Author Topic: What do you guys think about these spectrum analyzers ? (Read 3654 times)

pfm · « **on:** June 19, 2019, 05:54:28 pm »

Tek 2714
Anritsu MS2601B
Advantest U3641

In terms of quality (reliability and performance) is any one of these better, or worse, than the other ? Which one would you choose out of these 3 ?
Thinking of buying one of these in used condition and trying to decide which would be least trouble free.
Thanks!

tkamiya · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2019, 12:29:15 am »

I can tell you one thing. Japanese companies are UNLIKELY to release any information on equipment they consider "unsupported". If they don't already exist on Internet somewhere, you are not going to get them. I ran into them, speaking Japanese to the highest level managers I can reach. Situation is worse if it is current/supported. Besides marketing material and user's manuals, you are not going to get ziltch.

By the way, when this happens, our company was working as sub-contractor to another part of their company. That didn't make any difference to them.

DaJMasta · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2019, 02:28:38 am »

The Anritsu has the best specs, lower noise floor, more dynamic range, lower RBW options, but I wouldn't really bother with the Tek or the Anritsu, personally. The Advantest is at least smaller, color, and more recent... not exactly a top performing unit (and similar vintage full desktop analyzers rather than that one which is advertised as a portable unit have better performance at a similar price), but the most modern build of the three and there should be plenty of parts available in the event there is an issue, those analyzers and their higher bandwidth variants are pretty plentiful on the second hand market.

What's your budget and use case, though? If portable is a actually important, Anritsu is sort of the top dog for handhelds but there are some lesser known Tek, Agilent, and other company analyzers that didn't have a lot of products and can be found for a reasonable price. If you're looking for a benchtop unit, Advantest is probably the leader for performance per dollar on the used market, and you can often get 8GHz of bandwidth for well under $1000, which is effectively unheard of for other vendors aside from older CRT and no DSP based units. If you're looking for specific signal analysis options or a particularly low frequency end, that could be relevant too.

Yes, Advantest is not likely to have much in terms of service manuals (though check KO4BB, there are some), but that doesn't mean they're impossible to service, and parts units can often be had pretty inexpensively. If I were in the market for an SA on a budget, I'd try to figure out my requirements and preferences (do I want a lot of bandwidth? Lowest noise floor? Hardware demodulation? Which is most important?), establish a budget, and see if at all possible, I could find a unit with DSP. Even a good older analog SA will have less dynamic range and a higher noise floor than a more modern SA leveraging DSP. I always prefer having something with an LCD on my bench too.... even big ones tend to be lighter and smaller. Of course the older CRT based analog analyzers are an option, and while you can get a good brand name and service manuals, but you miss out on some features, performance, and bench space.

pfm · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2019, 03:43:44 am »

Thanks for your comments.
The Advantest is the smallest, lightest, even battery operated. Its basically a portable - sort of a heavy portable and I do prefer that but not at the cost of a measurable performance compromise.

What would you say if I threw HP 8595 in the mix ?

As for my requirements - its mostly for hobby and troubleshooting purposes. Noise and interference in Audio, video, power supplies, and for some RF (ham) use. I'd say noise floor and harmonics (distortion) performance would be most important for me. I dont need high RF range into several Ghz. Even 1 Ghz is enough, I may be tempted to get into 2.4Ghz band but not necessary. But I do need low range - 50Khz is the minimum and lower is better.

tautech · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2019, 04:39:55 am »

Budget ?

pfm · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2019, 05:16:01 am »

$350-450

tautech · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2019, 05:37:29 am »

Quote from: pfm on June 21, 2019, 05:16:01 am

$350-450

That should be enough to buy you the cables, attenuators, DC block and loads.

Happy hunting.

RFDUK · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2019, 07:33:16 am »

TEK 2710 /14 was full of bugs 40 years ago when new and I suspect not many sold. Had one at work and it was worse than useless. For me definitely to be avoided.

Old and cheap Japanese much better proposition and lower risk, but ....

For a bottom end budget it's got to be the HP859X series by a country mile.

Great build quality and relatively reliable. Loads about, plenty of cheap parts to service them if required.

pfm · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2019, 06:37:41 pm »

The 2714 is really that old ?? I thought it was built in the late 90s/early 2000s ?
What kind of bugs ? I'd hope they would have release some firmware updates in its lifetime to fix some of it.

Stray Electron · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2019, 07:05:29 pm »

I can't say about the others but I currently have two Anritsu 2601s and I like them. They're both compact and also very reliable. One of them sat outside in the rain for about 6 months before I got it and yet it still worked fine. I have both the Service manual and the operator's manual for the 2601 A/J models. If you can't find them and you need them send me a PM and I'll send you copies.

YMMV.

RFDUK said :For a bottom end budget it's got to be the HP859X series by a country mile.

Great build quality and relatively reliable. Loads about, plenty of cheap parts to service them if required.

I completely agree. Much better manuals. Lots of user support. Used and parts units are wifely available, etc. However I got good deals on my Anritsus and I have two of them and a couple of the HPs but the Anritsus are still my goto SAs. I LIKE the Anritsus but the HPs are much more maintainable and I can repair them and can probably keep them running indefinitely.

Stray Electron · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2019, 07:07:21 pm »

Quote from: pfm on June 19, 2019, 05:54:28 pm

which would be least trouble free.

the LEAST trouble free?

Electro Fan · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2019, 07:42:20 pm »

Stray Electron · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2019, 12:09:46 am »

Very FEW of the used SAs that I've looked at over the years actually worked. Most showed a display but had burnt out front ends and couldn't detect a signal. You REALLY need to check them out in person and also need to know what you're doing or you're going to get burnt. Frankly I'd be very suspicious of any SA that they're only asking $300 to $400 for.

Go and closely read the descriptions of the SAs that are for sale on Ebay. MOST of them include lengthy disclaimers about the actual operational condition.

0culus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2019, 03:42:55 am »

I know of a trustworthy seller who deals almost exclusively in HP 8568 and 8566 SAs. I bought my 8568B and 8566A from him. PM me with an email address and I can connect you if you're interested in going that route.

tggzzz · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2019, 07:41:51 am »

Quote from: Stray Electron on June 22, 2019, 12:09:46 am

Very FEW of the used SAs that I've looked at over the years actually worked. Most showed a display but had burnt out front ends and couldn't detect a signal. You REALLY need to check them out in person and also need to know what you're doing or you're going to get burnt. Frankly I'd be very suspicious of any SA that they're only asking $300 to $400 for.

Go and closely read the descriptions of the SAs that are for sale on Ebay. MOST of them include lengthy disclaimers about the actual operational condition.

I definitely like to see a picture showing a signal, even if it is only the calibration output signal.

Having said that, I bought a Tek492 from someone on this forum who said it worked - and I did see it workign when I picked it up in person. I also bought an HP8562 sight unseen from a local auction - it too worked. When I go there someone told me it was a company bankruptcy auction; wish I'd bought more!.

But I didn't buy an awful lot of SAs!

nctnico · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2019, 10:25:33 am »

Quote from: RFDUK on June 21, 2019, 07:33:16 am

TEK 2710 /14 was full of bugs 40 years ago when new and I suspect not many sold. Had one at work and it was worse than useless. For me definitely to be avoided.

Not just that but these TEK SAs also have programmable logic devices which do fail.

The Anritsu and Advantest SAs are the better choice. Most of the common problems are related to electrolytic capacitors which are easy to replace (but make sure to use low ESR types).

RFDUK · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2019, 03:53:20 pm »

Quote from: pfm on June 21, 2019, 06:37:41 pm

The 2714 is really that old ?? I thought it was built in the late 90s/early 2000s ?
What kind of bugs ? I'd hope they would have release some firmware updates in its lifetime to fix some of it.

To be fair my experience was of the 2710 introduced in 1986. The 2714 was a facelift a few years later to get rid of the micky mouse membrane keys on the 2710.

Bugs I recall related to inconsistent amplitude results on the screen, PLL going out of lock, freezes, lack of response to front panel inputs, SLOW response to user input etc etc. The prerequisite for shipping an instrument in this class was for the measurements to have integrity.

Firmware updates in 1986 were factory return situations. So once you've shipped 100's of instruments that fall over you're in deep trouble with the product.

RFDUK · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2019, 04:26:04 pm »

Quote from: Stray Electron on June 22, 2019, 12:09:46 am

Very FEW of the used SAs that I've looked at over the years actually worked. Most showed a display but had burnt out front ends and couldn't detect a signal. You REALLY need to check them out in person and also need to know what you're doing or you're going to get burnt. Frankly I'd be very suspicious of any SA that they're only asking $300 to $400 for.

Go and closely read the descriptions of the SAs that are for sale on Ebay. MOST of them include lengthy disclaimers about the actual operational condition.

Try before you buy definitely if possible and agree $400 is probably too low, but a basic HP859X seems to be getting closer all of the time.

The numbers available on ebay are testament to how HP cleaned up in the basic portable spectrum analyser market in the later 80's and 90's. Those new sale numbers of years ago reflect the value and quality of the offering. As with other instrument categories in those decades, HP were offering superior instruments and options, with excellent world wide support.

In defense of old HP kit on ebay I'm much more positive, but it does take quite a lot of time to check stuff out and wait patiently for the right box. If you're not happy to take a risk there are specialist dealers on ebay with excellent reputations (feedback) who for a little more money give you a warranty.

I know it's a personal preference, but HP kit of 15 to 30 years old stands head and shoulders above other manufacturers in reliability, serviceability and parts availability.

If maintaining the instrument isn't for you then for a basic 2 GHz analyser a Siglent SSA with 3 year warranty is the stand out instrument available today

Siglent and Rigol SA offerings must take quite a lot of the credit for today's secondhand HP859X prices

pfm · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2019, 06:45:20 pm »

What about any USB pc based alternatives ? I dont need high Ghz freq range but do need low freq range - 50Khz or lower.
-90db dynamic range would be good to have. Anything exists in the sub-$500 range ?

Performa01 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2019, 07:28:44 pm »

Quote from: pfm on June 22, 2019, 06:45:20 pm

What about any USB pc based alternatives ? I dont need high Ghz freq range but do need low freq range - 50Khz or lower.
-90db dynamic range would be good to have. Anything exists in the sub-$500 range ?

I would have wholeheartedly recommended the Signal Hound USB-SA44B, which covers 1Hz to 4.4GHz, but unfortunately it is about twice your budget. If you want a tracking generator, this is an extra device which costs about two thirds of the SA itself, but covers 10Hz to 4.4GHz.

I know you don't need such high frequencies, but there is no cheaper version with less frequency coverage available.

For universal and safe operation, you still need some accessories, like a DC-block and some inline attenuators, together with SMA cables and adaptors.

I use the combination SA44B + TG44A for many years now and very happy with it - it can compete with older even high end gear in quite some aspects.

cncjerry · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2019, 02:05:43 am »

The tek 2714, 2715 (I think was the other) are known to have front-end issues that cant be repaired. I think the 492 is the other that has hybrid modules that fail. If I remember correctly, one of the 271x has 75ohm front end and was made for cable tv. I have two HP 8568b's and an 8566b. I'm thinking of selling one of the 8568s as they take up so much room and are really heavy. It has both 50 and 75ohm inputs which was a little unusual and I thought I would use the 75ohm input but never did. I don't mean to broadcast this here; just pointing out that the major drawback of this model is the size and weight. I can't even set one of them up in my lab as the cabinet it is on won't support it. The other thing you have to watch for if you go the HP 8568 route is some units don't have the cables which could cost $150 by themselves. Someone pointed out about terminators, adapters, etc. and yes, you will end up spending a small fortune on them over time.

If you are in the SF bay area, keep your eye on craigs list as they show up there from time to time. I bought all three of mine on there.

Jerry

0culus · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2019, 02:16:09 am »

With respect to the cables for 68a/b and 66a/b spectrum analyzers, you can make one of the cables yourself (it's just some coax in a bundle). The other cable you can't make yourself and a lot of them out there are broken because one end has fragile plastic in it.

pfm · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2019, 01:13:05 am »

just wanted to give you all an update - I ended up getting the Advantest U3641. I got it for $300. The only issue it has is screen flicker when the lcd is tilted up (more on that in another thread) but other than that it works fine.
There was a 8495E for ~$450 that I passed on because the weight was too much for my purpose and the Advantest is practically portable in comparison, and with equally good specs, plus max 50VDC at input is a bonus to have!
The Tek 2714s and the Anritsu were going for even lower but I decided in favor of Advantest.
Thanks for everyone's feedback on this subject!


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Author Topic: What do you guys think about these spectrum analyzers ? (Read 3654 times)

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