Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Wow woke up this morning and no one has killed anyone after Vince”s epic trolling yesterday. Is everyone ok? 

I'll spare Vince's life if he gives me a copy of the firmware in his TDS694C. 

Of course my dear Terra, of course.... it's in the queue already along with the 544A.

You will get both at the same time.

I could hastily try to dig out my antique GPIB computer to do it now (that would be a major undertaking though), but then I would have no way of transferring the resulting file, which presumably won't fit on a 1.44MB floppy... onto my main computer so I can send it to you. Or maybe I can add an old Ethernet card to that antique computer, connect that to the router / ADSL box, and maybe that will automagically let me access the old GPIB computer from my main computer. However if it's not 100% automatic / automagical, then it will never work because I know squat about configuring networks.

Or maybe I could split the F/W file into multiple floppies, using ZIP or RAR utility. IIRC I have a NOW box of 10 Floppies. So that could make for up to 15MB or so total size.... how big are F/W files for these TDS scopes ??
OF course that would require me to spend money to buy an external USB floppy drive to put on my main computer, but I understand these can found for very cheap these days, especially used. Plus I wanted to get one anyway, so I can retrieve screenshots from my TDS scopes. So I would be willing to make that expense.

However using Ethernet would be much cooler and practical and faster, I find, if I could know how to make it work 

No, no CD writer nor USB in that machine, in case you wondered. Also got rid, sadly, of my 100MB // port ZIP drive 15 years ago, so can't use that either.

EDIT : forgot, the 694C needs fixing first of all I think !!! some of the keys around the CRT do'nt work, I noticed the other day, so I might not be able to enter menus, or select appropriate options, to enable GPIB connectivity to begin with  ! 

But didn't you say one can retrieve the F/W from the serial port as well   In this case I could connect the scope directly to my main computer, which would solve the file transfer issue... but that would awfully slow I imagine...
Much prefer trying to get Ethernet to work though, sounds a lot cooler to me    Plus, I need to figure this stuff out anyway, once I get to buy a second PC to computerize the lab. I will want both computers to access the internet, and be able to share files and resources.

[timenutgoblin]

PAPER FEED


<LF> 0x0A
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<LF> 0x0A
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...

 

4C 4F 4C

[Saskia]

what a waste of highly priced premium screen space ...

[pcprogrammer]

Page 5111 AT LAST !
Almost 2AM, geez I can go to bed now 
So here it is, my Tek scope type 5111.

There are two reasonable responses to the preceeding posts:

• somebody please go back and delete one of their messages. I'd volunteer, but all my posts are worth preserving in a museum
• this group is going to get really repetitive for a while...
  
  

Tggzzz, your page counter is broken, you need to do something about it...maybe call your HA that will try to contact the IT guy who sold you your computer...

He is the IT guy

By modifying settings in your profile, you can change the number of messages per page

[mansaxel]

No, no they are 3 Pin plugs, in Germany they're called "TF Stecker".

https://www.ebay.at/itm/Varianten-Siemens-Halske-TF-Stecker-3-Pol-DIN-41268-9REL-kli-6-V01-SuH-TF/303134412781?hash=item4694380fed:g:M60AAOSwsvZc9t4c&var=602741156035

I think TF is derived from "Trägerfrequenz", carrier frequency in english. They were (maybe still are?) extensively used in POTS applications.

Thanks. Not a large supply, though. And insane prices. One seller wants 7,80€ for a female XLR copy that sells in original, new, for 3,50 at Thomann..

[BU508A]

No, no they are 3 Pin plugs, in Germany they're called "TF Stecker".

https://www.ebay.at/itm/Varianten-Siemens-Halske-TF-Stecker-3-Pol-DIN-41268-9REL-kli-6-V01-SuH-TF/303134412781?hash=item4694380fed:g:M60AAOSwsvZc9t4c&var=602741156035

I think TF is derived from "Trägerfrequenz", carrier frequency in english. They were (maybe still are?) extensively used in POTS applications.

Thanks. Not a large supply, though. And insane prices. One seller wants 7,80€ for a female XLR copy that sells in original, new, for 3,50 at Thomann..

If you want to assemble something by yourself, those Stäubli (MultiContact) 4mm banana plugs may be useful:

https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/bananenstecker/2263095
Ca. 3.50 EUR per plug, one has to take 5 (VPE 5).

[xrunner]

He is the IT guy

By modifying settings in your profile, you can change the number of messages per page

Right, so the selections in your profile are 5, 10, 25, 50.

Here I changed it to 5 and I am on page 25557. 

[Vince]

Page 5111 AT LAST !
Almost 2AM, geez I can go to bed now 
So here it is, my Tek scope type 5111.

There are two reasonable responses to the preceeding posts:

• somebody please go back and delete one of their messages. I'd volunteer, but all my posts are worth preserving in a museum
• this group is going to get really repetitive for a while...
  
  

Tggzzz, your page counter is broken, you need to do something about it...maybe call your HA that will try to contact the IT guy who sold you your computer...

He is the IT guy

By modifying settings in your profile, you can change the number of messages per page

Yes I know, was just poking him 

[Vince]

He is the IT guy

By modifying settings in your profile, you can change the number of messages per page

Right, so the selections in your profile are 5, 10, 25, 50.

Here I changed it to 5 and I am on page 25557. 

It's a bit of a problem... what's the relevance / point of posting TE if there is no fixed length page setting... we just aren't all on the same page !   

I would need a " 500 " per page setting so I can roll back and be able to post all my glowing Tek scopes and 2200 series scopes 

Should we continue posting TE then ? 

[xrunner]

It's a bit of a problem... what's the relevance / point of posting TE if there is no fixed length page setting...

Uh ... umm ... show everybody your unique creativity? 

[mnementh]

PAPER FEED


<LF> 0x0A
...
...
<MUCH snipped>
...
...

You do realise that it's the number of messages, not their length that determines when the 'page' number flips? Right? 

Of course he knows this... but posting anything less ridiculously long would not have punished us properly for being too slow getting to page 5111... 

mnem
*impairing productivity since nineteen mumblety-mumble*

[Zoli]

Wow woke up this morning and no one has killed anyone after Vince”s epic trolling yesterday. Is everyone ok? 

I'll spare Vince's life if he gives me a copy of the firmware in his TDS694C. 

Of course my dear Terra, of course.... it's in the queue already along with the 544A.

You will get both at the same time.

I could hastily try to dig out my antique GPIB computer to do it now (that would be a major undertaking though), but then I would have no way of transferring the resulting file, which presumably won't fit on a 1.44MB floppy... onto my main computer so I can send it to you. Or maybe I can add an old Ethernet card to that antique computer, connect that to the router / ADSL box, and maybe that will automagically let me access the old GPIB computer from my main computer. However if it's not 100% automatic / automagical, then it will never work because I know squat about configuring networks.

Or maybe I could split the F/W file into multiple floppies, using ZIP or RAR utility. IIRC I have a NOW box of 10 Floppies. So that could make for up to 15MB or so total size.... how big are F/W files for these TDS scopes ??
OF course that would require me to spend money to buy an external USB floppy drive to put on my main computer, but I understand these can found for very cheap these days, especially used. Plus I wanted to get one anyway, so I can retrieve screenshots from my TDS scopes. So I would be willing to make that expense.

However using Ethernet would be much cooler and practical and faster, I find, if I could know how to make it work 

No, no CD writer nor USB in that machine, in case you wondered. Also got rid, sadly, of my 100MB // port ZIP drive 15 years ago, so can't use that either.

EDIT : forgot, the 694C needs fixing first of all I think !!! some of the keys around the CRT do'nt work, I noticed the other day, so I might not be able to enter menus, or select appropriate options, to enable GPIB connectivity to begin with  ! 

But didn't you say one can retrieve the F/W from the serial port as well   In this case I could connect the scope directly to my main computer, which would solve the file transfer issue... but that would awfully slow I imagine...
Much prefer trying to get Ethernet to work though, sounds a lot cooler to me    Plus, I need to figure this stuff out anyway, once I get to buy a second PC to computerize the lab. I will want both computers to access the internet, and be able to share files and resources.

Some of the current DVD/BD writers still support CD writing, and it can be adapted thru SATA/IDE bridge. USB: the lowest possible addition is a PCI(not PCI-E) card, if the motherboard doesn't has included. If you need any software for those cases, let me know, and I will dig out something for you.

[capt bullshot]

And now for something TEA related - fresh from the "Fun with TEA" dept. (in this case, rather the fun with TEC dept.):

For no obvious reason, I decided to play with some TEC (thermoelectric coolers) modules. My goal was to reach -20°C without water cooling of the heat dissipating side. Missed that by some degrees.

Conclusion: A three layer stack like the one below doesn't work much better than a two layer stack (maybe 45K differential achieved with three layers, and 40K diff with two layers). To get down to -20°C at the cold side, one needs the heat sink at 20°C or below. That's not so easy at about 23°C room and 28°C outside. So failed for now, either I need water cooling or wait for the winter ...

Anyway, I tried to stack these TECs, tried a stack of two or three of them. Here's the three module stack experiment:

One wants to monitor the power going into the setup closely, so that's where the WT1600 jumps in. Of course, we need some temperature measurements, too.



Each layer of the stack is operated at a different current, largest at the bottom / heat sink, smallest at the top / cold side. So one wants a separate adjustable power supply for each layer.



Here's some pictures of the DUT:










BTW
If you wire up that stack in the wrong polarity, it acts as an heater. Anyway, it heats up that fast, the internal solder connections of the middle layer modules melt and the modules go open circuit - ask me how I know 

[Specmaster]

Page 5111 AT LAST !
Almost 2AM, geez I can go to bed now 
So here it is, my Tek scope type 5111.

There are two reasonable responses to the preceeding posts:

• somebody please go back and delete one of their messages. I'd volunteer, but all my posts are worth preserving in a museum
• this group is going to get really repetitive for a while...
  
  

Tggzzz, your page counter is broken, you need to do something about it...maybe call your HA that will try to contact the IT guy who sold you your computer...

EDIT : sorry, wasn't it Spec instead dealing with this ? I just have no memory, I just don't 

Geez, I think that you seriously need to be getting to bed a hell of a lot earlier to catch on your sleep and maybe your memory might return as a bonus. Yes, I'm having issues with my HA approved PV, but my computer is just fine and the page count (most importantly) is correct, nice scope that 5111 though, why wouldn't you have that as your daily driver scope 

[capt bullshot]

That's the internal construction of these TEC. Don't know what kind of solder they're using, apparently it has a quite low melting point, opening the module took way shorter than I expected.

[Vince]

And now for something TEA related - fresh from the "Fun with TEA" dept. (in this case, rather the fun with TEC dept.):

That Toellner 7741 audio sign gen looks all the world like an old Philips product.. was it a rebranded Philips then ?! 

[Specmaster]

Update time on the accidental calculator eBay purchase, its arrived and wouldn't you know it, it also needs the same 12 digit LED bubble type display as the last one  So now I'm looking for 2 display modules or 2 similar calculators that may have other issues, but could be possible donors for the displays.

The calculators are made by Commodore and the displays I need are the ones as used on their LED display special function type, i.e, scientific, financial, statistician or navigator type of offerings.   

Just in case I attach the pictures again of the display type I need, you never know, someone might have some or know where I could try to find them?

[TERRA Operative]

Wow woke up this morning and no one has killed anyone after Vince”s epic trolling yesterday. Is everyone ok? 

I'll spare Vince's life if he gives me a copy of the firmware in his TDS694C. 

Of course my dear Terra, of course.... it's in the queue already along with the 544A.

You will get both at the same time.

I could hastily try to dig out my antique GPIB computer to do it now (that would be a major undertaking though), but then I would have no way of transferring the resulting file, which presumably won't fit on a 1.44MB floppy... onto my main computer so I can send it to you. Or maybe I can add an old Ethernet card to that antique computer, connect that to the router / ADSL box, and maybe that will automagically let me access the old GPIB computer from my main computer. However if it's not 100% automatic / automagical, then it will never work because I know squat about configuring networks.

Or maybe I could split the F/W file into multiple floppies, using ZIP or RAR utility. IIRC I have a NOW box of 10 Floppies. So that could make for up to 15MB or so total size.... how big are F/W files for these TDS scopes ??
OF course that would require me to spend money to buy an external USB floppy drive to put on my main computer, but I understand these can found for very cheap these days, especially used. Plus I wanted to get one anyway, so I can retrieve screenshots from my TDS scopes. So I would be willing to make that expense.

However using Ethernet would be much cooler and practical and faster, I find, if I could know how to make it work 

No, no CD writer nor USB in that machine, in case you wondered. Also got rid, sadly, of my 100MB // port ZIP drive 15 years ago, so can't use that either.

EDIT : forgot, the 694C needs fixing first of all I think !!! some of the keys around the CRT do'nt work, I noticed the other day, so I might not be able to enter menus, or select appropriate options, to enable GPIB connectivity to begin with  ! 

But didn't you say one can retrieve the F/W from the serial port as well   In this case I could connect the scope directly to my main computer, which would solve the file transfer issue... but that would awfully slow I imagine...
Much prefer trying to get Ethernet to work though, sounds a lot cooler to me    Plus, I need to figure this stuff out anyway, once I get to buy a second PC to computerize the lab. I will want both computers to access the internet, and be able to share files and resources.

The firmware file is 4096Kb, so would need a few floppies, it crunches down to a little over 1000Kb with Winrar on 'best' setting though so that would make things easier.

I don't know about extracting firmware via serial port as I've never done it. I always use the GPIB port as in this link:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg3758918/#msg3758918
The GPIB should just work, it's enabled by default, but if it doesn't work straight up, a factory reset will get the settings working again.

Maybe you can buy a Keysight USB-GPIB adapter from ebay with your first pay cheque!..

For the buttons, try cleaning the carbn pads and PCB with isopropyl alcohol, I've had success doing that.
Otherwise some conductive carbn ink works really well too. I use stuff from www.bareconductive.com that comes in a 10mL tube for a reasonable price.

[capt bullshot]

And now for something TEA related - fresh from the "Fun with TEA" dept. (in this case, rather the fun with TEC dept.):

That Toellner 7741 audio sign gen looks all the world like an old Philips product.. was it a rebranded Philips then ?! 

No, it isn't. Afaik, Toellner doesn't do brand labeling. If you open one of their devices, you'll always recognize their "style" of mounting the circuit boards into the casing.

[Vince]

Page 5111 AT LAST !
Almost 2AM, geez I can go to bed now 
So here it is, my Tek scope type 5111.

There are two reasonable responses to the preceeding posts:

• somebody please go back and delete one of their messages. I'd volunteer, but all my posts are worth preserving in a museum
• this group is going to get really repetitive for a while...
  
  

Tggzzz, your page counter is broken, you need to do something about it...maybe call your HA that will try to contact the IT guy who sold you your computer...

EDIT : sorry, wasn't it Spec instead dealing with this ? I just have no memory, I just don't 

Geez, I think that you seriously need to be getting to bed a hell of a lot earlier to catch on your sleep and maybe your memory might return as a bonus. Yes, I'm having issues with my HA approved PV, but my computer is just fine and the page count (most importantly) is correct, nice scope that 5111 though, why wouldn't you have that as your daily driver scope 

Well might be fine for basic audio work repair, I am sure, but it's not my line of work. 1MHz is not good enough for general purpose work here. Also lack features like automatic measurements, cursor, and a delayed time base.
Daily driver for me is the 4x200MHz Combiscope, and now the HP Megazoom.
The 5111 is still right above them though, within easy reach, because I love it. I need to see it all the time... I want to fix it so I can use it when its specs suffice. I don't intend to put it in storage and let it gather dust and rot. I want to make use of its storage tube... but I need to fix that first, and all the other issues... as I said at the moment it's very sick so can't use it.

[Vince]

And now for something TEA related - fresh from the "Fun with TEA" dept. (in this case, rather the fun with TEC dept.):

That Toellner 7741 audio sign gen looks all the world like an old Philips product.. was it a rebranded Philips then ?! 

No, it isn't. Afaik, Toellner doesn't do brand labeling. If you open one of their devices, you'll always recognize their "style" of mounting the circuit boards into the casing.

That makes it even more odd then... why would they copy the Philips look if that's their own design... I mean I had a quick Google and their products aren't Philips looking... even that 7741. Your particular 7741 is the only they made look like a Philips, how odd !!    Maybe a special order, a prototype... you stumbled upon an extremely rare piece !

[25 CPS]

Some quick lunchtime fun:

I didn't have a specific need for a Fluke 8060A but it was available for reasonable money so I got it to complement the IBM branded version of the 8060A I've had for a few years.  I did a couple of quick tests on it and so far it loooks good
<SNIP>



Here are the two takes of the same meter side by side.  I'm not sure why the contrast on the two displays is so different; both meters are original and have not been recapped so I don't know if it's attributable to that, the zebra stripes, different specs from IBM, different ageing or luck of the draw.

There were at least two standards of LCD on the Fluke badged 8060A. The earlier one had a separate front polariser, the later had it stuck to the glass.  The interconnects were different too but they don't normally affect the overall contrast.

Interesting; I've never dug into the service information on these meters.  The IBM one came with a photocopy of the operating instructions tucked into the case.  Here's the picture I took of the IBM 8060A when I got it on 5 November 2020:



The display doesn't look so dark in that picture but that was held at a different angle under weak autumn sun.  I'm going to have to take the IBM one outside in the even when the sun's going and see if the display looks the same or if it really has darkened over the last two years it's been in the drawer.  The side by side picture was a bit difficult to take since I was trying to balance the best angle to have both LCDs at the same time while avoiding glare from the overhead lights at work.

Could it possibly be that the IBM one has a polarising filter beneath the screen glass? I recently disassembled an old calculator in order to replace its button cell, and in doing so the LCD popped out. When I put it back together, the display was almost unreadable and of course my first reaction was that the button cell must be flat, so I took it all apart and checked its voltage. It was 3.3V, I had actually put the polarising filter in back to front, reversing it cured the problem.

See my earlier post. Some 8060As (early) have a separate polariser. If you flip it the display is unreadable. You can't rotate it because it has notches at the bottom.

There are a couple of test equipment projects at home that I'd like to knock out this weekend if possible, including taking a look at the internals of the two 8060A meters.  If flipping the polarizer around on on the IBM one is possible to do and yields a more readable display, that's what I'll do.

The display on the IBM unit since it is perfectly usable when you position it so the LCD is easy to read as you do with anything that has an LCD display so I never thought twice about it until I got the Fluke one and saw the difference between the two.

[capt bullshot]

And now for something TEA related - fresh from the "Fun with TEA" dept. (in this case, rather the fun with TEC dept.):

That Toellner 7741 audio sign gen looks all the world like an old Philips product.. was it a rebranded Philips then ?! 

No, it isn't. Afaik, Toellner doesn't do brand labeling. If you open one of their devices, you'll always recognize their "style" of mounting the circuit boards into the casing.

That makes it even more odd then... why would they copy the Philips look if that's their own design... I mean I had a quick Google and their products aren't Philips looking... even that 7741. Your particular 7741 is the only they made look like a Philips, how odd !!    Maybe a special order, a prototype... you stumbled upon an extremely rare piece !

Their design changed over time, there's some other function generators that have the same design as mine. You'll find older ones looking different.
The 7741 is a not so common one, indeed. It has a power amplifier built in, and can deliver 63W (iirc) of output power (at 45V peak-to-peak) into the load. Hence the rather low upper frequency.

[Cerebus]

• somebody please go back and delete one of their messages. I'd volunteer, but all my posts are worth preserving in a museum

If the posts are worthy of putting in a museum, does that imply that the poster's proper place is in a museum too? Asking for a friend...

[tggzzz]

He is the IT guy

By modifying settings in your profile, you can change the number of messages per page

Right, so the selections in your profile are 5, 10, 25, 50.

Here I changed it to 5 and I am on page 25557. 

Q: what's 2+2?
Politician: 10 or 1, depending on what I want you to hear.
Poor accountant: 3.99999999
Average accountant: 4
Good accountant: "what do you want it to be?"

So... Pick a number. Any number[1]

[1] for number = 5, 10, 20, 50