Try before you buy?

[BillyO]

Despite how much research we do on-line, or how many data sheets and user manuals we read before we buy a piece of test equipment we often find that, once it's in our hands, there is something about it we discover we don't like.

Wouldn't it be great to try it before we make the final decision?

Enter Amazon.  So, would it be moral to buy stuff on Amazon, keep it for a a couple of weeks and then return it, then do this for all the competing devices until we find the one we like the best, then buy it permanently?

I don't think Amazon would have an issue with this as they guarantee satisfaction.

[ataradov]

They will absolutely have an issue if you do that all the time. Eventually they will flag your account and start limiting your returns. You also need to have a good reason for returns. If device as described and functional, but you don't like it, it is not a good reason.

I also would not say that this is ethical, since money does not come out of Amazon, it comes out of the seller's pocket. Seller can't resell the equipment as new anymore.

It is far better to find a place that rents out equipment and rent whatever you need first. This may be hard in general, since not all equipment is available that way, especially low end stuff.

[dorkshoei]

I don't think Amazon would have an issue with this as they guarantee satisfaction
...
So, would it be moral to buy stuff on Amazon, keep it for a a couple of weeks and then return it, then do this for all the competing devices until we find the one we like the best, then buy it permanently?

No clue if Amazon "guarantees satisfaction" and if they do it's not subject to misuse.   

Like any advanced retailer Amazon maintains metrics about your buying and return habits.   Lots of documented reports of Amazon customers having their accounts closed due to excessive returns.    I'm also sure cost of item is a factor (and TE isn't cheap) as once returned it has to go be resold via Amazon Marketplace.

Their algorithms are obviously proprietary but my sense has always been that because my return:purchase ratio is low (1:100 maybe) they cut me some slack in the borderline cases where they could play hardass.

Your return options would be "inaccurate website description", "no longer needed" or "item defective or doesn't work".

Moral is subjective.  I wouldn't do what you're suggesting even if it was consequence free (which per above I don't think it is).    Bottom line, there is no substitute for doing research before buying. 

[Fungus]

I don't think Amazon would have an issue with this as they guarantee satisfaction.

If it's "sold by Amazon" then I don't worry about it nearly as much as if it's sold by some independent seller who's been seduced by the Amazon sales pitch and is now losing money on expensive returns.

I have a problem with people who do this but complain loudly if any packages they receive appear to have been previously opened.

[Thunderer]

If you afford to rent before buying, it is a solution. But you may end up paying a lot in the end.

Best is, if you are a company or buy equipment from time to time (not one entry level scope every 12 years), is to devellop a relationship with a dealer/distributor/manufacturer. Most of the time, you will find a representative that goes above and  beyond for a customer, and specially for one enthusiastic and competent in the field. Remember, kindness and honesty goes a long way.

[Fungus]

we often find that, once it's in our hands, there is something about it we discover we don't like.

All test gear has "quirks". None is perfect.

[BillyO]

Yes, I do mean "Sold by Amazon" products.

[BillyO]

we often find that, once it's in our hands, there is something about it we discover we don't like.

All test gear has "quirks". None is perfect.

Of course.  But some I can live with and some you can live with that I can't (remember our discussion on the Fluke 101?) ..

[themadhippy]

In the uk we got the consumer contracts regulations,which amongst other things

Your right to cancel an order for goods made at a distance starts from the moment you place your order and ends 14 days from the day you receive your goods.

That includes basic delivery charges but you may have to pay for the return.

[dorkshoei]

In the uk we got the consumer contracts regulations,which amongst other things

Your right to cancel an order for goods made at a distance starts from the moment you place your order and ends 14 days from the day you receive your goods.

That includes basic delivery charges but you may have to pay for the return.

1. The guy is in Canada, not the UK.
2. Do these regulations commit the retailer to continue to sell to you?  I doubt it.

[BillyO]

Go ahead and try it.  Report back what happens after your 10th ... 15th return of a $500 item.

Over the years I have retuned at least that many items for various (always serious) reasons, but not all at or above $500.

So first, this is a hypothetical question.  I'm not trying t start a trend.  Second, 10 -15?  Hmm, I was thinking like 2 or maybe 3 a year.  After all I don't buy new test equipment that often (this year I purchased 5 new items, but this was litrally a once in a lifetime year) and usually one is trying to decide between 2 or 3 items that compete in the same price/spec/functionality range..

[ataradov]

It is obviously fine to have random returns over multiple years. If you have 2-3 returns of test equipment a year, it might be enough.

In any case, I don't see how this is ethical and I would not blame Amazon for limiting or closing the account. This is the risk you take.

[themadhippy]

1. The guy is in Canada, not the UK.

so why are americans replying i?for all we know canada could have similar rules and the mention of it rings a bell leading them to search them out.
And any retailer has the right to refuse your customer,of course things might be different in the land of serve me or i'll sue,

[dorkshoei]

Go ahead and try it.  Report back what happens after your 10th ... 15th return of a $500 item.

Over the years I have retuned at least that many items for various (always serious) reasons, but not all at or above $500.

So first, this is a hypothetical question.  I'm not trying t start a trend.  Second, 10 -15?  Hmm, I was thinking like 2 or maybe 3 a year.  After all I don't buy new test equipment that often (this year I purchased 5 new items, but this was litrally a once in a lifetime year) and usually one is trying to decide between 2 or 3 items that compete in the same price/spec/functionality range..

I have no idea how many you were talking about.    You didn't say.

I just purchased and returned a KVM switch from Amazon.  It had a spectacularly bad feature (it disconnects and reconnects the mouse/keyboard each time you switch hosts.    It was not anything I could have ever ascertained from reading the manual or product description (I did both).   So I returned it without giving it a second thought.     

I think if you're knowingly trying to decide between 2 or 3 items then you should find a different way to evaluate them than buy/return.   

[dorkshoei]

1. The guy is in Canada, not the UK.

so why are americans replying

you're the only person quoting country specific regulations.   everyone else is just commenting that Amazon has policies about excessive returns.  noone has said you can't return an item once purchased,  just that you may not be in a position to keep buying if your returns are excessive.   

[baldurn]

A more honest way is to resell the equipment you do not like. The resale value is usually very good for the known brands.

[BillyO]

In any case, I don't see how this is ethical ..

This is an interesting.  You find in immoral, now if most others find it immoral too, then it becomes unethical.

Every time I buy something from Amazon, they go out of their way to tell me how long I have to return it.  When I do make a return, they allow for some pretty trivial reasons in their list or reasons and they have an "Other" category.  Nonetheless, they never question your final reasoning.  The process is automated and the return is authorized immediately.  Here in Canada you get your money back the minute the return postage is scanned by the post office and the return postage is always prepaid.

[ataradov]

It works the same way in the US up to the point where you exceed the limits of their algorithm for "Other" and get banned.

Part of the reason is that most if not all of the returned stuff gets trashed or resold as bulk junk. I'm not sure if they do something different for high priced items, but generally a return is a full price loss to them.

It is not that easy to find test equipment that is sold by amazon anyway. And if you start doing this to stuff that is not sold by amazon, it hurts the seller as well.

[BillyO]

A more honest way is to resell the equipment you do not like. The resale value is usually very good for the known brands.

Sure, provided it's not faulty or otherwise unusable.

Would anyone have an objection to returning a FNIRSI or Hantek DSO2X1X scope?  I doubt it.  Of course if one followed the posts on this forum, why would one even buy either, but that's a moot point.  Not everyone reads this forum.

However, even buying a $1000 scope, should one keep it and try to resell it if they find the UI totally unacceptable?  Or some other flaw/"feature" that was buried by the specs?  Would it be dishonest to return such a thing?

[tautech]

Fact is distributors get the chance to acquire demo models for customers to try before buying.

Anybody properly engaged in this industry can offer this to customers but as Fungus says all equipment has quirks however as engineers aren't we always learning new products so why would equipment be any different ?

[BillyO]

It works the same way in the US up to the point where you exceed the limits of their algorithm for "Other" and get banned.

Is this something you know is there for sure, or just an assumption?

I have seen stuff about returning 10 items a months for no good reason (I changed my mind) for several months, then you get a warning, but like I said I'm talking 2 or 3 things a year.  I'm also not talking about "I changed my mind" I'm talking about "This is not suited to my needs" or "This item does not function as expected".

[dorkshoei]

It is not that easy to find test equipment that is sold by amazon anyway. And if you start doing this to stuff that is not sold by amazon, it hurts the seller as well.

My Siglent SDS1104X-E was "Ships from Amazon.com Sold by Amazon.com".    I picked it up when they had a $375 Black Friday sale in 2021.

Supposedly there is Amazon Renewed but I've never seen anything marked as this. 

Right now there are several  Siglent SDS1104X-E sold by Amazon Warehouse on Amazon for $396 vs the $430 list.    I don't believe they come with any manufacturer warranty as they are considered used.   Just 30 day return option.   Not enough of a discount for me but this is how Amazon tries to sell their Siglent returns it seems.

I've bought lots of Amazon Warehouse items but only low cost stuff where I don't believe I'll need a warranty.

[ataradov]

Would anyone have an objection to returning a FNIRSI or Hantek DSO2X1X scope?  I doubt it.

There is not a single one of them sold by amazon. And while FNIRSI lies about the specs, Hantek performance fully matches the stated specifications.

You are trying to justify things you know are wrong or objectionable. At the same time you sound like TikTok Karens that discovered the same exact "hack".

[tautech]

It is not that easy to find test equipment that is sold by amazon anyway. And if you start doing this to stuff that is not sold by amazon, it hurts the seller as well.

My Siglent SDS1104X-E was "Ships from Amazon.com Sold by Amazon.com".    I picked it up when they had a $375 Black Friday sale in 2021.

Stunning deal for the feature set they offer. 

[xrunner]

Supposedly there is Amazon Renewed but I've never seen anything marked as this. 

I've bought an Amazon renewed item before. It was a few years ago and I don't remember what it was now. But I do remember I couldn't tell it from a new one.

Edit: I looked it up in my order list it was a PC video card