Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[dl6lr]

BTW: The HP firmware programmer must have smoked something silly. They coded a simple negation for the head select as follows (CL contains 0x00 or 0x01):

Code: [Select]

       f000:9279 f6 c1 ff        TEST       CL,0xff                                         
       f000:927c 74 02           JZ         HEAD0
       f000:927e b1 ff           MOV        CL,0xff                                         
                             HEAD0                                           XREF[1]:     f000:927c(j) 
       f000:9280 fe c1           INC        CL


Can you now duplicate program disks?

Maybe the code had multi head HDD something earlier.

I can now run the applications from the disc images, yes. And write data and menus to them as well.

Regarding the code multi-head: That will not work, as there is only one bit in the DISCLATCH register for head selection and the function directly sets it.
And if you check the code:
CL=0 -> JZ HEAD0 -> INC CL -> CL now 1
CL != 0 -> MOV CL, 0xFF -> INC CL -> CL now 0

After that the code ORes the CL with the previous saved contents of the DISCLATCH and outputs the result. So it sets/unsets bit 2 for the head selection.
I alwas thought x86 assembler is uninituitive and I have avoided to look at it if ever possible, but even I can imagine easier and clearer ways to handle this negation(AND CL, 0x01, XOR CL, 0x01, ...)
My code would be:

Code: [Select]

       f000:9279 80 e1 01                AND    CL,0x1
       f000:927c 80 f1 01                XOR    CL,0x1

Whole code from the ROM, disassembled with Ghidra and documented by me:

Code: [Select]

                             **************************************************************
                             *                          FUNCTION                          *
                             **************************************************************
                             void __stdcall16near DISCLATCH_SELECT_HEAD(word head)
             void              <VOID>         <RETURN>
             word              Stack[0x2]:2   head                                    XREF[1]:     f000:9276(*) 
                             DISCLATCH_SELECT_HEAD
       f000:9271 55              PUSH       BP
       f000:9272 8b ec           MOV        BP,SP
       f000:9274 50              PUSH       AX
       f000:9275 51              PUSH       CX
       f000:9276 8b 4e 04        MOV        CX,word ptr [BP + head]
       f000:9279 f6 c1 ff        TEST       CL,0xff                                          A little bit strange coded: head can be 0 or 1. If "no bits are set", this is head 0 and we jump. incrementing 0 to 0x01 and rotating it left two bits to set HDSEL output to 1
       f000:927c 74 02           JZ         HEAD0
       f000:927e b1 ff           MOV        CL,0xff                                          Now for head 1: CL is set to 0xFF, then incremented to 0x00, then rotated two bits, so we set a zero to the HDSEL output
                             HEAD0                                           XREF[1]:     f000:927c(j) 
       f000:9280 fe c1           INC        CL
       f000:9282 f8              CLC
       f000:9283 d0 c1           ROL        CL,1
       f000:9285 d0 c1           ROL        CL,1
       f000:9287 a0 fc 70        MOV        AL,[0x70fc]                                      fetch DISCLATCH_SAVE
       f000:928a 24 fb           AND        AL,0xfb                                          AND it with 0x11111011 (HDSEL bit set to zero only)
       f000:928c 0a c1           OR         AL,CL                                            OR in the negated head
       f000:928e e6 80           OUT        0x80,AL                                          set DISCLATCH
       f000:9290 a2 fc 70        MOV        [0x70fc],AL                                      and save it to DISCLATCH_SAVE
       f000:9293 59              POP        CX
       f000:9294 58              POP        AX
       f000:9295 5d              POP        BP
       f000:9296 c2 02 00        RET        0x2

I suppose this is generated by a compiler. At that time we[TM] used a lot PL/M-86 and the code it produced was very clear and predictable. I wrote device drivers for multi processor communication for interfacing iRMX-286 protected mode OS with iRMX-86 real mode OS, a lot of test software and while I needed some output for internal states, I accidentally invented a "GUI" for a machine on a text terminal when the customer had a glance at my screen...

[Specmaster]

I have been with this thread since page 3. And since then I have contributed literally hundreds of hours of my time devoted to test equipment tear downs, repairs, and restorations. As well as hundreds of accompanying photos. And yep, some off content stuff too. But to suddenly be branded a "bad actor" I find absolutely insulting and unwarranted.

I promise not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out.

Sorry if you feel offended by this as it was not intended to offend. Please note that my background is in network security and as such the term "bad actor" is generally referring to someone trying to break a system. I am not trying to coin anyone here as a criminal or a bad person. All I am stating is that it's the minority that do not agree that are causing the problem here (by continuing to post OT), but at the end of the day, these are the rules and no amount of arguing will change this.

Hmm, can't help but think its the minority who complain that's causing the problem. I've found that to be very true in all situations so far encountered. Just have to take a look around the world today to realise that is the truth, where are the world's trouble spots and who started them, certainly not the vast majority, and I bet the same is true here, its a very small percentage, flexing their muscle, trying it shape something into a mould that fits their belief.

The fact is that this thread has been growing in size and popularity for the last 6 years and it has been the same fairly loose atmosphere throughout that time and we, the thread members have always been the police force and when we think something has overstepped the mark, the members have all collectively rallied around and we returned everything to an even keel again without the need to involve any moderators.

I mentioned before that the only time I can remember we needed any input from the moderators was a few years back when we had a spate of spammers and scammers, and since the moderators did their bit, and very effectively did their bit, we have not had any repeats and for that we all thank you.

I saw a comment about some members not being able to track a project through because of the other postings, well that is perhaps they should have looked at the other threads on the forum, because if someone does project, ie, a restoration, a modification, a new build project etc, they have started a thread in either the "Repair", "Projects" or under one of the many other dedicated threads to a particular type of instrument, so the entire project / repair etc is all there in one location from start to finish, as well as being in this TEA thread for the regulars here. All that those people who have claimed (falsely) that they cannot trace it through here, perhaps they need to learn to use the search function and or go and explore the other sections and threads, its all there in plain sight for everyones benefit.

[Squarewave]

I don't think it's fair to say that some have claimed falsely. There are times on here where there is some useful information, then it gets lost in pages of general rubbish, it's a shame, but it has happened.

[Specmaster]

I don't think it's fair to say that some have claimed falsely. There are times on here where there is some useful information, then it gets lost in pages of general rubbish, it's a shame, but it has happened.

Well to be fair, I was talking about a specific repair etc rather than maybe a couple of lines in a post, or maybe a link to thread, video etc. I will admit that the search tool on this platform is not the best, but it is the best that we have to offer here, but then Google can be your friend. I have in the best googled for something and it has returned a link to posts that I did a while ago which contained the words that was I was searching for.

[Specmaster]

At last, I have actually got round to replacing the 12 digit LED displays in 2 of my Commodore calculators which was enabled thanks to the generosity of a fellow member austfox from Australia who had a couple of spare displays in his collection and the postman finally delivered them today.

The display was fitted without any drama at all, but the second one did cause me concern when I went to solder the ribbon cable onto the display, shock horror, I discovered that I had one core unconnected at the end 

Back I go and double-checked all the freshly soldered connections and yep, not a single one was missing  The display has 20 connections, the other 2 calculators also only had 20 connections and all cables were correctly located and soldered and were working. So what was happening here, then, was I going mad, had the excessive heat (33C) in my lab finally sent me round the twist, had I become dehydrated and seeing things. Nope, I counted the cores and there was 21 of them, panic began to set in, how could I make such a mistake 

Switched on my trusty Ti1906 bench meter, put it into continuity mode and checked the connections through, 1 to 20 were correct so what was 21 doing and where was I going to connect it, then it struck me (working blind), no service data available I checked to see if connection 21 appeared anywhere else on the PCB of the main board, I mean it was certainly soldered onto connection 21 of the display board, so it had to go somewhere right? Wrong, turned out it had no connections on the main board so begs the question, why was it there, why did they go to the trouble of having special boards made for the main and display, just to terminate a core that did nothing, why not just rip that core away from the ribbon 

Anyway, here is a shot of all 3 of them showing every digit and all the correct segments works 




Also while I'm here, I'd like to publicly thank factory for his generosity as well in sending me the required power supply to feed the Ti58 with the required 8.2Vac in order to charge the internally fitted Ni Cad cells, so I no longer have to lash-up cables to my bench power supply to charge them

Now I'm looking for a suitable donor calculator to give some parts to allow me to get its sister calculator, the Ti59 working, with or without the read / write magnetic card feature, I'd be happy just to get it working as a manually programmable calculator and see its red LEDs glow once again, something about those bubble displays, I love them.

[Specmaster]

Good grief, I go to work for a few hours and when I come back I find things have gone thermo-nuclear... whatever happened to moderation (with a small "m") in all things?   

Currently waiting for some Fluke Suregrip croc clips to turn up that I got for Not Very Much. In the mean time I have to be happy with a couple of Metcal SCV-CH50 tips for Next To Nothing (have 4 NIB now, should last me until the apocalypse) that arrived yesterday and a Starrett outside micrometer, 0-25mm, that came today, for A Quite Reasonable Price.

Hopefully things calm down around here and we can get back to mostly TE posts with a sprinkling of off-topic, so the Moderators (with a capital "M") can leave us alone.

Like you, I've just got back home and came online to post about my new LED displays and talk about an issue I had with one of them and hen I went out I'd had a post deleted, and now it looks like a meteoroid has crashed into the thread and left a huge crater and a mess in its wake. Before I post about my TE today, I think I'd better go back a bit and read the posts to see if I can work out the status quo around here again. 

You mean this post?: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4375849/#msg4375849

Er, no, not that one but the one where I was enquiring about the well being of a fellow member who had just been involved in a RTA where his car was rammed from behind while his family where in it and the culprit legged it.

[factory]

...
Crazy how when you put something aside to work on it 'later' just how quickly 'later' can turn into years.  I've done the same.  Sadly, those decoders are like hen's teeth.

-Pat

Nobody tried to build a discrete replacement? A quick look in the service manual shows that is a simple BCD-to-10line decoder, with high voltage outputs; it should be pretty straightforward way to build them, and look like there's room to mount the boards vertically in the place of the old IC's.

I was actually thinking about it today.  May try to cobble something together, either to fit a 74141 (also nearing hens-teeth status) or the Russian equivalent (can’t recall the number off the top of my head), or perhaps a low voltage BCD to 10 line decoder with switching transistors, though that’d be much bulkier.

-Pat

Do SMD; CD4028B(SOIC-16) as decoder, PBHV8050SA(SOT-23) as switchers, 0603 R&C, and install it something like below. If you need some help, I can quickly draw something. PM if interested.

I'll get OrCAD fired up and play around with a design.

-Pat

The HP 1820-0092 decoder/drive IC uses negative logic, I believe they used the BCD 10 to 15 (no output) for blanking in some counters.



I started making a prototype based on a 74141, with a surface mount 7400 (connected as inverters) stuck on the back, unfortunately ...OT would get deleted... got in the way & it never got finished, probably lost my notes by now. 

The idea was to eventually use some miniature USSR made 74141 clones I bought & the 7400 on a small surface mount board, leadframe connections would be preferable to pin headers, to allow easier removal from the HP board if it were to fail.
Unfortunately trying to make a package layout in KiCad, for the miniature 74141 clone is a problem for me, still need to properly learn KiCad. Thinking about it, it might be difficult to get the datasheet for the USSR made miniature decoder/driver IC now, don't want to get my PC hacked/attacked for looking at .ru sites (this was mentioned on another forum relating to web SDR).

Also might need several different board designs, depending on the space available, for example the 5221 has lots of space above the IC, but limited clearance to push the board into the plastic frame.



Will try an add some pictures of the bits later, can't find any on the PC.

David

Well the almost finished prototype with a 74141 & 7400 (used as inverters for the negative logic inputs) is currently still lost.  But I have just found the miniature decoder/driver ICs I bought a year or two ago, they are КМ133ИД1 (made post USSR collapse, wonder where exactly they are from  ) and I did save a picture of the datasheet, needs a bit of google translate, but that shouldn't be a problem.





I already have a test board, which I built to test both; the salvaged driver ICs & the dodgy inverted number readout bulbs. I believe the decoder/driver IC fitted is the only one that works properly and yes there are several HP part numbers for these.
The test board has a 10 position BCD switch (could do with changing to 16 position one), going through a 7404 to invert the BCD, to the required negative logic for the HP decoder/driver IC, this is then hardwired a Cinch connector for a display board*, some more LEDs were going to be added for the BCD, but this never got finished.







*The little display board is from a joblot of boards bought about 15 years ago, whoever scrapped all the equipment cost themselves a lot of money, as several of the others were from a quite scarce & early electronic calculator. 

P.S. it's interesting to see the other ideas for making replacements too. 

Edit: Just done a google image search & download some pictures that should give all the info I need on the КМ133ИД1 IC.




David

[Specmaster]

Greetings fellow Test Equipment Addicts,

Back in January of 2017, when Test Equipment Anonymous began as a combination of personal reflection on my own joy of test gear, the admission by several like-minded folks of their symptoms of Gear Acquisition Syndrome, and a somewhat tongue-in-cheek parallel to more serious organizations whose names end in "Anonymous", I of course couldn't foresee just how many others were like us.

The discussion of our ailments began with a 12-step program, but not wanting to derail the thread in which it was first posted, a new thread was started for TEA. Over the next five years, the TEA thread and the TEA Glossary grew along with its community of like-minded, self-governing individuals who found camaraderie in more things than just test equipment.

Today, the TEA thread contains 20% of the posts of the Test Equipment forum. It dwarfs the size and views of any other thread on EEVblog. Clearly, the TEA community needs more than a single thread to accommodate the diversity of its members and the richness of the discussions that we have always had.

Thus, TEA has a new home at https://groups.io/g/tea and TEA Time live chat on Saturdays at 21:00 UTC will continue as before.

Thank you, Dave Jones, for your ongoing commitment to bringing electronics to the masses and for putting up with our TEA nuttiness over the years.

I look forward to seeing you all at the new TEA House.

bitseeker
TEA founder and fellow addict

TBH, I think that the real problem on this particular thread has been that many people have failed to fully grasp just what that "Anonymous" really means, they see the Test Gear bit and totally ignore the caveat, or fail to accept that this is anything but a full on hardcore technical discussion group. Yes it can be just that but as you rightly point out, it is so much more, just like the other "Anonymous" organisations are.

[tautech]

TBH IMO it's best we all take a step back and not further provoke the issue and instead ponder the outcome.

gnif has listened and we now need thank him for such however a member or 2 has a 1 week stand down so well miss their contributions until they return.

Deep breaths and peace should instead be the order of the day.

[Cerebus]

however a member or 2 has a 1 week stand down so well miss their contributions until they return.

Lest some jump to conclusions that aren't warranted I'd just like to point out that willing silence is not evidence of forced silence. There are a significant number of people who were not given a "time out" who are taking a big step back. Just because you don't hear from some people, don't assume that they were sanctioned.

[Zoli]

Well the almost finished prototype with a 74141 & 7400 (used as inverters for the negative logic inputs) is currently still lost.  But I have just found the miniature decoder/driver ICs I bought a year or two ago, they are КМ133ИД1 (made post USSR collapse, wonder where exactly they are from  ) and I did save a picture of the datasheet, needs a bit of google translate, but that shouldn't be a problem.





I already have a test board, which I built to test both; the salvaged driver ICs & the dodgy inverted number readout bulbs. I believe the decoder/driver IC fitted is the only one that works properly and yes there are several HP part numbers for these.
The test board has a 10 position BCD switch (could do with changing to 16 position one), going through a 7404 to invert the BCD, to the required negative logic for the HP decoder/driver IC, this is then hardwired a Cinch connector for a display board*, some more LEDs were going to be added for the BCD, but this never got finished.







*The little display board is from a joblot of boards bought about 15 years ago, whoever scrapped all the equipment cost themselves a lot of money, as several of the others were from a quite scarce & early electronic calculator. 

P.S. it's interesting to see the other ideas for making replacements too. 

Edit: Just done a google image search & download some pictures that should give all the info I need on the КМ133ИД1 IC.




David

Seeing way too many Nixie instrument disposed because of the display drivers, I think It's time to make a proper replacement for them.
First,  a little background: the driver IC's had been developed in the 60's, and it was a serious really push to make them work "reliable^*". Meantime, in the 90's the low power high voltage processes had became mature: CRT video outputs.
Modulating mA's-10's of mA's up to 300V for decades without fail - sounds familiar? And now they're available in SMT(BF820, formerly BF420(in TO-92) is an example), so since the mid 90's the replacement is reality - a more bulkier then the original, but with creative thinking is always applicable. As future, I can see(and maybe I will design&build) a drop-in replacement, but at the moment let's focus on building a reliable and flexible replacement for the Nixie drivers.
^*Building transistors for 200V on a process which is good for <50V - these are the Nixie drivers.

however a member or 2 has a 1 week stand down so well miss their contributions until they return.

Lest some jump to conclusions that aren't warranted I'd just like to point out that willing silence is not evidence of forced silence. There are a significant number of people who were not given a "time out" who are taking a big step back. Just because you don't hear from some people, don't assume that they were sanctioned.

Thank you Captain Obvious for the usual OT.

[factory]

I know, it's kind of pointless designing something using those KM133ID1 driver ICs, but I would like to use the five I bought (cost $20 including P&P in 2020). The seller I got those post Soviet era (1992 made) ICs from is on holiday till 2031 (for obvious reasons), the only miniature versions available now are the older ones in a ceramic package, with a nice conductive back. 



There are several completely incompatible decoder/driver ICs used in old TE including; the 74141, the HP 1820-0092 and the uLogic 996079.

David

[AVGresponding]

I know, it's kind of pointless designing something using those KM133ID1 driver ICs, but I would like to use the five I bought (cost $20 including P&P in 2020). The seller I got those post Soviet era (1992 made) ICs from is on holiday till 2031 (for obvious reasons), the only miniature versions available now are the older ones in a ceramic package, with a nice conductive back. 



There are several completely incompatible decoder/driver ICs used in old TE including; the 74141, the HP 1820-0092 and the uLogic 996079.

David

Presumably for better heatsinking..?

[Robert763]

Hmm, just bought a seaward PAT tester on ebay. A 2000i for £8.20 INCLUDING shipping.
I only want the flash test lead which is missing from my Supernova. It's parts or not working, but typically it probably is working when I don't care.

[m k]

BTW: The HP firmware programmer must have smoked something silly. They coded a simple negation for the head select as follows (CL contains 0x00 or 0x01):

Code: [Select]

       f000:9279 f6 c1 ff        TEST       CL,0xff                                         
       f000:927c 74 02           JZ         HEAD0
       f000:927e b1 ff           MOV        CL,0xff                                         
                             HEAD0                                           XREF[1]:     f000:927c(j) 
       f000:9280 fe c1           INC        CL


Can you now duplicate program disks?

Maybe the code had multi head HDD something earlier.

I can now run the applications from the disc images, yes. And write data and menus to them as well.

Regarding the code multi-head: That will not work, as there is only one bit in the DISCLATCH register for head selection and the function directly sets it.
And if you check the code:
CL=0 -> JZ HEAD0 -> INC CL -> CL now 1
CL != 0 -> MOV CL, 0xFF -> INC CL -> CL now 0

After that the code ORes the CL with the previous saved contents of the DISCLATCH and outputs the result. So it sets/unsets bit 2 for the head selection.
I alwas thought x86 assembler is uninituitive and I have avoided to look at it if ever possible, but even I can imagine easier and clearer ways to handle this negation(AND CL, 0x01, XOR CL, 0x01, ...)
My code would be:

Code: [Select]

       f000:9279 80 e1 01                AND    CL,0x1
       f000:927c 80 f1 01                XOR    CL,0x1

Whole code from the ROM, disassembled with Ghidra and documented by me:

Code: [Select]

                             **************************************************************
                             *                          FUNCTION                          *
                             **************************************************************
                             void __stdcall16near DISCLATCH_SELECT_HEAD(word head)
             void              <VOID>         <RETURN>
             word              Stack[0x2]:2   head                                    XREF[1]:     f000:9276(*) 
                             DISCLATCH_SELECT_HEAD
       f000:9271 55              PUSH       BP
       f000:9272 8b ec           MOV        BP,SP
       f000:9274 50              PUSH       AX
       f000:9275 51              PUSH       CX
       f000:9276 8b 4e 04        MOV        CX,word ptr [BP + head]
       f000:9279 f6 c1 ff        TEST       CL,0xff                                          A little bit strange coded: head can be 0 or 1. If "no bits are set", this is head 0 and we jump. incrementing 0 to 0x01 and rotating it left two bits to set HDSEL output to 1
       f000:927c 74 02           JZ         HEAD0
       f000:927e b1 ff           MOV        CL,0xff                                          Now for head 1: CL is set to 0xFF, then incremented to 0x00, then rotated two bits, so we set a zero to the HDSEL output
                             HEAD0                                           XREF[1]:     f000:927c(j) 
       f000:9280 fe c1           INC        CL
       f000:9282 f8              CLC
       f000:9283 d0 c1           ROL        CL,1
       f000:9285 d0 c1           ROL        CL,1
       f000:9287 a0 fc 70        MOV        AL,[0x70fc]                                      fetch DISCLATCH_SAVE
       f000:928a 24 fb           AND        AL,0xfb                                          AND it with 0x11111011 (HDSEL bit set to zero only)
       f000:928c 0a c1           OR         AL,CL                                            OR in the negated head
       f000:928e e6 80           OUT        0x80,AL                                          set DISCLATCH
       f000:9290 a2 fc 70        MOV        [0x70fc],AL                                      and save it to DISCLATCH_SAVE
       f000:9293 59              POP        CX
       f000:9294 58              POP        AX
       f000:9295 5d              POP        BP
       f000:9296 c2 02 00        RET        0x2

I suppose this is generated by a compiler. At that time we[TM] used a lot PL/M-86 and the code it produced was very clear and predictable. I wrote device drivers for multi processor communication for interfacing iRMX-286 protected mode OS with iRMX-86 real mode OS, a lot of test software and while I needed some output for internal states, I accidentally invented a "GUI" for a machine on a text terminal when the customer had a glance at my screen...

DEC minions was my group so we had fancy things from the beginning.

Later GUI was int 21h ah=09

So the code is not optimized from
cmp cl, 0
mov cl, 4
jz over
mov cl, 0

How is that other copy protection, still unknown?
Simple read error should be visible somewhere in the ROM.

I remember one style where the disk had an extra hole and if memory serves it was also written over during every use.
The hole was also much smaller than index and sort of hand made stylish.

[dl6lr]

How is that other copy protection, still unknown?

No. Using IBM34 format:

• Cylinders 0...76 both heads are formatted normally
• Cylinder 77 both heads and 78 head 0 is not formatted
• Cylinder 78 head 1 is formatted with sector marks track=150, sector id=17...32 (WD is instructed to NOT verify track id)
• Cylinder 79 both heads is formatted with sector marks track=79, sector id=96...111

[TaylorD93]

What is the general opinion of THANDAR TS302x series Linear Power supplies?

In the past 12 months i have picked up two TS3021 (30V, 2A single channel) and a TS3022 (30V, 2A, Dual channel, no tracking/series/parallel options), the displays are LCD displays rather than the brighter 7 Segment LED displays of the older PL320 etc series. But they seem to be a good solid design. The Dual channel PSU could do with the additional modes for series/tracking etc. But as two Isolated PSU's they are perfectly usable

The do use the same output switches as the PL series which are difficult to get hold of now.

But they sell quite cheaply on ebay and doesnt seem to have much demand? I just picked up a TS3021 for £30 + £15 shipping, but an equivalent PL320 would easily be £70+

am i missing something?

[Specmaster]

What is the general opinion of THANDAR TS302x series Linear Power supplies?

In the past 12 months i have picked up two TS3021 (30V, 2A single channel) and a TS3022 (30V, 2A, Dual channel, no tracking/series/parallel options), the displays are LCD displays rather than the brighter 7 Segment LED displays of the older PL320 etc series. But they seem to be a good solid design. The Dual channel PSU could do with the additional modes for series/tracking etc. But as two Isolated PSU's they are perfectly usable

The do use the same output switches as the PL series which are difficult to get hold of now.

But they sell quite cheaply on ebay and doesnt seem to have much demand? I just picked up a TS3021 for £30 + £15 shipping, but an equivalent PL320 would easily be £70+

am i missing something?

I have 3 of these, 2 with the LEDs and the other LCD, single units, 2 x 2A and 1 x 1A, and they have been rock solid for the period I have had them for, 3 years and recently I picked up a 2A twin unit. Cant fault them apart from, they can be difficult to set up for very low voltages < 2v.

[factory]

They are excellent supplies, we had about 10 of the TS3022 at work, in intermittent use for more than 20 years, no major problems that I can remember.

David

[factory]

I know, it's kind of pointless designing something using those KM133ID1 driver ICs, but I would like to use the five I bought (cost $20 including P&P in 2020). The seller I got those post Soviet era (1992 made) ICs from is on holiday till 2031 (for obvious reasons), the only miniature versions available now are the older ones in a ceramic package, with a nice conductive back. 



There are several completely incompatible decoder/driver ICs used in old TE including; the 74141, the HP 1820-0092 and the uLogic 996079.

David

Presumably for better heatsinking..?

Maybe, I guess whatever they were intended for wouldn't be as crammed as an adaptor board & wouldn't need traces running underneath.

David

[factory]

Hmm, just bought a seaward PAT tester on ebay. A 2000i for £8.20 INCLUDING shipping.
I only want the flash test lead which is missing from my Supernova. It's parts or not working, but typically it probably is working when I don't care.

Faulty leads was the reason a new machine got purchased at work years ago, the guy from maintenance tried the new lead with the old machine, which then worked fine), then saw £££ signs and bought the old machine as scrap to resell on ePay, this is one reason why it's hard to obtain redundant/defective TE now (certain managers were very unhappy about the reselling).  The 2000i must be quite an old one, as there was one in the junk room at work, last time I looked.

David

[Squarewave]

If you could pick between the Tek TDS320 and the HP 54602B which would you go for and why? I've been lusting over a digitising CRT scope for a while....

[simba15]

If you could pick between the Tek TDS320 and the HP 54602B which would you go for and why? I've been lusting over a digitising CRT scope for a while....

I am curious of others members input aswell, I seem to always be tossing between of buying a cheap new scope for a few $$ ( Hantek 2C10, $199) or go for one of these well known CRT scopes. ( usually around the same price.)

I just missed a Agilent 54622D, with some minor issues. It went for best offer(Damm!)

Another variant I am curious of the TDS410, seems very similar to TDS310.

[AVGresponding]

I know, it's kind of pointless designing something using those KM133ID1 driver ICs, but I would like to use the five I bought (cost $20 including P&P in 2020). The seller I got those post Soviet era (1992 made) ICs from is on holiday till 2031 (for obvious reasons), the only miniature versions available now are the older ones in a ceramic package, with a nice conductive back. 



There are several completely incompatible decoder/driver ICs used in old TE including; the 74141, the HP 1820-0092 and the uLogic 996079.

David

Presumably for better heatsinking..?

Maybe, I guess whatever they were intended for wouldn't be as crammed as an adaptor board & wouldn't need traces running underneath.

David

If it's Soviet era stuff it's probably high current/voltage like low efficiency LEDs, number tubes, don't know if they had anything like Panaplex?

[AVGresponding]

If you could pick between the Tek TDS320 and the HP 54602B which would you go for and why? I've been lusting over a digitising CRT scope for a while....

I am curious of others members input aswell, I seem to always be tossing between of buying a cheap new scope for a few $$ ( Hantek 2C10, $199) or go for one of these well known CRT scopes. ( usually around the same price.)

I just missed a Agilent 54622D, with some minor issues. It went for best offer(Damm!)

Another variant I am curious of the TDS410, seems very similar to TDS310.

Depends what you want to do with it. The modern stuff can usually do the I2C etc decoding, which the CRT stuff won't, but if you don't need that, just pick the one with the best set of options fitted, ie more memory = more betterer, maths modules etc. Also if you don't already have any probes, pay attention to whether any are included and if they are a decent brand or an unknown one.

I've a fully optioned TDS420A, it's my main scope despite having a Siglent 1202X-E, and is perfectly capable as long as you're not into RF. I also have an Agilent 54621D, don't use it much but it's a nice UI, nice compact form for a CRT, much easier to move than the Tek.

Of course, the correct TEA answer is, get both...