eBay, some analogue or old 50-100 Mhz digital scopes.

edit: yeah, the two above me were faster.. less text, faster reply

[Fungus]

You want a Logic analyser.

No, I want a real device. With twisty knobs on it. One that doesn't depend on having a PC attached to be able to do anything.

I'm not always doing logic analysis and USB devices suck for analog work.

[kizzap]

You want a Logic analyser.

No, I want a real device. With twisty knobs on it. That doesn't depend on having a PC attached to be able to do anything.

 

so you want a top of the line standalone device, capable of working with every signal under the sun, and for the low, low price of free? Good luck.

[Fungus]

so you want a top of the line standalone device, capable of working with every signal under the sun, and for the low, low price of free? Good luck.

As noted above: Hantex are already making the hardware for it, in the right price range...

PS: I never said "top of the line" or "free". Quite the opposite in fact. Facepalm yourself. 

[kizzap]

so you want a top of the line standalone device, capable of working with every signal under the sun, and for the low, low price of free? Good luck.

As noted above: Hantex are already making the hardware for it, in the right price range...

PS: I never said "top of the line" or "free". Quite the opposite in fact. Facepalm yourself. 

Sorry, just frustrated, and took it out on the wrong person.

Look for "Mixed Signal Oscilloscope" exactly what you are after it seems.

[Creep]

Your closest bet for a good scope that can accomplish what you desire would probably be the Rigol DS1074Z. If you need more than 4 channels, then your mentioned Hantek or the DS1052D are most likely your only options left in that price range. You can't just magically say you want something, have to live with the options available. Plenty of people here would love to get their hands on a DS2000 4 channel model, as do I, but so far it looks like it is not meant to be.

[Harvs]

I just get by with a DS2xxx scope and a Hantek 4032L analyser (cheap, wide bus and relatively fast.) If it need to time correlate between the two I just do it manually by triggering the LA off the scope's trigger out.  Once upon a time I started writing some software to do that automagically (join analog and digital signals on the PC with a correlated trigger), but as I was the only one interested it sort of died.

The simple problem is MSO's are quite expensive compared to their DSO equivalents (in terms of analog side specs.)

[Fungus]

Your closest bet for a good scope that can accomplish what you desire would probably be the Rigol DS1074Z.

$950?

No sale...

If you need more than 4 channels,

I don't even need 4 analog channels, that's the whole point.

Analog channels are expensive to add, digital channels aren't.

You can't just magically say you want something, have to live with the options available.

True, but maybe I don't know what all the options are. That's why I'm asking.

This seems to be a new-ish market (cheap MSOs). Discounting the "toys", I've only seen one entry in it so far.

2-channel DSOs have 99% of the necessary hardware. All I need is a few digital inputs (which is cheap) and the rest is just software.

Hantek have proved they can make the hardware, they just need better software. I think they can make a lot of money if they do it.

Maybe I'll hang onto my DSO Quad for a little while longer and see what develops.

[owiecc]

$950?
No sale...

You basically want a scope but you don't want to pay for it. The only solution for you is to either steal one or find a used/demo model. You may cut 1/2 of the price of a new scope if you're lucky. Good luck!

[Fungus]

$950?
No sale...

You basically want a scope but you don't want to pay for it.

Huh? Where did I ever say I wanted a free 'scope?

(First of all, I got the price wrong, it's about $600...let's correct that and continue)

What I want is for Rigol to remove two of the channels from that 'scope and replace them with handful of digital channels. If they want to reduce the buffer sizes and remove some advanced analog features for marketing purposes? That's fine.

Hardware-wise it should work out about the same.

(or maybe cheaper - decent analog inputs are expensive!)


A 2-channel version of that with 4 digital inputs for $600? I'd be mighty tempted.


And last time I checked, $600 isn't "free".

[Creep]

If you only need 3-4 channels for your probing, then what is the issue with using the DS1074Z for that? Companies can't make a separate model for every detail someone has in mind. Rigol is already providing amazing bang for your buck.
If your so dead set on the digital channels, then have a look at the already mentioned DS1052D.

[Fungus]

If you only need 3-4 channels for your probing, then what is the issue with using the DS1074Z for that?

The price.

(Of the scope .... plus the "upgrades" needed to enable the logic functions)

Companies can't make a separate model for every detail someone has in mind. Rigol is already providing amazing bang for your buck.

It just seems like a hole in the market.

If your so dead set on the digital channels, then have a look at the already mentioned DS1052D.

I'm looking at it right now.

It does seem to have the functions I was after.

$800 bucks though, ouch! That's a lot of money for a hobby...

[Creep]

According to rigolna, the DS1052D is the same price as the DS1074Z...
And speaking about the upgrades: the scopes are hackable and you can get all the functionality for free. Look around the forums, you will find plenty of info (in fact, there is a 200+ page thread about it here).
So those 600$ are going to be your end price.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Considering the typical architecture of scopes these days, and the almost universal need for digital channels, it's surprising that all modern scopes don't have at least 8 digital channels - cost would be minimal - just a few comparators and some pins on the main FPGA.

[tom66]

Considering the typical architecture of scopes these days, and the almost universal need for digital channels, it's surprising that all modern scopes don't have at least 8 digital channels - cost would be minimal - just a few comparators and some pins on the main FPGA.

Input protection for high speed data and high speed comparators aren't particularly cheap, plus you need to dedicate extra FPGA fabric to it so you have to upgrade to a bigger FPGA. The DS1074Z main board has the provision for 16 digital channels, however, there's an extra FPGA with DRAM on the board for that, which isn't placed on the current boards. I think Rigol might be considering releasing an MSO1074Z at some point - if they do they will grab a good part of the market.

[avvidclif]

Try Bass Fishing if you think that's an expensive hobby. Or Ham Radio.

[idpromnut]

@Fungus: If you go here: http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000d/ds1052d/, it says the list price is 610$.

I don't know where you're located, but I'm in Canada, and when I bought my DS2072A, I got quoted essentially the exact price on Rigol's site but in Canadian dollars. So I don't know where the 800$ for that scope is coming from.

However, I will agree that there are cheaper options for MSO's, namely the Hantek that you're pointing out. You could also take a look at the new Siglent SDS2000 series, and specifically the SDS2072: http://www.siglent.com/en/product/detail.aspx?id=100000008529687&nodecode=119008001

EDIT: Note that I don't know if the DS1052D does protocol decode, which may or may not be important to you. The SDS2072 is supposed to have protocol decode in it (but it may be an add-on you need to purchase).

[KJDS]

Try Bass Fishing if you think that's an expensive hobby. Or Ham Radio.

Or motorsport

[Fungus]

I don't know where you're located, but I'm in Canada, and when I bought my DS2072A, I got quoted essentially the exact price on Rigol's site but in Canadian dollars. So I don't know where the 800$ for that scope is coming from.

Here in Spain I get 479 Euros + TAX (20%).

[Fungus]

According to rigolna, the DS1052D is the same price as the DS1074Z...
And speaking about the upgrades: the scopes are hackable and you can get all the functionality for free. Look around the forums, you will find plenty of info (in fact, there is a 200+ page thread about it here).
So those 600$ are going to be your end price.

It's closer to $800 around these parts.

If the DS1074Z can be hacked to unlock the serial functions then it works out about the same price as the DS1052D.

Looking at the two:

The DS1074Z+serial looks like it can do everything I need.

The DS1052D has more logic connections but it's damn ugly with those digital probes attached (grey ribbon cable plus nasty plastic box, really?) It also looks like it needs an extra couple of feet of desk space to even use it (something I hadn't really thought about before).



On balance.... I might go for the DS1074Z if I have to chose between the two.

Still, it's nearly $800.

I'm not saying it's not a bargain in the professional test equipment world but that's a lot of cash for a hobby. I can buy an awful lot of LEDs/servos/Pro Minis/etc. for $800.

[Fungus]

PS: How noisy are these new Rigols?

The previous generation of Rigol engineers seemed to design their products in a tin shack next door to a rocket engine test facility.

[KedasProbe]

Maybe this one is an option although the digital probe is not cheap.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-hmo-1002-economy-dso-from-rohde-schwarz-hameg/