What do you think of the new Fluke 87 V MAX?

[tooki]

I've used 87's at below -20°C and instantly the test leads (TL75 PVC) get hard and brittle, then the LCD freezes up, then the alkaline batteries get cold and voltage plummets. By then I'm usually frozen though. PVC test leads shatter when they get cold, that's a hazard. Does this meter come with silicone test leads? Could find nothing in the product docs.

Umm, the docs all prominently state that it comes with the TL175 test leads, which are silicone.

Also, they already showed people using the 28II in Antarctica years ago. I doubt they had to change anything in the LCD.

What are you talking about? The 28 II was also made in USA. There is zero reason to assume the 87 V Max is made in China.

Not to mention that it is a newer design than the 87V.

The "Product Details" page at TEquipment identifies the country of origin as China.  We haven't seen one yet so AFAIK nobody has had a chance to read the box, but TEquipment correctly identifies the country of origin for other products that I checked.  I guess we'll see.

Given that the 28II and 87V are made in USA, it’s unlikely the 87V Max will be made in China. My guess is that somebody copied the database entry for one of the cheap Fluke meters that is made in China, and hasn’t updated it, pending inspection of an actual unit.

I think it's a minimal revamp of an old cash cow 30+years old. Danaher/Fortive can charge the extra $70 for the IP67 and leds.

It's a clever move from a marketing viewpoint.

I'm guessing not many people were buying the 28II - why would you if you're only going to use it indoors on a workbench?

By renaming it "87V MAX" they're going to sell an awful lot more of them even though it's the exact same meter with a bit more rubber. The pointy haired bosses will sign off on one of those without asking questions so long as it still says "87V" in the name.

After the 737 MAX fiasco, I’m surprised they didn’t choose a different name. Why not simply 87VI? (Or do they finally have a bona fide 87VI in the works?)

[Marco1971]

Hi all, possibly a better battery compartment in this "new model"...

Better than the standard one in FLUKE 28II (in my beloved one too)...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fluke-28ii-battery-compartment-bulge-normal/

Marco1971

[Fungus]

But why do I worry really?

Because the biggest name brands in the multimeter scene has stopped doing any R&D?

That they're still making the same meter they've been making for the last (mumble) years?

[floobydust]

Umm, the docs all prominently state that it comes with the TL175 test leads, which are silicone.
Also, they already showed people using the 28II in Antarctica years ago. I doubt they had to change anything in the LCD.

87-V MAX User Manual, Safety Information- no mention of the test leads beyond:
"Test Leads 1 (set of 2) *variable[1] - See www.fluke.com for more information about test leads and alligator clips available for your region."

Website 87V-MAX and Datasheet says it comes with TL175 silicon leads, TL175 datasheet:
DO NOT IMMERSE in liquid.
DO NOT USE in wet or damp locations.  oops

Temperature is a nothing burger, it's lost a bit:
87V MAX "Operating Temperature -15°C to +55°C, to -40°C for up to 20 minutes when taken from +20°C"
87V "Operating Temperature -20°C to +55°C"
28 II "Operating Temperature -15°C to +55°C, to -40°C for up to 20 minutes when taken from +20°C"

[tooki]

It’s possible that in Europe, they come with the TL175E test leads, which are simply the TL175 bundled with lantern tip adapters to let them securely plug into round-pin AC outlets.

I’m sure lawyers ensure the warnings you’re mocking.

As for temp... same as 28II, which allows excursions to lower temps than the 87V. Again, no change from the 28II. It really does look as though they changed absolutely nothing, other than perhaps gluing down some components to improve the drop rating.

[wnorcott]

The branding seems to water down the Fluke 87V which I have and is a fantastic meter, of course they are pricey.  It just seems weird to rename a lesser meter and call it "Fluke 87V MAX".   It just causes chaos and confusion in my mind.  It just reminds me of the Ford Mustang II  that was really just a rebadged Ford Pinto, and we all know how the Ford Pinto turned out.  Fluke really has to be careful about damaging their own brand reputation with a bad model name.

[Black Phoenix]

But why do I worry really?

Because the biggest name brands in the multimeter scene has stopped doing any R&D?

That they're still making the same meter they've been making for the last (mumble) years?

Yes and then we see releases of products like the NanoVNA at the price is released and the same companies still don't react with products around the same price with the same or more functions, taking ideas from their own portfolio. No let's just release the same DMM that we been manufacturing for the last 15 years (the Fluke 87V was released in May 2004 that was the sucessor of the 87III that was the sucessor of the 87 released in 1996) but as if it had gone into a Gym to get bulky.

Let's release a DMM with a Thermal Camera, when you can buy a better DMM and a better Thermal Camera for the same price (Talking about the Fluke 279 FC True-rms Thermal Multimeter that costs US$999. For that price I can buy a Fluke 87V and a Flir TG267 or a FLIR One Pro LT and still have money for a dinner).

It’s possible that in Europe, they come with the TL175E test leads, which are simply the TL175 bundled with lantern tip adapters to let them securely plug into round-pin AC outlets.

For the DMM that it is and the use is going to have it should come with the TL224 SureGrip Right Angle to Straight leads, the TP175 Tips (same as the TL175 but removable) and the Fluke AC285 SureGrip Alligator Clips. Then we have a deal.

The branding seems to water down the Fluke 87V which I have and is a fantastic meter, of course they are pricey.  It just seems weird to rename a lesser meter and call it "Fluke 87V MAX".   It just causes chaos and confusion in my mind.  It just reminds me of the Ford Mustang II  that was really just a rebadged Ford Pinto, and we all know how the Ford Pinto turned out.  Fluke really has to be careful about damaging their own brand reputation with a bad model name.

I don't see how is a water down, when the DMM is exactly the same as the 87V plus the IP67 of the 28II, that by itself was the the 87V but with IP67 (see the problem? Fluke already had a 87V with IP67 called 28II).

The only change is the name, an extra battery life, different leads and probably some internal changes that we still don't know because there aren't any teardowns or reviews available online yet.

[rsjsouza]

What are you talking about? The 28 II was also made in USA. There is zero reason to assume the 87 V Max is made in China.

Not to mention that it is a newer design than the 87V.

The "Product Details" page at TEquipment identifies the country of origin as China.  We haven't seen one yet so AFAIK nobody has had a chance to read the box, but TEquipment correctly identifies the country of origin for other products that I checked.  I guess we'll see.

Given that the 28II and 87V are made in USA, it’s unlikely the 87V Max will be made in China. My guess is that somebody copied the database entry for one of the cheap Fluke meters that is made in China, and hasn’t updated it, pending inspection of an actual unit.

For folks that want to say there are 87Vs made in China, check the long thread below.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-(2017)-lacking-quality-control/

[Black Phoenix]

For folks that want to say there are 87Vs made in China, check the long thread below.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-(2017)-lacking-quality-control/

Please no, that thread gone to sh#t way faster than I was expecting...

[xavier60]

Diode test is still limited to 2v, surely they could have revised this.

That's a total deal breaker for me. There are going to be a lot of people being caught out by this.
The diode test range must supply 1mA of constant current and read up to 3V just like the 87V.

[tooki]

The branding seems to water down the Fluke 87V which I have and is a fantastic meter, of course they are pricey.  It just seems weird to rename a lesser meter and call it "Fluke 87V MAX".   It just causes chaos and confusion in my mind.  It just reminds me of the Ford Mustang II  that was really just a rebadged Ford Pinto, and we all know how the Ford Pinto turned out.  Fluke really has to be careful about damaging their own brand reputation with a bad model name.

But the 28II was never a lower end meter. It actually is usually more expensive than the 87V. Other than the diode test voltage, the 28II has always been an improved, ruggedized version of the 87V.

What I find odd is why they even bothered to rename it. Dunno what was wrong with the 28II. Well, I guess I know now: some people mistakenly thought it was lower-end. (Not that higher numbers correlate to better models anyway. The 110 series and the predecessor 10 series are entry level meters.)

[tooki]

It’s possible that in Europe, they come with the TL175E test leads, which are simply the TL175 bundled with lantern tip adapters to let them securely plug into round-pin AC outlets.

For the DMM that it is and the use is going to have it should come with the TL224 SureGrip Right Angle to Straight leads, the TP175 Tips (same as the TL175 but removable) and the Fluke AC285 SureGrip Alligator Clips. Then we have a deal.

Ummm... they have the electricians kit version of it which comes with modular leads: https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke/87V-MAX/E2-KIT/

To complain that the regular version doesn’t have modular leads is silly.

[Black Phoenix]

Ummm... they have the electricians kit version of it which comes with modular leads: https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke/87V-MAX/E2-KIT/

To complain that the regular version doesn’t have modular leads is silly.

My mistake then, I didn't saw that kit version on the Fluke website. So I will withdraw what I previously said.

[bc888]

The other reason for a new model is that when they cease making an old version they will save $ repairing the old models for free which are no longer produced. The Fluke "Lifetime" guarantee has an end clock which starts ticking when productions stops. (below)


"Industrial products limited Lifetime Warranty
 

Lifetime is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996). The warranty does not cover manuals, fuses, disposable batteries, damage from neglect, misuse, contamination, alteration, accident or abnormal conditions of operation or handling, including failures caused by use outside of the product's specifications, or normal wear and tear of mechanical components. This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. This warranty covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs). To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models). THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS ARE INTENDED FOR SALE AND USE IN THE CHINESE AND HIGH GROWTH MARKETS ONLY AND AVAILABLE FOR WARRANTY PROTECTION ONLY IF SOLD, PURCHASED AND USED SOLELY FROM AN AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTOR WITHIN THESE TERRITORIES: 101, 106, 107, 15B+, 17B+ and 18B+. THE WARRANTY FOR THESE PRODUCTS IS VOID IF THE PRODUCT IS SOLD, PURCHASED OR USED OUTSIDE OF THESE TERRITORIES, OR FROM UNAUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS AND NO WARRANTY COVERAGE, SERVICE, REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WILL BE PROVIDED."

[Fungus]

Diode test is still limited to 2v, surely they could have revised this.

That's a total deal breaker for me.

Me too, thanks for the warning!

There's no way I'd spend that much on a meter that can't light up an LED. Nu uh.

There are going to be a lot of people being caught out by this.

Yep.

[floobydust]

Datasheet compare shows diode-test and ohms source is different. The MAX must have new silicon.
87V <3.9V out, 3.000V displayed vs 87V MAX <2.8V out 2.200V displayed 

[Per Hansson]

No it is just identical to the 28-II that has the exact same specifications.

[Electro Detective]

No it is just identical to the 28-II that has the exact same specifications.

Fluke marketing team on the turps, again ?
or their bosses working on 'there's one born every minute' principle ?

all this excitement about a revamp  , and no freaking LOW-Z feature to be seen,

3k resistors must be unobtanium in 2019..

[Black Phoenix]

Fluke marketing team on the turps, again ?
or their bosses working on the 'there's one born every minute' principle ?

all this excitement about a revamp  , and no freaking LOW-Z feature to be seen,

3k resistors must be unobtanium in 2019..

 

What a release...

The more I see the more I agree with this (pinned comment on joe smith Fluke 87V Robustness Tests, Part I):

The 87v is an overpriced dinosaur and flukes reluctance to update this “industry standard” to modern times is astonishing.I mean: a 9 volt battery with a wired dangling 9v clip like a 1970’s walkitalki, really?( no AA), fuses not accesable without killing your calibration sticker?, no threaded metal inserts?, no ac+dc mode?, no msec on the dutycycle?, the tilting bale doesnot properly click/fit in the rubber boot and swivels bad?, the high res mode which is not to spec and therefore must be seperatly switched to keep the rest of the meter in spec?
Its a nice reliable and stable meter but imho not worth the 600 euros i paid for it.

So instead of updating, lets rebrand something that WE already manufacture and go with this:

Fluke could easily go "87V ... 87 MAX ... 87 Pro" and no bosses would ask why all their meters suddenly cost $200 extra - it's still an 87V, they've been buying them for years.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Right around the time this thread started, I was trying to pick up a Fluke 289 so that I could get the stand-alone data logging (the 289 has 10,000+ reading storage) but the prices, even for used stuff were too high for me so I ended up buying a Keysight U1242C which meets my needs but I now realize is clearly a closer competitor with the Fluke 87 V Max. The Keysight doesn't have quite as high an accuracy on the spec sheet but can capture at 5 or 40 SPS but the Fluke looks like 4 SPS only.  The Fluke also seems to default to 6000 count mode by default with 19999 only being available in optional HiRes mode which isn't available for some modes.  The Keysight only has half the battery life (400 hrs) but features remote capture to a PC using an optional $37 IR-USB cable or on an iPhone using a $100 Bluetooth adapter (U1117A).  I put together a quick comparison table (see below).

I plan to do a mini-review on the U1242C,

[Edit] There's a typo in the table, the Fluke only goes up to 50 Meg Ohm on resistance, not 500

[Fungus]

The more I see the more I agree with this (pinned comment on joe smith Fluke 87V Robustness Tests, Part I):

The 87v is an overpriced dinosaur and flukes reluctance to update this “industry standard” to modern times is astonishing.

Looks like Fluke wants to be the next Tektronics.

[Black Phoenix]

Looks like Fluke wants to be the next Tektronics.

Well, Tektronicx is part of Fortive, that also owns Fluke Corporation, so we must say that they're family...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortive

[Fungus]

OTOH this is a good thing. At least we know we'll have a consistent baseline to use when comparing other meters against each other.

[tooki]

Yep. The feature nuts don’t understand that the value in Fluke isn’t advanced features, it’s dependability and long term interchangeability. Many industrial and military applications have defined, nearly etched in stone procedures that are certified only with specific instruments. Those customers do not want added bells and whistles, they want absolute certainty that the instrument will produce the same output as when the procedure was developed decades ago. (That’s why fluke still sells the 27 II, a non-TRMS meter, since changing to TRMS would require changing nominal values if the signal is not a flawless sine wave.)

[xavier60]

Better Hi Res performance and decent diode test specs shouldn't interfere with established operating procedures.
1 µV resolution would be very useful to me.