Velleman WFS210 wireless oscilloscope for only £20 !

[Mr. Scram]

So the intention  was or is to open up the software for the hacking community:

https://youtu.be/qEqWtKGJhFQ

Yeah, I saw that clip too. It was obviously the intention to throw a device out there with barely functional software, in the hopes that the community would run with it. It might have, if the thing would have been half the price or less. It's not a really nice business practice regardless.

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the vid, R_G_B_. Publishing the protocol is a good start. It sounds like the firmware also needs help, but the platform isn't quite that open (yet?).

[Mr. Scram]

Thanks for the vid, R_G_B_. Publishing the protocol is a good start. It sounds like the firmware also needs help, but the platform isn't quite that open (yet?).

I looks like Velleman is dumping the remaining devices cheaply, probably to clear inventory, so there appears to be little incentive to release the firmware code. Opening up the protocol and apps was an attempt to seduce the community into development.

[nickds1]

The firmware is also open

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App?files=1

That's only the IOS and Android client applications, not the firmware. The box itself is closed.

[Bicurico]

Truth is, I don't *need* such a device, but I haven't had courage to participate in the TEA group, either...

Regards,
Vitor

C'mon Victor, don't be a chicken. 
We'd love for you to share some pics of your goodies. 

 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1312020/#msg1312020

[tszaboo]

Hey, it is only 20 GBP for one. Places one in Amazon basket. Places another 80 GBP other stuff in Amazon basket. Yes, I totally need those things, and I'm a perfectly reasonable guy, who doesnt do impulse purchases.
Especially the 36 pound replacement ear pads for my sennheiser headphone.

[bitseeker]

Sounds like a good shopping day, NANDBlog.

[b_force]

So the intention  was or is to open up the software for the hacking community:

https://youtu.be/qEqWtKGJhFQ

Velleman best known for kits?
They mean, Velleman is best known for re-branding stuff and ask 3-6 times the price for it, lol

Anyway, I don't know all the functions of this thing yet, but it would work great for a tracer (also for the old tube fanatics) or general audio stuff.
10Mhz is a bit limited, but for some easy probing around, just fine.
(the "more than enough' comment, was a little bit like  , eeehm no!)
Hopefully more companies follow the idea of open source parts.
A lot of the times the hardware is pretty decent, but only the software is such a shame.
So, definitely interesting for the price.

edit:
In the Velleman shop it's only 99 bucks? 
https://www.vellemanstore.com/en/velleman-wfs210-wlan-digital-storage-oscilloscope

[Howardlong]

I bought one of these a couple of years back.

To say it’s steaming pile of turd is being generous.

I was going to do a video review of it to show how shit it is, but thought better of it than to waste my time.

Honestly, I wouldn’t waste your time, it’ll sit like mine has in its box for years to come taking up drawer space.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digilent-analog-discovery-or-budget-oscilloscope/msg665716/#msg665716

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

Maplins still have them at £20 so have purchased one for a play with.
It may sit in a draw afterwards but you never know.....

Cheers

[lukier]

To say it’s steaming pile of turd is being generous.

I was going to do a video review of it to show how shit it is, but thought better of it than to waste my time.

Honestly, I wouldn’t waste your time, it’ll sit like mine has in its box for years to come taking up drawer space.

I ordered one and what you've said is my major worry - that it is so bad it makes it completely unusable.

I guess rewriting the FW is an option, the PCB cannot be very difficult to reverse engineer. Unfortunately, I've never used PICs (and dsPICs), have no tools at all. Wish they based this gadget on STM32 or something similar.

[Fraser]

A new firmware was loaded since initial release. There are instructions on the Velleman web site for installing the latest firmware but you need a Pickit programmer to install it ! Fortunately I have some of those already, so if mine needs updating , I can do it.

The unit may indeed be no good. If so..... back it will go to Maplin. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. At £20 it was worth taking a look.

Fraser

[Specmaster]

I too have purchased one of these, worth a look, not too sure how good it is or if it will be used beyond initial testing, already got 4 working scopes and 2 undergoing repairs but I thought it was a novelty having a larger screen and it might make a reasonable DVM, who knows. Not sure if its returnable though unless its faulty. Lets wait and see how long it takes to arrive from Maplins, normally I get stuff the next day.

[Fraser]

Maplin are pretty good on the returns front.

The auction page specifies a 30 day no quibble returns policy. I will download the software etc rather than breaking any seals on the supplied CD (if there is one provided). That avoids the exception regarding the use of software that is sealed.

In any case, Maplin are a commercial Retailer and subject to the usual rules unless specifically stated in the auction that the unit is without warranty or returns. If it proves 'not fit for purpose' it can be returned.

I have to wonder if the software issues have caused such a headache for a Maplin that they decided to ditch their warehouse stock via the outlet shop.

£20 does not go far in the UK these days so, for me, it is worth my time taking a look at the unit in case it offers a very cheap wireless DSO to DVM. Like many wireless devices designed for Android, there can be MANY compatibility issues as the hosts can vary greatly.

The good news is that Velleman still seem to be developing firmware and apps to resolve the issues.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The unit has just arrived.

I have inspected it and all looks to be new and in good order. I have now placed it on charge. It needs a USB charger rated at 500mA or more.

There is no software or user manual provided in the box so no worries about breaking a software seals if intending to return the unit. You do get a quick start guide and a USB to Mini (not Micro) USB cable.

Scary thing was after plugging it into a charger, not only did the charge led light, but also an exclamation mark ! I thought it was telling me there was a fault. After reading the downloaded manual I see that it is just warning that the USB earth and BNC earths may be at different potentials.

I would have thought that this 'reminder LED should be on the 'front' panel adjacent to the BNC connectors so it can easily be seen.

Anyway, once charged, I will test it on my Tesco HUDL, my Win7 laptop and maybe on my iPad Air 2.

Fraser

[Avacee]

Mine arrived this morning and took about 6 hours to charge.
First thoughts are similar to Fraser's in the post above.

Calling the software a steaming pile of manure is insulting the manure.
Even without connecting to the device the software (downloaded from Velleman's website) refreshes at 60FPS.
On my steam age i5-2500K it averages 31% CPU. On my (windows+android) tablets it simply drains the battery - don't have an iWhatever.

The windows software doesn't let you change the trigger level. The manual says to move a slider but this simply moves GND up/down the screen.
The android software does let you change the trigger level.

It creates a HotSpot so you connect to it directly rather than connecting it to your existing network. One of those £3 usb wifi connected to it no problem at 24Mb.
It uses 192.168.1.x - so if your existing wifi network uses this you'll have fun as windows10 tries to work out which wifi network you want to use. No problem for me as my existing network uses 192.168.0.x

Once connected it streams the data reliably enough but the software display it CRAP. Even with a trigger set on a steady signal (Tri,Squ,Sine) it flickers left+right to make it unreadable at timers. No way is this anywhere near 10Mhz.

The 2nd channel has a fair bit of feedthrough (is that the technical term?) - will post a picture later but late for dinner at my sisters.
It's hard to determine what the quality of the hardware is like when the software is so unusable.

I'll let others with far more experience break it down but this newbs first thought are that it's a decent enough bit of kit for the price for price for simple usage that's badly badly badly let down by worthless software.
Looking at the protocol document, github and wiresharking it better software shouldn't be too hard and going to spend a few hours over the weekend seeing what I can improve.

[Specmaster]

Oh dear, that does not sound too good, I'm thinking there will be loads handed back then.

[Fraser]

Thanks Avocee,

I have just tested my unit and was expecting issues with Wi-Fi connectivity.

It was an anti-climax event. The HUDL tablet connected to the WFS210 and it worked fine.

I set the vertical scale to 5mV to see how much noise is present with no inputs to the BNC  connectors. I was pleasantly surprised with the noise levels displayed.

I have yet to test the unit with a signal generator, but will do later.

I have played with the iOS software in demo mode and it certainly could do with some improvement. 
I noticed that the demo sine waves seemed to change in phase relationship as the vertical position was adjusted..... weird !

I was disappointed to not see a DSO/DVM option in the software. I hoped I would be able to select a dedicated DVM mode as I have found on other software for USB scopes.

I am reserving judgement on the unit until it has had a thorough shake-down. Sadly it could be another example of decent enough hardware let down by software.

The unit is currently connected to my HUDL in a link reliability test to see if the unit loses connection or hangs over the next hour or so. Both the WFS210 unit and the HUDL are running off external power.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

The 2nd channel has a fair bit of feedthrough (is that the technical term?) - will post a picture later

Crosstalk, where the signal on one channel appears on another? If it's sufficiently attenuated it'll probably be OK.

[Fraser]

I just did a quick 10 minute test of the WFS210 with a function generator.......

Oh what a pity  This unit could so easily be very good..... but boy does it have issues !

Fellow buyers of this unit... I think you may be returning them for a refund.

The very first time I tried connecting the unit to my HUDL it connected fine. Since then it has put up quite a fight. I will take you through a typical Wi-Fi connection experience...

1. Switch on WFS210 - unit boots and flashes connect LED
2. Wait for WFS210 to appear on Wi-Fi nodes on the Tablet
3. Select WFS210 node and wait for 'connected' to appear on tablet
4. Look at WFS210 to see if Link established LED is lit .... it is not
5. Start the WFS210 APP. APP starts but claims no WFS210 and goes to demo mode
6. Go into APP settings and deselect Demo tick box. Return to APP main screen.
7. The APP reports no WFS210 and goes into DEMO mode again.
8. Go back into the settings menu and deselect the Demo mode
9. Return to main screen and DEMO mode will appear again. But sometims also an IP address
Appears at the bottom of the screen.
10. Keep going round the loop deselecting demo mode and returning to the main screen until the APP eventually sees the WFS210 and the APP begins working. The link LED is also now illuminated.
11. Both input Channels are OFF by default. Select a channel and either manually or Auto set the timebase and voltage range.


Yes it is that much hassle. It appears that even though the tablet sees the WFS210, the APP does not !
Eventually it sees the unit and we can progress. Very annoying though.

A quick test using a function generator proved that the trigger operates and that the frequency and amplitude readings are accurate. Note that the amplitude measurement feature defaults to DC volts ! A DSO tends to be an AC display device and they go and default to a DC measurement mode ! Once you select P-P or RMS, all is well.

So far I have found the unit to be frustrating to use 

The APP may look quite 'pretty' but it appears to be very poorly written and unreliable at finding the WFS210. Such a pity as the idea behind the unit is sound. The hardware looks reasonable, but the software.... oh the software 

What idiot places a probe compensation signal contact on the underside of the case, rather than on the easily accessible front panel ? Oh and what idiot places the proble compensation contact hole adjacent to the units SSID reset button hole ! Daft buggers !

Do I keep it or send it back...... I will spend some more time with the unit but if things do not improve, it's useless and infuriating to use.

How on earth did this thing get released from Velleman R&D in its current state ? It's a joke.

Oh, in case anyone is trying to use Win 10 on a PC with the WFS210, I understand it is not compatible.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Fraser, at #4 the Link established LED is not lit. Does it light before the app is able to see it or only after the app has successfully connected? I'm curious if the firmware might just take a long time to become ready for full operation after a cold boot.

[Fraser]

Bitseeker,

I monitored the behaviour of the link LED during my test. It's not good news.

The Wi-Fi active LED flashes and I would expect it to stop flashing and the link LED to light once the Tablet states it has established the Wi-Fi link is connected. However the Wi-Fi Available LED keeps flashing after I see 'connected' on the tablet.

It appears that the APP looks for the WFS210 at an IP Address and if found, the Link LED lights and the Wi-Fi available LED lights solid.

Once the WFS210 is displaying an image and triggered, the data LED lights and flickers to represent data flow.

It seems like the APP is either too quick to go into DEMO mode before getting what it wants from the WFS210 ( to show it present) , or the WFS210 is not negotiating an IP address with the tablet reliably.

I considered using my tablets a USB OTG port for direct connection to the scope but the APP stupidly does not support such direct connectivity.

I shall test the PC software today. First impressions are not good. No Y shift, as already stated. TWO independent triggers that can cause a false phase shift in the displayed waveforms and  a less gain great Looking GUI. Frankly it's very poor.

Fraser

[djos]

Have you updated the firmware to the latest? Apparently it fixes issues with iPad's and possibly others too.

[Fraser]

Djos,

No not yet.

From what a I can find out, the newer firmware was purely a fix for iOS10 and users reported that it still did not work ! Velleman make no claim of any bug fixes for anything else. Apparently the iOS bug fix was just a change of the IP address used as iOS10 did not like the one that Velleman originally used.

There are also reports that installing the iOS10 firmware bricked some units completely !

Having to use a PicKit programmer to update the units firmware via direct connection to the PCB is archaic and indicative of where Velleman need to up their game. The HPS140i is the same. No firmware update over USB.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some good news at last.

I just tested the WFS210 with my HP Elitebook 2170P running Win7 and it connected both quickly and reliably over Wi-Fi. You just need to select Wi-Fi connection and provide the IP address of the WFS210 from the drop down menu. In my case it was 169.254.1.1. Worked instantly and flawlessly 

I the. Tried direct connection via USB cable. Just select USB connection and the Com port is displayed. Then connect. Again this worked fine.

As to the performance of the software itself....... we shall see later.

It would appear that the Wi-Fi module and firmware in the WFS210 is working OK and that it is the Androud App on a tablet that is having issues recognising theunit and its IP address. More investigation on that later.

If the unit is useful and reliable on my laptop, I will keep it as my lab contains mainly laptops anyway 

As for iOS10 compatibility.... I am not really that fussed about it as I do not intend to use my iPad with the unit anyway.

Fraser