What do you think of the new Fluke 87 V MAX?

[Electro Detective]

Lifetime Warranty nuking reasons aside, they could have just called it something like the '87-5 Plus' losing the confusing Roman iIvVxX numbering BS too 

advertising it as the heavy duty version of the 87V based on the 28x model,
and no one would have raised concern or smelled deceptive practices 
and include both meters in the video, so customers can choose which Fluke to go for that suits their working conditions.

i.e. if someone needs more than one meter, they may be better off with an 87V back in the lab/shed/cubby/personcave etc
and the heavy duty version rolling around in the tool bag for field use, which fwiw is my setup 

I originally had two 87Vs and had to baby the one I had on jobs, and wasn't aware of the 28-11 till I saw DJ's Youtube videos.
Anyways I sold one 87V and luckily scored a pre loved 28-11 in good nikk for about the same dollars.

A 28-11 is a tough no brainer on jobs, but like all my test gear I will throw a leather glove or rag on it if sitting in direct sunlight.

Not sure if extreme exposure harms/kills these meters or trashes the displays,
and not willing to find out, especially at Fluke replacement prices   

[rammy]

Good news, the 87v max will be assembled in USA declared by fluke's ig reply

[tooki]

I notice on the page for it there's a chart comparing it to the 87V.
It lists the drop test of the 87V as 3 meters.
Last I checked, the 87V drop rating was 1 meter.
I think someone screwed up in making the page for that thing.

I doubt it’s a mistake, but rather “clever” marketing.

The 87V’s specs list a 1m drop according to a specific IEC standard. The MAX’s specs just list “drop test” without any standard, meaning it could be a much simpler test, one which the 87V does indeed survive to 3m.

[Electro Detective]

A drop rating of one metre/meter or three metres/meters tells us nothing.

Is the drop on to concrete, steel girder, wood, carpet, ice, Wookie head, what? 

Is the multimeter powered on, off, or standby mode during the drop?

What angulation of droppage ?

Ambient temperature: is the multimeter more/less at risk whilst powered on or off in cold or hot weather conditions?

i.e. under favorable conditions ANY multimeter can be dropped 1 to 3 metres/meters, and still power up.
Same deal with the operator   

Marketing 'teams' need to include in stoner sales spins, what substance they were indulging in at the time of their decision to roll out the ads/promos.

IIRC back in the day.. a well thought out marketing brochure coupled with the user manual of a product, made for quick and easier purchase decisions and usage 

and fwiw, any multimeter I drop (not often btw) from any ouch height gets taken apart and inspected ASAP, not turned on and returned to 30+ volts prodding duties,
no matter if it's 28-11 or a cheapie

[Mr. Scram]

Good news, the 87v max will be assembled in USA declared by fluke's ig reply

Why is that good? US manufacturing isn't known as a cut above other usual suspects.

[rsjsouza]

Good news, the 87v max will be assembled in USA declared by fluke's ig reply

Why is that good? US manufacturing isn't known as a cut above other usual suspects.

I fully agree it is not a guarantee of quality. However, having manufacturing close to home (anywhere where there is decent manufacturing industry, not only US) GREATLY helps with initial setup, quality overseer during production and accountability when things go wrong.

I've had to deal with both scenarios and, for a product that does not sell in the millions of units per month/year, the closer to home the better.

[Mr. Scram]

I fully agree it is not a guarantee of quality. However, having manufacturing close to home (anywhere where there is decent manufacturing industry, not only US) GREATLY helps with initial setup, quality overseer during production and accountability when things go wrong.

I've had to deal with both scenarios and, for a product that does not sell in the millions of units per month/year, the closer to home the better.

I'm not so sure. The US manufacturing workforce has been downsized substantially and expertise and knowledge has consequently bled away. More has to be done with less than years ago. If domestic or close to home manufacturing were tied to quality US products would likely have a better reputation than they currently do. The US doesn't seem to be known for quality manufacturing.

[Electro Detective]

"assembled in.." can mean anything 

I reckon they been reading posts here and Youtube comment whines,
about flagship class Fluke meter prices 'Made In NoOneCan100%VerifyLand' 
so they can justify the big price tags
and or an imminent price hike, if supposedly 'assembled' in the original country of 'assembly' and manufacture

I smell and call BS on this one 


@ Fluke corpotrolls and the like: DON'T even think about it, I'm on to your tired bait and Report tactics   
Try it on another forum, you may get a bite or two over there.. 

[rsjsouza]

I fully agree it is not a guarantee of quality. However, having manufacturing close to home (anywhere where there is decent manufacturing industry, not only US) GREATLY helps with initial setup, quality overseer during production and accountability when things go wrong.

I've had to deal with both scenarios and, for a product that does not sell in the millions of units per month/year, the closer to home the better.

I'm not so sure. The US manufacturing workforce has been downsized substantially and expertise and knowledge has consequently bled away. More has to be done with less than years ago. If domestic or close to home manufacturing were tied to quality US products would likely have a better reputation than they currently do. The US doesn't seem to be known for quality manufacturing.

I am not saying this from a theoretical position; I have been working on this for the best part of three years. The company that does the overseer and the control may have other priorities at hand such as cost, but you can control the output of your production run much more tightly. I am not, however, involved with million unit production runs but instead about ten thousand units per year.

[Mr. Scram]

I am not saying this from a theoretical position; I have been working on this for the best part of three years. The company that does the overseer and the control may have other priorities at hand such as cost, but you can control the output of your production run much more tightly. I am not, however, involved with million unit production runs but instead about ten thousand units per year.

Fluke has well established manufacturing in China so that's no more or less a home game than US manufacturing.

[Fungus]

I fully agree it is not a guarantee of quality. However, having manufacturing close to home (anywhere where there is decent manufacturing industry, not only US) GREATLY helps with initial setup, quality overseer during production and accountability when things go wrong.

When you're manufacturing at Fluke scales you can afford to have a decent manager over there, permanently.

"assembled in.." can mean anything 

Whenever I see that label I think it's only there for marketing purposes - because the buyers will pay extra if they believe they're buying something patriotic, not something "imported".

In reality it might mean a single screw was put in to hold the imported parts together.

[Fungus]

and fwiw, any multimeter I drop (not often btw) from any ouch height gets taken apart and inspected ASAP, not turned on and returned to 30+ volts prodding duties,
no matter if it's 28-11 or a cheapie

That's the message of the video: With a Fluke you don't need to do that.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I design PCBs and help my customers get the initial batch of prototypes made. 

There are many many US contract manufacturers around and their quality is really good, components are almost certain to be real, and you can address issues with them face to face.  Those are not things that I can say about Chinese manufacturing.  The biggest issue is that the cost of manufacturing in the US is 2 to 5 times greater in the US than in China.

This is just my experience, others may have difference results.

[Mr. Scram]

I design PCBs and help my customers get the initial batch of prototypes made. 

There are many many US contract manufacturers around and their quality is really good, components are almost certain to be real, and you can address issues with them face to face.  Those are not things that I can say about Chinese manufacturing.  The biggest issue is that the cost of manufacturing in the US is 2 to 5 times greater in the US than in China.

This is just my experience, others may have difference results.

It looks like you're US based though. When you have people on the ground permanently or even your own manufacturing facilities the home turf advantage evaporates.

[blacksheeplogic]

I've had to deal with both scenarios and, for a product that does not sell in the millions of units per month/year, the closer to home the better.

I have a Fluke 117 that is Made in China.  It's every bit made to the same standard as their Made/Assembled in the USA.

Made in America means nothing to me over made in China. It's the company and it's reputation that matters.

[Electro Detective]

My Fluke beef a while back (before professionally baited unawares, and thrown under the troll bus..)
was that if the apparently supervised  'Made In China' meters are just as good in quality and support as those formally made in the USA,

then why the same mega prices when it's so much cheaper to produce in China? 

Where's the loyal customer benefits to justify 'sorry bub, not made in USA anymore' and local job losses?   

Fluke has THE name and reputation, and no serious competition as yet to dent their sales,
so why are the MIC meters so expensive, at Made In USA prices and beyond ?
 
The decent quality MIC 114, 115, 116, 117 aren't that cheap for what they are,
for that money you are looking at a serious Brymen or different brand of orange holstered meter,
LOADED with features and performance. 
 
and to be quite frank, they could have packed the few features of the 115 and 116 into the 117,
charge the same 117 money,
to save electricians, tradies, HVAC, and serious home gamers a decision headache between four same-ish models 

[Black Phoenix]

My Fluke beef a while back (before professionally baited unawares, and thrown under the troll bus..)
was that if the apparently supervised  'Made In China' meters are just as good in quality and support as those formally made in the USA,

then why the same mega prices when it's so much cheaper to produce in China? 

Where's the loyal customer benefits to justify 'sorry bub, not made in USA anymore' and local job losses?   

Fluke has THE name and reputation, and no serious competition as yet to dent their sales,
so why are the MIC meters so expensive, at Made In USA prices and beyond ?
 
The decent quality MIC 114, 115, 116, 117 aren't that cheap for what they are,
for that money you are looking at a serious Brymen or different brand of orange holstered meter,
LOADED with features and performance. 
 
and to be quite frank, they could have packed the few features of the 115 and 116 into the 117,
charge the same 117 money,
to save electricians, tradies, HVAC, and serious home gamers a decision headache between four same-ish models 

Mate, tell me a company who moved his production from US or EU or any Western country to China, Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc and lowered the prices of the products because of his production being cheaper in that country instead of the home country? Just one with proof... I can't remember any. They move because it increases their own bottom line and the investors pockets, not to pass that savings to the end customer. If you don't agree with that then don't support the companies who do that.

Again by looking at the 87V vs the 87VC (china only version) and the 289 vs 289C the build is made in different places (all C versions are made in china) but are exactly structural and component wise equal to the non C versions. As I said before, the all Made in USA is just a status symbol who does mean jack shit.

Plus the main part of the thread it was to understand/speculate why the 87V MAX was released if it's a rebrand of the 28II, not (again) comparisons between China made and US made equipment.

[Electro Detective]

They are meandering towards deceptive marketing to keep up with other marketards, and money grubbing for the sake of lazy low life investors and unemployable brokers,
and not doing US punters any favors 

which this post, about a multimeter rebadge, to dodge support of the previously badged model, clearly reveals 

yet the skeptical loyal customer is force fed some 'reputation driven company' BS, in 2019..which is hard to swallow.

As a Fluke owner and still fan  my next purchase/s, or consideration to purchase, will be after a LOT of research, Youtubes.. 
and a glance at what the competition has to offer.

i.e. if something else also MIC looks good and performs well enough at a 1/10 of the price,
bring it on... 

fwiw I now own some Uni-T gear ( ) and optimistic CAT label concerns aside, they are good enough for the tasks I bought them for,
especially if it's not CAT dependent work 

[Gandalf_Sr]

Yes I'm US-based plus I'm close to the heart of the Automotive industry in SE Michigan.

More thoughts on China:

- Made in China can be good but you have to have 2 things in place to get 'good'. 1) Representatives on the ground to keep Chinese CMs on their toes and ensure your quality 2) Repeat business to follow (maybe).

- My Apple iPhone says something like "Designed in California, made in China" on it and it's an awesome product.

- I have had several PCBs made by PCBWay in China, the quality is excellent and the price very low compared to the US.

- I've heard that China has so many businesses competing that there's always somewhere willing to make it cheaper and that by forcing down prices the bean counters (financial management) often force down quality.

- As many have said, many US manufacturers prefer to see the savings in manufacturing costs of 'made in China'  go to their profits rather than savings to their customers.

- My local CMs privately voice annoyance with the Auto industry who have reputations of giving CMs big contracts that take up half of their production capacity and then coming back and demanding outrageous price reductions once the CM has ramped up to meet their customer's needs.  This is by no measure just an electronics industry issue.

[rsjsouza]

Fluke has well established manufacturing in China so that's no more or less a home game than US manufacturing.

It could be, but we can only wonder why they still insist in US manufacturing then. If Flukes made in PRC were identical and cheaper, why then have different model designators for that market alone? 87VC or the 101 are examples.

Marketing alone is not enough to hold the facilities in a given country, since it can be easily circumvented by word play shown in the subsequent discussion below:

"assembled in.." can mean anything 

Whenever I see that label I think it's only there for marketing purposes - because the buyers will pay extra if they believe they're buying something patriotic, not something "imported".

In reality it might mean a single screw was put in to hold the imported parts together.

That is my experience as well. 

[tooki]

Fluke has well established manufacturing in China so that's no more or less a home game than US manufacturing.

It could be, but we can only wonder why they still insist in US manufacturing then. If Flukes made in PRC were identical and cheaper, why then have different model designators for that market alone? 87VC or the 101 are examples.

Easy: US military and other government that require critical equipment to be made in USA. (People don’t realize that even many brands that manufacture everything abroad have minor domestic manufacturing facilities in order to be able to sell a version to the military that is “Made in USA”. But you’ll never see those on the web store, they have to be ordered through government sales offices.)

[Black Phoenix]

They are meandering towards deceptive marketing to keep up with other marketards, and money grubbing for the sake of lazy low life investors and unemployable brokers,
and not doing US punters any favors 

which this post, about a multimeter rebadge, to dodge support of the previously badged model, clearly reveals 

yet the skeptical loyal customer is force fed some 'reputation driven company' BS, in 2019..which is hard to swallow.

As a Fluke owner and still fan  my next purchase/s, or consideration to purchase, will be after a LOT of research, Youtubes.. 
and a glance at what the competition has to offer.

i.e. if something else also MIC looks good and performs well enough at a 1/10 of the price,
bring it on... 

fwiw I now own some Uni-T gear ( ) and optimistic CAT label concerns aside, they are good enough for the tasks I bought them for,
especially if it's not CAT dependent work 

My story with Fluke was different.

My first contact with the Yellow Meter was the Fluke 112 that was given to me and all my colleagues at the Electronics/Electricity Vocational Degree (Equivalent to the VET in AUS) for the degree. After that I had the chance on my first work to have the Fluke 111 (same as the 112 but without the screen light function) for me as work DMM. Although I also had a Fluke 77-IV that was my senior colleague DMM. Later he bought the Fluke 1587 as his new DMM (It was common for us to test Transformers Isolations and Motors on the CNC machines we sold and repaired, so instead of renting equipment we gone and bought it) and the 77-IV turned my new DMM. I also had the chance to use the Fluke 705 Loop Calibrator (used for testing boards for faulty sensors) and the Fluke Scopemeter 97.

So basically all my first 3 years of work were around Fluke equipments, so when the chance to buy the Fluke 289 in 2007 appeared (was added to the company quotation for new equipments, but I paid fully from my pocket. I just had a small discount because of the many equipments we bought but I still paid more that €850 for the FVF kit) I simply didn't refuse it. After that all my other Fluke buys were on the side market and paid way less than the selling price (Fluke 54II for £80 and now the Fluke 87V for US$260.00).

Currently I still like Fluke but the lack of innovation in some of their money movers makes me start looking apprehensive. And rebranding existing equipments is not innovation.

Kinda makes me remember this video from Fluke itself:



Although I don't deny that they have a big slice of the market and a lot of brand respect and reputation, who made them win contracts with governments and military. And that makes the will to innovate a second plan (See Intel vs AMD).

Easy: US military and other government that require critical equipment to be made in USA. (People don’t realize that even many brands that manufacture everything abroad have minor domestic manufacturing facilities in order to be able to sell a version to the military that is “Made in USA”. But you’ll never see those on the web store, they have to be ordered through government sales offices.)

Yes I always forget than that kind of requirements exists.

/EDIT: Correction of the English to a understandable and mostly continuous thought, I hope!

[Mr. Scram]

Easy: US military and other government that require critical equipment to be made in USA. (People don’t realize that even many brands that manufacture everything abroad have minor domestic manufacturing facilities in order to be able to sell a version to the military that is “Made in USA”. But you’ll never see those on the web store, they have to be ordered through government sales offices.)

With the US COTS policy and apparently large amounts of counterfeit parts found in everything up to and including fighter jets there doesn't seem to be a requirement to have military DMMs made in the US.

[james_s]

I have a Fluke 117 that is Made in China.  It's every bit made to the same standard as their Made/Assembled in the USA.

Made in America means nothing to me over made in China. It's the company and it's reputation that matters.

Why should it? Both America and China are foreign countries to you. Would you be willing to pay a premium for something that is made in Australia though?

I like to support the local economy when I reasonably can. People complain when there are no good well paying jobs, and then they go out and buy the cheapest imported stuff they can find. Can't have it both ways, can't sell at rock bottom prices while paying people reasonable living wages to build and support stuff.

[Fungus]

I like to support the local economy when I reasonably can.

Sure, but buying something stamped "assembled in the USA" probably isn't doing that.

(...any more than buying products that are marked "Designed in California")