Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Robert763]

Talking of low bandwidth 'scopes like Vince's 5111 I just did a BIN on a 5MHz Picoscope
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334515750807
Under £40 shipped.
No I'm not mad (well maybe) and it's not one of the 12 o 16 bit ones that are good for FFT. It will be filpped (when I get around to it) as part of a Gamma spectrometer setup. I've a few NaI(Tl) detectors and suitable powersupplies  and there is some nice software that uses the Picoscope range as ADCs. It works better with the higher resolution models but 8 bit is better than nothing.Apart from that the low bandwidth picoscopes are good for audio and also serial data decoding th sotware has most decodes built in even odd stuff like ARINC 429.

[Zenith]

No the meter parts I meant were the plastic casing, zero adjustor & glass (not the movement), I've had a few delivery victims that got smashed, or were missing parts, the 3400A was just an example of one I used the parts for. The movements in those are individually calibrated to the scale plate, need to carefully clean or mend the flaking scale and scan it at high resolution while it's out.

Meters with a logarithmic meter movement use different case parts & have no mechanical zero adjustment, eg this option H57 3400A, which was one of the worst victims of shit packing by the seller, the 435A/B would be an unsuitable donor in this case.

Forgot to mention you can salvage the power reference from the 435 too. Oh and it's difficult to find these meters for under £20 on ePay, maybe better luck at a Ham sale, but it's rare to find HP stuff at my local ones.

David

I didn't really look into the meter. I think the chances of having a duff 3400A meter are slim anyway. It's more or less a case with a few useful HP bits and pieces. The pushbutton switch on mine looks as if it would fit on something else. A lot of HP meters look similar and I assume the case and feet and so on are the same.

I used to see a few 432s at rallies for about a tenner. Then I didn't go to rallies for a few years, and then there was Covid. At the two rallies I went to last there were a few 435s. I didn't ask the price they were thinking of, but I doubt it was £10, which is what I'd say something basically useless, with a few HP bits I might use, was worth.

I see a reasonable amount of HP stuff at the rallies I go to. Some of the smaller ones can be surprisingly good. I have had good buys on ebay, but usually stuff goes for far too much. Ebay is convenient, and you have to factor in the cost of going to rallies or auctions. You can't see it entirely in terms of money and going to a rally an interesting day out anyway.

[bd139]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

[Zenith]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

The choppers are notorious in them. They are a photochopper using two neon bulbs which age and blacken. I don't know whether they can be replaced with the standard mains indicator type neon, or whether they were a special item.

I'm pretty sure that was changed in the later ones for an IC chopper amplifier.

[factory]

OK who deleted a post?

David

Bastards !! 

Wasn't me, but that is what you get: "play with the bull, you get the horns"

See my edited post, it was Specmaster  , I looked at the webpages on my phone, that I preloaded before work to read offline.

David

[mansaxel]

Wow that's for really ancient computers.... says it runs on MS-DOS2 2.x 

Even my Bull Micral 30, mt first computer 30 years ago, with no HDD and a couple 5 1/4" drives was running IIRC, DOS 3.3.

Nope, my GPIB computer is much more recent that this.... Pentium running Win95. So hopefully Win95 will be able to do most of the network stuff on its own, out of the box, and for the stuff it can't do, hopefully there is somewhere some Win95 based, user friendly, easy to use/configure program....

Then it's got everything it needs onboard; just get it a network card and off you go.  Do you have a free PCI slot? Then a 3Com 3c905-tx would be a good choice. They're available reasonably cheap used, and they worked really well (FSVO, it's Windows in the worst possible way we're talking about) back in the day.  Drivers still are possible to find too.  Besides, the support in real operating systems, even Linux, is excellent, so it's an OK investment.

[Vince]

OK who deleted a post?

David

Bastards !! 

Wasn't me, but that is what you get: "play with the bull, you get the horns"

See my edited post, it was Specmaster  , I looked at the webpages on my phone, that I preloaded before work to read offline.

David

I am very disappointed....

I will put him in a paper shredder, turn the Spec into lots of specks, then put it in a bowl and give it to her daughter's dog to eat.

I thought so highly of Spec, I am devastated now.

[ch_scr]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

The choppers are notorious in them. They are a photochopper using two neon bulbs which age and blacken. I don't know whether they can be replaced with the standard mains indicator type neon, or whether they were a special item.

I'm pretty sure that was changed in the later ones for an IC chopper amplifier.

Pretty sure CuriousMarc and MrCarlson did videos on this. AFAIR Marc found replacement bulbs and Carlson made a replacement oscillator PCB to drive orange LEDs.

[bd139]

The risky bit is not the bulb but the photocell. Difficult to replace. ORP12 ain’t gonna cut it 

HP article on photo choppers from my notes … https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_911.pdf

[factory]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

The choppers are notorious in them. They are a photochopper using two neon bulbs which age and blacken. I don't know whether they can be replaced with the standard mains indicator type neon, or whether they were a special item.

I'm pretty sure that was changed in the later ones for an IC chopper amplifier.

There were three different chopper boards over the design life of the 3400A, I have a three of them I repaired over the lockdown (two mid/late 60's design & one late design), I sacrificed another with duff thermocouple to provide chopper neons for one, chopper photocells for another and the PSU board for the last one.


Since then I bought the H57 version & repaired all the impact damage to the case, meter etc.


There is another I bought in the repair queue, this has the early chopper block, which is faulty.


The three different chopper boards in mine.




Another of the smaller optical chopper board, think it was the one I swapped the photocells.


David

[Specmaster]

OK who deleted a post?

David

Bastards !! 

Wasn't me, but that is what you get: "play with the bull, you get the horns"

See my edited post, it was Specmaster  , I looked at the webpages on my phone, that I preloaded before work to read offline.

David

I am very disappointed....

I will put him in a paper shredder, turn the Spec into lots of specks, then put it in a bowl and give it to her daughter's dog to eat.

I thought so highly of Spec, I am devastated now.

Oops, sorry, never meant to do that, meant to edit it but deleted by accident 

[ch_scr]

The risky bit is not the bulb but the photocell. Difficult to replace. ORP12 ain’t gonna cut it 

HP article on photo choppers from my notes … https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_911.pdf

This discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/measurements-of-leakage-current-and-offset-voltage-on-some-optofets-and-relays/
might help to find an applicable modern replacement. Only one way to truly find out, as usual 
Edit: There is a handy-dandy excel list with all the measurement results somewhat hidden in the first post attatchments 

[factory]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

The choppers are notorious in them. They are a photochopper using two neon bulbs which age and blacken. I don't know whether they can be replaced with the standard mains indicator type neon, or whether they were a special item.

I'm pretty sure that was changed in the later ones for an IC chopper amplifier.

Pretty sure CuriousMarc and MrCarlson did videos on this. AFAIR Marc found replacement bulbs and Carlson made a replacement oscillator PCB to drive orange LEDs.

I did watch the Carlson one (HP 419A video), need to look for the CuriousMarc one.

By the way HP did make a replacement transistor/neon oscillator board, for some of the early large block type. This replaced the mains derived oscillator (& selected neons), with a transistor based version that fits inside the block, I believe it was then able to use regular neons, not sure exactly which meters it was made for though.



David

[Vince]

Got mail from Canada tioday, thanks Zoli ! 

The ATmega128 to power up all my gizmos to come, and lots more with it ! 

RS232 drivers which will be handy since I intend to use that to connect my gizmos to my future lab computer.

Lovely tiny thermistors it looks like 

and.... the icing on the cake, some precision 120R 0.01% resistors !!!
My first precision resistors !! 
I got the cheap chinese Vref the other day, to check my DMMs... now I can check the ohms range as well 


Thank you very much !!! 

[BU508A]

A new machine, made by Joseph:



Man, this guy has a LOT of time.     

[tggzzz]

When daughter asks what I want her to do with my body after death, I tell her I'd be more than happy if she fed me to her dog. We are unconvinced we can find a way to make that legal

I always tell the wife that the waste bin is good enough for me. No need to waste money on it.

Directly being food seems more productive. Besides, every time she looked at the dog, she would be reminded of me.

That's as near to immortality as I can expect to get.

[factory]

The 34401A arrived a couple of days ago, packing wasn't great, they took the bumpers off as the box wasn't long enough, luckily it survived the journey. 
Looks in very nice condition, display is bright & has even illumination of all segments, need to find some time to check it functions correctly. It's design rev 3609, so 1996 week 9 or later.


David

[Zenith]

I had a duff 3400A. Chopper was shot

The choppers are notorious in them. They are a photochopper using two neon bulbs which age and blacken. I don't know whether they can be replaced with the standard mains indicator type neon, or whether they were a special item.

I'm pretty sure that was changed in the later ones for an IC chopper amplifier.

Pretty sure CuriousMarc and MrCarlson did videos on this. AFAIR Marc found replacement bulbs and Carlson made a replacement oscillator PCB to drive orange LEDs.

I'll look out for it. I like Mr Carlson. He makes good videos about the same load of old junk I like.

[mnementh]

ON THE BENCH TODAY: Modded TK Siglent MSO --> HP Pod Adapter

...One HP Pod #7 in unused condition, complete with original baggities. The tails for the clips are a bit stiff, but the coax are all still nice & supple. Included were a full set of 16 HP grabbits, all delightfully tiny and smoooth like buttah.   

   

I finally have all the 3DP fiddly bits all fiddled into something usable, so here's the link:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/msg4326775/#msg4326775

If you look closely above, you'll see there's an added "side project" as well!

Cheers!

mnem
 

[Vince]

GPIB FUN

Some of the current DVD/BD writers still support CD writing, and it can be adapted thru SATA/IDE bridge. USB: the lowest possible addition is a PCI(not PCI-E) card, if the motherboard doesn't has included. If you need any software for those cases, let me know, and I will dig out something for you.

Hmm yes, a USB interface card that sounds like a feasible plan...
I just made an effort and dug out my GPIB computer. IBM APtiva circa 1996. Pentium Win95.
It has a  mix of ISA and PCI slots.  x5 ISA + x2 PCI.

One ISA at the top occupied by the OEM sound card.
Another ISA at the very bottom is the GPIB card... took it out, appears to be the exact same model that I just got from Robert the other day ! 
Oh well, you can never enough genuine NI GPIB cards, I say ! 
So this is the appropriate card that's required to run the Tek TDS calibration S/W, that I could never get to do anything IIRC.... 

Looking closely my card is younger, 1991 rev 'E' versus 1990 rev 'B'.


Then one PCI slot occupied by a lovely Matrox Millenium graphics card that I put because... IIRC the on-board graphics adapter didn't cut it for my then 17" CRT.

Second and last PCI slot is occupied by.. a network card !    Had forgotten I had put that in !
I sure didn't do anything with it, that I can remember at least, but it's there !

Then it's got everything it needs onboard; just get it a network card and off you go.  Do you have a free PCI slot? Then a 3Com 3c905-tx would be a good choice.

See above, yeah I already got a PCI Network card in there !! 

I took it out to show you... looks like it's exactly what you advised me to get ! 3COM 3C905-tx ! 

Now that memories are coming back slowly, IIRC I did download the driver for that card, back then. Must be on the "Desktop". Can't remember if I did install it or not... will soon find out ! though !
So if I can find an Ethernet cable in my stock, that's long enough to connect to the ADSL box, or to the nearest RJ45 socket in the living room.... I could try as a first step to see if I can get it on the internet !
Then work it some more and try to connect to my main computer to access files or my // port printer or god knows what.

The firmware file is 4096Kb, so would need a few floppies, it crunches down to a little over 1000Kb with Winrar on 'best' setting though so that would make things easier.

Only 4096kb ?! That's only 512KB, it easily fits on a floppy, not need to compress or split anything !!! 

Maybe you can buy a Keysight USB-GPIB adapter from ebay with your first pay cheque!..

Sadly no !: Looking at my finances, negative 6,000 Euros, it's already a given that in the unlikely event where I won't get fired in the first two weeks on that job.... it's already planned, mandatory, that I save my first 6 months / cheques to improve my financial situation before I can contemplate 100/150 Euros expenses ! 
I mean, I don't have an immediate need for GPIB stuff.... I ony need it to get you the F/W. So I will try to do that on the chezap with I have got here at my disposal, and that's it. I am not going to spend money on a USB adapter anytime soon. At the soonest I would consider buying that, once the lab is computerized. At which point I would get a GPIB adapter, EPROM programmer, logic analyzer, stuff like that.


OK, so let's see if that computer still fires up and see if I can find a cable to connect it to the ADSL box, and see if I can find my GPIB cable because... well it's quite needed isn't it ?! 

[Zoli]

Got mail from Canada tioday, thanks Zoli ! 

The ATmega128 to power up all my gizmos to come, and lots more with it ! 

RS232 drivers which will be handy since I intend to use that to connect my gizmos to my future lab computer.

Lovely tiny thermistors it looks like 

and.... the icing on the cake, some precision 120R 0.01% resistors !!!
My first precision resistors !! 
I got the cheap chinese Vref the other day, to check my DMMs... now I can check the ohms range as well 


Thank you very much !!! 

Wow, that was less than  a week; Enjoy!

[Zoli]

GPIB FUN

Some of the current DVD/BD writers still support CD writing, and it can be adapted thru SATA/IDE bridge. USB: the lowest possible addition is a PCI(not PCI-E) card, if the motherboard doesn't has included. If you need any software for those cases, let me know, and I will dig out something for you.

Hmm yes, a USB interface card that sounds like a feasible plan...
I just made an effort and dug out my GPIB computer. IBM APtiva circa 1996. Pentium Win95.
It has a  mix of ISA and PCI slots.  x5 ISA + x2 PCI.

One ISA at the top occupied by the OEM sound card.
Another ISA at the very bottom is the GPIB card... took it out, appears to be the exact same model that I just got from Robert the other day ! 
Oh well, you can never enough genuine NI GPIB cards, I say ! 
So this is the appropriate card that's required to run the Tek TDS calibration S/W, that I could never get to do anything IIRC.... 

Looking closely my card is younger, 1991 rev 'E' versus 1990 rev 'B'.


Then one PCI slot occupied by a lovely Matrox Millenium graphics card that I put because... IIRC the on-board graphics adapter didn't cut it for my then 17" CRT.

Second and last PCI slot is occupied by.. a network card !    Had forgotten I had put that in !
I sure didn't do anything with it, that I can remember at least, but it's there !

Then it's got everything it needs onboard; just get it a network card and off you go.  Do you have a free PCI slot? Then a 3Com 3c905-tx would be a good choice.

See above, yeah I already got a PCI Network card in there !! 

I took it out to show you... looks like it's exactly what you advised me to get ! 3COM 3C905-tx ! 

Now that memories are coming back slowly, IIRC I did download the driver for that card, back then. Must be on the "Desktop". Can't remember if I did install it or not... will soon find out ! though !
So if I can find an Ethernet cable in my stock, that's long enough to connect to the ADSL box, or to the nearest RJ45 socket in the living room.... I could try as a first step to see if I can get it on the internet !
Then work it some more and try to connect to my main computer to access files or my // port printer or god knows what.

The firmware file is 4096Kb, so would need a few floppies, it crunches down to a little over 1000Kb with Winrar on 'best' setting though so that would make things easier.

Only 4096kb ?! That's only 512KB, it easily fits on a floppy, not need to compress or split anything !!! 

Maybe you can buy a Keysight USB-GPIB adapter from ebay with your first pay cheque!..

Sadly no !: Looking at my finances, negative 6,000 Euros, it's already a given that in the unlikely event where I won't get fired in the first two weeks on that job.... it's already planned, mandatory, that I save my first 6 months / cheques to improve my financial situation before I can contemplate 100/150 Euros expenses ! 
I mean, I don't have an immediate need for GPIB stuff.... I ony need it to get you the F/W. So I will try to do that on the chezap with I have got here at my disposal, and that's it. I am not going to spend money on a USB adapter anytime soon. At the soonest I would consider buying that, once the lab is computerized. At which point I would get a GPIB adapter, EPROM programmer, logic analyzer, stuff like that.


OK, so let's see if that computer still fires up and see if I can find a cable to connect it to the ADSL box, and see if I can find my GPIB cable because... well it's quite needed isn't it ?! 

Do you see what I see?   

[mnementh]

Got mail from Canada tioday, thanks Zoli ! 

The ATmega128 to power up all my gizmos to come, and lots more with it ! 

RS232 drivers which will be handy since I intend to use that to connect my gizmos to my future lab computer.

Lovely tiny thermistors it looks like 

and.... the icing on the cake, some precision 120R 0.01% resistors !!!
My first precision resistors !! 
I got the cheap chinese Vref the other day, to check my DMMs... now I can check the ohms range as well 


Thank you very much !!!     

Thanks Zoli, for being the spirit of TEA today! 

mnem

[Vince]

GPIB FUN

Some of the current DVD/BD writers still support CD writing, and it can be adapted thru SATA/IDE bridge. USB: the lowest possible addition is a PCI(not PCI-E) card, if the motherboard doesn't has included. If you need any software for those cases, let me know, and I will dig out something for you.

Hmm yes, a USB interface card that sounds like a feasible plan...
I just made an effort and dug out my GPIB computer. IBM APtiva circa 1996. Pentium Win95.
It has a  mix of ISA and PCI slots.  x5 ISA + x2 PCI.

One ISA at the top occupied by the OEM sound card.
Another ISA at the very bottom is the GPIB card... took it out, appears to be the exact same model that I just got from Robert the other day ! 
Oh well, you can never enough genuine NI GPIB cards, I say ! 
So this is the appropriate card that's required to run the Tek TDS calibration S/W, that I could never get to do anything IIRC.... 

Looking closely my card is younger, 1991 rev 'E' versus 1990 rev 'B'.


Then one PCI slot occupied by a lovely Matrox Millenium graphics card that I put because... IIRC the on-board graphics adapter didn't cut it for my then 17" CRT.

Second and last PCI slot is occupied by.. a network card !    Had forgotten I had put that in !
I sure didn't do anything with it, that I can remember at least, but it's there !

Then it's got everything it needs onboard; just get it a network card and off you go.  Do you have a free PCI slot? Then a 3Com 3c905-tx would be a good choice.

See above, yeah I already got a PCI Network card in there !! 

I took it out to show you... looks like it's exactly what you advised me to get ! 3COM 3C905-tx ! 

Now that memories are coming back slowly, IIRC I did download the driver for that card, back then. Must be on the "Desktop". Can't remember if I did install it or not... will soon find out ! though !
So if I can find an Ethernet cable in my stock, that's long enough to connect to the ADSL box, or to the nearest RJ45 socket in the living room.... I could try as a first step to see if I can get it on the internet !
Then work it some more and try to connect to my main computer to access files or my // port printer or god knows what.

The firmware file is 4096Kb, so would need a few floppies, it crunches down to a little over 1000Kb with Winrar on 'best' setting though so that would make things easier.

Only 4096kb ?! That's only 512KB, it easily fits on a floppy, not need to compress or split anything !!! 

Maybe you can buy a Keysight USB-GPIB adapter from ebay with your first pay cheque!..

Sadly no !: Looking at my finances, negative 6,000 Euros, it's already a given that in the unlikely event where I won't get fired in the first two weeks on that job.... it's already planned, mandatory, that I save my first 6 months / cheques to improve my financial situation before I can contemplate 100/150 Euros expenses ! 
I mean, I don't have an immediate need for GPIB stuff.... I ony need it to get you the F/W. So I will try to do that on the chezap with I have got here at my disposal, and that's it. I am not going to spend money on a USB adapter anytime soon. At the soonest I would consider buying that, once the lab is computerized. At which point I would get a GPIB adapter, EPROM programmer, logic analyzer, stuff like that.


OK, so let's see if that computer still fires up and see if I can find a cable to connect it to the ADSL box, and see if I can find my GPIB cable because... well it's quite needed isn't it ?! 

Do you see what I see?   

Yes but it's from 1996. My first computer I bought was a year younger, 1997 IIRC. It too had " USB "but... it was an ancient / early days version of it that would not work with any peripheral. It might has well not even be there. The BIOS doesn't even recognize it IIRC and there is no driver for them. It's like they soldered USB connectors to look "advanced", state of the art but... it's all show and no go 

Not a USB expert of course, but it's just my experience...

[Vince]

GPIB FUN

OK I am motivated tonight ! Midnight here and kicking arse ! 

Didn't find a super long Ethernet cable that would let me reach the ADSL box in the electrical  cabinet. Longest I have is only 4M long. I did locate the Ethernet walls ocket dedicated to the lab but.... although I can SEE it, I can not ACCESS it, not even in my dreams. Forget it.  So instead I plugged the cable to the next nearest socket, in a different corner of the living room. It's juuuuuuust about long enough, if I move some junk off of the bench, and put the computer on one end of the bench, where it is most impractical for me.

Found a crappy monitor, that I had fixed recently. Found the K/B and mouse that I had bought for that particular PC.  GPIB cable was in the same box, hooray.

GPIB cable however is very short, only 1.5M long. So had to pull the TDS scope (544A for now) out and put it on the bench. Then you stir all that to try to make it all fit together, and that's what you get, pretty isn't it ?!

No, I am not leaving it like that for more than a couple days... the week-end at most. So my dear Terra, it better work as is, or I give up and the next attempt will be muuuuuuuuuuuch later, when the lab gets computerized properly. So 12 months at best I would say... who knows ! 

So..... I have a GPIB computer. An ISA genuine NI car, a GPIB cable, an Ethernet card connected to the ADSL box / router....

Shall we now fire the thing up to see what it does ?!

Stay tuned !!!!