Try before you buy?

[tautech]

About network interface speed: don't stare yourself blind on that. A DSO won't be able to use 100Mbit to the limit

Joe's requirement is for post processing of data so for some captures files can easy be 100's MB.
Thinking about this while on other tasks it did occur to me the SDS6000A with its rear MicroSD card slot might be a good alternative solution for Joe.

[joeqsmith]

How do you perceive the MicroSD slot would be used?  Maybe it wasn't clear that I want the data live, not by sneaker net.   

My vintage LeCroy 7200A used two SCSI masters to move the data from the DSO to the PC.   More than one way to skin that cat back then.   They must have been thinking about Ethernet back then and the scope is actually marked where the card would plug-in.  From what I understand they never implemented any firmware support for it.   The good old days....

[baldurn]

The WiFi option could be faster than 100 Mbps.

[tautech]

How do you perceive the MicroSD slot would be used?  Maybe it wasn't clear that I want the data live, not by sneaker net.   

Oh a live data stream, not sure how/if they can do that, maybe someone else can advise.
I guess the SCPI command set does that stuff, IDK never used it.

Do you wanna give one a trial run as is the topic of this thread ?
I can open some doors, in fact they are already adjar.

[nctnico]

The WiFi option could be faster than 100 Mbps.

The problem is that the data can not be fed into the ethernet link fast enough. A couple of years ago several DSOs where tested and the recent models from GW Instek turned out to have the highest data transfer rate

[joeqsmith]

As promised, I updated the Siglent Arb from 33R1B6 to 33R3.  It had no effect on the encoder skipping problem.

[tautech]

No problem.  Let me do some research first and then get back with you.

And what did you discover ?

[joeqsmith]

No problem.  Let me do some research first and then get back with you.

And what did you discover ?

It had no effect on the encoder skipping problem.

[tautech]

No problem.  Let me do some research first and then get back with you.

And what did you discover ?

It had no effect on the encoder skipping problem.

So we're still on about your encoder abuse instead of using the keypad and not at all about your scope needs. 

No one said any upgrade for SDG1000X models has remedied encoder issues so it's not surprising they are unchanged for you. Everyone else I know doesn't have issues with the SDG1000X encoder however you've identified a skip/s which I'm sure is in many brands of equipment.

Send me a PM should you want to discuss some issues in detail.

[joeqsmith]

No problem.  Let me do some research first and then get back with you.

And what did you discover ?

It had no effect on the encoder skipping problem.

So we're still on about your encoder abuse instead of using the keypad and not at all about your scope needs. 

No one said any upgrade for SDG1000X models has remedied encoder issues so it's not surprising they are unchanged for you. Everyone else I know doesn't have issues with the SDG1000X encoder however you've identified a skip/s which I'm sure is in many brands of equipment.

Send me a PM should you want to discuss some issues in detail.

Recently we bought a Siglent Arb where I work to test the waters so to speak.  It was less than impressive but we are only talking about a few hundred bucks and did not return it. 

For home, I don't expect that level of service and just do my homework for brand new equipment.   If I were to buy a new Siglent scope for home, I would have to get a demo unit.  After seeing how poorly the Arb worked and not getting any answer on if the problem existed with higher end models,  the risk would be too high.  Last thing I would want is a scope where I rotate the vertical gain knob in one direction and waveform gets smaller and then bigger.   You laugh but after seeing that Arb, I have little confidence in their ability to get the UI right.   

Joe, there is a new firmware for these AWG's that had been reported to address encoder behaviour.
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip

If turning the encoder is abuse, sure.  No problem though.   The tone of your response helps me understand the level of support and helps solidify my lack of confidence in the brand.   A good data point.

I like having an encoder as it allows me to make adjustments dynamically but it has to work.  I've not seen one count up and down when rotating in a single direction like this Siglent.   

[tautech]

No problem.  Let me do some research first and then get back with you.

And what did you discover ?

It had no effect on the encoder skipping problem.

So we're still on about your encoder abuse instead of using the keypad and not at all about your scope needs. 

No one said any upgrade for SDG1000X models has remedied encoder issues so it's not surprising they are unchanged for you. Everyone else I know doesn't have issues with the SDG1000X encoder however you've identified a skip/s which I'm sure is in many brands of equipment.

Send me a PM should you want to discuss some issues in detail.

Recently we bought a Siglent Arb where I work to test the waters so to speak.  It was less than impressive but we are only talking about a few hundred bucks and did not return it. 

For home, I don't expect that level of service and just do my homework for brand new equipment.   If I were to buy a new Siglent scope for home, I would have to get a demo unit.  After seeing how poorly the Arb worked and not getting any answer on if the problem existed with higher end models,  the risk would be too high.  Last thing I would want is a scope where I rotate the vertical gain knob in one direction and waveform gets smaller and then bigger.   You laugh but after seeing that Arb, I have little confidence in their ability to get the UI right.   

Joe, there is a new firmware for these AWG's that had been reported to address encoder behaviour.
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip

Maybe you missed this a few days back:

Arb encoder firmware first....

Now why did I think you had SDG2042X ? 
I linked you the wrong firmware for SDG1032X that I saw in your video. Which have you got to put me outta misery wondering which ?

Sorry, I never implied once I realised you had a SDG1032X and not a SDG2042X that the new firmware might solve your encoder issues.

If we can put this behind us for now I have some info that could be to your benefit however it is not for public disclosure. 

[BillyO]

The tone of your response helps me understand the level of support and helps solidify my lack of confidence in the brand.   A good data point.

Any "tone" inferred aside, at least he is here and engaged with you to help despite not being directly rewarded for his efforts.  I have seen assistive posts from other Siglent staff on these pages too.  I have, however, never seen any input or help form:  Tektronix, HP/Agilent/Keysight, R&S, etc..  In fact at least one of those has publicly stated they will not support non-professionals and hobbyists.

When I go dancing, I like to pick a partner that is actually at the dance hall.  Your tastes may differ.

[Fungus]

Any "tone" inferred aside, at least he is here and engaged with you to help despite not being directly rewarded for his efforts.

How? By telling joe he's turning the encoder wrong?

[colorado.rob]

Any "tone" inferred aside, at least he is here and engaged with you to help despite not being directly rewarded for his efforts.  I have seen assistive posts from other Siglent staff on these pages too.  I have, however, never seen any input or help form:  Tektronix, HP/Agilent/Keysight, R&S, etc..  In fact at least one of those has publicly stated they will not support non-professionals and hobbyists.

R&S and Keysight are both active on this forum. Considerably less active than Siglent, but still active. They do, however, cater to a different clientele in general than Siglent. Many members of this forum are not hobbyists.

[BillyO]

How? By telling joe he's turning the encoder wrong?

Well, there is a bit more to the exchange so far than that.  But I think you are aware of that too.

[BillyO]

Many members of this forum are not hobbyists.

I guessed that much.  I was was a "Pro" but now I'm just a hobbyist.  Despite my many years of working as a professional ET, I am now no longer of interest to the "Big Guy's".  Sure, they will sell me premium priced equipment and send me on my lonesome way, but won't be bothered to help if issues arise, despite the experience.  That may not be true of all of them, to be fair.  Some might step in with a little help if I have a service contract.  But I'm not willing to pay the price of admission to find out.

[nctnico]

The latter is utter nonsense. I have received in depth responses to technical questions from GW  Instek, Keysight,  Tektronix and R&S. Not through a noisy forum but by contacting their support. I didn't need any support contract or something like that.

[BillyO]

The latter is utter nonsense. I have received in depth responses to technical questions from GW  Instek, Keysight,  Tektronix and R&S. Not through a noisy forum but by contacting their support. I didn't need any support contract or something like that.

Really?  Good for you - perhaps you are lucky or you put in your request under a company name.  Recently I sent in questions to both Tek and Fluke and got no response at all, other than their email bot saying they got my request and would get right back to me.  Like F'k!  Now that is utter nonsense .. and is a major reason I went to Siglent and Brymen instead.

I send in a request to Siglent and I have a phone call within 2 hours.

I will actively work against both Fluke and Tek going forward.  They should not treat potential customers like sh!t.  So far Agilent and R&S have not personally pissed me off as I have not yet tried to contact them, but I like the way I get treated by Siglent and I like their equipment, so they will get my recommendations for new equipment purchases going forward.

You can have your industry "leaders".  I have no time for them.

[joeqsmith]

The tone of your response helps me understand the level of support and helps solidify my lack of confidence in the brand.   A good data point.

Any "tone" inferred aside, at least he is here and engaged with you to help despite not being directly rewarded for his efforts.  I have seen assistive posts from other Siglent staff on these pages too.  I have, however, never seen any input or help form:  Tektronix, HP/Agilent/Keysight, R&S, etc..  In fact at least one of those has publicly stated they will not support non-professionals and hobbyists.

When I go dancing, I like to pick a partner that is actually at the dance hall.  Your tastes may differ.

[joeqsmith]

Any "tone" inferred aside, at least he is here and engaged with you to help despite not being directly rewarded for his efforts.

How? By telling joe he's turning the encoder wrong?

I understand it's considered abuse. 

The latter is utter nonsense. I have received in depth responses to technical questions from GW  Instek, Keysight,  Tektronix and R&S. Not through a noisy forum but by contacting their support. I didn't need any support contract or something like that.

I've had very good luck getting support from Fluke, HP, LeCroy and Tektronix.  The last time I contacted Fluke was to get approval to release a training video they produced for one of their hand held scopes into public domain.

I think the only time I have been in contact with a service department that treated me like shit, it was with GMW in the USA.   I don't blame the corporation but then again, their distributors are representing them.   

Of course, I can't mention service without bringing up Brymen.  If I gave out awards for service, they would certainly win by a wide margin.

[mawyatt]

Paul from R&S is active (very knowledgable technically) and has provided some very useful information as shown here for example, note video author.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/comparison-between-siglent-sdg1000x-and-2000x/75/

Keysight used to have a representative that participated here, but haven't seen anything recently, and we haven't had a need for contacting them, so no reference here.

So far not impressed with GW Instek, alto only a single issue/request, no big deal.

Rob is active as we all know, and extremely helpful for folks with Siglent gear. Siglent NA has also been helpful for our needs/request, as are some of the other folks involved with Siglent gear. Overall very impressed with Siglent support here, and from NA.

There is so much useful and important information flowing here on Siglent gear, of course you need to filter the responses/claims/non-sense/bashers/fanboys/info sources and such, but once you've developed your select "filters", one can glean a tremendous amount of highly useful information on instrument usages, features (some hidden), upgrades (hacks), limitations, repairs, and so on.

For example, just today over on the thread about the AWGs and the note about the little known SDG2000X & SDG6000X feature to "tune" the Reference Oscillator. Highly useful, but little discussed feature (wish their DSOs had this!!).

This site alone is probably Siglent's best advertising resource, at least for the smaller customers, which they seem to care about and support after the sale.

Of course YMMV.

Best,

[nctnico]

Getting an answer also depends on the question. A-brands typically have elaborate specs and documentation  so many answers can be found in there. I have stopped answering questions from customers quickly because typically they tell me 'never mind, found it in the documentation ' within an hour. Unless ofcourse it is about a real issue that isn't covered by the documentation.

[BillyO]

Getting an answer also depends on the question.

It shouldn't.  If the answer is buried in their documentation or deep on the website, then they should point that out.

A delayed answer is not the same as no answer.


Also, please don't assume everyone you meet on the internet is an idiot.  This seems to be a failing of several of the long term members around here.  In my case the information was not available in the documentation.  To Tek the question was about whether or not they were aware of and/or working on a fix for a bug and to Fluke it was a question about their policy regarding parts supply and service for discontinued instruments.

In a way I'm quite glad.  First, I got a great lesson on their customer support.  Second, for less money than I was going to spend with them on a single 4ch 2 Series scope cope and 87V DMM I was able to get 2 4ch scopes a DC load, a bench DMM, a handheld DMM and a separate AWB.  Way more functionality, higher specs and a responsive, engaged manufacturer. 

Oh, and I ended up avoiding that horrible mirror like screen and those nasty cheap membrane buttons they have on the 2 Series scope.  Really Tek?  Is junk like that actually acceptable for a $5K scope?

[nctnico]

Getting an answer also depends on the question.

It shouldn't.  If the answer is buried in their documentation or deep on the website, then they should point that out.

A delayed answer is not the same as no answer.


Also, please don't assume everyone you meet on the internet is an idiot.  This seems to be a failing of several of the long term members around here.  In my case the information was not available in the documentation.  To Tek the question was about whether or not they were aware of and/or working on a fix for a bug and to Fluke it was a question about their policy regarding parts supply and service for discontinued instruments.

These are exactly the kind of questions you won't get an answer for! No matter which manufacturer you ask.

- No manufacturer will share their development roadmap. It may make customers wait longer to make a purchase.
- Discontinued product means: no more parts and no more service. Maybe you can get lucky and get something repaired based on 'best effort' but that's it.

[BillyO]

- Discontinued product means: no more parts and service

No it does not.  Discontinued means they no longer manufacture it.  However, a company Like Fluke MUST have a service policy for their discontinued instruments.  If they don't then I dodged a pretty serious bullet didn't I?  I can imagine a large company or University buying 100 Fluke 87V meters only to have Fluke announce a few months later they go F-off because they are discontinued.  No, Fluke woudl never have gotten where they are if they did not support discontinued instruments.  They're just pricks though.