What do you think of the new Fluke 87 V MAX?

[Shock]

Noone expects you to drop $450 on an 87V model unless you have the cash. If you don't or would rather spend that kinda money on more important things just get a secondhand one like everyone else.

The most I've spent on a meter so far is $115 for an 87V in good condition. Prior to that I brought a grubby 87V for $55, it took a fair amount of work but came up nice (see below).

[Shock]

Here is a video of the Fluke 111 which is very similar to the 112 but missing the back light. If they were still making these they would likely need to update the LCD and backlighting, it's a bit dated now, otherwise it's a tough little meter.

[floobydust]

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Marketing does stretch things. Always has. It's just now people can call out the bullshit, or at least try to before they drive the brand off a cliff.

NO! Not the sand from installing solar roadways! In my 8022B ! 

[Electro Detective]

Bluntly: no, they don’t want your money. Fluke doesn’t go for price-sensitive customers. It’s a perfectly valid business decision that no doubt was made by accountants who can calculate what makes more sense for them.

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Accountants, bean counters and investards can sit on their Casio calculator till the cows come home planning turnover magic,
but it's not the 1980/90s anymore when that mindset had a chance to work

Nowadays, ANY established brand can die in the ass if and when their bad corporat attitude and flogging same/meh products becomes obvious
and goes viral on the internet in general chat, not just Youtube comments and tech forum b!tching

Back on topic: this 28-11 rebadge '87V MAX' clearly indicates screws have rolled under the marketing team table at Fluke HQ.. 

[Fungus]

Accountants, bean counters and investards can sit on their Casio calculator till

That'd be the HP12C, not a Casio.

[Electro Detective]

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Marketing does stretch things. Always has. It's just now people can call out the bullshit, or at least try to before they drive the brand off a cliff.

NO! Not the sand from installing solar roadways! In my 8022B ! 

This guy had a few pipes before rocking up for work 

ffs put the freakin meter in a zipped sandwich bag if you're going to play with it in in a sand pit 
 

[Fungus]

ffs put the freakin meter in a zipped sandwich bag if you're going to play with it in in a sand pit 

There's no way that meter's not going in the bin after that. The switches will be full of sand, the case will be cracked...

[tooki]

Fluke doesn’t go for price-sensitive customers.

Apart from the millions of people who buy the Fluke 101, the Fluke 15B+, the Fluke 17B+ ... and all those other "Asian" meters.

Nonsense. The price-sensitive customer will then say “but I can get an equivalent Uni-T for $29”. No matter what feature set or market, Fluke is never among the cheaper options.

[tooki]

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Marketing does stretch things. Always has. It's just now people can call out the bullshit, or at least try to before they drive the brand off a cliff.

NO! Not the sand from installing solar roadways! In my 8022B ! 

This guy had a few pipes before rocking up for work 

ffs put the freakin meter in a zipped sandwich bag if you're going to play with it in in a sand pit 

Do you have even the slightest inkling of how stupid that statement makes you appear? The point of industrial equipment is that it’s not people “playing” with it. The point is that they’re tools that can withstand the rigors of industrial environments, including (and especially!) the “oopsies”.

[tooki]

Bluntly: no, they don’t want your money. Fluke doesn’t go for price-sensitive customers. It’s a perfectly valid business decision that no doubt was made by accountants who can calculate what makes more sense for them.

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Accountants, bean counters and investards can sit on their Casio calculator till the cows come home planning turnover magic,
but it's not the 1980/90s anymore when that mindset had a chance to work

Nowadays, ANY established brand can die in the ass if and when their bad corporat attitude and flogging same/meh products becomes obvious
and goes viral on the internet in general chat, not just Youtube comments and tech forum b!tching

Back on topic: this 28-11 rebadge '87V MAX' clearly indicates screws have rolled under the marketing team table at Fluke HQ.. 

LOL. Nope, economics and accounting still work just as they did before.

[rsjsouza]

ffs put the freakin meter in a zipped sandwich bag if you're going to play with it in in a sand pit 

There's no way that meter's not going in the bin after that. The switches will be full of sand, the case will be cracked...

If that meter went to trash after that event I couldn't tell, but one of the reasons they moved to a rotary switch was exactly due to the rotary being easier to avoid ingress of water and other contaminants.

Obviously that, if this change was done in days of social media, there would be a thread like this bitching, moaning and blaming the bean counters for actually using a cheaper solution.

[Electro Detective]

As an aside, the bitching and moaning and whining in this thread reminds me why I think that accounting and economics are things everyone should learn the basics of in school. The absence thereof is plainly evident in this thread.

Marketing does stretch things. Always has. It's just now people can call out the bullshit, or at least try to before they drive the brand off a cliff.

NO! Not the sand from installing solar roadways! In my 8022B ! 

This guy had a few pipes before rocking up for work 

ffs put the freakin meter in a zipped sandwich bag if you're going to play with it in in a sand pit 

Do you have even the slightest inkling of how stupid that statement makes you appear?
The point of industrial equipment is that it’s not people “playing” with it.
The point is that they’re tools that can withstand the rigors of industrial environments, including (and especially!) the “oopsies”.

For starters, that's not a rebadged 28-11 aka 87V MAX , or 28-11 EX in the photo above (from floobydust) Fluke meters that stand half a chance to quote "withstand the rigors of industrial environments"
much less a sand dunking by a clueless worksite knuckledragger, perhaps on the turps and or weed the night before,
please note that there are NO LEADS plugged into that meter 

Yes yes, sand dunked meters may work 'fine' for while, but it's downhill all the way from that point 

Once moisture and rough/fine particle sand, and metal grinding crap gets into those switches and or rotary tracks, it's service overhaul time,
or as Fungus above pointed out > the bin due to intermittent operation or unreliable readings

Meter users that work on or near the sea/ocean can't afford a salt water splash or sand romp
 
and don't expect long term miracles from quick fix compressed air blowouts, which may 'push' the problem plus moisture/condensation even further into the meter.

Would you risk your life or employee safety using a half knackered meter in that state ?

i.e one dip or two in that pictured sand and most meters won't perform as they should unless pulled apart, cleaned and finely lubed. 

What's your experience using meters in hard core industrial environments,
and have you had to service multimeters crippled due to dust/sand switches and dry/bridging tracks etc?
I have pulled apart and restored operations on 87V, 1520 and some LEM gear that were write offs and now working as new and perfect cal spec 


and go easy on the insults too mate, I fell for that baiting thing a handful here like to sport a couple of times,
unfortunately there isn't going to be a hat trick on that   

[Shock]

I remember the quality of these forums before the infamous sand wars of late 2019.

[floobydust]

I found an old comparison chart, to better show the applications for each Fluke DMM that Fortive forgot. The 87V MAX makes no sense aside from changing over to the 28II pc board.

Digikey USA no longer lists the 87V MAX? Digikey Canada no longer sells any Fluke products? Must have recently happened 
And the USA site is newly carrying Owon, Tenma brand DMM's for cheap.

That vintage ad I thought funny because it's so obvious what John Fluke's values were back then, and the role of sand. I was also surprised the 802x manuals had some heart in it:

Dear Customer:

Congratulations! We at Fluke are proud to present you with the Model 8022B Multimeter. This instrument represents the very latest in integrated circuit and display technology. As a result, the end product is a rugged and reliable instrument whose performance and design exhibit the qualities of a finely engineered lab instrument.

To fully appreciate and protect your investment, we suggest you take a few moments to read the manual. As always, Fluke stands behind your 8022B with a full 2 year warranty and a worldwide service organization. If the need arises, please don't hesitate to call on us.

Thank you for your trust and confidence.

John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.

[Fungus]

Fluke doesn’t go for price-sensitive customers.

Apart from the millions of people who buy the Fluke 101, the Fluke 15B+, the Fluke 17B+ ... and all those other "Asian" meters.

Nonsense. The price-sensitive customer will then say “but I can get an equivalent Uni-T for $29”. No matter what feature set or market, Fluke is never among the cheaper options.

The Venn diagram of "price sensitive" and "wants a decent meter" has an overlap.

Not everybody is clueless enough to think a Fluke 15B+ and a Uni-T are "equivalent".

I think the Fluke 17B+ is a very good meter but if I compare the features with an equivalent price Brymen then personally I'm not buying the Fluke. YMMV.

Fluke are still manufacturing the 15B+ and 17B+ though so that harpoons all your theories. They DO want money from price sensitive customers.

[tautech]

Fluke are still manufacturing the 15B+ and 17B+ .......

I wonder if the PCB's are still the same like 15/17B were ?
$30 more for just a couple of extra buttons ? 

[tooki]

Fluke doesn’t go for price-sensitive customers.

Apart from the millions of people who buy the Fluke 101, the Fluke 15B+, the Fluke 17B+ ... and all those other "Asian" meters.

Nonsense. The price-sensitive customer will then say “but I can get an equivalent Uni-T for $29”. No matter what feature set or market, Fluke is never among the cheaper options.

The Venn diagram of "price sensitive" and "wants a decent meter" has an overlap.

Not everybody is clueless enough to think a Fluke 15B+ and a Uni-T are "equivalent".

I think the Fluke 17B+ is a very good meter but if I compare the features with an equivalent price Brymen then personally I'm not buying the Fluke. YMMV.

Fluke are still manufacturing the 15B+ and 17B+ though so that harpoons all your theories. They DO want money from price sensitive customers.

No, you’re literally proving MY point and discrediting yours: you’re saying you’d buy the Brymen instead of the 17B+. Every way you cut it, you’re saying the Fluke is too expensive and you’ll buy something else. So... price sensitive.

And sure, tons of people will buy the Uni-T over the “equivalent” Fluke. Tons of people either have modest needs, or don’t know that they actually should have a better meter. So they see a cheaper meter with the superficially same feature set and buy that instead.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Sigh; maybe we should have another 10 pages on what 'better' means?

Everyone is price sensitive to a point but Fluke do currently seem to be selling less well-engineered products and applying a price premium based on their reputation.

A quality meter is simply one that meets the user's requirements; using that definition, my Aneng AN8008 is a quality meter and it only cost me $16 US (+ $10 for some decent silicone leads).

[Fungus]

No, you’re literally proving MY point and discrediting yours: you’re saying you’d buy the Brymen instead of the 17B+. Every way you cut it, you’re saying the Fluke is too expensive and you’ll buy something else. So... price sensitive.
[/quote]

I'm not saying I'm not price sensitive, I freely admit that.

I'm saying Fluke is making cheap(ish) meters while you're claiming they're not at all interested in price-sensitive customers.

And sure, tons of people will buy the Uni-T over the “equivalent” Fluke. Tons of people either have modest needs, or don’t know that they actually should have a better meter. So they see a cheaper meter with the superficially same feature set and buy that instead.

Aaaaand... right back down the big snake to the start.

Question: Why do they even bother making the 101, the 15b+, the 17B+, etc. According to you they must be selling zero units due to competition from Uni-T so they should have discontinued those lines years ago to concentrate on the $400 meter market.

Instead we see the 15B being replaced by the 15B+, the 17B being replaced by the 17B+, a whole new model - the 18B+, etc.

Where do they fit into your world vision?

[tooki]

 
You’re not understanding me. As I’ve elucidated already, it’s not about absolute price, it’s about price for a given feature set. A customer who needs 4.5 digits and a particular feature set isn’t going to be looking at the 3.5 digit models, for example. But they will look at different 4.5 digit meters and compare their feature sets, and the ones who want more bang for the buck will buy something other than Fluke, while the ones who are less price sensitive will buy the Fluke.

Analogy: when shopping for a vehicle, $50K is cheap for a V8 sports car, and expensive for a compact sedan. So “price sensitive” might mean someone who spends $50K for a sports car, or $20K on a sedan.

[floobydust]

Value might be a better word.

Fluke brand quality, reliability, safety and support, limited lifetime warranty are top values for some users.
Others users want low price and lots of counts, extra features. It doesn't matter that the safety approvals are fake, warranty, reliability are not there at all, in the case of chinese DMM's.

Relevance to the 87V MAX is upping the price $100 for the IP67 feature, yet the 27,28III already have that as Fluke's harsh environment product offering.
Relevance to the 87V MAX is its antique feature set that Keysight, Brymen, Zotek, Uni-T and many other manufacturers are crushing.

Fortive is asleep at the wheel- this is why I'm bitching that they wasted piles of cash getting new injection moulds, testing, marketing for a giant nothingburger product release.

[tooki]

For sure different customers prioritize different characteristics. This simple fact seems to be beyond the comprehension of many here.

What new molds? It’s the same meter. They just needed to silkscreen one part differently. I speculate that the higher drop rating was likely achieved by supporting with glue whatever part broke off in drop tests of the 28II.

I really don’t understand why you all feel so attacked by Fluke rereleasing the same thing with a different name. It’s not even the first time Fluke has sold the same product at the same time under two different model numbers. (The 23 and 77 are the same meter, just in different color housings.) It boggles the mind that this bothers you all so much.

[Shock]

Then there is the Fluke 87IV, 89, 187, 189 model shuffling and Fluke 75 to 77 hack. Criminals!

A good test when comparing brands/models is consider if both were the same price, which one would you want? Then consider is the actual price difference worth it for you? If you are wanting Fluke top shelf but are buying Aliexpess then that is a budgeting problem not Flukes fault.

[blacksheeplogic]

Yes yes, sand dunked meters may work 'fine' for while, but it's downhill all the way from that point 
i.e one dip or two in that pictured sand and most meters won't perform as they should unless pulled apart, cleaned and finely lubed. 

Yes, my first 87 bought in the very early 90's went to every imaginable shit hole in the world and suffered this problem as a result. Stripping the meter works the first few time but I eventually had to replaced it.

[Electro Detective]

Fluke are still manufacturing the 15B+ and 17B+ .......

I wonder if the PCB's are still the same like 15/17B were ?

$30 more for just a couple of extra buttons ? 

Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets 

Tear down time, who has these models for a perv? 


Plizza you posta foto here, tanka you very much