Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

What's an audiophool? And why are they smashing up chewb gear?

People who pay a lot of money for things they believe will improve the sound of their hifi, including particular subtypes of valve, solid silver loudspeaker cables, particular brands of capacitor and audiophile IEC mains cables. All of this is highly dubious on an engineering basis.

Some valves which were never considered audio valves back in the day, such as E180F and ECC88 have become popular in these circles. E180F had gold flashed pins for solid technical reasons, but gold flashed pins clearly improve the sound.

It's not dubious at all, it's complete bollocks, and they are all fuckwits with more money than sense or morals.

It's all ego. Nothing more.

[Specmaster]

Not much TEA today Went to Ely and amongst other things I visited a charity shop connected to the animal shelter we got our dog from. In a bin was a Canon EOS 40D camera. It said untested due to no battery charger. It did have a body cap, strap, battery and fast 8GB CF card. At £30 it was worth a punt. They offered a refund if it didn't work but I'm not going to ask a charity for  refund... My current DSLR is a EOS 20D bought new back in 2004 for $1400 (in the USA). So this would be a bit of an upgrade.
Got home, charged battery and - nothing, dead. So to TE. Got the Fluke 8060 out. Battery read OK and some continuity across contacts in the camera. However the contacts on the battery looked greasy. So quick wipe with contact cleaner, stuck it back in and it all works. Not a bad DSLR. "only" 10 megapixels but the overall image quality beats the 15 MP 50D that replaced it.

Also got a chance to check the resistance of the Current probe cal fixture Fluke sez Bam 50R (no, not taken with the Canon, it was taken before I went out).
 

That was a jammy find with the 40D, not sure I'd agree about it having a better image capability than the 50D, which I have, I also have the 7D and the 50D is my camera of choice for what I use it for. I find that the reason why I favour it over the 7D, even though the 7D has way more pixels, but the focusing system on the 7D cannot offer me a single spot focus in any quadrant, it always presents me with multiple zones of focus and as such, if shooting through say a chain link fence, will tend to focus more on any part of the fence rather than the plane on the opposite side.  The 40D has the ability to provide me with multiple zone or just a single zone and with the single can shoot through the holes of the fence, ignoring the fence as long I focus on the single spot through it.

The 40D, has 5Mp fewer pixels than the 50D and 2Mp more than the 20D and I find that the 7D has a far better image quality on subjects that are not confused by the multiple focus points, such as a single plane in blue sky. YMMV.

[Specmaster]

I offered some transistors once, they were free to collector.....

And charged to the emitter, I suppose 

Only if they didn't collect from my base.

mnem
Not enough soggy ol' boots in all the land... not near enough...

Dad jokes again 

[Specmaster]

What's an audiophool? And why are they smashing up chewb gear?

People who pay a lot of money for things they believe will improve the sound of their hifi, including particular subtypes of valve, solid silver loudspeaker cables, particular brands of capacitor and audiophile IEC mains cables. All of this is highly dubious on an engineering basis.

Some valves which were never considered audio valves back in the day, such as E180F and ECC88 have become popular in these circles. E180F had gold flashed pins for solid technical reasons, but gold flashed pins clearly improve the sound.

I've even seen adverts for little towers to hold speaker cables up off the floor to improve the sound quality and reduce losses to the floor, presumably by the capacitive effect?   

[tggzzz]

As I said earlier, but obviously too briefly:

Texas Instruments BC183L transistors were used in certain guitar effects units "Fuzz Boxes" obviously you will only get the "right" distortion if you use the same TI transistors

You quite probably will only get the right distortion with that.

If eye of newt, and toe of frog was in the original, then eye of frog and toe of newt simply cannot work.

Well... yes.

[tggzzz]

What's an audiophool? And why are they smashing up chewb gear?

People who pay a lot of money for things they believe will improve the sound of their hifi, including particular subtypes of valve, solid silver loudspeaker cables, particular brands of capacitor and audiophile IEC mains cables. All of this is highly dubious on an engineering basis.

Some valves which were never considered audio valves back in the day, such as E180F and ECC88 have become popular in these circles. E180F had gold flashed pins for solid technical reasons, but gold flashed pins clearly improve the sound.

It's not dubious at all, it's complete bollocks, and they are all fuckwits with more money than sense or morals.

Go on... tell us what you really think. No point in holding back.

[Zenith]

What's an audiophool? And why are they smashing up chewb gear?

People who pay a lot of money for things they believe will improve the sound of their hifi, including particular subtypes of valve, solid silver loudspeaker cables, particular brands of capacitor and audiophile IEC mains cables. All of this is highly dubious on an engineering basis.

Some valves which were never considered audio valves back in the day, such as E180F and ECC88 have become popular in these circles. E180F had gold flashed pins for solid technical reasons, but gold flashed pins clearly improve the sound.

It's not dubious at all, it's complete bollocks, and they are all fuckwits with more money than sense or morals.

I was trying to be a little restrained.

I did toy once with the idea of selling little magnets that could be clipped onto resistors, which would alter the sound in mystic ways, with some load of bs to explain it. You could change the way the magnets were oriented and they would be in various strengths. Buyers could experiment to their heart's content, fancying they were subtly altering the sound and auditioning the various combinations.

[Cerebus]

Not enough soggy ol' boots in all the land... not near enough...

I think on this occasion we can abandon the old soggy boot cannon and instead subcontract the job to Strax:

[AVGresponding]

Well, since you asked nicely...

[srb1954]

Anyone in the UK with a serious amount of HP gear to diagnose? Here's someone (not me) selling almost every HP card extender you could think of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/emjo_90/m.html?item=314114703504&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

McBryce.

This seller is getting some ridiculous bids on a lot of few dozen very used OC44s. What makes these cruddy transistors so valuable ?

[mnementh]

Not enough soggy ol' boots in all the land... not near enough...

I think on this occasion we can abandon the old soggy boot cannon and instead subcontract the job to Strax:

Well of course we shan't soil your conversational cutlery with the likes of them... no telling what the ichor would do to the blades! 

mnem
maybe hire some trolls to sit on them and squish them into jelly...?

[mnementh]

Anyone in the UK with a serious amount of HP gear to diagnose? Here's someone (not me) selling almost every HP card extender you could think of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/emjo_90/m.html?item=314114703504&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

McBryce.

This seller is getting some ridiculous bids on a lot of few dozen very used OC44s. What makes these cruddy transistors so valuable ?

Mullard brand fuzz in your guitar fuzzbox, probably. 

Either that, or the germanium has exactly the right circumpolar crystal orientation, and is the only kind which will serve as a excitation detector in your vintage John Holmes penis pump... 

mnem
*sghetti time*

[srb1954]

As I said earlier, but obviously too briefly:

Texas Instruments BC183L transistors were used in certain guitar effects units "Fuzz Boxes" obviously you will only get the "right" distortion if you use the same TI transistors 

Were BC184Ls used in any fuzz boxes?

I've got several hundred of these that I would definitely sell at those prices!

[Zenith]

Anyone in the UK with a serious amount of HP gear to diagnose? Here's someone (not me) selling almost every HP card extender you could think of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/emjo_90/m.html?item=314114703504&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

McBryce.

This seller is getting some ridiculous bids on a lot of few dozen very used OC44s. What makes these cruddy transistors so valuable ?

The only people I can think of who'd want them are restorers of 1960s transistor radios, which have a bit of a following.

You can get NOS from a few suppliers, but they are over £10.

[srb1954]

Anyone in the UK with a serious amount of HP gear to diagnose? Here's someone (not me) selling almost every HP card extender you could think of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/emjo_90/m.html?item=314114703504&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

McBryce.

This seller is getting some ridiculous bids on a lot of few dozen very used OC44s. What makes these cruddy transistors so valuable ?

Mullard brand fuzz in your guitar fuzzbox, probably. 

I did a bit of research and it appears that OC44s were used in a fuzz box once favoured by Eric Clapton.

So the fools who buy these transistors at the ridiculously inflated prices obviously think they can sound just like Eric Clapton if only they had the same type of transistor in their fuzz box as Clapton used in his fuzz box 

[Wolfgang]

Is there something I don't know about old TI BC183L trannystors, auction of 20 sold for £210. 
eBay auction: #314026002138



Or much better price from Langrex, 10 for £2.25. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/bc183l-92-npn-transistor-x1opcs/

David

Every day an idiot wakes up, you only have to *find* him. These transistors are absolutely plain vanilla and can be replaced by a dozen of other types. What about a "blind" transistor degustation event ?

[Zenith]

Is there something I don't know about old TI BC183L trannystors, auction of 20 sold for £210. 
eBay auction: #314026002138



Or much better price from Langrex, 10 for £2.25. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/bc183l-92-npn-transistor-x1opcs/

David

Every day an idiot wakes up, you only have to *find* him. These transistors are absolutely plain vanilla and can be replaced by a dozen of other types. What about a "blind" transistor degustation event ?

You only say that because you don't understand the subtly of tone the true artist can extract from a fuzzbox fitted with these extremely fine and rare TI BC183Ls.

Neither do I, but if I come across a bagful at a reasonable price, say 10p each, I'll certainly snap them up and try them on ebay.

[Cubdriver]

What's an audiophool? And why are they smashing up chewb gear?

People who pay a lot of money for things they believe will improve the sound of their hifi, including particular subtypes of valve, solid silver loudspeaker cables, particular brands of capacitor and audiophile IEC mains cables. All of this is highly dubious on an engineering basis.

Some valves which were never considered audio valves back in the day, such as E180F and ECC88 have become popular in these circles. E180F had gold flashed pins for solid technical reasons, but gold flashed pins clearly improve the sound.

Yes, but you have to have the mythical golden ear to hear the difference, because none of our expensive (back in the day) test gear is capable of measuring the incredible increase in the signal quality.  It’s clearly audible (to them) but otherwise immeasurable.  Don’t question, you tin-eared heathen!
       

-Pat

[Cubdriver]

Oh like the ones who take nixie choobs cos they look cool.

A pox on them, and their families!

-Pat

[mnementh]

Is there something I don't know about old TI BC183L trannystors, auction of 20 sold for £210. 
eBay auction: #314026002138



Or much better price from Langrex, 10 for £2.25. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/bc183l-92-npn-transistor-x1opcs/

David

Every day an idiot wakes up, you only have to *find* him. These transistors are absolutely plain vanilla and can be replaced by a dozen of other types. What about a "blind" transistor degustation event ?

You only say that because you don't understand the subtly of tone the true artist can extract from a fuzzbox fitted with these extremely fine and rare TI BC183Ls.

Neither do I, but if I come across a bagful at a reasonable price, say 10p each, I'll certainly snap them up and try them on ebay.

The thing is... with tone modifier projects like fuzzboxes, sometimes the "secret sauce" actually is due to something about a specific part number from a specific brand.

Since many of these "vintage designs" were in fact the product of absolute amateur electronic hobbyists, and the "sound" is produced by abusing the transistor in some fashion... the problem here is not how the transistor works when used as intended by the manufacturer... in that application, almost any transistor of the correct junction type and species would work to some extent. But when you're deliberately overdriving or starving a transistor for current to make it distort, that's another ballgame entirely.

So these transistors might be used in a specific circuit that is considered a "classic" for the sound... and unless you have an original of that circuit to compare to, and all our modern tools at your disposal, you may very well play hell trying to reproduce the sound with a substitute part.

So all the bits of the original recipe are sought out by people trying to recreate that "classic sound"; whether or not a specific part makes a real difference. I mean, yeah, it does have to in theory... germanium BJTs vs silicon... old low ESR caps vs modern high ESR electrolytics, carbon-composite resistors vs filar-cut metal oxide, even noise from the power supply must make some difference. The question is whether all of those differences added up can materially alter that "classic sound".

Just like some people prefer the way certain choobs in a certain amplifier circuit color the sound it is reproducing. All the "wine snob" wankery and audiophool terminology aside... in some cases it does make a difference that can be heard and measured. It's not a matter of how precisely an amplifier reproduces the original signal... there's always some distortion. It's a matter of whether that type and quality of distortion is considered pleasing to the ear.

Which, of course, is highly subjective.

/Devil's Advocate Mode

mnem
we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity.

[Wolfgang]

Is there something I don't know about old TI BC183L trannystors, auction of 20 sold for £210. 
eBay auction: #314026002138



Or much better price from Langrex, 10 for £2.25. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/bc183l-92-npn-transistor-x1opcs/

David

Every day an idiot wakes up, you only have to *find* him. These transistors are absolutely plain vanilla and can be replaced by a dozen of other types. What about a "blind" transistor degustation event ?

You only say that because you don't understand the subtly of tone the true artist can extract from a fuzzbox fitted with these extremely fine and rare TI BC183Ls.

Neither do I, but if I come across a bagful at a reasonable price, say 10p each, I'll certainly snap them up and try them on ebay.

The thing is... with tone modifier projects like fuzzboxes, sometimes the "secret sauce" actually is due to something about a specific part number from a specific brand.

Since many of these "vintage designs" were in fact the product of absolute amateur electronic hobbyists, and the "sound" is produced by abusing the transistor in some fashion... the problem here is not how the transistor works when used as intended by the manufacturer... in that application, almost any transistor of the correct junction type and species would work to some extent. But when you're deliberately overdriving or starving a transistor for current to make it distort, that's another ballgame entirely.

So these transistors might be used in a specific circuit that is considered a "classic" for the sound... and unless you have an original of that circuit to compare to, and all our modern tools at your disposal, you may very well play hell trying to reproduce the sound with a substitute part.

So all the bits of the original recipe are sought out by people trying to recreate that "classic sound"; whether or not a specific part makes a real difference. I mean, yeah, it does have to in theory... germanium BJTs vs silicon... old low ESR caps vs modern high ESR electrolytics, carbon-composite resistors vs filar-cut metal oxide, even noise from the power supply must make some difference. The question is whether all of those differences added up can materially alter that "classic sound".

Just like some people prefer the way certain choobs in a certain amplifier circuit color the sound it is reproducing. All the "wine snob" wankery and audiophool terminology aside... in some cases it does make a difference that can be heard and measured. It's not a matter of how precisely an amplifier reproduces the original signal... there's always some distortion. It's a matter of whether that type and quality of distortion is considered pleasing to the ear.

Which, of course, is highly subjective.

/Devil's Advocate Mode

mnem
we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity.

There arent that many different ways in which a plain vanilla small signal silicon transistor can distort a signal. And - for the BC183, the other BCxxxes, then 2N3904, ... the parameter variations within a type are often larger than the differences between the types, and they change over the years to to chip shrinking and RTP. The magic is between the ears of the beholder ... (hopefully). The circuits used are also no rocket science, so ...

[Cubdriver]

A different Tektronix mug showed up the other day on our favorite bank account evacuation site, so I snagged it.  It arrived today.  Smaller than the cobalt blue one (still my favorite) but nice to have another, different one.



-Pat

[Wolfgang]

A different Tektronix mug showed up the other day on our favorite bank account evacuation site, so I snagged it.  It arrived today.  Smaller than the cobalt blue one (still my favorite) but nice to have another, different one.



-Pat

Yuck. The coffee has a HP-ish color. 

[Cubdriver]

A different Tektronix mug showed up the other day on our favorite bank account evacuation site, so I snagged it.  It arrived today.  Smaller than the cobalt blue one (still my favorite) but nice to have another, different one.



-Pat

Yuck. The coffee has a HP-ish color. 

LOL - First off, I don't think I want Tek-truquiose turquoise coffee - doesn't seem appealing.  Don't think I'll let the creamer get that far 'off'.   

Besides, I like coffee with my sugar and half-and-half.   

-Pat

Edit - I kan tipe.   

[med6753]

Besides, I like coffee with my sugar and half-and-half.   

-Pat

Sugar in coffee? Bleah!   Half-and-half?