Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

Scope looks good, but I too would call it a day.

What Admin doesn't understand is that this thread over the years has turned into a community of individuals with the same common interest but with diverse backgrounds. So naturally we want to understand each other which involves OT discussions of our lives and other interests. And so sometimes we wander off but always come back to topic. But now we've been told to keep it to electronics only. OK....understand what that means. The following items can no longer be discussed:

My continued journey with controlling diabetes.
Vince's new job.
BD139's impending move.
BU508A's love of baking sweet treats
Cubdriver's kitty cats.
Cerebus' quick wit.
I could go on. You get the point.

It's gonna get pretty boring in here. 

"Pretty boring" has validity but is an exaggeration, of course.

I suspect the mods do understand about this thread's longevity. I also suspect they don't want some of the side effects, e.g.

• some stuff that is on-topic and interesting to a wider audience is buried deep within the entrails of this thread. Of course there are some cases where that fate has explicitly avoided, e.g. bd's macaroni sig gen and my kickable Fluke nixie DVM
• the close knit relationships can be offputting to newcomers. We do welcome newcomers, but that can still be an effect
• anything which vaguely feels like twatter or farcebook
• anything that needs their active attention/moderation

I do have sympathy with all that; if I didn't I wouldn't have conceived of those effects.

I will also be saddened if this thread becomes moribund; I hope that doesn't happen. Does discourse have a non-realtime mode?

[Squarewave]

Meanwhile, in a Facebook vintage electronics group, these photos were posted today of this person's collection of meters and test gear, impressive or what?

Impressive, yes. But then so is a bunch of fives.

I think we can guess what tool that addict either couldn't afford when doing their first homebrew electronics, or used professionally in their first job.

What do you mean?

[BU508A]

Does discourse have a non-realtime mode?

Do you mean with "discourse" Discord?
Well, yes and no.
One can read the sayings several days after the discord session.
But there seems to be a time limit which seems somewhere around 2 weeks.
I can still read the discussions from last Saturday but I think, one needs to attend the session at least for a short time.

[tggzzz]

Meanwhile, in a Facebook vintage electronics group, these photos were posted today of this person's collection of meters and test gear, impressive or what?

Impressive, yes. But then so is a bunch of fives.

I think we can guess what tool that addict either couldn't afford when doing their first homebrew electronics, or used professionally in their first job.

What do you mean?

When peoples' kids leave home, they have time and money on their hands. They often seek to remember (less charitably "recapture") their youthful enthusiasms. Hence adults buying toys, clothes, music, TE that they remember from their youth.

Yes, it does indicate what is likely to go up - and down - in price at auction. Thus, for example, jazz records from the 70s 60s and 50s is expensive, but you can't sell jazz records from the 20s 30s 40s.

[tggzzz]

Does discourse have a non-realtime mode?

Do you mean with "discourse"? Discord?

Almost certainly

Well, yes and no.
One can read the sayings several days after the discord session.
But there seems to be a time limit which seems somewhere around 2 weeks.
I can still read the discussions from last Saturday but I think, one needs to attend the session at least for a short time.

If one can relpy to a post a couple of days old plus others notice the reply, then that would be sufficient for the twatter-like traffic on this thread.

There are some posts here (e.g. those involving the "post" ) that fall into that category and which I wouldn't miss.

[bd139]

On Avometers, I never got the obsession with them. Maybe I'm too young. Maybe I'm poisoned by the memory of crappy analogue meters. I've used Avos before but they just don't sit well with me. Why?

1. If you drop them they are toast.
2. They have weird battery requirements.
3. They have dubious safety characteristics and always did have.
4. They're bloody huge.
5. They appear to have been universally stored in damp sheds at their current age.
6. The bottom end of the scale is really janky even on new ones (compare to HP analogue meter calibration...)

We should just let the upcyclers have the bloody things...



Seeds of discord sewn. I shall now observe from a distance     

[BU508A]

Well, yes and no.
One can read the sayings several days after the discord session.
But there seems to be a time limit which seems somewhere around 2 weeks.
I can still read the discussions from last Saturday but I think, one needs to attend the session at least for a short time.

If one can relpy to a post a couple of days old plus others notice the reply, then that would be sufficient for the twatter-like traffic on this thread.

There are some posts here (e.g. those involving the "post" ) that fall into that category and which I wouldn't miss.

You can reply to an older post. And I think, the author of that post will get a notification (even outside from Discord, but I'm not entirely sure about that).
The notification will pop up once Discord has been joined. Happened to me in the past occasionly.

[Zenith]

Meanwhile, in a Facebook vintage electronics group, these photos were posted today of this person's collection of meters and test gear, impressive or what?

Impressive, yes. But then so is a bunch of fives.

I think we can guess what tool that addict either couldn't afford when doing their first homebrew electronics, or used professionally in their first job.

What do you mean?

I always wanted  an AVO, because when I was a kid in the 60s messing with electrical circuits I wanted a voltmeter. The chap who used to fix the telly had an AVO. I was only allowed to look on it with wonder - not mess with it. Later I found they had a reputation as the gold standard in multimeters. I now have two, I don't use them much, but I'm glad I've got them.

As a teenager messing with transistor circuits, I really wanted an oscilloscope, but they were impossibly expensive. There was a Telequipment S51 in the school physics lab, I thought it was a miraculous thing, and was allowed to do a very limited amount of playing with it, but nothing like having your own. I've got one of those now.

There's a theory that vintage cars from the 50s and 60s have inflated prices, because the people who were kids then and admired them, are now sufficiently well-heeled and have the space and time to look after them.

[Saskia]

which is why I am looking into pinballs and arcades.


And audio.

[tggzzz]

In the context of the recent more active moderation on this thread....

It may be worth noting that the mods appear to be starting to take a more active interest in moderation across the forum. Example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/what-is-the-difference-between-build-and-compile/msg4352176/#msg4352176

I'm not interested in comments on that specific example of moderation; it is all too possible to descend into tedious rathole. Not that any of us here would do that, oh no. Perish the thought.

[themadhippy]

when I was a kid I was only allowed to look on it with wonder - not mess with it.

As a teenager was allowed to do a very limited amount of playing with it, but nothing like having your own.

sounds like my experience with the opposite sex,coincidentally that also turn expensive, what with all the necessary upgrades and maintenance they need,although i never made the mistake of owning more than 1 at the same time.Ive now reached the point in life were i really would like the  latest  new model ,but have to accept  that older and slightly clapped out is all i can afford

[Zenith]

when I was a kid I was only allowed to look on it with wonder - not mess with it.

As a teenager was allowed to do a very limited amount of playing with it, but nothing like having your own.

sounds like my experience with the opposite sex,coincidentally that also turn expensive, what with all the necessary upgrades and maintenance they need,although i never made the mistake of owning more than 1 at the same time.Ive now reached the point in life were i really would like the  latest  new model ,but have to accept  that older and slightly clapped out is all i can afford

I found I could often get away with borrowing someone else's.

There's many a good tune played on an old fiddle.

[mnementh]

Breakfast just got a little weird... 

mnem
maybe it's the universe telling me I should invest in some new TE:   

https://www.amazon.com/GCA-03W-Counter-Radiation-Detection-External/dp/B000796XTG

[Squarewave]

Meanwhile, in a Facebook vintage electronics group, these photos were posted today of this person's collection of meters and test gear, impressive or what?

Impressive, yes. But then so is a bunch of fives.

I think we can guess what tool that addict either couldn't afford when doing their first homebrew electronics, or used professionally in their first job.

What do you mean?

When peoples' kids leave home, they have time and money on their hands. They often seek to remember (less charitably "recapture") their youthful enthusiasms. Hence adults buying toys, clothes, music, TE that they remember from their youth.

Yes, it does indicate what is likely to go up - and down - in price at auction. Thus, for example, jazz records from the 70s 60s and 50s is expensive, but you can't sell jazz records from the 20s 30s 40s.

Maybe so for some people. I collect them because I like them, the British history behind them. I do remember though, work buying a few in the 90s at about £700 each from RS. You can pick them up for £10 now.

I guess like most people here who have lots of TE which they may not need multiples of them, but some of us like a play with them, some of us like the restoration projects which some bring to us - or we simply prefer them to look at rather than brass ornaments and scale models of cars.

[pcprogrammer]

In the context of the recent more active moderation on this thread....

It may be worth noting that the mods appear to be starting to take a more active interest in moderation across the forum. Example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/what-is-the-difference-between-build-and-compile/msg4352176/#msg4352176

I'm not interested in comments on that specific example of moderation; it is all too possible to descend into tedious rathole. Not that any of us here would do that, oh no. Perish the thought.

In al fairness, that is because of me. I know this is off topic here, but so was the post in the microcontroller section. The original poster is a bit hard headed in understanding that the microcontroller section is not for single board computers.

I asked the person to move a thread a while back but he/she did not take notice. So I had the moderators handle it.

[mnementh]

The microdrives being referred to are the dread Sinclair microdrives      I suspect you're referring to something else. 1" HDDs?   

   What the actual fuck... am I looking at? Is that a looped reel tape cartridge of some sort...? In what universe is that "micro"...?

I'm sorry... I have never ever seen this technology before. Did it maybe die the ignoble death it deserves before ever escaping your shores...?

mnem
mom: "You learn something new every day."
me: "Sometimes what you learn... is something better left unknown."

   Oh it was micro, 44 mm × 34 mm × 8 mm (1.73 in × 1.34 in × 0.31 in) including protective cover and had a 5-metre (200 in) endless loop of magnetic tape, 1.9 mm (0.075 in) wide.
picture from https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ZX_Microdrive,_opened,_compared_to_compact_cassette.png

That is both amazing and horrifying at the same time. I am honestly glad I never had to deal with it. 

mnem
"Be thankful for what you don't have every once in a while." ~mum

[Robert763]

Breakfast just got a little weird... 

mnem
maybe it's the universe telling me I should invest in some new TE:   

https://www.amazon.com/GCA-03W-Counter-Radiation-Detection-External/dp/B000796XTG

That is a whole new test and measurement rabbit hole. Full of misinformation, misunderstanding and downright fraudulant equipment.
For example that item claims Beta sensitivity and dose rate measurements. Unless a unit has two detectors or a removable enrgy filter it can't do both. Almost certainly they have "calibrated" it against a single radioactive isotope. That means dose rate is only accurate for that isotope in isolation which is no use in any practical application.

[Robert763]

In the context of the recent more active moderation on this thread....

It may be worth noting that the mods appear to be starting to take a more active interest in moderation across the forum. Example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/what-is-the-difference-between-build-and-compile/msg4352176/#msg4352176

I'm not interested in comments on that specific example of moderation; it is all too possible to descend into tedious rathole. Not that any of us here would do that, oh no. Perish the thought.

In al fairness, that is because of me. I know this is off topic here, but so was the post in the microcontroller section. The original poster is a bit hard headed in understanding that the microcontroller section is not for single board computers.

I asked the person to move a thread a while back but he/she did not take notice. So I had the moderators handle it.

I'm confused. The forum it was poted in is "Embedded Computing". That is not just microcontrollers. The post mentions a RPi and seems perfectly on topic to me. I use a complier with "bare" microcontrollers anyway so still applicable.

[Specmaster]

Scope looks good, but I too would call it a day.

What Admin doesn't understand is that this thread over the years has turned into a community of individuals with the same common interest but with diverse backgrounds. So naturally we want to understand each other which involves OT discussions of our lives and other interests. And so sometimes we wander off but always come back to topic. But now we've been told to keep it to electronics only. OK....understand what that means. The following items can no longer be discussed:

My continued journey with controlling diabetes.
Vince's new job.
BD139's impending move.
BU508A's love of baking sweet treats
Cubdriver's kitty cats.
Cerebus' quick wit.
I could go on. You get the point.

It's gonna get pretty boring in here. 

"Pretty boring" has validity but is an exaggeration, of course.

I suspect the mods do understand about this thread's longevity. I also suspect they don't want some of the side effects, e.g.

• some stuff that is on-topic and interesting to a wider audience is buried deep within the entrails of this thread. Of course there are some cases where that fate has explicitly avoided, e.g. bd's macaroni sig gen and my kickable Fluke nixie DVM
• the close knit relationships can be offputting to newcomers. We do welcome newcomers, but that can still be an effect
• anything which vaguely feels like twatter or farcebook
• anything that needs their active attention/moderation

I do have sympathy with all that; if I didn't I wouldn't have conceived of those effects.

I will also be saddened if this thread becomes moribund; I hope that doesn't happen. Does discourse have a non-realtime mode?

Equally, the reverse is true, I came into this thread because it had that warm cosy, caring attitude and feel to it. As a member of quite a few other forums, that due to their strict rules, have all the hallmarks of being almost moribund, with some of them hardly having any postings recently, since 2021.

If anyone has a real good repair / restoration / project story to tell, then these end up in a thread all of their own in the Projects or Repairs sections and may also be repeated here as well for the benefit of members of this thread to follow progress. This means that if anyone is actively looking for information about a specific project or a repair of a product etc, then surely using the power of Google and or the search tab within this forum will direct the enquirer to that relative information?

The OP and founder of this thread also does a pretty good job of documenting where the various interesting repairs/restorations etc. can be found, a look at that information which is all contained within the first few pages of this thread along with guidelines etc, highlights that we care about the longevity of this thread and exercise our own policing of it to a very large degree.

It has already been said, this is a community, drawn together by a common theme, our love of electronics and in particularly TE. In order to be an effective restorer requires many aspects of engineering/disciplines other than purely electronics and that can and does encompass woodwork, metalwork, mechanical, electrical, even chemistry and this thread has those within it from time to time along with the other humanity bit and bobs that make a fully functioning community and one which is growing rapidly.

As it grows, it is also inevitably going to attract a few complainers who disagree with this or that posting and as the membership grows, so will the complainers, the bigger the community, the more complainers, but is this not a true reflection of any community?

I have been an active member here for 6 years and scan these pages on a daily basis and I can honestly say that I have yet to see any dispute between  members that the rest of the community have not resolved and peace returns once again. The biggest problem I can recall has been a few years ago when we had an influx of spammers and scammers, and we enlisted the support of the moderators, who handled that situation beautifully, and we have not had any reoccurrences.

[pcprogrammer]

In the context of the recent more active moderation on this thread....

It may be worth noting that the mods appear to be starting to take a more active interest in moderation across the forum. Example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/what-is-the-difference-between-build-and-compile/msg4352176/#msg4352176

I'm not interested in comments on that specific example of moderation; it is all too possible to descend into tedious rathole. Not that any of us here would do that, oh no. Perish the thought.

In al fairness, that is because of me. I know this is off topic here, but so was the post in the microcontroller section. The original poster is a bit hard headed in understanding that the microcontroller section is not for single board computers.

I asked the person to move a thread a while back but he/she did not take notice. So I had the moderators handle it.

I'm confused. The forum it was poted in is "Embedded Computing". That is not just microcontrollers. The post mentions a RPi and seems perfectly on topic to me. I use a complier with "bare" microcontrollers anyway so still applicable.

I think Gnif moved it or I did not look properly to begin with, which I doubt. But his/her other posts in the microcontrollers section should not be there.

[mnementh]

Breakfast just got a little weird... 

mnem
maybe it's the universe telling me I should invest in some new TE:   

https://www.amazon.com/GCA-03W-Counter-Radiation-Detection-External/dp/B000796XTG

That is a whole new test and measurement rabbit hole. Full of misinformation, misunderstanding and downright fraudulent equipment.
For example that item claims Beta sensitivity and dose rate measurements. Unless a unit has two detectors or a removable energy filter it can't do both. Almost certainly they have "calibrated" it against a single radioactive isotope. That means dose rate is only accurate for that isotope in isolation which is no use in any practical application.

LOL...

Robert, it was a joke... I was just looking for a picture of some kind of TE with a radioactive warning sign somewhere on it to make the connection with my breakfast obvious.*

mnem
Okay... I'll admit calling that TE is probably questionable... but the pic worked as intended, at least for me.

*and maybe a little bit hoping to not attract the attention of the invisible hand of post deletion

[mnementh]

What Admin doesn't understand is that this thread over the years has turned into a community of individuals with the same common interest but with diverse backgrounds. So naturally we want to understand each other which involves OT discussions of our lives and other interests. And so sometimes we wander off but always come back to topic. But now we've been told to keep it to electronics only. OK....understand what that means. The following items can no longer be discussed:

My continued journey with controlling diabetes.
Vince's new job.
BD139's impending move.
BU508A's love of baking sweet treats
Cubdriver's kitty cats.
Cerebus' quick wit.
I could go on. You get the point.

It's gonna get pretty boring in here. 

Yes, this is precisely what I meant when I said that "the interesting will be gone too". 

It is all the "little things", and the sharing of them, that makes a "community". Otherwise, this space becomes just another of the oodles of expressly on-topic threads on eevBlog which have died of stagnation. There is need to re-iterate that formula yet again.

mnem
that is all.

[tggzzz]

In the context of the recent more active moderation on this thread....

It may be worth noting that the mods appear to be starting to take a more active interest in moderation across the forum. Example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/what-is-the-difference-between-build-and-compile/msg4352176/#msg4352176

I'm not interested in comments on that specific example of moderation; it is all too possible to descend into tedious rathole. Not that any of us here would do that, oh no. Perish the thought.

In al fairness, that is because of me. I know this is off topic here, but so was the post in the microcontroller section. The original poster is a bit hard headed in understanding that the microcontroller section is not for single board computers.

I asked the person to move a thread a while back but he/she did not take notice. So I had the moderators handle it.

Thanks for the info.

I see your point, but don't feel able to have a valid opinion in that particular case.

I do tend to make the point that all tree-taxonomies must have ambiguities, e.g. should a library put a book on making and using a sous-vide cooker in with hacking or cooking or electronics books.

[tggzzz]

Scope looks good, but I too would call it a day.

What Admin doesn't understand is that this thread over the years has turned into a community of individuals with the same common interest but with diverse backgrounds. So naturally we want to understand each other which involves OT discussions of our lives and other interests. And so sometimes we wander off but always come back to topic. But now we've been told to keep it to electronics only. OK....understand what that means. The following items can no longer be discussed:

My continued journey with controlling diabetes.
Vince's new job.
BD139's impending move.
BU508A's love of baking sweet treats
Cubdriver's kitty cats.
Cerebus' quick wit.
I could go on. You get the point.

It's gonna get pretty boring in here. 

"Pretty boring" has validity but is an exaggeration, of course.

I suspect the mods do understand about this thread's longevity. I also suspect they don't want some of the side effects, e.g.

• some stuff that is on-topic and interesting to a wider audience is buried deep within the entrails of this thread. Of course there are some cases where that fate has explicitly avoided, e.g. bd's macaroni sig gen and my kickable Fluke nixie DVM
• the close knit relationships can be offputting to newcomers. We do welcome newcomers, but that can still be an effect
• anything which vaguely feels like twatter or farcebook
• anything that needs their active attention/moderation

I do have sympathy with all that; if I didn't I wouldn't have conceived of those effects.

I will also be saddened if this thread becomes moribund; I hope that doesn't happen. Does discourse have a non-realtime mode?

Equally, the reverse is true, I came into this thread because it had that warm cosy, caring attitude and feel to it. As a member of quite a few other forums, that due to their strict rules, have all the hallmarks of being almost moribund, with some of them hardly having any postings recently, since 2021.

If anyone has a real good repair / restoration / project story to tell, then these end up in a thread all of their own in the Projects or Repairs sections and may also be repeated here as well for the benefit of members of this thread to follow progress. This means that if anyone is actively looking for information about a specific project or a repair of a product etc, then surely using the power of Google and or the search tab within this forum will direct the enquirer to that relative information?

The OP and founder of this thread also does a pretty good job of documenting where the various interesting repairs/restorations etc. can be found, a look at that information which is all contained within the first few pages of this thread along with guidelines etc, highlights that we care about the longevity of this thread and exercise our own policing of it to a very large degree.

It has already been said, this is a community, drawn together by a common theme, our love of electronics and in particularly TE. In order to be an effective restorer requires many aspects of engineering/disciplines other than purely electronics and that can and does encompass woodwork, metalwork, mechanical, electrical, even chemistry and this thread has those within it from time to time along with the other humanity bit and bobs that make a fully functioning community and one which is growing rapidly.

As it grows, it is also inevitably going to attract a few complainers who disagree with this or that posting and as the membership grows, so will the complainers, the bigger the community, the more complainers, but is this not a true reflection of any community?

I have been an active member here for 6 years and scan these pages on a daily basis and I can honestly say that I have yet to see any dispute between  members that the rest of the community have not resolved and peace returns once again. The biggest problem I can recall has been a few years ago when we had an influx of spammers and scammers, and we enlisted the support of the moderators, who handled that situation beautifully, and we have not had any reoccurrences.

I agree with most of that, and a lot also applies to me.

Npnetheless, I don't think it is a sufficient counter-argument to the points I raised.

Personally I'm not interested in delving deeply into what you/I think/mean. That's a tedious rathole given the amount of agreement

[pcprogrammer]

Thanks for the info.

I see your point, but don't feel able to have a valid opinion in that particular case.

I do tend to make the point that all tree-taxonomies must have ambiguities, e.g. should a library put a book on making and using a sous-vide cooker in with hacking or cooking or electronics books.

You are welcome. For me it is more about the ignorance of some people. There is a pinned thread at the start of the microcontroller board that clearly indicates what the board is for. Hell it is even in the name of the board: "Microcontroller hardware or software. Use the Embedded Computer section for single board computers like RPi etc"

"Read dammit read" is my motto here.

But to be about electronics a bit, the FPGA reversal is coming along