Metcal CV-510 Soldering Station

[stenbror]

I just had to try one. Even though i already have JBC, Pace, Quick, TS80, TS100 and a lot of cheep chinese cheap stations.

I really like the new Metcal unit.

[stenbror]

Just got the fume extractor too. Metcal BVX-101

[stenbror]

Promo kit for High Performance soldering fromMetcal for CV systems. I will check if CV-500 power unit can drive it or if i need to buy a CV-5200 power unit later.

[thm_w]

Any reason you bought this "connection validation" one instead of a normal say mx5000/5200 with higher output power?
It seems to be more geared for production work, but maybe it has other uses.

How loud is the fume extractor (stated 55dB)?


BTW this thread can move here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/

[Shock]

Hey someone else has two Pace ADS200s. I assume you are going to pickup some MT200 tweezers as well? They are so utilitarian sitting next to the JBC and Metcal hehe.

I'm another person who would have preferred the MX5200 system over the CV510. I've learned over time the more stuff you have the more easily and cheaply you want to be able to repair it. Superfluous features just means more stuff that never gets used and more things that break.

Do you regret buying all those Quick stations? The plastic gives off such a cheap vibe. I just want to throw them all out for you, well... aside from the Quick 861DW. I'll throw out all your T12 stations as well don't let me into your workshop heheh.

[Someone]

Some comparisons between the high power HCV and regular STTC cartridges will be interesting. Never had a problem soldering to solid sheet, more power seems excessive?

[Cubdriver]

Wow - and I thought I was bad getting an MX 5200 when I have a Weller WD 1002.  That's quite the collection of soldering apparati you have there!

-Pat

[stenbror]

Hi

I choose CV510 instead of MX-5210 for several reasons.

I have powerfull Pace and JBC from before and just wanted to test Metcal and CV was the newer offerings and i didnt feel like paying additional 300 dollar for 40wats more. JBC is 130w and my Pace has 120w.

I am also sucking at soldering, so any help with when to move the iron away is great. I am a software guy by profession.

[Shock]

The marketing implies it's set temp soldering, "recovers to temp" soldering station would be more accurate just like any other station, just not temp adjustable. They also imply it's for teaching people and no inspection is required.

There's more to soldering a joint than soak/dwell time (waiting for a light) as well as many ways to get defects that the light won't warn you about, so inspection is always required. Basic soldering however only takes about 10 mins to learn and a bit longer to have bad habits corrected depending how closely you watch.

[JDubU]

...
I am also sucking at soldering, so any help with when to move the iron away is great. I am a software guy by profession.

Two words:  MORE FLUX!

[stenbror]

CV-510 Solder station is not able to drive High Performance tips, just standard tips. You need a CV-5200 station. Too bad.

[Shock]

I guess too late but yes you should check station/handpiece power and compatibility on any handpiece you buy. It happens all the time in electronics though there will be always something that slips under the radar or gets over ordered or not used.

Just a bit on testing, when you test the systems you will think the JBC micro system is amazing until you encounter something that takes more than a couple of seconds to solder. Which is a warning sign to check tip temp or mass (remembering to use a reasonable sized tip for the job). So while micro systems seem super fast it's because they have comparatively no mass to heat up. They are not necessarily better or even necessary at all. Mini/slim soldering handpieces and tweezers can be more versatile as long as they have a range of smd micro tips, rework tips and the regular and heavy tips. Because you can then have power and precision, power and mass and power and a full tip complement.

So when you compare the higher power stations, a slight difference in tip mass can make a large difference in "apparent" performance and it's easy to be fooled. Both Metcal and Pace are designed not to overshoot, so their stations ramp up in temp fast then slow the curve as they approach set temp. The JBC C245 will likely overshoot and may even tell you it has reached set temp while still delivering power, this isn't something to be too concerned about, just don't trust the software. Being a software dev you know that the software experience is tweaked for the users happiness.

For me most imported is the general recovery speed which is the ramp angle of temp vs time (excluding the settling time). There is no such thing as a tip heating to 350C and landing perfectly on temp in 2 seconds. Again don't trust the software or charts. I prefer no overshooting as when you are soldering low mass and changing soldering target often the overshooting fluctuates. I don't want to solder alternate pins then come back and solder the even pins and be 20-30C high on an already warmed PCB. At the opposite end, when you are soldering a high mass joint at room temp with a large pad and ground plane on multi layer board you don't care about overshoot. That tip may never get back to temp until you lift it.

Don't forget about calibration on comparisons and measuring the tip temp at the pcb reveals more than measuring it on the tip thermometer. Other than that, larger tips will naturally take longer to heat than smaller tips and if you can find a magic formula to work out their mass by cooling the tips without power and measuring them in a controlled fashion, or by using a thermal well with some kind of tip junction to measure performance, plus accurately measure the power dissipation through the handpiece rather than the station, then.... Congrats you are on the road to enlightenment! Much more scientific than reading the display.

[stenbror]

I am stupid, i guess, but i ordered and got an Metcal CV5200 Power unit also. So now i have two Metcal units too.....

I will post an comparison between the 40W and 80W unit later, since i have homeoffice the next weeks anyways. No contact with other people as a precaution against human malware...... I dont have it... yet! 

[stenbror]

[Shock]

Congrats on the new station. I wouldn't say stupid, superfluous is probably a better word. Stupid would be buying more Chinese stations .

Just so you are aware you need an external air compressor to use the Metcal CV-H5-DSHP desoldering gun. You also need Metcals Airline kit and any additional hoses or fittings, plus a range of tips (as desoldering tips are size dependent). This is before you get into the small consumables like filters. Prepare to bleed money if you go down that route especially if you want to run different tip temps.

[Reckless]

My coworkers got the CV-5200 recently and liking it alot.  We are invested in sp200 with aftermarket tips.  Very cheap, each station ran me $50.  But the CV high power tips are much faster than our 30W.  I'm trying to set it up with our robot with vision to do automatic soldering with validation.  Not sure if it will be too complex.  I would love to hear your thoughts after a year of use.