Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[factory]

Completely forgot about that one!

-Pat

Only just got it on the right page.   

And it required no repairs, just changed to 230V & fitted the correct fuse. Edit: fuse is same for 115/230V according to the book.


Seem to have zero pictures with the covers fitted.

David

[Saskia]

ye flipping gods of Ferenginar,
the soldering irons were missing in the soldering/desoldering box.
hrmpf.
I seem to be navigating the  river of the great material continuum without success ...

[Specmaster]

Why is the engineer any better than the generic cheapies?

I've got a Soldapullt, which is bit like a reverse air pistol, and a couple of cheapies and I usually use the cheapies because they are smaller. I also had a desoldering iron with a one shot pump, but I found that was useless.

I've always found solder pumps a bit hit and miss, sometimes they work like magic and sometimes they don't.

Yeah that's the problem I had. But most of the time they didn't work and you ended up knackering something in the process.

Good video here where one actually works 

https://youtu.be/WyiA4Giw5IM?t=295

Actually worth watching for any Tek fans as well.

Nah, according to some folk here that is pure crap because that engineer uses the Paul Carlson method of removing components from the mother board. Wrench parts off like can so they say damage pads and tracks etc 

[bd139]

Ok after poking around in the TM6 for ages it appears that it is knackered somewhere and the service manual is fucking crap  . Might be a while fixing that one. Basically it's reading around 30% of the expected amount. Someone has been twiddling with the pots inside it already but I think the problem might be the DC amp gain somewhere. There isn't enough information or expected waveform or DC value data anywhere in the manual so it'll be a case of reverse engineering and LTspice'ing it.

Anyway, everything TE related has been packed away or awaiting boxing this weekend so there will be no more contributions from me for a bit other than snide comments about moderation and thread diversions (sorry mods only trolling you ).

Will not be attending RATS rally in Rugby on Sunday as I'm absolutely burned out from this week and have a mountain to climb next week.

Off to watch Star Trek Strange New Worlds (not terrible, especially compared to Discovery)...

[Neper]

What is this and is it of any use to man or beast?

BK Precision 541 component comparator...

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/component-comparator-541/2186659541-172-952

[Specmaster]

Just got back home, so a quick update on this morning's post re the car, got 2 quotes, 1 for the main dealer and another from a new garage claiming to VW/Audi group specialists and are supposed to be cheaper than the main dealers. Dealer price is £302.32, the VW/Audi one is £390  , both gave me dates of 2 days before the MOT was due. The dealer noticed that the brake fluid is due to be changed and the 80,000 mile service but was quoting end of sept for those, after a bit of juggling, they managed to book it all in for the 5th Sept, , thats seat belt, brake fluid, service and MOT, so loyalty does have a payback after all, still going to painful though, just hoping that they don't find any bloody pothole damaged tyres this time. 

[mnementh]

WAF Improvement Project: FINAL UPDATE

Excellent work. I am impressed  . Now it needs some scopes on it

And some soldering irons. With brandmarks nearby.   

This is as much assache as I was willing to put up with for the sake of a quick snappy... tho I did try to bring some of the ones that don't get to come out & play as often anymore...

DS1054Zed, USMC Fluke 27, 54621D, in front of those Weller GT7A, Chinesium 60W/110V iron, BSIDE ESR02 Pro component tester, then 54645A & 54600A, in front of those 3478A, 60dBm's 1.5GHz Lo-Z Probe, MASTECH MS6252A Anemometer, Zeenko Brand SAA-2N V2.2 NanoVNA, Micronta 22-182 DMM W/RS-232, and finally my Teledyne/LeCroy T3DSO2102 MSO.

mnem
yes, you may touch it.

[Robert763]

Today I have mostly been in the garage playing with the new mini-mill.
This is on topic because I was making a piece of TE.
In case you had not guessed, it's a calibration fixture for Tektronix current probes. Should be fairly simple, but I don't have a 3/8-32 UNEF tap for the BNC. However looking through the material bin I found a bit of 1/2" plate from a microwave assembly which already had a suitable tapped hole in the edge. Only trouble is there are other holes and slots. This resulted in a bit of a odd shape to avoid or remove these features but it is perfectly functional.
Finish on one of the cuts could have been better but overall quite pleased with it as a first attempt. I definately made the right choice gong for the higher speed but slightly less rigid SX1LP. Most work was with a 6mm HSS cutter running 2500 - 3000 RPM. the 2000 RPM SX2 would have been harder work.
The 3mm diameter post is a pogo pin socket. Terminating resistor is 2 x 100R 1206 between the scoket and post. The bottom of the post has silver loaded conductive adhesive.
Electrical testing tomorrow.

[mnementh]

Ok after poking around in the TM6 for ages it appears that it is knackered somewhere and the service manual is fucking crap  . Might be a while fixing that one. Basically it's reading around 30% of the expected amount. Someone has been twiddling with the pots inside it already but I think the problem might be the DC amp gain somewhere. There isn't enough information or expected waveform or DC value data anywhere in the manual so it'll be a case of reverse engineering and LTspice'ing it.

Anyway, everything TE related has been packed away or awaiting boxing this weekend so there will be no more contributions from me for a bit other than snide comments about moderation and thread diversions (sorry mods only trolling you ).

Will not be attending RATS rally in Rugby on Sunday as I'm absolutely burned out from this week and have a mountain to climb next week.

Off to watch Star Trek Strange New Worlds (not terrible, especially compared to Discovery)...

Agreed. After the end of the first Discovery story arc where Pike went off to play like none of it had ever happened, I remember saying to my wife: "Damn... Pike's time with Enterprise before Kirk took it over...? I'd totes watch that."

So we did. 

Honestly, a lot more of the feel of ST:TOS... none of that "out there where the air is rare" crazy hypothetical Sci-Fi story lines; just good old-fashioned cowboy-style space exploration, green girls (and boys ), and violating the Prime Directive. 

mnem
and of course, a new season of ST:Lower Decks starts next week.

[bd139]

This is as much assache as I was willing to put up with for the sake of a quick snappy... tho I did try to bring some of the ones that don't get to come out & play as often anymore...

DS1054Zed, USMC Fluke 27, 54621D, in front of those Weller GT7A, Chinesium 60W/110V iron, BSIDE ESR02 Pro component tester, then 54645A & 54600A, in front of those 3478A, 60dBm's 1.5GHz Lo-Z Probe, MASTECH MS6252A Anemometer, Zeenko Brand SAA-2N V2.2 NanoVNA, Micronta 22-182 DMM W/RS-232, and finally my Teledyne/LeCroy T3DSO2102 MSO.

mnem
yes, you may touch it.

   

Top job

[factory]

What is this and is it of any use to man or beast?

BK Precision 541 component comparator...

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/component-comparator-541/2186659541-172-952

Looks like a very basic curve tracer add-on for comparison of multi-pin devices, to compare a unknown/faulty part against a know good part. We had a 386 PC at work with a similar component tracer ISA card built in, we never used the sockets for connecting to multi-pin devices, or circuit board connectors.
https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Radio-Electronics-IDX/IDX/80s/1987/Radio-Electronics-1987-12-OCR-Page-0005.pdf

David

[mnementh]

Why is the engineer any better than the generic cheapies?

I've got a Soldapullt, which is bit like a reverse air pistol, and a couple of cheapies and I usually use the cheapies because they are smaller. I also had a desoldering iron with a one shot pump, but I found that was useless.

I've always found solder pumps a bit hit and miss, sometimes they work like magic and sometimes they don't.

Yeah that's the problem I had. But most of the time they didn't work and you ended up knackering something in the process.

Good video here where one actually works 

https://youtu.be/WyiA4Giw5IM?t=295

Actually worth watching for any Tek fans as well.

Nah, according to some folk here that is pure crap because that engineer uses the Paul Carlson method of removing components from the mother board. Wrench parts off like can so they say damage pads and tracks etc 

Yeeaahh... still made me fucking cringe. 

I mean, I know it's beefy old-school FR4 and TH construction, so should be able to stand the abuse... but too many "marginal" PCBs over the years weakened by heat and cap electrolyte have taught me to never trust that you can get away with abusing a PCB Magilla G'rilla style.

I positively loathe having to do trace repair; doubly so when it's as a result of my own carelessness.

mnem

[mnementh]

What is this and is it of any use to man or beast?

BK Precision 541 component comparator...

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/component-comparator-541/2186659541-172-952

Looks like a very basic curve tracer add-on for comparison of multi-pin devices, to compare a unknown/faulty part against a know good part. We had a 386 PC at work with a similar component tracer ISA card built in, we never used the sockets for connecting to multi-pin devices, or circuit board connectors.
https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Radio-Electronics-IDX/IDX/80s/1987/Radio-Electronics-1987-12-OCR-Page-0005.pdf

David

No, your datasheet says it's intended to be used with the 540 component tester... So I'd guess it's an automated switching network allowing you to compare the curve tracer's output against a new known-good IC one leg at a time.

mnem
 

[factory]

Read it again, "or with virtually any x-y oscilloscope". or the bit with the blue background, "a companion instrument for use with your scope or the 540.

David

[mnementh]

You still need the signal generated by the 540 (or some form of) component tester; you can see that on the back of the unit. My guess would be that the X-Y out is meant so you can hook it to a scope with a bigger, better screen for sharing with a group, or use it with a different component tester.


mnem
 

[mnementh]

   This is as much assache as I was willing to put up with for the sake of a quick snappy...
tho I did try to bring some of the ones that don't get to come out & play as often anymore...

DS1054Zed, USMC Fluke 27, 54621D, in front of those Weller GT7A, Chinesium 60W/110V iron, BSIDE ESR02 Pro component tester, then 54645A & 54600A, in front of those 3478A, 60dBm's 1.5GHz Lo-Z Probe, MASTECH MS6252A Anemometer, Zeenko Brand SAA-2N V2.2 NanoVNA, Micronta 22-182 DMM W/RS-232, and finally my Teledyne/LeCroy T3DSO2102 MSO.

mnem
yes, you may touch it.

   

Top job

Yeah, I'm still putting shit away from it... 

mnem
*rubs hole in index finger thoughtfully from where the Oldaker test probes bit me... again*

[tggzzz]

Hello, my name is David and I am NOT a test equipaholic.

I love this and it is not bad for me.

I have just started my journey.  Began by scrounging the local university surplus center for enclosures to house a dim bulb tester and isolation transformer.  Got some gigantic electrolytics from inside one of 'em.

I had zero test equipment beyond a no-name handheld multimeter.

Now I also own a (possibly broken) EICO signal generator, a (possibly broken) HeathKit capacitor checker and a (possibly broken) Tektronix 7603 with two amplifiers and timebase plugin.

Tomorrow I will probably own a (possibly broken) Tektronix tm506 mainframe.  And a DMM for it by the end of next week.

I still have to buy wire to build the dim bulb tester.

Then fix the probably-broken mainframe.
Then fix the probably-broken scope.
Then fix the probably-broken signal generator.

Then fix the RCA amp that started all this.

Am I doing it right?

Welcome to this thread, the rathole, and the forum

If you are enjoying it and not harming anybody, then you are doing it right. Except if you set out to rape working equipment for parts like valves

Quick word of caution. Don't use a dim-bulb tester on anything with an SMPS, i.e. much big "modern" equipment. SMPSs act to keep the output power constant; if you lower the input voltage they suck more input current, and the semiconductors don't like that.

Oh yes, learn about RIFA capacitors prefereably before they teach you they exist. We've all had that done to us

Shouldn't that be, don't use a variac with SMPS, as they cannot limit the current at any output voltage.
An appropriate wattage lamp in a dim-bulb tester if chosen correctly, could prevent the current going high enough to fry the switching transistor, when fault finding on something that repeatedly detonates multiple parts. 

David

The key phrase there is, of course, "if chosen correctly".....

[factory]

You still need the signal generated by the 540 (or some form of) component tester; you can see that on the back of the unit. My guess would be that the X-Y out is meant so you can hook it to a scope with a bigger, better screen for sharing with a group, or use it with a different component tester.


mnem
 

Seems the B&K 540 (aka Polar 1200) component tester is made in the UK, looks very basic for curve tracer.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/polar-t-1200t-1000-component-testers/

David

[tggzzz]

oh woe eeez me ...
bloody quick fingahz

I just could not keep them back and had to hit the bid button ...

"you are now the proud owner of a Trio / Kenwood KD-500 with an SME 3009 series III arm ..."

I've got a Trio KD-2055, plus the original packing somewhere in the loft.

[Specmaster]

Today I have mostly been in the garage playing with the new mini-mill.
This is on topic because I was making a piece of TE.
In case you had not guessed, it's a calibration fixture for Tektronix current probes. Should be fairly simple, but I don't have a 3/8-32 UNEF tap for the BNC. However looking through the material bin I found a bit of 1/2" plate from a microwave assembly which already had a suitable tapped hole in the edge. Only trouble is there are other holes and slots. This resulted in a bit of a odd shape to avoid or remove these features but it is perfectly functional.
Finish on one of the cuts could have been better but overall quite pleased with it as a first attempt. I definately made the right choice gong for the higher speed but slightly less rigid SX1LP. Most work was with a 6mm HSS cutter running 2500 - 3000 RPM. the 2000 RPM SX2 would have been harder work.
The 3mm diameter post is a pogo pin socket. Terminating resistor is 2 x 100R 1206 between the scoket and post. The bottom of the post has silver loaded conductive adhesive.
Electrical testing tomorrow.

This is what I thought of after reading your post. 

[vk6zgo]

Hello, my name is David and I am NOT a test equipaholic.

<snip>

Am I doing it right?

Yes, but keep in mind that you need one working scope to fix the broken scope too.

Or several "kind of working" scopes that are broken in different and interesting ways that you use cyclically and incrementally to fix each other.

Weirdly that doesn't sound as different from the day job as I'd like it to. 

Yes, I've used a two channel 'scope with one dead channel plenty of times for work.

Another trick is chasing analog video signals when the internal triggering doesn't work.

You can either use another (locked) video signal on "external trigger", or "line trigger" off the 50Hz Mains
The latter is limited to  "field rate" video, but is very usable for that, as the drift between the two "50Hz" rates is very slow, indeed.

On one occasion, a private job, I even fault-found a car ignition problem,using a BWD with no working form of triggering---I could see pulses coming out of the ECU, so who cared if they slid across the screen.

As I have said before, you can do useful work with the worst of Oscilloscopes.

[mnementh]

Today I have mostly been in the garage playing with the new mini-mill...

This is what I thought of after reading your post. 

Today I have mostly been...

...fucking off while the womenfolk take the kids to The Maul.

mnem
oh, and I did finally find the dock for the Roomba... so I plugged that in and set it to work on the dining room floor.   

[mnementh]

You still need the signal generated by the 540 (or some form of) component tester; you can see that on the back of the unit. My guess would be that the X-Y out is meant so you can hook it to a scope with a bigger, better screen for sharing with a group, or use it with a different component tester.

Seems the B&K 540 (aka Polar 1200) component tester is made in the UK, looks very basic for curve tracer.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/polar-t-1200t-1000-component-testers/

David

Yeah, surprisingly it does at least generate a very fundamental stairstep... so at minimum marginally better than a home-made squid. 

Following that thread, I see there's manuals on KO4BB for the Polar 1200 and 1202... the 1202 is as I surmised, an accessory switching network for testing ICs with the 1200. I expect the B&K 541 is just a slightly more advanced version of the same.

http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=06_Misc_Test_Equipment/Polar_Instruments

mnem
 

[vk6zgo]

Why is the engineer any better than the generic cheapies?

I've got a Soldapullt, which is bit like a reverse air pistol, and a couple of cheapies and I usually use the cheapies because they are smaller. I also had a desoldering iron with a one shot pump, but I found that was useless.

I've always found solder pumps a bit hit and miss, sometimes they work like magic and sometimes they don't.

Yeah that's the problem I had. But most of the time they didn't work and you ended up knackering something in the process.

Good video here where one actually works 

https://youtu.be/WyiA4Giw5IM?t=295

Actually worth watching for any Tek fans as well.

Nah, according to some folk here that is pure crap because that engineer uses the Paul Carlson method of removing components from the mother board. Wrench parts off like can so they say damage pads and tracks etc 

Sometimes the "right way" doesn't work.

We had a special relay on a bit of NEC Tx equipment which had multiple pins connected to the groundplane, with only a few "active" pins not connected that way.

As far as we could see, this was for a combination of shielding & mechanical stability.
It was, inevitably, faulty!

With all that groundplane, & the metal of the quite large relay acting as heatsinks, we couldn't make any headway with solder suckers or desoldering braid, so invested in a new Pace desoldering station.

The job said "Pshaw! I laugh at your Pace!", so sterner means had to be employed.
We ended up sliding the blade of a Stanley knife into the very small gap under the device & slicing all the legs off.
It was then easy enough to individually remove the pins from the board.

We gained a nice desoldering station from the episode, so it wasn't a total waste!

[TERRA Operative]

Why is the engineer any better than the generic cheapies?

I've got a Soldapullt, which is bit like a reverse air pistol, and a couple of cheapies and I usually use the cheapies because they are smaller. I also had a desoldering iron with a one shot pump, but I found that was useless.

I've always found solder pumps a bit hit and miss, sometimes they work like magic and sometimes they don't.

Yeah that's the problem I had. But most of the time they didn't work and you ended up knackering something in the process.

Good video here where one actually works 

https://youtu.be/WyiA4Giw5IM?t=295

Actually worth watching for any Tek fans as well.

Nah, according to some folk here that is pure crap because that engineer uses the Paul Carlson method of removing components from the mother board. Wrench parts off like can so they say damage pads and tracks etc 

Yeeaahh... still made me fucking cringe. 

I mean, I know it's beefy old-school FR4 and TH construction, so should be able to stand the abuse... but too many "marginal" PCBs over the years weakened by heat and cap electrolyte have taught me to never trust that you can get away with abusing a PCB Magilla G'rilla style.

I positively loathe having to do trace repair; doubly so when it's as a result of my own carelessness.

mnem

How about trace repair on a Toyota Supra ECU? 90's Toyota ECU's were right in the thick of the capacitor plague. I've repaired heaps of these things....
Not only did I have to clean and repair the board, I had to undo the halfarsed previous attempt at repair carried out by a gorilla...

The owner reported that the car ran beautifully afterwards.