Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[xrunner]

Enough already!

I agree. All that arguing is why I don't post nearly as much as I used to. I have better things to do. I've been waiting to post an update but not until that crap dies down.

[Zucca]

[Zoli]

Hey it's HP. Doesn't matter which side, I'm sure we appreciate it. Apart from med 

Edit: so the whole blowing a PROM thing lead to a rabbit hole where I found the schematics for my old Z80 SBC I built when I was 12 which I never really liked. Mulling ideas around a 6502 variant with FORTH as a bench utility computer. Can probably put one together for less than the price of a BBC at the moment which have reached extortion value. And of course incur hours of glorious fettling.

Oh I misunderstood... thought you had your childhood BBC computer still with you, albeit inaccessible packed somewhere.... if you have to buy one of course it's not very interesting financially...

I guess any 8 bit micro would be plenty enough to make a programmer here... aren't they any available in the UK at all ?! 
You said you have a programmer for PIC chips is that it ? Can't one buy a PIC MCU currently ?! Has it gotten that bad ?!
I mean could be, I don't know... haven't tried to buy an MCU recently....

Honestly if getting something done with a micro of any sort, is that much trouble.... for only 256 memory locations to program, I would just do it by hand !

Just put an 8 bit counter to drive the address pins, that you can increment with a push button (or just put a couple coding wheels). Maybe add LED 7 segment displays to it so you can make sure the address bus is indeed at the intended location, then put a coding wheel or dip-switches on the 4 bit data bus and just flick through the 256 memory locations, shouldn't take all that long to program even by hand 
Maybe add displays to the data bus as well, so you can then read the PROM to make sure it's been programmed properly.

It's a one-off thing, it only needs to let you program THAT particular chip, and do it once, maybe twice if unlucky the first time, but that's about it...

It's not like you were trying to make something fancy that's universal and super convenient and quick to mass program these because you want to flog them on Ebay by the hundreds... you only need to get that one job done, no more,  that's all...

Here's how it goes in my head:

1. Buy a wonky Tek 465B because green wiggles FTW.
2. Ok the PROM is bust.
3. Can I buy a PROM? Yes. Order it.
3. Find the PROM supplier is shit when RM lose the package thus not being able to
4. Do some reverse engineering and find the PROM is one of N different types.
5. Discover they are really expensive to buy and the programming is difficult.
6. Knock up an Arduino programmer in my head based on the datasheet.
7. Discover thanks to the chip shortage that the only arduinos that aren't rip offs are based on the new Logic Green clones. argh.
8. Think back to the last time that you had a general purpose computer that could wiggle bits. Oh BBC.
9. Spend way too much time looking at BBCs on ebay.
10. Accidentally stumble across a 6502 SBC PCB and go down a rabbit hole of the old 6502 SBCs and FORTH via TCJ (tggzzz will know that reference).
11. Wonder why the hell I am doing this.
12. Go for a walk.
13. Come back, unpack the SDS1202X-E and stare at it for a bit and think ahhhhhhhhhh that's why I bought you.
14. Stick the 465B back in the cupboard in the repair queue and wait for a mule to appear.


Also, LOL at the price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225075970394

PROM programming in my head:
1. List and print out the binary address/ content.
2. Throw something together with a DIP-12 switch, ATTiny(that's my 555 lately), LED's, passives and a push-button(big, red, with "EASY!" inscription, if possible  )
3. Program the ATTiny, then the PROM and note on paper the steps
4. Profit!(in a Ferengi way, nonetheless) 

[Zucca]

I am the opposite of Ferengi now... burning money like I will die tomorrow.

[Vince]

....
Apologies for the really crap picture of my HP 5055A Digital Recorder, seems to have escaped detailed photography and is currently in storage.

Probably not worth the wait. 

David

Oh, interesting ! Was worth the wait for me 

I have a growing collection of Nixie tube TE that have a printer output, and I would like to make use of them to log data. Am planning on designing a little gizmo with an 8 bit MCU that I could plug to the back of these TE to read the output, send it to the future lab desktop computer via a serial port, for logging, analysis, plotting graphs etc. Serial port could also be used to configure the gizmo. Gizmo would also have an analog output to drive a chart recorder or XY plotter.

My TE are diverse and use different connectors and probably different control signals as well I imagine, so I would need to study them all to see how I can get the gizmo to work with all of them, and build enough flexibility into it to accommodate future instruments that might have different expectations still.

So... it's cool to see your BCD printers of the day, first time I see one. Datasheet implies that it's designed for not just HP equipment, and that controls signals in the industry / across various manufacturers, are probably not as random / diverse as I feared they might be, which is good and will male the design of my gizmo easier.

I hope you will restore your printer and attach it to some of your TE and post it here. A little YT video maybe... would love that ! 

[xrunner]

And the ugly duckling turns into, well, a much less ugly duckling...  Couldn't quite get ALL the staining out, but some long soaks with Goof Off Gunk and Adhesive Remover Gel followed by some attention with a Mr. Clean magic eraser got the majority of it off.  I didn't want to soak the area by the front panel label too much for fear it would soak under and ruin label, so some of the staining in the nooks and crannies and edges by the label aren't as clean as I'd like them to be, but relative to how it showed up I think it looks pretty good.

Excellent job!

I printed several sets of labels on the same piece of clear laser adhesive paper. After cleaning the plastic with alcohol I taped it down on a cutting mat so it wouldn't move. I carefully aligned the label and applied it. I then removed the panel so I could hold it and use a new razor blade to cut around the outside. I used a new X-Acto blade to cut out the holes.

Honestly, if you didn't know any better you wouldn't notice there was a label on there. Pat if you need any labels let me know I got 4 left.

[bd139]

That looks excellent. Nice job 

Also thanks for noting the existence of clear laser printer labels. I had no idea they existed!

[Cubdriver]

xrunner, that looks great!  Beautifully done.  Mine is in acceptable shape, but I'll keep the label offer in mind should the need arise in the future - thanks!

-Pat

[xrunner]

That looks excellent. Nice job 

Also thanks for noting the existence of clear laser printer labels. I had no idea they existed!

Thanks. I didn't know either but I got them last year from an Ebay seller for a project in another hobby. I wish knew the original supplier name but all I got was a paper mail pack with 10 sheets in it (no manufacturer name). But yea it's a good thing to have in your tool chest, regarding restorations anyway.

I actually ran that sheet through the laser printer more than once and it didn't harm it.

xrunner, that looks great!  Beautifully done.  Mine is in acceptable shape, but I'll keep the label offer in mind should the need arise in the future - thanks!

-Pat

I'll keep them in my hp spares box here. 

[AVGresponding]

I am the opposite of Ferengi now... burning money like I will die tomorrow.

I see...

Oooops!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325270393157




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374177231798




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225071794721




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265778507524




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134172464134




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144647048739




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144647095096




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185501093570

[AVGresponding]

That looks excellent. Nice job 

Also thanks for noting the existence of clear laser printer labels. I had no idea they existed!

Thanks. I didn't know either but I got them last year from an Ebay seller for a project in another hobby. I wish knew the original supplier name but all I got was a paper mail pack with 10 sheets in it (no manufacturer name). But yea it's a good thing to have in your tool chest, regarding restorations anyway.

I actually ran that sheet through the laser printer more than once and it didn't harm it.

xrunner, that looks great!  Beautifully done.  Mine is in acceptable shape, but I'll keep the label offer in mind should the need arise in the future - thanks!

-Pat

I'll keep them in my hp spares box here. 

Looks like you can get them for inkjets too, and they aren't expensive. The durability of the print may be a different matter however... though I suppose you could always put an extra layer of clear over the top to laminate it.

[Robert763]

Just done something really stupid and no it wasn't a TE purchase.
Went into workshop to continue work on a project. I had "borrowed" the IEC lead from the METCAL to power something last night because it was handy. So today I plugged it in and then went to change the bit, It had been off all night so I didn't bother with the silicone pad. Yes, the damm power button was in and the bits get hot very quick. I now have 1" long blisters on my thumb and forefinger and a 1/4" one on the second finger 
Yes, correct first aid and aloe vera gel was applied but I still feel like a right twit and it still hurts...

[BU508A]

Amazon has them. Not cheap, 12 Euro for 10 sheets.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Sheets-Quality-Printable-Adhesive-Stickers/dp/B07945322R

[AVGresponding]

Just done something really stupid and no it wasn't a TE purchase.
Went into workshop to continue work on a project. I had "borrowed" the IEC lead from the METCAL to power something last night because it was handy. So today I plugged it in and then went to change the bit, It had been off all night so I didn't bother with the silicone pad. Yes, the damm power button was in and the bits get hot very quick. I now have 1" long blisters on my thumb and forefinger and a 1/4" one on the second finger 
Yes, correct first aid and aloe vera gel was applied but I still feel like a right twit and it still hurts...

Ouch!

Amazon has them. Not cheap, 12 Euro for 10 sheets.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Sheets-Quality-Printable-Adhesive-Stickers/dp/B07945322R

Ebay has them for half that price. Who knows what the quality is like? They are probably all made in the same factory in China anyway...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323888917994

[Zoli]

Amazon has them. Not cheap, 12 Euro for 10 sheets.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Sheets-Quality-Printable-Adhesive-Stickers/dp/B07945322R

In NA you can get them as stationary supply from Avery; AFAIK, they're present worldwide.

[bd139]

Just done something really stupid and no it wasn't a TE purchase.
Went into workshop to continue work on a project. I had "borrowed" the IEC lead from the METCAL to power something last night because it was handy. So today I plugged it in and then went to change the bit, It had been off all night so I didn't bother with the silicone pad. Yes, the damm power button was in and the bits get hot very quick. I now have 1" long blisters on my thumb and forefinger and a 1/4" one on the second finger 
Yes, correct first aid and aloe vera gel was applied but I still feel like a right twit and it still hurts...

Still have discolouration on my arm from doing something similar about 30 years ago 

Hope you heal up soon

[bd139]

Amazon has them. Not cheap, 12 Euro for 10 sheets.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Sheets-Quality-Printable-Adhesive-Stickers/dp/B07945322R

In NA you can get them as stationary supply from Avery; AFAIK, they're present worldwide.

Thanks all for the links. I’ll buy some Avery ones once I’ve moved and expense ‘em 

[Cerebus]

Have opened a case with the seller of the original part now. Their service and communications are terrible so I’m just claiming it back via eBay now. They’re disinterested in dealing with it or sending another part out and are pushing back asking to give it another couple of days after it has been missing for two weeks now on a RM 24h delivery I paid for. So screw them. User test-equip forget it. Shame because they have a lot of tek and HP parts.

Replying to self - eBay decided in favour of me almost instantly. Refund on the way. Good job as always 

Discovered recently that due to the chip shortage, the availability of shit Arduino clones is pretty bad and the prices have gone through the roof. Considering buying the last decent "on device programmable microcontroller and electric swiss army knife" at the moment, the BBC Micro  . That and the user and printer ports give you a 6522 VIA worth of IO to play with, BASIC, assembly support and decent documentation...

Plenty of STM32F401 Black Pill boards around at around the £5 mark.

[bd139]

Have opened a case with the seller of the original part now. Their service and communications are terrible so I’m just claiming it back via eBay now. They’re disinterested in dealing with it or sending another part out and are pushing back asking to give it another couple of days after it has been missing for two weeks now on a RM 24h delivery I paid for. So screw them. User test-equip forget it. Shame because they have a lot of tek and HP parts.

Replying to self - eBay decided in favour of me almost instantly. Refund on the way. Good job as always 

Discovered recently that due to the chip shortage, the availability of shit Arduino clones is pretty bad and the prices have gone through the roof. Considering buying the last decent "on device programmable microcontroller and electric swiss army knife" at the moment, the BBC Micro  . That and the user and printer ports give you a 6522 VIA worth of IO to play with, BASIC, assembly support and decent documentation...

Plenty of STM32F401 Black Pill boards around at around the £5 mark.

Yeah but I’m not inclined to punch myself in the balls arguing with the tool chain for them 

[Cerebus]

There is 3 phase in the street but not in the house. If I could get an extension lead from two neigbours I'd be set though 
EV's and non-gas heating is driving  three phase supplies for some new build housing though.

You might need quite long extensions, from what I can make out (from observing single phase power failures) the phases down my street change about every six houses.

From observing the telephone poles, in my road they change every house, and every house could easily tap all three phases.

Yes, but you're in country bumpkin territory whereas in civilisation those phases are buried under tarmac, concrete, and the like. 

[m k]

That looks excellent. Nice job 

Also thanks for noting the existence of clear laser printer labels. I had no idea they existed!

Thanks. I didn't know either but I got them last year from an Ebay seller for a project in another hobby. I wish knew the original supplier name but all I got was a paper mail pack with 10 sheets in it (no manufacturer name). But yea it's a good thing to have in your tool chest, regarding restorations anyway.

I actually ran that sheet through the laser printer more than once and it didn't harm it.

xrunner, that looks great!  Beautifully done.  Mine is in acceptable shape, but I'll keep the label offer in mind should the need arise in the future - thanks!

-Pat

I'll keep them in my hp spares box here. 

Looks like you can get them for inkjets too, and they aren't expensive. The durability of the print may be a different matter however... though I suppose you could always put an extra layer of clear over the top to laminate it.

Or do a mirror image and add adhesive on top of it.

[m k]

Just done something really stupid and no it wasn't a TE purchase.
Went into workshop to continue work on a project. I had "borrowed" the IEC lead from the METCAL to power something last night because it was handy. So today I plugged it in and then went to change the bit, It had been off all night so I didn't bother with the silicone pad. Yes, the damm power button was in and the bits get hot very quick. I now have 1" long blisters on my thumb and forefinger and a 1/4" one on the second finger 
Yes, correct first aid and aloe vera gel was applied but I still feel like a right twit and it still hurts...

I've used a Pace desoldering iron professionally so I've had a contact with that screw.
Yet never grabbed a falling iron.

It's sort of amazing how long that much hurting sensation remains unknown.

[m k]

Have opened a case with the seller of the original part now. Their service and communications are terrible so I’m just claiming it back via eBay now. They’re disinterested in dealing with it or sending another part out and are pushing back asking to give it another couple of days after it has been missing for two weeks now on a RM 24h delivery I paid for. So screw them. User test-equip forget it. Shame because they have a lot of tek and HP parts.

Replying to self - eBay decided in favour of me almost instantly. Refund on the way. Good job as always 

Discovered recently that due to the chip shortage, the availability of shit Arduino clones is pretty bad and the prices have gone through the roof. Considering buying the last decent "on device programmable microcontroller and electric swiss army knife" at the moment, the BBC Micro  . That and the user and printer ports give you a 6522 VIA worth of IO to play with, BASIC, assembly support and decent documentation...

Plenty of STM32F401 Black Pill boards around at around the £5 mark.

Yeah but I’m not inclined to punch myself in the balls arguing with the tool chain for them 

Can't you just upload self made binaries?

[Cerebus]

Getting solar now has my attention .... if I can get myself motivated to dive in.  Two storey freestanding house with roof orientation and pitch within 2º of ideal for a fixed installation, plus it's a gable roof, so a nice rectangular area available, with only a solar hot water panel to work around.  Afternoon shading from a spectacular Jacaranda in my front yard is a nuisance, but the wife loves that tree.  I can't get too gung-ho about trimming that as there is an absolutely massive gum tree across the road that I can't touch that will also shade things.  Microinverters feel like the appropriate direction, but that's just one of a couple of significant decisions that will require some homework.

I've sure that your friends here could *ahem* find a way to ameliorate the problem. There are a range of solutions available:

• The German solution, where the tree gets accelerated up off to Valhalla by chemical propellants, brisance varying from none to "Oh shit".
• The New York farmboy solution where they discover too late that an over-engined, over-weight vehicle really does only go in straight lines. (Will require assistant to "hold mah beer")
• The mid New York solution where they get accidentally covered in non-breathing, impervious blue paint while re-painting TE cases.
• The English solution, where I talk them to death.

 

[Robert763]

And just because I don't need another 51/2 digit DMM I just had a offer on a Keithley 199 System DMM accepted...
The 199 is a smaller highspeed "brown" Keithley with large LED display.

TE incoming........