Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[AVGresponding]

OK who deleted a post?

David

Bastards !! 

Wasn't me, but that is what you get: "play with the bull, you get the horns"

See my edited post, it was Specmaster  , I looked at the webpages on my phone, that I preloaded before work to read offline.

David

I am very disappointed....

I will put him in a paper shredder, turn the Spec into lots of specks, then put it in a bowl and give it to her daughter's dog to eat.

I thought so highly of Spec, I am devastated now.

Since you still have posts on page 5111, it's a relatively simple matter to edit one of them to contain the content from the one bumped down to page 5110.

[AVGresponding]

I did watch the Carlson one (HP 419A video), need to look for the CuriousMarc one.

David

It's a recent one on an HP X/Y plotter.

[Zoli]

Got mail from Canada tioday, thanks Zoli ! 

The ATmega128 to power up all my gizmos to come, and lots more with it ! 

RS232 drivers which will be handy since I intend to use that to connect my gizmos to my future lab computer.

Lovely tiny thermistors it looks like 

and.... the icing on the cake, some precision 120R 0.01% resistors !!!
My first precision resistors !! 
I got the cheap chinese Vref the other day, to check my DMMs... now I can check the ohms range as well 


Thank you very much !!!     

Thanks Zoli, for being the spirit of TEA today! 

mnem

My pleasure 

[Vince]

GPIB FUN


OK the computer is still holding together after all those years. Fired right up, no smoke no RIFA explosion.... nothing, just works.

Win95 still loads fine and the network card must be working because internet works out of the box !

Yeah... didn't do nothing and th'e interweb works, so that's cool. Both computers connected to the ADSL box, and box having access, without me doign anything, I like that.

Looked like I had installed " Netscape Communicator 4.0 ", because well it was the best on offer back then.

PROBLEM : I can connect to Google just fine, however if I try Gmail.com (to see if I can access my account, that I could use to transfer the F/W file to my other computer....), Netscape refuses to connect, stating that, I quote (screenshot below as well) :

" Netscape and this server cannot communicate securely because they have no common encryption algorithm "

Whatever that means... I guess Netscape is too old.. but I think it's the best I can put on this Win95 machine, so looks like I am screwed... I "have" internet..... but not really. 

Oh well....

I guess I need to find some file transfer application software instead ? This might not be so fussy about web features, and by happy with only low level protocols and features....
If you can recommend some S/W I could try.... I am all ears.

Oh no, MAnsaxel said Win95 has everything that's needed out of the box... how do I do then ?

I clicked on the " Network neighbourhood" icon, I can see an icon named " Livebox " which is the name of my ADSL box... sounds great. So I click on it but it opens an empty folder.... not good 

Yes, I apologize people, but network stuff is alien to me. I have never HAD to learn this stuff, so never did. I guess I do now....

Is there a " Networking for dummies" book, Win95 era ? 


Anyway. I then loaded upon NI's S/W. I scanned the bus and it found my TDS 544A no problem. So at least the card and S/W and scope still work together, it's a good start...

[Zoli]

\
...
Yes but it's from 1996. My first computer I bought was a year younger, 1997 IIRC. It too had " USB "but... it was an ancient / early days version of it that would not work with any peripheral. It might has well not even be there. The BIOS doesn't even recognize it IIRC and there is no driver for them. It's like they soldered USB connectors to look "advanced", state of the art but... it's all show and no go 

Not a USB expert of course, but it's just my experience...

Post a screenshot of the Control Panel-> System(alt+print-screen -> paste in paint).
ANY Win95 can be  convinced to support USB mass storage; built-in support for USB sub-system support started with Win95 OEM2.

[Vince]

There you go !!!

Any good ? I bet no.... 

I looked in the other tabs in that dialog. At the very top of the peripheral list, we can see it detected an unknown peripheral that's called " PCI Universal Serial Bus  ", sounds promising eh !: 

I clicked on that. There is no driver installed for it. Tried to install one from that dialog. but couldn't find any driver for USB controllers 

It's just too old....


Tried some more websites... no luck. Can't vconnect to anything other than Google.com. I always get the error message I showed a minute ago.

I really need to get freaking local network ing going ! It's so frustrating, I am sure I am THAT close to having working.. .if only I knew what I was doing, what needs doing, and how to do it !!! 

I did make some progress though, but not enough : at first I thought this " Livrebox " folder in the network neighbourhood thing, was meant to show me my other / main computer, that I could then select.
But then I thought hey what if it didn't work like that. MAybe that Livebox folder  is just that, the livbebox. Maybe there is some hard drive / storage in the Livebox and this is what shows up in the " Livebox " folder. To try to confirm that, I tried to drag and drop some files into that Livebox folder.... Win95 then complained that : "you need to enable Microsoft files and printer sharing service in the Network utility, click there and come back". So I did that. Now I get a different error when I try to drop files there... from memory, something like "You don't have admin rights to do that" and "make sure "Livebox" has enable remote file sharing" or something.   So maybe I need to connect to the LiveBox itself and see if there are some filesharing options I could play with...

[Vince]

Tried to connect to the LiveBox (4th generation) from Netscape on the old computer. IP is  192.168.1.1

Fails to load, complains about a Javascript error 

Geez, it's hopeless. If I can't even do something as barebone as connecting to a router/ADSL box, it's hopeless.

I am now not so sure I can get local networking working on this old computer 

I looked in the network configuration dialogs. There is a list of network "services", like file sharing which I just insalled, or SPX something, or NTware stuff, or the TCP/IP Stack from the 3COM card. So I clicked on the latter... gives me like 8 tabs or so to mess with.. DNS, DHCP blah blah... nothing is filled in, it's all blank. Well I guess it must using something other than void, otherwise I wouldn't able to connect to the internet...
If only I knew what I was doing, maybe I could configure something in there to get it to work.
BD could do that but it would require a private jet from London city airport + 500 quid an hour to troubleshoot this mess... can't afford that sadly. 

At least what clear is that I must give up the idea of using the web / internet for anything. So I can't download network utilities for example. Well I can always download them on my main PC, burn them onto a CD. I guess that's how I managed back then to install the NI utilities and Netscape and other things.

2AM here now, I guess I will call it quits for now and hope to have some bright idea tomorrow when I wake up... 

[themadhippy]

can see an icon named " Livebox " which is the name of my ADSL box.

Has the adsl box got a usb port? If so try chucking  a usb drive on it and use it as  cheap n dirty network drive to share files between the 2 machines

[Zoli]

There you go !!!

Any good ? I bet no.... 

I looked in the other tabs in that dialog. At the very top of the peripheral list, we can see it detected an unknown peripheral that's called " PCI Universal Serial Bus  ", sounds promising eh !: 

I clicked on that. There is no driver installed for it. Tried to install one from that dialog. but couldn't find any driver for USB controllers 

It's just too old....


Tried some more websites... no luck. Can't vconnect to anything other than Google.com. I always get the error message I showed a minute ago.

I really need to get freaking local network ing going ! It's so frustrating, I am sure I am THAT close to having working.. .if only I knew what I was doing, what needs doing, and how to do it !!! 

I did make some progress though, but not enough : at first I thought this " Livrebox " folder in the network neighbourhood thing, was meant to show me my other / main computer, that I could then select.
But then I thought hey what if it didn't work like that. MAybe that Livebox folder  is just that, the livbebox. Maybe there is some hard drive / storage in the Livebox and this is what shows up in the " Livebox " folder. To try to confirm that, I tried to drag and drop some files into that Livebox folder.... Win95 then complained that : "you need to enable Microsoft files and printer sharing service in the Network utility, click there and come back". So I did that. Now I get a different error when I try to drop files there... from memory, something like "You don't have admin rights to do that" and "make sure "Livebox" has enable remote file sharing" or something.   So maybe I need to connect to the LiveBox itself and see if there are some filesharing options I could play with...

The good news is that the system is win95OSR2.0(OEM Service Release, messed up first time), so needs less messing around to have the mass storage device working.
Once you have the system and backed up, you can start messing with - I will gladly assist 
My advice: stop messing with the IBM and network(IIRC, you don't have a switch to have both of your computers on the network simultaneously), and focus on the GPIB side of the things.
As for the file transfer, I recommend the null-modem: 2 DB-female, connected with 3 wires: 5->5, 3->2, 2->3(5 is ground/shield). Software: the dreaded Hyper Terminal on Win95(check for the existence, install if necessary, part of the package);
For Linux, calling mansaxel 

[Vince]

can see an icon named " Livebox " which is the name of my ADSL box.

Has the adsl box got a usb port? If so try chucking  a usb drive on it and use it as  cheap n dirty network drive to share files between the 2 machines

Oh boy THANK YOU !!!! 


Yes I just looked it does have a couple USB ports. Shoved a USB stick in it that contains a few MP3 files. The old computer can now see these files in the " LiveBox" folder just fine ! I can read these files, and even copied some files to that folder as well, works fine !  Then tried doing the same from my main PC which runs Linux, works as well !

YES, I AM SAVED !!! 

USB key is 2GB so plenty enough for my purposes here.

Cool.... so I can now share files between the two computers this way, lovely !!! 

So now I need to extract the firmware from the scope....

Terra I looked at the post of yours you steered me to a few hours ago. You use a MS-DOS  command-lien tool called " tektool ". 

I don't have that. Hell I can't even find the Tek calibration S/W I used 5 years ago. Maybe it was meant to run straight off of a floppy disk rather installed on the hard drive, can't remember....

[vk6zgo]

No, no they are 3 Pin plugs, in Germany they're called "TF Stecker".

https://www.ebay.at/itm/Varianten-Siemens-Halske-TF-Stecker-3-Pol-DIN-41268-9REL-kli-6-V01-SuH-TF/303134412781?hash=item4694380fed:g:M60AAOSwsvZc9t4c&var=602741156035

I think TF is derived from "Trägerfrequenz", carrier frequency in english. They were (maybe still are?) extensively used in POTS applications.

PMG's Dept/Telecom Aust used them back in the day,& the the section I was in, which looked after the ABC transmitters, installed them at the TV Tx sites after around 1971 or thereabouts.
They also used the coax connectors which were common throughout the POTS network.

We just called them "Siemens Audio & Video" connectors, probably because the "Supply Branch" had their own "in-house" part numbers for both.

Later, when I worked for a Commercial TV Station, when we finally de-commisioned & dismantled our Siemens transmitters, I saved a very nice directional coupler from going to landfill, which had detectors connected to forward & reverse ports.
The coax connectors to the coupler were "spinner connectors", for which I found "N" adaptors amongst the junk, but the detected signal was via the same type of "Siemens video connectors" as we used at my previous job, so I have been looking around for some.

Both types of connectors seem to have "sunk like a stone" in Oz, with the best I could find of the coax ones being a link, as used in patch panels, which will need some "butchering" to be useful.
As it happens, though, I probably won't ever finish the project I had in mind for that setup, & will keep the directional coupler as a "general purpose" one.

[Vince]

There you go !!!

Any good ? I bet no.... 

I looked in the other tabs in that dialog. At the very top of the peripheral list, we can see it detected an unknown peripheral that's called " PCI Universal Serial Bus  ", sounds promising eh !: 

I clicked on that. There is no driver installed for it. Tried to install one from that dialog. but couldn't find any driver for USB controllers 

It's just too old....


Tried some more websites... no luck. Can't vconnect to anything other than Google.com. I always get the error message I showed a minute ago.

I really need to get freaking local network ing going ! It's so frustrating, I am sure I am THAT close to having working.. .if only I knew what I was doing, what needs doing, and how to do it !!! 

I did make some progress though, but not enough : at first I thought this " Livrebox " folder in the network neighbourhood thing, was meant to show me my other / main computer, that I could then select.
But then I thought hey what if it didn't work like that. MAybe that Livebox folder  is just that, the livbebox. Maybe there is some hard drive / storage in the Livebox and this is what shows up in the " Livebox " folder. To try to confirm that, I tried to drag and drop some files into that Livebox folder.... Win95 then complained that : "you need to enable Microsoft files and printer sharing service in the Network utility, click there and come back". So I did that. Now I get a different error when I try to drop files there... from memory, something like "You don't have admin rights to do that" and "make sure "Livebox" has enable remote file sharing" or something.   So maybe I need to connect to the LiveBox itself and see if there are some filesharing options I could play with...

The good news is that the system is win95OSR2.0(OEM Service Release, messed up first time), so needs less messing around to have the mass storage device working.
Once you have the system and backed up, you can start messing with - I will gladly assist 
My advice: stop messing with the IBM and network(IIRC, you don't have a switch to have both of your computers on the network simultaneously), and focus on the GPIB side of the things.
As for the file transfer, I recommend the null-modem: 2 DB-female, connected with 3 wires: 5->5, 3->2, 2->3(5 is ground/shield). Software: the dreaded Hyper Terminal on Win95(check for the existence, install if necessary, part of the package);
For Linux, calling mansaxel 

Oh good... or not  ! If you need to wipe the system, too much work reinstalling everything, that's why I hated Windows, too much work installing it !
I mean the GPIB stuff.. I can"t even remember how I uinstalled it, what S/W I got where, blah blah...  configuring IRQ and DMA to get the ISA cars to work, pfff...
I would have to try to remember all that then take note on how to reinsall everything.... that's work I hate 

OK... I guess it's worth it if I can get USB on that antique machine... but please can you tell me what kind of work we are going to need to do exactly ?

What's required ?

Luckily now that the machine has access to the USB key on the Livebox, the immediate problem is solved, I can now move on to the GPIB side of the problem...

For Linux / IT / Network stuff I prefer BD because same time zone and closer to me. It's cheaper to fly him here than Mansaxel.

[xrunner]

Email just received from my neighbor across the street -

Without going too much trouble, can you create a 1.6 Megahertz sound that can listen to and see on some kind of scope?

I've been watching a series on History Channel about Skinwalker ranch in Northern Utah where weird things have been happening for decades.  When weird things happen, a 1.6 megahertz sound is audible and it shows up on a scope.  The ranch is isolated and the sound could not be coming from a radio signal, satellite, or any known source.

I'll be calling him tomorrow ... 

[Vince]

You have really strange neighbours....

[vk6zgo]

No, no they are 3 Pin plugs, in Germany they're called "TF Stecker".

https://www.ebay.at/itm/Varianten-Siemens-Halske-TF-Stecker-3-Pol-DIN-41268-9REL-kli-6-V01-SuH-TF/303134412781

I think TF is derived from "Trägerfrequenz", carrier frequency in english. They were (maybe still are?) extensively used in POTS applications.

That is a nice one: TF-to-BNC connector:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/234337742989

That is a thing of beauty, though it does have the look of a very well executed "homebrew", rather than a factory item.

I would like to find an old TF plug & make one up, as from time to time, I need to do the same conversion.
This is mainly because I have a lot of RG58 cable,& very little audio cable, so it is easier to use BNC to BNC cords for unbalanced audio connections.

My little "hamfest" Levell audio generator has terminals which take banana plugs, spaced at the standard distance, so a TF plug would fit.
"Bodging one up" seems a lot of work for an unsatisfactory outcome, so it would be nice to find something with properly mounted pins.

[TERRA Operative]

Terra I looked at the post of yours you steered me to a few hours ago. You use a MS-DOS  command-lien tool called " tektool ". 

I don't have that. Hell I can't even find the Tek calibration S/W I used 5 years ago. Maybe it was meant to run straight off of a floppy disk rather installed on the hard drive, can't remember....

Here it is, in the attachments of this post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg2915458/#msg2915458

For the Field Adjustment Software, check the Tekwiki for your scope model number, I've been uploading everything I find there.
You'll need to install the software on your PC, and run it natively in DOS (Not a DOS window in Windows) but the readme with the Field Adjustment Software will tell you what to do.


Also, install this USB driver attached below, I've had good success in getting USB sticks to work on old Win98 machines using it.

[mnementh]

I wonder if I still have my old Win98 disk/license...

mnem
Scary part is... odds are I do...

[Vince]

Terra I looked at the post of yours you steered me to a few hours ago. You use a MS-DOS  command-lien tool called " tektool ". 

I don't have that. Hell I can't even find the Tek calibration S/W I used 5 years ago. Maybe it was meant to run straight off of a floppy disk rather installed on the hard drive, can't remember....

Here it is, in the attachments of this post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg2915458/#msg2915458

For the Field Adjustment Software, check the Tekwiki for your scope model number, I've been uploading everything I find there.
You'll need to install the software on your PC, and run it natively in DOS (Not a DOS window in Windows) but the readme with the Field Adjustment Software will tell you what to do.


Also, install this USB driver attached below, I've had good success in getting USB sticks to work on old Win98 machines using it.

Thanks Terra, have downloaded all that onto the shared USB stick on the LiveBox. and transferred it to the old GPÏB computer. It works just beautifully, I love this " networked attached  storage " thing, so practical ! 

So I just tried the USB driver... no joy. It syas " Sorry this Win98 utility is not compatible with your system ". Oh well... I guess it only works with 98 somehow. Was worth a shot...

I xcopy / pasted all the iusntructions you gave in that Tektool thread... into a raw text / ASCII texfile, so I can copy/past it directly, error-less, at the MS-DOS prompt.

Of course...I had first to spend 5 minutes "reconstructing" that text file on the old PC, because main PC runs Linux and Windows does use the same CR/LF conventions..... the joys of working on multiple Operating systems 

Skimmed the thread, looks like this is a home made alpha-software you get what you get kind of S/W, works when it feels like it, depends on the particular type and model and brand of GPIB adapter, the phase of the moon, and if it bricks your scope well, you can't complain.

That does NOT sound very engaging my dear Terra !!! 

May I remind you that I paid through the roof for this scope, though worthless in Japan, it cost me Freaking 500 Euros here and that's a a fortune for me.
Remember that I need to sell this scope to finance the 784D from you ! If your Tektool thing bricks my 544A, what do we do !!!! 

It's 3H30 here, getting tired.... not sure I want to try that right now... if the scope is bricked, I will be real angry and won't sleep well at all....

EDIT : I am motivated and too excited, I decided to at least try the first command line you mention in your instructions, line #7, because all ti does as I understand it, is do a quick read to identify the flash type.

Code: [Select]

7.) Identify flash type "tektool -i  -b 0x1000000 -l 0x10"
Harmless I thought, let's try that. So I copy the command from the text file, click in the prompt window, go to past it and... doesn't work ?!  What ?! You can't even bloody copy past text from a text file into a prompt window in Win95 ?!     

So I will need to type it all by hand... if I get the number of zeros wrong, you owe me a scope.

Stay tuned.

[TERRA Operative]

Nah, that tektool works flawlessly. I've never had it fail, and I use it a lot!

You also basically can't brick your scope by reading out the firmware and NVRAM. And even if you put the wrong firmware in, or a firmware flash fails. Just try again and it comes good. Trust me, I tried on purpose.  I stuck the wrong firmware in as an experiment and got a 'bricked' scope. I then reflashed the correct firmware and bingo! Happy scope again. (Flashing new firmware in does take a long time, expect 30-45 minutes....)

The trick is to first copy out your existing firmware and NVRAM (the NVRAM is important!). Then to upgrade the firmware, zero/erase the memory and then flash the new firmware first, then flash the old NVRAM back in second to make sure it's all fresh, Never had an issue doing it that way.

[Vince]

OK tried it..... but the computer says NO : Tektool doesn't work, see error below.

Windows complains about something, Tektool can't execute...

Something to do with a timer related function inside of a "Kernel32"  DLL / library.

Maybe I need a more recent version of that DLL 

See ? Nothing comes easy... I am cursed.

 

[TERRA Operative]

It's all part of the fun!

Unfortunately, I don't know any more details as I use the Keysight USB-GPIB adapter.

I do have a PC that will be using the ISA NI GPIB card, but I have to repair the PSU first so I can get it powered up.
So, I'll be following in your footsteps.

[Neomys Sapiens]

No, no they are 3 Pin plugs, in Germany they're called "TF Stecker".

https://www.ebay.at/itm/Varianten-Siemens-Halske-TF-Stecker-3-Pol-DIN-41268-9REL-kli-6-V01-SuH-TF/303134412781?hash=item4694380fed:g:M60AAOSwsvZc9t4c&var=602741156035

I think TF is derived from "Trägerfrequenz", carrier frequency in english. They were (maybe still are?) extensively used in POTS applications.

PMG's Dept/Telecom Aust used them back in the day,& the the section I was in, which looked after the ABC transmitters, installed them at the TV Tx sites after around 1971 or thereabouts.
They also used the coax connectors which were common throughout the POTS network.

We just called them "Siemens Audio & Video" connectors, probably because the "Supply Branch" had their own "in-house" part numbers for both.

Later, when I worked for a Commercial TV Station, when we finally de-commisioned & dismantled our Siemens transmitters, I saved a very nice directional coupler from going to landfill, which had detectors connected to forward & reverse ports.
The coax connectors to the coupler were "spinner connectors", for which I found "N" adaptors amongst the junk, but the detected signal was via the same type of "Siemens video connectors" as we used at my previous job, so I have been looking around for some.

Both types of connectors seem to have "sunk like a stone" in Oz, with the best I could find of the coax ones being a link, as used in patch panels, which will need some "butchering" to be useful.
As it happens, though, I probably won't ever finish the project I had in mind for that setup, & will keep the directional coupler as a "general purpose" one.

What you call 'Siemens connector' is normally called 1.6-5.6 (IEC169-13) and the 'Spinner connector' would have been probably 3-8 (IEC169-2) or 3.5-12 (IEC169-14), as those two seried were indeed often sourced from Spinner.

[Vince]

It's all part of the fun!

Unfortunately, I don't know any more details as I use the Keysight USB-GPIB adapter.

I do have a PC that will be using the ISA NI GPIB card, but I have to repair the PSU first so I can get it powered up.
So, I'll be following in your footsteps.

No no no, you got that backwards : YOU will get it working on your ISA PC, THEN you will tell me what to do to get mine to work. 

You better hurry up, I am not leaving this computer mess on my bench for more than a few days.
So go fix that PSU real quick. Ask for help if required, or just swap it for a new one if it's a standard  type unlike in my computer where everything is proprietary because, well, IBM...

[Neomys Sapiens]

Email just received from my neighbor across the street -

Without going too much trouble, can you create a 1.6 Megahertz sound that can listen to and see on some kind of scope?

I've been watching a series on History Channel about Skinwalker ranch in Northern Utah where weird things have been happening for decades.  When weird things happen, a 1.6 megahertz sound is audible and it shows up on a scope.  The ranch is isolated and the sound could not be coming from a radio signal, satellite, or any known source.

I'll be calling him tomorrow ... 

Might that be 1.6mHz? There are some observations from the Eifel area of similar phenomena. When heterodyned up into the audible range, it sounds like 'Mooo', but it is of geophysical origin. I think Wolfgang Friese wrote about that too.

[xrunner]

Email just received from my neighbor across the street -

Without going too much trouble, can you create a 1.6 Megahertz sound that can listen to and see on some kind of scope?

I've been watching a series on History Channel about Skinwalker ranch in Northern Utah where weird things have been happening for decades.  When weird things happen, a 1.6 megahertz sound is audible and it shows up on a scope.  The ranch is isolated and the sound could not be coming from a radio signal, satellite, or any known source.

I'll be calling him tomorrow ... 

Might that be 1.6mHz? There are some observations from the Eifel area of similar phenomena. When heterodyned up into the audible range, it sounds like 'Mooo', but it is of geophysical origin. I think Wolfgang Friese wrote about that too.

Possibly. I am not going to get into it via an email response - way too hard. Gotta be a phone call or visit. Clearly he can't mean a sound emission @ 1.6 MHz, who knows? I'll let you know what he was thinking.