the eternal question about rigol vs siglent

[Fungus]

You know very well there is: the GW Instek GDS1054B. Uphackable to 200MHz, decoding, 10Mpts per channel, 1Mpts FFT, signal filtering, etc. It is better compared to the DS1054Z in every sense. The GDS1054B even has individual channel controls. At Tequipment the price difference is like 15 dollar.

I'm not 100% up to date but with all the recent hacks and addons (eg. decoding) it seems to be going up in value.

Maybe time to persuade Dave to do a video about hacking the one in his lab. It might finish off the DS1054Z and the Siglent.

(still ugly though)

[nctnico]

Is there an alternative four-channel 'scope for 350 bucks that's "modern"?

You know very well there is: the GW Instek GDS1054B. Uphackable to 200MHz, decoding, 10Mpts per channel, 1Mpts FFT, signal filtering, etc. It is better compared to the DS1054Z in every sense.

Key word: "Modern"

The GDS1054B is as antique as the DS1054Z.

Don't be an idiot. The GDS1054B is based on the Xilinx Zync just like every modern low-end and mid-range DSO out there.

[ebastler]

Isn't it reassuring that most people here seem to be quite happy with the scopes they got, and defend their respective strengths rather than complaining about their weaknesses? Whether it's Rigol, Siglent, GW-Instek or Keysight, everybody who posted here seems to feel that they made the right decision buying theirs. (Well, Siglent may be a slight exception -- for whatever reason, we don't seem to have a vocal Siglent buyer in the forum, but two competent sellers or former sellers.) 

I am no different, to be honest: Bought my DS1054Z three four^* years ago, and while I realize that there may be better scopes for only slightly more money today, I am happy with what I have. I like the compact form factor, build quality and screen layout (don't care much about the front panel layout though); the measurement capabilities have never been limiting for me; the tardy response of the traces to e.g. vertical offset adjustments can be a nuisance.

Would I buy it again today? I would actually need to compare with the other offers in a hands-on test, which I never had the opportunity to do. The things I like least and best about the DS1054Z are all look-and-feel related, rather than based on datasheet specs. So I honestly don't know.

^*Edit: Time flies... 

[tv84]

@nctnico, be carefull because you can be accused of OT... Let's see if it will happen... 

[KlausF]

If you ask me, I would also reccommend a GwInstek. Serial bus decoding and segmented history are included.

[smarteebit]

I would expect more real opinions from the end users instead of a few re-sellers fighting here.

[bitseeker]

You know very well there is: the GW Instek GDS1054B. Uphackable to 200MHz, decoding, 10Mpts per channel, 1Mpts FFT, signal filtering, etc. It is better compared to the DS1054Z in every sense. The GDS1054B even has individual channel controls. At Tequipment the price difference is like 15 dollar.

Wow, I didn't know the price of the GDS1054B had come down that much. If it had been released earlier and been a similar price as the DS1054Z, I probably would've gone with the GW Instek (how could you turn down individual channel controls?). On the other hand, at least I had fewer things to decide amongst.

[nctnico]

You know very well there is: the GW Instek GDS1054B. Uphackable to 200MHz, decoding, 10Mpts per channel, 1Mpts FFT, signal filtering, etc. It is better compared to the DS1054Z in every sense. The GDS1054B even has individual channel controls. At Tequipment the price difference is like 15 dollar.

Wow, I didn't know the price of the GDS1054B had come down that much. If it had been released earlier and been a similar price as the DS1054Z, I probably would've gone with the GW Instek (how could you turn down individual channel controls?). On the other hand, at least I had fewer things to decide amongst.

Actually the price of the GDS1054B has always been on par with the DS1054Z. Only the former wasn't hackable until recently.

[Fungus]

Actually the GDS1054B price has always been on par with the DS1054Z. Only the former wasn't hackable until recently.

Yep. The historical problem was that it wasn't hackable, it had no serial decoders, etc. As a 50MHz device with few features it didn't compete.

haven't been following the details but in the last six months it seems to have been hacked to 200MHz and a load of extra features added to it through hacking. It seems to use a plugin architecture and people have figured out how to make plugins.

[ebastler]

I would expect more real opinions from the end users instead of a few re-sellers fighting here.

   Tautech is, and rf-loop (I believe) was a re-seller for Siglent. Everybody else here is an end user without affiliation with any manufacturer, to my knowledge. If anybody does have a vested interest in any of the brands (beyond pride of ownership ;-), it would be the right thing to disclose that here.

[BillB]

I would expect more real opinions from the end users instead of a few re-sellers fighting here.

   Tautech is, and rf-loop (I believe) was a re-seller for Siglent. Everybody else here is an end user without affiliation with any manufacturer, to my knowledge. If anybody does have a vested interest in any of the brands (beyond pride of ownership ;-), it would be the right thing to disclose that here.

I'll chime-in as a Siglent brand user as well.  Being primarily exposed to/and having history with the A brands through my work, I had followed the lesser brand market with curiosity for a long time.  I really hadn't taken them seriously nor spent much time considering them, however, seeing that many were moving to an embedded Linux architecture changed my mind.

I decided to outfit a "mini-lab" at home to investigate what some of these devices could offer and to see how they competed.  I researched most of the brands discussed, and partially based on features/price/availability and partially just arbitrarily I chose to buy a suite of Siglent products.  Frankly, for the price I was shocked at how much functionality they offered.  While they weren't quite as polished as the A brands, and have some quirks/bugs, the response from all the technical support resources (here online as well as the US distributor) has been timely and appropriate.

I suspect that most users like myself in this market probably followed a similar path and have much more experience with one B brand than the others, so I can't make direct comparisons.  What I can say is that I have not been disappointed in the equipment I selected.  In fact, I've even purchased more units for my work office where I don't need critical top-of-the-line performance/accuracy/etc, but just need something that works and doesn't disappear from my desk.

I'll also add that the people on this forum, including tautech and rf-loop, have been extremely helpful and responsive and are a great resource no matter which brand you choose. 

[Fungus]

the response from all the technical support resources (here online as well as the US distributor) has been timely and appropriate.

Reading between the lines, a lot of your positive impression seems to be based on the support network. It's worth noting that most non-business users (ie. the target for these cheap 'scopes) who buy a single unit simply won't get any of that.

[tv84]

I would expect more real opinions from the end users instead of a few re-sellers fighting here.

   Tautech is, and rf-loop (I believe) was a re-seller for Siglent. Everybody else here is an end user without affiliation with any manufacturer, to my knowledge. If anybody does have a vested interest in any of the brands (beyond pride of ownership ;-), it would be the right thing to disclose that here.

From my distant PoV, I see many "non-affiliated" users here that are way more fanatic that the supposed/identified "affiliated" ones!

Affiliated users usually have a degree of responsibility far greater that the other ones because of their professional relationship.

People have the obligation to weight carefully the opinions of sales persons. People don't have to trust everything they say AND they also shouldn't be attacked just by being in the position they are.

It worries me much more the level of "fan-club fanaticism" that some members demonstrate. Many of you demonstrate a great level of knowledge, most of times are saying precisely the same thing in different conditions BUT, just because you are talking of the "opposition's model", then you must bash the other one's argument just to keep this in the "eternal question" realm!

What a waste of good resources! 

[BillB]

the response from all the technical support resources (here online as well as the US distributor) has been timely and appropriate.

Reading between the lines, a lot of your positive impression seems to be based on the support network. It's worth noting that most non-business users (ie. the target for these cheap 'scopes) who buy a single unit simply won't get any of that.

You are right.  I have had positive experiences with Siglent's support network, but I don't understand why a hobbyist wouldn't get the same support I did?  For example, I had a dud SDG1032X AWG at home that failed after a short time and I sent it to Siglent US and they repaired it and turned it around in short order.  I wasn't happy about getting a dud in the first place, in fact, I was quite nervous at that point thinking I had made a big mistake purchasing the suite of products.

However, that is the only issue I have had with any of their equipment and the 3 year warranty is a nice peace of mind.  Though, I could understand that distributors in other countries might not be as helpful as here in the States.  Most all of the other support I received has come from this forum, include tautech, whose help is available to anyone here.
 

[rsjsouza]

I would expect more real opinions from the end users instead of a few re-sellers fighting here.

   Tautech is, and rf-loop (I believe) was a re-seller for Siglent. Everybody else here is an end user without affiliation with any manufacturer, to my knowledge. If anybody does have a vested interest in any of the brands (beyond pride of ownership ;-), it would be the right thing to disclose that here.

From my distant PoV, I see many "non-affiliated" users here that are way more fanatic that the supposed/identified "affiliated" ones!

Affiliated users usually have a degree of responsibility far greater that the other ones because of their professional relationship.

People have the obligation to weight carefully the opinions of sales persons. People don't have to trust everything they say AND they also shouldn't be attacked just by being in the position they are.

It worries me much more the level of "fan-club fanaticism" that some members demonstrate. Many of you demonstrate a great level of knowledge, most of times are saying precisely the same thing in different conditions BUT, just because you are talking of the "opposition's model", then you must bash the other one's argument just to keep this in the "eternal question" realm!

What a waste of good resources! 

And, as usually is the case, the original beginner poster ran away with the whole brouhaha he unintentionally sparked. 

[Gregi]

hey hey, I have been away for a while and now i have red all the comments you guys wrote. My decision is that I will wait for a couple of months to purchase a scope becouse I decided to make a new workshop first

but I am really considering about buying sigilent one....
thank you all for the advices

[tv84]

Don't forget to relaunch the question once the workshop is finished!   

[Old Printer]

I have always been a bit naive, so may be doing it again. Tautech has helped a lot of people with countless scope/awg questions and problems. most Siglent based, but not all. He has done in depth research to offer solutions to various problems, which sometimes takes days and several posts. He is openly the New Zealand distributor for Siglent, so helping a guy from Romania or the states is unlikely to foster a sale for him. Maybe Siglent pays him by the post, I don't know, but I see no one in a similar position for either Rigol or GWS doing anything remotely as useful. Maybe my naivety prevents me from seeing the actual goings on, I don't know.

[ebastler]

Tautech has helped a lot of people with countless scope/awg questions and problems. most Siglent based, but not all. ...
He is openly the New Zealand distributor for Siglent, so helping a guy from Romania or the states is unlikely to foster a sale for him. Maybe Siglent pays him by the post, I don't know, ...

Well, Tautech obviously has a (financial) interest in making sure that Siglent products are seen in a positive light on this forum. That will affect purchasing decisions in New Zealand, among many others, and hence some of the benefit will come his way.

That being said, there's no doubt that Tautech is both highly knowledgeable and very helpful! It is no coincidence that he is among the top three in the forum's "number of thanked posts" ranking.

Tautech's advice is always solid, and has brought quite a few new insights for me. But it is also true that he tends to stress the strengths of Siglent products, and I have rarely seen him point out their limitations or weaknesses. (Understandably so.) That's what I meant when, several posts ago, I mentioned that we had "only" users speak about Rigol and GW-Instek, while the two Siglent advocates/experts have a different background.

[Fungus]

Well, Tautech obviously has a (financial) interest in making sure that Siglent products are seen in a positive light on this forum. That will affect purchasing decisions in New Zealand, among many others, and hence some of the benefit will come his way.

Yep. It makes no difference where forum readers live.

That being said, there's no doubt that Tautech is both highly knowledgeable and very helpful! It is no coincidence that he is among the top three in the forum's "number of thanked posts" ranking.

Agree.

Tautech's advice is always solid, and has brought quite a few new insights for me. But it is also true that he tends to stress the strengths of Siglent products, and I have rarely seen him point out their limitations or weaknesses.

Yep. Reading pro-Siglent posts here you'll get the impression that they're all rainbows and unicorns which simply isn't true.

You might also get the impression that the Rigol DS1054Z is rubbish. That simply isn't true either, it has a lot of very good things in its favor. The problem is that every single thread that mentions one turns into a flame-fest with Rigol owners appearing to be on the "defensive".

The simple fact is that these two scopes don't cost the same amount of money. If we were comparing a Ford Fiesta and a Ford Focus then everybody would be so busy pointing that out that any other argument would be moot. If the argument is that we should "always buy the best tool possible" then why stop at Siglent/Ford Focus? Why not save up for a Rolls Royce (or look for a second hand one)?

Question: Would you really feel the difference between a Ford Focus and a Ford Fiesta on the daily commute? Both have air-con, about the same amount of leg room and optional leather seats. Both can do the weekly shop, too.

TLDR version; Siglent's aren't Ferraris.

[RFDUK]

Some experience I would like to add about brand promotion on the forum from 'distributors' ...

Late 2017, early 2018 Siglent had a production issue with their SSA spectrum analyser. Work on this forum helped resolve this.
I received a 'faulty' instrument, returned it. 2nd instrument had the same fault but worse. I concluded Siglent had a problem and let the supplier (Batronix) know the technical details to tell the factory.

I did a fair bit of research along with other owners on this forum to at least fully describe and understand the nature of the issue. The forum at large was spectacularly helpful in doing this and I've no doubt many on lookers learned new stuff along the way too. All good.

Longer wait this time and eventually Siglent found their issue and delivered a 3rd instrument well inside spec. They had found and corrected the problem.

Now to the point. A Siglent distributor input to the thread at the time was particularly unhelpful and patronising:

Example Post 1 … 'We can go witch hunting spurs all year'

Then later realising this problem was 'real' ...

Example Post 2 … 'All readers can be very sure Siglent are informed of this matter and are working on and watching developments.
They have indicated that they will inform ‘us’ (means DISTRIBUTORS) of their findings, in what detail and when, only time will tell.
It is my view to leave them to fully investigate why spurs do not meet spec and not press them for fast and short answers'

This is nothing but a blatant effort to close down discussion?

At the time I seriously doubted my decision to buy Siglent if this was the quality of the field support. Once I'd calmed down I realised I should just concentrate on my comms with Batronix and consequently found Siglent very helpful in resolving the issue through that channel.

Truth is the work done on the forum was extremely helpful to Siglent, without it they would probably have shipped many more out of spec instruments.

Forum 'likes' are often placed by sincere folks in praise of help given. Lots of posts can mean lots of likes. However in isolation they obviously don't necessarily reflect the quality of the advice given?

A year on the Siglent instrument has worked flawlessly and in hindsight provides much more for the price than the nearest competitor.

[Fungus]

Example Post 2 … 'All readers can be very sure Siglent are informed of this matter and are working on and watching developments.
They have indicated that they will inform ‘us’ (means DISTRIBUTORS) of their findings, in what detail and when, only time will tell.
It is my view to leave them to fully investigate why spurs do not meet spec and not press them for fast and short answers'

This is nothing but a blatant effort to close down discussion?

Yep, and now if you head over to the "Should I buy a Rigol MSO5000 thread" you'll find the Siglent boys people telling you to not buy a Rigol because it's completely unusable because of all the bugs, that the bugs will take many years to fix, that Rigol is a garbage manufacturer, etc.

Meanwhile the Rigol owners simply aren't seeing those problems.

Who are we going to believe?

[tautech]

Example Post 2 … 'All readers can be very sure Siglent are informed of this matter and are working on and watching developments.
They have indicated that they will inform ‘us’ (means DISTRIBUTORS) of their findings, in what detail and when, only time will tell.
It is my view to leave them to fully investigate why spurs do not meet spec and not press them for fast and short answers'

This is nothing but a blatant effort to close down discussion?

Yep, and now if you head over to the "Should I buy a Rigol MSO5000 thread" you'll find the Siglent boys people telling you to not buy a Rigol because it's completely unusable because of all the bugs, that the bugs will take many years to fix, that Rigol is a garbage manufacturer, etc.

Meanwhile the Rigol owners simply aren't seeing those problems.

Who are we going to believe?

Well not you as you have some facts totally wrong !

Your 'Siglent boy' is not currently a Siglent DSO owner and in fact is a strong critic of Siglent DSO's !

Fungus, again you have failed to do your homework !

[Fungus]

Fungus, again you have failed to do your homework !

OK, I get 0/10 for quoting, but the main point still stands.

[tv84]

Tautech's advice is always solid, and has brought quite a few new insights for me. But it is also true that he tends to stress the strengths of Siglent products, and I have rarely seen him point out their limitations or weaknesses. (Understandably so.) That's what I meant when, several posts ago, I mentioned that we had "only" users speak about Rigol and GW-Instek, while the two Siglent advocates/experts have a different background.

If it was any other way, I would find it extremely strange!!

But another important thing that is worth mentioning:

Tautech is always available to forward any bugs/problems to Siglent, from anyone!

Unfortunately I don't see any of the "Rigol boys" do that for Rigol! That would be a great service to the forum.