SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware

[eTobey]

Steps to reproduce the grid alignement error (started from factory default):

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Not giving details about a signal is deliberatly, because its irrelevant. 

[ebastler]

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Thanks for the clear step-by-step instructions. I can reproduce the effect now that you mentioned the "moving axis labels" mode -- I don't think that was ever spcified before, and it's a mode I had never used.

Yes, that looks like a glitch in the UI: The grid lines and axis label should shift in sync, but do move at a slightly different rate. Not something that hurst me personally, since I'd rather use the fixed label and grid positions anyway. But that display mode nust have its uses, so it should work correctly.

[eTobey]

I now failed to reproduce the frequency measure issue with a 1.5MHz fixed frequency. It does show "***" as i would expect it. I dont know what the difference here exactly is.

I do not investigate this issue further for now, because no one else really tries to help (actually use the scope). Everyone is just telling me i am an idiot. Keep this bug then and happly spend hours or work, because you got confused by such "issues". 

I will now pack my bags for my holidays. 

I can answer while on my trip down the Côte d’Azur and to spain, but i will have no access to my scope for 3 months then! If you really are interested in getting things fixed, ask me now, but do so in a proffessional way. 

[tautech]

Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base.

I don't quite understand that.
It's not the same with my cheap scope.

If I change the time base on a stopped scope, I don't get "infinitely" more detail (depending on the memory depth).
Basically, I only stretch what I have captured.
I don't think the term “zoom” is so inappropriate.

If the scope runs while changing the time base, I get more detail.

Is it different with more expensive scopes or am I not understanding this correctly?

It does get confusing when others use zoom when these DSO's have a Zoom mode.

Then we need be very clear which we are referring to.

[2N3055]

Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base.

I don't quite understand that.
It's not the same with my cheap scope.

If I change the time base on a stopped scope, I don't get "infinitely" more detail (depending on the memory depth).
Basically, I only stretch what I have captured.
I don't think the term “zoom” is so inappropriate.

If the scope runs while changing the time base, I get more detail.

Is it different with more expensive scopes or am I not understanding this correctly?

That is EXACTLY the problem.
When stopped, you are still changing the Time base. But sampling rate stays the same as it was at the time of capture.
You also have limited amount of data as captured. You cannot expand time base and see things outside what was in the memory when you pressed stop.

When running sample rate will change, depending on amount of memory.
Also, amount of data and time interval captured will follow and new captures will capture different data interval.

Zoom OTOH only changes which part of the data you are looking at.

Time base is scope data capture parameter, zoom mode is visual magnification function. They could be used to see portion of data but they are functionally different. And that comes with certain behaviour differences..


 

[Aldo22]

@tautech
@2N3055

I assume "zoom mode" means the feature in the attached screenshot.
I hadn't even thought of that. In my manual it is called “Dual Window Display” but the button is actually labeled “Zoom”.
I now realize that the term is reserved for this.

Thank you.

[2N3055]

I now failed to reproduce the frequency measure issue with a 1.5MHz fixed frequency. It does show "***" as i would expect it. I dont know what the difference here exactly is.

I do not investigate this issue further for now, because no one else really tries to help (actually use the scope). Everyone is just telling me i am an idiot. Keep this bug then and happly spend hours or work, because you got confused by such "issues". 

I will now pack my bags for my holidays. 

I can answer while on my trip down the Côte d’Azur and to spain, but i will have no access to my scope for 3 months then! If you really are interested in getting things fixed, ask me now, but do so in a proffessional way. 

Nobody says you are an idiot.
You are simply rushing to report something without proper investigation and clear explanation of how to reproduce.
First problem (not investigating) leads to many wrong conclusions and false alarms on your side.
Not explaining well all the steps leads to others cannot reproduce anything.
So most of your posts end up being hot air.

To the point, thank you for finally explaining the "scale offset problem" as you call it.

That takes care of problem 2.

As for proper investigation, after you explained what you are doing, it took me few minutes to confirm there is a bug.
But, investigating properly, I quickly realized that it is not a bug with zoom mode at all.
Same effect can be seen if you simply put channel at 20mV and create large offset of 3-4V.
Will report.

[eTobey]

First problem (not investigating) leads to many wrong conclusions and false alarms on your side.

Many? Are you sh*** me? Those were dozends hundrets!

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

That is your limited view, because your to blind to see, or just deny that there are bugs.  That definition of fanboy i had in my signature would fit here...
And yes there were a few  "hot air ballon posts" but mine could not fit people like some of yours could.

But, investigating properly, I quickly realized that it is not a bug with zoom mode at all.
Same effect can be seen if you simply put channel at 20mV and create large offset of 3-4V.

Of course i was on the way to investigate further, but the scope revealed another bug to me: it crashed when using my SCPI script. (now tell me it was my script that was the problem  )

Why the fu** do almost all bugs haunt me? You guys are not really using it, are you?

[eTobey]

It does get confusing when others use zoom when these DSO's have a Zoom mode.

Then we need be very clear which we are referring to.

I usually use the words "zoom mode" when i refer to the zoom mode.

The word timebase i would only use when actually capturing with it, because changing the timebase would change the samplerate (the underlying base). While zooming in, on a captured trace would not. It would just "resize" (zoom) what is already there! It would not change the timebase while it is stopped, since the sampled points are not changed.

[eTobey]

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

Just another hot air post...

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

Edit:
Funny: after i found this "issue" a few weeks ago, i just found more of that nonsense. (second pic).

[2N3055]

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

Just another hot air post...

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

Edit:
Funny: after i found this "issue" a few weeks ago, i just found more of that nonsense. (second pic).

 

[shapirus]

Well that's legit. It's a UI/UX issue. Those extra digits are not only useless, but, in the first case, also harmful, as they seriously spoil readability.

[ebastler]

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

That's pretty awkward indeed.

The strange thing with Siglent's number formatting is that someone put some serious effort into it. The number of decimal places varies, depending on how many digits are required to distinguish adjacent label values. (I.e. the further you zoom in, the more decimal places are added.)

But then they always append two (!) extra zeros which are totally redundant. Pity!

[Martin72]

The grace of late acquisition...
In the beginning, the labeling was up to six digits after the decimal point.
Complete nonsense, ONE digit behind the decimal point is completely sufficient for axis labeling, or preferably no digits behind it at all.
I think labeling is correct and important, but only as a rough guide.
Cursors and measured values should be displayed accurately, so there should be digits after the decimal point, nowhere else.

[electronics hobbyist]

Steps to reproduce the grid alignement error (started from factory default):

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Not giving details about a signal is deliberatly, because its irrelevant. 

Due to some reasons, I am currently unable to access YouTube, so welcome this form of problem feedback very much.

[electr_peter]

There is a bug with vertical zoom functionality as described in topic Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's. Screenshots describing situation are in a linked post.

SDS800X HD in zoom mode with Fixed Offset for Vertical Ref behaves strangely (1.1.3.6/3.8.12 FW) Utility > Menu > System Setting > Reference Pos > Vertical Ref [Fixed Position/Fixed Offset]

Setup - square wave 0V/3V input signal, edge trigger at 0.3V. Make signal full screen, then enable zoom mode and try to focus on the very top part of square wave. With vertical reference set to "Fixed Offset" zooming vertically "moves down" zoom box in level (!) and requires vertical offset adjustment.

Is it expected behavior? I don't see how this is useful.
IMO Vertical Ref option should not affect zoom mode at all and zoom mode should work as it currently does with "Fixed Position" setting.

The same issue remains with the newest FW 1.1.3.8.

Added screenshots (with descriptions) of the vertical zoom in Fixed Offset and Fixed Position Vertical Ref modes. Screenshots show a sequence of zoom ins and manual offset adjustments, trying to get to the top part of square wave. Observe position of zoom box in top part of the screen - clearly Fixed Offset has some issues while Fixed Position works.

Also, I am not sure I like the way scaling of Reference waveforms works while not in zoom mode (Vertical Ref does not affect Reference waveforms), but at least it is not buggy.