The Uni-T UT33c or d - how good they are?

[Lightages]

It never happens to me/never happened to me/never seen it happen, blah blah blah. It always amazes me how people want to tell others to ignore safety advice and safety regulations just because they think it is silly. I have never been in a car accident, therefore they don't happen?

The answer to the OP is that the UT33 series meters are a reasonable buy for bench top and low power testing. The 10A range is not fused and could cause some nasty problems if used in error. If it can be purchased for around $15 it is an OK buy. It is a disposable meter that will not last more than a few years with regular use.

[Muxr]

Oh yeah... I forgot to mention how free some are with other peoples money.

Also note the difference IS hundreds of dollars. My Fluke listed at $475. My $12 Uni-T has more features and performance and adequate safety yet 40 can be purchased for the cost of one Fluke. In a professional setting where hundreds of thousands for salary and property are involved a few hundred extra may be reasonable. Not the case in most of these discussions. People do like to project their own situation ignoring actual requirements hence a lot of what I consider to be bad advice.

BTW all meters are fused, even if we are talking about super skinny PCB trace. Personally I do not even replace the glass fuses. Instead a hair thin strand of wire. Sure it blows at much lower current but I can live with the additional safety margin. I'll use an external  shunt for real high current. IMO when you can get several complete hobby meters for the cost of a single replacement fuse on a "real" meter maybe time to draw the line.

Difference is not 100s of dollars. I am talking about entry level meters. A $12 unfused Uni-T is not at all in the same league with a top end meter.

Fluke 101 $53, Fluke 106 $75, Fluke 107 $89, Fluke 15B+ $98.

All these are sub $100 meters and have proper safety specifications.

edit: removed low end amprobe meters because there is mention in the that thread about meters not reaching spec, that they do not quite meet the safety spec.

[paulie]

Difference is not 100s of dollars. I am talking about entry level meters. A $12 unfused Uni-T is not at all in the same league with a top end meter..

Ok, so you can only buy half dozen or dozen of the Uni-T for the cost of one low end Fluke. Huge difference in features and performance at that level (not in favor of the high end ones).

And again, all meters are fused, even if we are talking about super skinny PCB trace. IMO when you can get several complete hobby meters for the cost of a single replacement fuse on a "real" meter maybe time to draw the line.

[Muxr]

Difference is not 100s of dollars. I am talking about entry level meters. A $12 unfused Uni-T is not at all in the same league with a top end meter..

Ok, so you can only buy half dozen or dozen of the Uni-T for the cost of one low end Fluke. Huge difference in features and performance at that level (not in favor of the high end ones).

And again, all meters are fused, even if we are talking about super skinny PCB trace. IMO when you can get several complete hobby meters for the cost of a single replacement fuse on a "real" meter maybe time to draw the line.

PCB trace is not a fuse. It might save you from harm but it might not. There is no telling. A fuse has a rating on it. A PCB trace doesn't.

Anyone who's done MCU programming knows that loading a ton of gimmick features is trivial. What isn't trivial however is providing a safe quality meter at $12 price point.

[Lightages]

A fuse is not an uncontrolled burning of a test lead in your hand from over current. Nor is it a trace on a circuit board evaporating and making a conductive plasma inside the meter possibly making an even bigger unstoppable short. Your assertion is a dangerous and ridiculous proposition that if followed could get someone hurt.

A fuse is a contained electrical element that fails in a predictable way and contains the failure so that it can cannot cause damage to the rest of the device or the user.

Facts, not rhetoric.

[paulie]

Facts, not rhetoric.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -John Adams

If you guys would like to believe a 1 mil copper trace will hold amps of current or is not "safe" please feel free to continue with that belief system. If this is more than basic religious or fanboy fervor or entertainment watching beginners spin/spend or maybe other agendas then little more to be said. At this point not much except copying and pasting previous comments so better to just drop it.

[Lightages]

So a person got his answer about whether the UT33 series was OK or not, and you thread crap with rantings about elitists and your encouraging people to believe that parts of a circuit board should be relied upon for safety. You then tell people to stop disagreeing with and drop it? 

Quoting a person as if they were some authority on reality is rather silly too.

Believe what you want, but understand your BS will get called. Noobs need sound advice that will avoid safety issues, not people encouraging them to to take unnecessary risks.

And, who told the OP that he shouldn't buy the UT33 and he needed to spend 5 times more? Me? I don't think so.

[paulie]

Well I did say this would devolve into little more than re-quoting. So reviewing the thread looks like I may have been wrong about discouraging use of the product:

Think of it as a disposable meter that you use in where you on't want to expose your good meter to dirt and grease around a car.

At this price, not such a good deal.

You have to open the case to access the battery and the only fuse on the mA range and the screws are very small self tappers. It is a disposable meter that will not last more than a few years with regular use.

They are made very cheaply and worth maybe $8.

So before this degrades further into personal attacks let me say I agree meters costing orders of magnitude more are indeed safer. The Fluke warning beep on risky settings for example. Whether this is worth the tiny fraction of a percent improvement in "safety" for a hobbyist is up to the shopper. More importantly I think spending big bucks just for the sake of spending big bucks does actually make a buyer feel better. In my culture anyway. Lamborghini syndrome. Personally for me I hate playing the sucker so...

[Lightages]

"Before" this gets into personal attacks? I think that is too late.  Quote mining out of context doesn't make your point. I did not say don't buy one. I even suggested he buy 2 or 3 if the price was right.

I don't know what your agenda is but you keep thread crapping where I suggest a multimeter might not be suitable for high energy circuits. I only try to educate so those who don't know have the information. I always try to suggest within the means of the person seeking advice. I don't try to push the most expensive meters on people. Get your facts right.

[paulie]

Facts are stubborn things. So are linked quotes where context is an issue. Anyway let's not fly off the handle here and just agree to disagree.

[rob77]

but we can all agree the UT33 is a cheap and small usable(but not accurate)  meter for low voltage and low current circuits... but on the other hand it's a dangerous piece of "equipment" for poking mains.

[Muxr]

Not just mains but also high current low voltage sources like lead acid batteries or lipo batteries.

[smjcuk]

Really only suitable for testing components and circuits around ~15V AC or DC and lower (e.g. on your bench only).

Forget working on appliances, large capacitors, valve/tube circuits, taking mains measurements or high current situations.

Otherwise if you make a mistake and have the meter on the incorrect range or leads inserted incorrectly it will likely blow up in your hands and face. Meters without good input protection can also instantly vaporize the probes as well, which you will be holding or looking at.

I just stuck one of my UT33As on an extension block in the kitchen across live/neutral and poked it on ohms and turned on the mains. No explosion, no lead heating. Ohms range still works. Turned off, switched to amps, fuse popped instantly as expected.

I don't recommend you do this, but it at least it is a data point.

I didn't try it on the unfused 10A as that would be silly. That's what cheap shitty clamp meters are for.

[paulie]

Really only suitable for testing components and circuits around ~15V AC or DC and lower (e.g. on your bench only).

Forget working on appliances, large capacitors, valve/tube circuits, taking mains measurements or high current situations.

Otherwise if you make a mistake and have the meter on the incorrect range or leads inserted incorrectly it will likely blow up in your hands and face. Meters without good input protection can also instantly vaporize the probes as well, which you will be holding or looking at.

Not just mains but also high current low voltage sources like lead acid batteries or lipo batteries.

but we can all agree the UT33 is a cheap and small usable(but not accurate)  meter for low voltage and low current circuits... but on the other hand it's a dangerous piece of "equipment" for poking mains.

LOL. The naysayer brigade has arrived !!!

It's absolutely amazing how quickly these old wives tales catch on. And how they do persist. Ignorance and superstition reign supreme. Do NOT forget to check under the bed for those wolves. You could lose an... ummmm...  ANKLE!

[rob77]

Really only suitable for testing components and circuits around ~15V AC or DC and lower (e.g. on your bench only).

Forget working on appliances, large capacitors, valve/tube circuits, taking mains measurements or high current situations.

Otherwise if you make a mistake and have the meter on the incorrect range or leads inserted incorrectly it will likely blow up in your hands and face. Meters without good input protection can also instantly vaporize the probes as well, which you will be holding or looking at.

Not just mains but also high current low voltage sources like lead acid batteries or lipo batteries.

but we can all agree the UT33 is a cheap and small usable(but not accurate)  meter for low voltage and low current circuits... but on the other hand it's a dangerous piece of "equipment" for poking mains.

LOL. The naysayer brigade has arrived !!!

It's absolutely amazing how quickly these old wives tales catch on. And how they do persist. Ignorance and superstition reign supreme. Do NOT forget to check under the bed for those wolves. You could lose an... ummmm...  ANKLE!

you're boring paulie...

i don't wish you anything wrong, but i wish you to experience how it feels when such a meter explodes in your hands thanks to your very mistake, don't get me wrong.. i don't wish you to get injured, just to be scared by the explosion.

we're all human and we DO mistakes, and for those moments when we do mistakes we need equipment with proper protection.

[Fungus]

I don't recommend you do this

So why bother posting it...?

[paulie]

Ah... religion is a fascinating phenomenon. Specially when it involves technical matters on internet forums. Highly unlikely any of the detractors have any experience at all in the matter they pretend to be "experts". Or even bother to read posts in threads where they make noise. As mentioned several times I HAVE shorted car batteries and line in both ohms and milliamp range. Like smjcuk no explosions or airbag shrapnel.

I didn't try it on the unfused 10A as that would be silly.

Silly is my middle name. Maybe not with my "high end" ($12) Uni-t meter but certainly can afford to play with one of the HF freebies. I have performed this experiment many times before by accident but this time under controlled conditions with video or photo evidence. Stay tuned.

[Howardlong]

I don't recommend you do this

So why bother posting it...?

To show that Armaggedon had failed to arrive I would imagine despite the grave concerns cited.

While the lack of a fuse on the 10A range is not a great feature, there does seem to be rather more FUD than is strictly necessary on this thread IMHO.

[Fungus]

While the lack of a fuse on the 10A range is not a great feature, there does seem to be rather more FUD than is strictly necessary on this thread IMHO.

The problem is your attitude.

Mains AC is nothing to be blase about. Even if there's only a 0.1% chance of death/injury, it's still a non-zero chance of death/injury.

PS: You don't know if the person who's reading this's meter has a defect or not. Just because you survived doesn't mean he will.

[Howardlong]

While the lack of a fuse on the 10A range is not a great feature, there does seem to be rather more FUD than is strictly necessary on this thread IMHO.

The problem is your attitude.

Mains AC is nothing to be blase about. Even if there's only a 0.1% chance of death/injury, it's still a non-zero chance of death/injury.

PS: You don't know if the person who's reading this's meter has a defect or not. Just because you survived doesn't mean he will.

Fungus, there isn't really any need for that!

Re-read your own reply: it is 100% fear, uncertainty and doubt. The only statistic is one plucked from thin air.

Respectfully, I was trying to come in with a measured response to what I'd read here on this thread. There were few, as far as I could see, real facts backing up the need for someone to blow $200 on a DMM rather than $20, other than fear, uncertainty and doubt.

To a _lot_ of people (in fact I'd say it's the vast majority) it's the difference between making the purchase of any DMM at all. In that respect, I'd wager that they are actually safer by having a cheap DMM than not having one at all. At least they can measure whether something's live or not. That same person who is unlikely to spend $200 is also unlikely to spend a similar amount on getting an electrician out to check it for them just in case.

People are welcome to choose whatever DMM they want, and allowed to make an informed choice. But that choice is up to them, and real informed facts should be the basis of that decision. By the same token, should we not all be purchasing the "Fluke 28 II Ex Intrinsically Safe" DMM at $1200 or so because other less expensive Flukes are, apparently, not intrinsically safe?

I wasn't trying to make for a battle here, so please, let's have a reasoned discussion rather than a pissing contest, that will be far more useful to everyone.

[Muxr]

No one in this thread said to get a $200 DMM. What was said is, at least spend $38 more, since surely for $50 you can get a properly fused DMM. Personally I don't care if you think you're perfectly fine with the $12 DMM. I just think it's irresponsible suggesting that unfused DMMs are perfectly safe. That's all.

edit: I am frankly baffled that we're even having this discussion here. A DMM is probably the last piece of gear you should skimp on. It's a piece of gear that won't get outdated anytime soon, decent ones are relatively cheap (especially compared to all the other gear), and it's something you use all the time, a good meter will serve you forever. What's the point in pinching pennies on it?

edit2: cheapo DMMs have their place. Like the compact ones, they are ok in a pinch, and if you only ever intend to work on low voltage/current alcaline battery type stuff. Or in your car for emergencies. But for your main DMM, it makes no sense to get one.

[Fungus]

Respectfully, I was trying to come in with a measured response to what I'd read here on this thread. There were few, as far as I could see, real facts

There still aren't any. Anecdotes aren't evidence.

There's all sorts of factors you haven't accounted for, eg. the distance from the distribution panel when you did your experiment. Mains wires have inductance which will suppress large current surges if they're several meters long.

Come back when you've poked it directly into the distribution panel on the Ohms and current ranges (poke it in after the circuit breakers, obviously...)

backing up the need for someone to blow $200 on a DMM rather than $20, other than fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Who's saying you have to spend $200?

Me? I say use a tool that's designed for the job. Voltage detectors are good/safe/cheap (even Fluke branded ones are under $20).

If you've got one of those and a $15 multimeter then you're equipped for most household wiring and hobbyist electronics work. 

[Lightages]

I find it interesting that the poster asked a question about a specific series of meters, got a response with a warning about its limitations, and then the thread got crapped on all over by the anti-safety brigade. I recommended the meter with caveats and it devolved into this? All I did was educate a person asking about a meter and and the OP probably got scared away from asking questions here by the rhetoric and bickering.

Again, the UT33 series is a relatively good meter for up to $15, not built to last, and does not have a fuse on the 10A range. Given its lack of input protection and the lack of fuse, it is best kept away from high energy circuitry. If you can get it for $15 then it is an OK deal. If it is over that then maybe there are better alternatives but that depends on the pries of other things in your country.

In Argentina, actually most of South America, there is a citizen tax. The rich sell things at twice the price of the world, control importation, and so you are stuck with what is offered. So if the price is relative to the rest of things sold in Argentina, then get one, or two, so as to have a cross check. It is a budget meter with limitations.

[paulie]

Given its lack of input protection and the lack of fuse, it is best kept away from high energy circuitry. If you ca get it for $15 then it is an OK deal. If it is over that then maybe there are better alternatives but that depends on the pries of other things in your country.

So we can agree on something. Maybe a little less on what constitutes "high energy". I'd definitely avoid checking high current supplies or high capacity caps in anything over the rated voltage. And if it was over $15 (I snagged $12 bidding) maybe getting pricey. However not sure there are comparable products available in that range. Nothing on Ebay.

BTW I did kill some meters during lunch break and to avoid more "thread crapping" put results under a new topic. Spoiler: biggest problem was the annoyingly persistent smell of melted plastic.

[Fungus]

Again, the UT33 series is a relatively good meter for up to $15, not built to last, and does not have a fuse on the 10A range. Given its lack of input protection and the lack of fuse, it is best kept away from high energy circuitry. If you ca get it for $15 then it is an OK deal.

No arguments from me on any of that.

PS: My most-often-used meter cost me $15.