Oscilloscope for an electronics learner

[nctnico]

Congrats on the purchase, I hope it does everything you need. Maybe we should have upped your budget further and gone straight to a Keysight. 

I'd have got an R&S if I was going to spend much more, but whatever.

I wouldn't because it is an utterly stupid thing to do. The HMO1222 (2 channels 200MHz) including decoding sets you back over $3000 at Tequipment.

Huh?

http://www.tequipment.net/Rohde-&-Schwarz/HMO-1222/Digital-Oscilloscopes/

Price: $1,830
Where: At Tequipment.

Now add the decoding options to the price 
The same goes in lesser extend for the Keysight scopes. The value for money just isn't there in the 50MHz to 200MHz range primarily due to the extremely short memory in the Keysight scopes. BTW if you have the cash to spend then Lecroy's Wavesurfer 3000 is a much better deal than what Keysight has to offer in the >200MHz segment.

[Fungus]

Now add the decoding options to the price 

I wouldn't want CAN bus decoding, so....

Still, serial bus is extra so call it $2000. Still nowhere near $3000.

[nctnico]

Now add the decoding options to the price 

I wouldn't want CAN bus decoding, so....

Still, serial bus is extra so call it $2000. Still nowhere near $3000.

That doesn't matter. You need to compare equivalent functionality and besides that you can't cherry pick the most expensive option from the equation to make the point you are attempting to make more favourable. If you don't need any decoding options then there is also the much cheaper GW Instek GDS1000B series. Either way the R&S HMO series is just way overpriced. Tequipment.net has no R&S scopes in stock at all so it seems they don't sell very wel either.

[Fungus]

Either way the R&S HMO series is just way overpriced.

So are Mercedes Benz cars, designer jeans, etc., but they sell plenty...

If I was rich I wouldn't choose a GW-Instek. Not a chance.

[rsjsouza]

Congratulations on the purchase! I followed this thread on the sidelines and commend you for turning on your notch filter and getting useful information among the noise (catfights).

As someone else pointed out, if time permits please post your first impressions about the Instek.

[System Error Message]

I definitely will. The first thing i want to measure is how stable some of the PSUs i have are.

I've visited Rohde and shwarze before, seen a van they sell to govt for tracking pirate radio, should've asked them if i could bring home a scope.

Tequipment wasnt the only place i look, I look at as many places as possible to compare prices, at least 10 different online stores.

[tggzzz]

Congratulations on the purchase! I followed this thread on the sidelines and commend you for turning on your notch filter and getting useful information among the noise (catfights).

While I certainly agree that too many statements are too absolutist to the point of being unbalanced, there is useful information in most of them. But I agree that a narrowband bandpass filter is necessary to select only the points that are relevant at this time.

Later the OP might find the other points helpful in different circumstances.

[Fungus]

Congratulations on the purchase! I followed this thread on the sidelines and commend you for turning on your notch filter and getting useful information among the noise (catfights).

Some of the resident Rigol-Bashers were absent this time, that helped too.

[tggzzz]

Congratulations on the purchase! I followed this thread on the sidelines and commend you for turning on your notch filter and getting useful information among the noise (catfights).

Some of the resident Rigol-Bashers were absent this time, that helped too.

"Rigol-bashers" are a necessary counterbalance to "Rigol-shills", and vice-versa. Everything is gray, there is no black and white

[wraper]

Yes, but GW-Instek scopes look like toys

I have DS2000 and GDS2000E standing nearby, and what looks and feels like a toy is Rigol.

[ebastler]

Some of the resident Rigol-Bashers were absent this time, that helped too.

I have DS2000 and GDS2000E standing nearby, and what looks and feels like a toy is Rigol.

Hey, you made it to this thread just in time! 

[System Error Message]

Why would an oscilloscope looking and feeling like a toy be an issue? Its meant to be played with.

[rstofer]

Why would an oscilloscope looking and feeling like a toy be an issue? Its meant to be played with.

In the old days, quality was bought by the pound.  The heavier the scope, the better the quality/features/bandwidth, etc.  More weight was good!
Now it's all done with a couple of DACs and an FPGA plus a display.  Of course it looks and feels like something from Mattel.

Actually, the lack of weight is a problem.  When I try to push the power button on my DS1054Z, the unit slides across the bench.  It takes two hands to turn it on or off.  That is NOT a problem with my Tektronix 485 sitting upright on the floor.  That scope is heavy enough to sit anywhere it wants!

[TheSteve]

Simple solution - get yourself some drawer/shelf liner. Even my Keysight DSOX3014A slides easily on a shelf. A couple pieces of the liner under the feet and I can add/remove probes etc without it moving.

[nctnico]

Sliding can be a problem in general. I stuck extra rubber feet on several pieces of my equipment to prevent it from sliding.

[rsjsouza]

Some of the resident Rigol-Bashers were absent this time, that helped too.

I have DS2000 and GDS2000E standing nearby, and what looks and feels like a toy is Rigol.

Hey, you made it to this thread just in time! 

Quick! Let's turn on the notch filters again! 

Why would an oscilloscope looking and feeling like a toy be an issue? Its meant to be played with.

I don't dislike Instek's looks. As I stated in Dave's teardown thread, the aspect I like is they don't multiplex controls like other brands. Form does not trump function.

It's like the old adage: if "looks" is the main criticism against your test equipment, you can live in peace.

[System Error Message]

well i know how you feel about metal and weight. The heavier it is the more "real" it feels . Thats why a lot of cheap chinese counterfeit products fill their product with lead, powder and other sort of materials. Take a look inside an ultrafire battery for example.

[Fungus]

Some of the resident Rigol-Bashers were absent this time, that helped too.

Yes, but GW-Instek scopes look like toys

I have DS2000 and GDS2000E standing nearby, and what looks and feels like a toy is Rigol.

Where were you? We missed you!

You'll be very relieved to know that the OP bought a GDS2000E at a very good price - tequipment seems to be dumping that model.

[Fungus]

well i know how you feel about metal and weight. The heavier it is the more "real" it feels . Thats why a lot of cheap chinese counterfeit products fill their product with lead, powder and other sort of materials. Take a look inside an ultrafire battery for example.

Yeah, but that's because they didn't put any actual "battery" inside them. An empty case would feel very wrong.

PS: Rigol build quality is fine. "Pleasant surprise" is how I'd describe the overall feel.

[System Error Message]

My oscilloscope just arrived, Tequipment sure has a funny way of packaging by placing it within 3 boxes.

Scope performance is really nice, at 1ms timebase at 200Mhz i get the full spec of 1GSa/s and 10M, any longer and only the sampling rate halves. It could definitely use more apps and software but i havent managed to update the firmware yet. This scope is very sensitive, what i thought the scope was very noisy but currently until i move into a much bigger room i have so many electronics around such as my wifi AP sitting next to it, putting the probes near the back of my monitors or even near the bench PSU showed similar AC like noise. This is down at 1mV. It is also nice that i can get the scope down to 1ns timebase. USB and ethernet work the way i want them to although i cant set a proxy but at least i can force it using my router.

I didnt have trouble with the interface, i could instantly access and use it without reading the manual and not having used a scope before. I guess some of you are too used to certain interfaces.

One thing i really wish they would add is NTP and locale setting as it set itself to china/taiwan's time. Once i move in July i will do a review on this as i would have a much bigger room, more space and perhaps set up a faraday cage.

quite impressed with the scope and it even has DMM functionality but it seems to measure differently than my handheld crappy DMM. Measuring 24.5V at bench PSU display during load, my DMM showed 24.3V, my router being powered by it showed 24.1V (putting DMM on cables showed a 0.1-0.2V loss). putting the oscilloscope showed around 23.8V at the output.

Edit: thanks Tequipment for the extra boxes, i now have more boxes i need for moving.

[rstofer]

quite impressed with the scope and it even has DMM functionality but it seems to measure differently than my handheld crappy DMM. Measuring 24.5V at bench PSU display during load, my DMM showed 24.3V, my router being powered by it showed 24.1V (putting DMM on cables showed a 0.1-0.2V loss). putting the oscilloscope showed around 23.8V at the output,

So, you are off by 0.7V at 24.5V or 3%.  The Gain Accuracy spec is 3% for signals >= 10 mV.  And that's 3% of full scale, not 3% of the reading.  Your scope seems fine!

In my view, scopes are 'qualitative' instruments, not 'quantitative'.  Admittedly that is from an analog scope point of view but I trust my DMM measurements a lot more than those from my DSO.

[System Error Message]

that was using the DVM app on the scope. Im not sure if i connected it right because i only connected the probe to the + and didnt connect the ground to negative.

[tautech]

One thing i really wish they would add is NTP and locale setting as it set itself to china/taiwan's time.

Just set the RTC to your local time.

[nctnico]

that was using the DVM app on the scope. Im not sure if i connected it right because i only connected the probe to the + and didnt connect the ground to negative.

You have to connect ground to negative but always make sure you don't make a short through the oscilloscope. All the BNC connectors' outer shells are connected together and mains ground.

[System Error Message]

I'll give it a try again after i move. Considering i am currently in student flats its likely ground will always have something going on that will throw off readings.