Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 18854336 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126125 on: July 12, 2022, 10:43:53 pm »
Depends which V4. The Taunus V4 went from 1.2 to 1.7 litres. The Essex V4 was either 1.7 or 2.0 litres. I've no idea without researching, what might have been fitted to US market Capris.

Considering the shoehorning that Triumph had to do to fit the 2.0 litre straight six into the Spitfire chassis to make the GT6, it's no surprise that only someone of supreme pig-headed stubbornness would attempt to do it with a V6 lump.   :popcorn:



These were the engines where one tops up the fuel and refills the oil tank.

Ending up behind it on the Autobahn is an exercise in blue smoke.

The V6 IIRC was the worst.
Yep, Pops first Mk4 Zepher kept fouling one plug and mechanic suspected it had a broken ring from new.
Pop flicked it after a year IIRC and brought another one that went just fine unit a swift trip 6 5hr trip home with the bro-inlaw/my uncle up it blew a head gasket and that was the last Ford Pop ever owned.

Only a year or 2 later I started with Fords, Cortina Mk1 wagon, Mk3 sedan 1.6 crossflow, Mk3 sedan 2L OHC and last an Escort Mk2 1.6L Sport before I too learnt my lesson and never brought another.  :horse:

Then almost all vehicle production ceased in NZ so rather than EU stuff NZ mainly sourced from Oz and the land of the rising sun. I went to GM/Aussie Holden after the tragic run with Fords and still have a 2002 Commodore we brought new.
GM lost a lot of followers when they closed their 50+ year old Aussie plants only a year or so back when they were already sending an Aussie developed grunter to the US and UK and since then the Mustang has gained a large foothold and munched on GM's lunch.  :palm:
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126126 on: July 12, 2022, 10:44:40 pm »


On a more serious note. As someone who did quite a lot of messing about in boats in his youth, to me that instinctively looks very top heavy. My guess is if you took that out on anything choppier than a millpond, or leant overboard too far, that thing would be upside down in the blink of an eye.  :scared:



Yeah, that's why the wheels flip out a la James Bond's TR7 Lotus British rustbox. Too bad these pontoons don't self-deploy like the TR-7's diving planes; I can't see any way to flip up the wheels and attach them without actually standing in the water to do it. The boat needs to be floating, or up on trailer jacks like in the video.   

EDIT:   I bet they make a point of telling you aboot the oars because you're gonna need them.  :-DD

mnem


Hmmm, I had a totally different perspective as a cyclist.  That thing is huge & heavy.  They actually did mention in the video that it needs the electric assist to climb hills.  I imagine it needs the electric assist just to get moving.  To my mind, there was a distinct lack of detail on battery capacity, bicycle motor power and what the range of that thing is.

I imagine being in the rocky mountains, with 30 km of uphill, the sun is shining on the other side of the mountain, and the next town is in the valley on the other side ... 
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126127 on: July 12, 2022, 11:20:21 pm »
I wouldn’t worry about precision there. They are usually specified to -20% +100%. A 5600uF is fine for the 5000uF

Of course and I realize that. But anal me insists we be as close as possible.  |O :P :-DD

Been there. I’ve untrained myself from that way as it was getting expensive  :-DD

Sounds like the place i worked at, where they had to stop production because they didn't have any 1100 \$\Omega\$ resistors, which were used in a simple CR network with 47uF electros.
They had plenty of 1000 \$\Omega\$ & 1200 \$\Omega\$ ones, though!
I pointed out that the electros were, at best, +or- 20%, but my words fell upon deaf ears!
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126128 on: July 12, 2022, 11:36:10 pm »
Depends which V4. The Taunus V4 went from 1.2 to 1.7 litres. The Essex V4 was either 1.7 or 2.0 litres. I've no idea without researching, what might have been fitted to US market Capris.

Considering the shoehorning that Triumph had to do to fit the 2.0 litre straight six into the Spitfire chassis to make the GT6, it's no surprise that only someone of supreme pig-headed stubbornness would attempt to do it with a V6 lump.   :popcorn:



These were the engines where one tops up the fuel and refills the oil tank.

Ending up behind it on the Autobahn is an exercise in blue smoke.

The V6 IIRC was the worst.
Yep, Pops first Mk4 Zepher kept fouling one plug and mechanic suspected it had a broken ring from new.
Pop flicked it after a year IIRC and brought another one that went just fine unit a swift trip 6 5hr trip home with the bro-inlaw/my uncle up it blew a head gasket and that was the last Ford Pop ever owned.

Only a year or 2 later I started with Fords, Cortina Mk1 wagon, Mk3 sedan 1.6 crossflow, Mk3 sedan 2L OHC and last an Escort Mk2 1.6L Sport before I too learnt my lesson and never brought another.  :horse:

Then almost all vehicle production ceased in NZ so rather than EU stuff NZ mainly sourced from Oz and the land of the rising sun. I went to GM/Aussie Holden after the tragic run with Fords and still have a 2002 Commodore we brought new.
GM lost a lot of followers when they closed their 50+ year old Aussie plants only a year or so back when they were already sending an Aussie developed grunter to the US and UK and since then the Mustang has gained a large foothold and munched on GM's lunch.  :palm:

GM are turds----the megalomaniacs in Detroit just had to micromanage GMH to death!
The only way you will buy a GM car in OZ these days is via an unofficial importer.
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126129 on: July 12, 2022, 11:36:32 pm »
I did try to get by with "cherry bomb" glass-packs cuz quick and easy and tidy; but I knew at the time I was bending the pipes I'd probably have to refit with shorty canister mufflers and I was right. The exhaust note just crackled and popped, while the shorty canister mufflers had a delicious burble at idle that turned into a nice throaty rumble under load that never popped or blatted. I was quite pleased with myself on that job.

mnem
*toddles off to do something productive for a change*

I do like a smooth exhaust note, and hate the buzz and crackle.
But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger. :D




I do still miss that car.. (fkn boosted 4-cyl rice burners!)

I've had a lot of fun in huffed and squirted rice-rockets... but every last one of 'em sounded like a pissed off bumblebee. ;)

mnem
Until you hit the fast-gas... then they sound like a pissed-off bumblebee on crack. :-DD

Even though I drive a rice burner (stock exhaust thank you very much) those with most custom exhausts do sound like an angry bumblebee. There is nothing like the sound of a V-8....especially ones cammed out so they spit and rumble at idle.

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126130 on: July 13, 2022, 12:23:52 am »
https://youtu.be/bHpCEUSWt7Q
On a more serious note. As someone who did quite a lot of messing about in boats in his youth, to me that instinctively looks very top heavy. My guess is if you took that out on anything choppier than a millpond, or leant overboard too far, that thing would be upside down in the blink of an eye.  :scared:
   Yeah, that's why the wheels flip out a la James Bond's TR7 Lotus British rustbox. Too bad these pontoons don't self-deploy like the TR-7's diving planes; I can't see any way to flip up the wheels and attach them without actually standing in the water to do it. The boat needs to be floating, or up on trailer jacks like in the video.   

EDIT:   I bet they make a point of telling you aboot the oars because you're gonna need them.  :-DD

mnem
https://youtu.be/yeBqf6bYZak

Hmmm, I had a totally different perspective as a cyclist.  That thing is huge & heavy.  They actually did mention in the video that it needs the electric assist to climb hills.  I imagine it needs the electric assist just to get moving.  To my mind, there was a distinct lack of detail on battery capacity, bicycle motor power and what the range of that thing is.

I imagine being in the rocky mountains, with 30 km of uphill, the sun is shining on the other side of the mountain, and the next town is in the valley on the other side ... 

Yeah, that was what I was alluding to with my "you're gonna need the oars..." comment... as in the duty cycle on that trolling motor will be aboot 3% due to the stoopit thing using a drill battery for power. ;)

mnem
*eBike-ily*
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 12:26:42 am by mnementh »
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126131 on: July 13, 2022, 12:32:08 am »

But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger. :D

The current tractor has a 5cyl TDi engine, and the turbo whine when it starts to make more power at a steady rpm (cruise control, meet uphill) is very, very addictive.

The Bimmer has a turbo but you wouldn't know it from the noise - there isn't any. In fact there's precious little engine noise at all, anything short of full throttle and all you hear is a gentle rumble from the tyres and suspension. All very civilised. Oddly I appreciate the quiet, despite spending the last 22 years driving a mid-engined car with the intakes and valve gear separated from my head by 10 inches and one thin steel engine access cover that with some carpet on it is basically the parcel shelf inside the cabin.

I am not a fan of turbo fitted engines in general, I've driven quite a few over the years and the laggy throttle response at low RPMs makes me very uncomfortable - if I'm going to have intake boosting give me a supercharger any day. Thankfully there's some clever cooperation goes on between the electric and petrol engines in the Bimmer with the electric motor filling in any gaps left by the turbo, and the only time you notice any turbo lag is on standing starts with hard acceleration. If I'd know it had a turbo before I'd driven it I'd have probably given it a miss based on past experience.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126132 on: July 13, 2022, 12:57:20 am »
Depends which V4. The Taunus V4 went from 1.2 to 1.7 litres. The Essex V4 was either 1.7 or 2.0 litres. I've no idea without researching, what might have been fitted to US market Capris.

Considering the shoehorning that Triumph had to do to fit the 2.0 litre straight six into the Spitfire chassis to make the GT6, it's no surprise that only someone of supreme pig-headed stubbornness would attempt to do it with a V6 lump.   :popcorn:



These were the engines where one tops up the fuel and refills the oil tank.

Ending up behind it on the Autobahn is an exercise in blue smoke.

The V6 IIRC was the worst.
Yep, Pops first Mk4 Zepher kept fouling one plug and mechanic suspected it had a broken ring from new.
Pop flicked it after a year IIRC and brought another one that went just fine unit a swift trip 6 5hr trip home with the bro-inlaw/my uncle up it blew a head gasket and that was the last Ford Pop ever owned.

Only a year or 2 later I started with Fords, Cortina Mk1 wagon, Mk3 sedan 1.6 crossflow, Mk3 sedan 2L OHC and last an Escort Mk2 1.6L Sport before I too learnt my lesson and never brought another.  :horse:

Then almost all vehicle production ceased in NZ so rather than EU stuff NZ mainly sourced from Oz and the land of the rising sun. I went to GM/Aussie Holden after the tragic run with Fords and still have a 2002 Commodore we brought new.
GM lost a lot of followers when they closed their 50+ year old Aussie plants only a year or so back when they were already sending an Aussie developed grunter to the US and UK and since then the Mustang has gained a large foothold and munched on GM's lunch.  :palm:

GM are turds----the megalomaniacs in Detroit just had to micromanage GMH to death!
The only way you will buy a GM car in OZ these days is via an unofficial importer.
Yep, we were just as shocked as you Aussies when the Holden closedown was announced.
Like Oz, NZ was full of Holdens everywhere you looked and now we're seeing them gradually disappear from the roads to be replaced mainly with rice burners of one sort or another.

Next I see gubbermints targeting diesels as they have in Europe but with the population densities of most of Oz and NZ there's little reason for it other than to appease the greenies that are so driven by the principles of the Paris accord they can't even read or understand the fine print !  :horse:
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126133 on: July 13, 2022, 01:07:28 am »
Question time.

Anyone know of a way I can characterise a Tek 067-0625-00 Peak-to-Peak detector up to 1GHz or so, without a calibrated source or power meter?
I made my own a while back, and I need to characterise it so I can use it to calibrate and adjust my SG503 and SG504 and SG5030, etc.

Or, does anyone have the means to do this for me if I send you the thing to run it through its paces and send back at my expense? I have a spare enclosure and PCB in it if you can help out... :)
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126134 on: July 13, 2022, 01:30:52 am »
Today I bought about 40KWh LiFePO4 from China and 20KVA inverters from Arizona.

It feels strange.
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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126135 on: July 13, 2022, 02:25:27 am »
Welcome to the green side. We have cookies.

mnem
which may or may not be cannabis-enhanced.  >:D
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126136 on: July 13, 2022, 02:39:30 am »
Today I bought about 40KWh LiFePO4 from China and 20KVA inverters from Arizona.

It feels strange.
Winston ?
http://en.winston-battery.com/?cnxdc/
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Offline 25 CPS

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126137 on: July 13, 2022, 03:38:40 am »
Here is one for our Spara from The Signal Noise Path:


That was interesting.  I think I saw the same dead U1253B on eBay when I was looking at prices to see if the used one on Facebook Marketplace (still there...) was reasonable.  Also interesting is that the replacement display is a third party kit.  I could've sworn I saw somewhere that Keysight sold OEM displays as a replaceable part, particularly since that is a current product; I'll have to check their website later.  Another interesting thing is that it's the U1253A/B that get all the attention.  I haven't seen much said about the U1273A/AX or the insulation testers that also had OLED displays.  It's the insulation tester that worries me long term.  Those were recently discontinued and the seven year support period after the discontinuation date is starting to tick down.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126138 on: July 13, 2022, 04:26:03 am »
All it takes is one fucker with a hedge trimmer to ruin your day. Doesn't matter where you live.
Not with a 250MB/s P-P wireless connection and your ISP's UPS in the house keeping your connection up !  ;D

The Pop part of Mom& Pop was here today for a coffee and checked our connection speed ....as just reported and also dropped off a new 3 blade 24V wind gen to go up the hill on our backhaul site as this winter the PV panels have struggled to keep the batteries full which has pissed us off some needing to keep an eye on the bloody things every time we have a session of dull weather......then a few days back it became obvious why, apparently at high altitudes the southern hemisphere still has a lot of fine ash aloft from the big Tonga eruption a few months back.

Anyways, one of these suckers:
http://www.primuswindpower.com/wind-power-products/air-30-turbine-2/
Wonder how long it will last 200m ABSL where there are unrestricted views between Aussie and Chile....translation = blows like a real SOB !
Pics to follow when installed.

In that case, all it takes is a stray cow to scratch it's ass on the pole  :-DD
:)
The wind gen site is already up and running with an 8' galv pipe mast bolted to one of the posts on the post and rail around the control cabinet and 6M timber pole but with a vertical helical POS generator that's only good for landfill !

That helical thing has been a real disappointment so it must go and be replaced with something designed in the US of A that might actually work !  :rant:
And so over the last couple of days it was done.  :phew:
Yesterday (Monday) in readiness for the real installation work, the useless helical turbine, its 3 phase controller and wiring was removed and new 2 core tinned marine wiring installed and ~600mm extension to the 1.5" galv pipe mast so to make today's efforts simpler. The weather was closing in and we did most of this in light rain but with barely a breeze, thank heavens !  :phew:
This thing:
Air X Marine wind turbine with 110mph survivability....and it will need it !
http://www.primuswindpower.com/files/7816/0709/3270/PWP_Manual_-_NOV_2020_-_3-CMLT-2020.pdf

The 3 carbon fiber blades are as sharp as one thing hence the need to add an extension to the pole to prevent it from scalping us anytime we needed to work on any part of the installation.
Now blowing 20+kph tonight and already we can see the batteries benefitting from charging after the sun has long gone.
Pop of the Mom&Pop ISP is well pleased as we can both see 25.16V at the batteries from the solar logging whereas just after dark 3hrs back it was 24.42V.
In a few days I'll grab a screenshot of the latest logging which should clearly demonstrate the challenges we've had with keeping this installation fully charged this winter.

Anyways, you've probably seen pics in previous postings so I won't bore you with old ones, just one of the new turbine and a bonus one of the indicator LED's on the radio of the 900mm 11 GHz dish with 900W of solar panels in the background.

Next upgrade is to the DC powered POE 1GB/s switch, of which the current 6 port one is full so no spare ports for local management without unplugging something and a local POE camera is planned to be added.
Study of the attached solar logging demonstrates how the new wind turbine has saved our bacon in the last week or so as 10 days back is last when batteries were fully charged where it shows 41 mins of Float charge and finally today we are again at a Float charge state however the W/hrs of solar charge logging tells the full story of what's going on.

This installation uses ~1600 W/hrs of solar energy/day which of course for 10 days should total ~16000W/hrs when instead only 10900W/hrs of solar has been injected into the batteries with wind doing the rest and keeping the installation up and running.  :phew:
The odd day also shows higher than normal minimums that are a result of the wind turbine contributing more than the overnight quiescent drain.

The wind turbine for site #2 has also arrived and we'll do that install when we get a break in the inclement weather.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126139 on: July 13, 2022, 05:31:39 am »
Here is one for our Spara from The Signal Noise Path:


That was interesting.  I think I saw the same dead U1253B on eBay when I was looking at prices to see if the used one on Facebook Marketplace (still there...) was reasonable.  Also interesting is that the replacement display is a third party kit.  I could've sworn I saw somewhere that Keysight sold OEM displays as a replaceable part, particularly since that is a current product; I'll have to check their website later.  Another interesting thing is that it's the U1253A/B that get all the attention.  I haven't seen much said about the U1273A/AX or the insulation testers that also had OLED displays.  It's the insulation tester that worries me long term.  Those were recently discontinued and the seven year support period after the discontinuation date is starting to tick down.

One can get those modules here for example (NAWTS):

https://www.lcdandmore.de/c/display-module

https://lcdstore.de/epages/17406888.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/17406888/Categories/Grafikmodul/GrafikOLEDModule
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126140 on: July 13, 2022, 07:45:24 am »

But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger. :D

The current tractor has a 5cyl TDi engine, and the turbo whine when it starts to make more power at a steady rpm (cruise control, meet uphill) is very, very addictive.

The Bimmer has a turbo but you wouldn't know it from the noise - there isn't any. In fact there's precious little engine noise at all, anything short of full throttle and all you hear is a gentle rumble from the tyres and suspension. All very civilised. Oddly I appreciate the quiet, despite spending the last 22 years driving a mid-engined car with the intakes and valve gear separated from my head by 10 inches and one thin steel engine access cover that with some carpet on it is basically the parcel shelf inside the cabin.

I am not a fan of turbo fitted engines in general, I've driven quite a few over the years and the laggy throttle response at low RPMs makes me very uncomfortable - if I'm going to have intake boosting give me a supercharger any day. Thankfully there's some clever cooperation goes on between the electric and petrol engines in the Bimmer with the electric motor filling in any gaps left by the turbo, and the only time you notice any turbo lag is on standing starts with hard acceleration. If I'd know it had a turbo before I'd driven it I'd have probably given it a miss based on past experience.
Hmm, that's odd, because my car also has a turbo and I can honestly say that I have not noticed any lag in it cutting in at all.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126141 on: July 13, 2022, 08:04:55 am »
I did try to get by with "cherry bomb" glass-packs cuz quick and easy and tidy; but I knew at the time I was bending the pipes I'd probably have to refit with shorty canister mufflers and I was right. The exhaust note just crackled and popped, while the shorty canister mufflers had a delicious burble at idle that turned into a nice throaty rumble under load that never popped or blatted. I was quite pleased with myself on that job.

mnem
*toddles off to do something productive for a change*

I do like a smooth exhaust note, and hate the buzz and crackle.
But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger. :D




I do still miss that car.. (fkn boosted 4-cyl rice burners!)

I've had a lot of fun in huffed and squirted rice-rockets... but every last one of 'em sounded like a pissed off bumblebee. ;)

mnem
Until you hit the fast-gas... then they sound like a pissed-off bumblebee on crack. :-DD

Even though I drive a rice burner (stock exhaust thank you very much) those with most custom exhausts do sound like an angry bumblebee. There is nothing like the sound of a V-8....especially ones cammed out so they spit and rumble at idle.


No no, real men don't need to have a thumbing great V8 and all that racket that goes with them, you just need a decent Euro small engine designed with plenty of HP, decent sound muffling and reduce all that stupid gas guzzling to something more sensible for the sake of the planet and others. Chances are that a run, a smaller more sensible sized engined car will be just as quick or maybe quicker overall as your gas guzzler will need frequent fuel stops and the sensible car will be whizzing past the fuel pumps while the other will be sat there pouring gallon after of gallon of fuel down its neck and into the tank, increasing its weight again  :palm: :palm:
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126142 on: July 13, 2022, 08:06:59 am »
Yep. Rocking the 0.99L 3 cyl here  :-DD

Sounds like a V8 if you stick kangaroo juice in it.
 
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126143 on: July 13, 2022, 08:16:44 am »
Today I bought about 40KWh LiFePO4 from China and 20KVA inverters from Arizona.

It feels strange.

One sauna day around one Christmas we used 108 kWh.

BTW,
it's not the heating method, it's air.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126144 on: July 13, 2022, 08:17:12 am »
Strewth, its bloody 33oC here in my lab, I'm giving up and going downstairs to grab a long cold drink of milk, switch the TV on and watch some Wheeler Dealers or something while sitting in the direct line of a fan.

I hope it's a lot cooler for this Friday, I'm going to RAF Fairford for the RIAT air show and watch a limited flying display and the remaining arriving aircraft from all over the world. I'm not looking forward to sitting out in this heat all day-long  :--

Take a (folding) bike to get from one end of the runway to the other!
It was already at 30C in my lab at 8:00am this morning  :palm: :wtf:

Take a folding bike to get from one end of the runway to the other, why would anyone want to do that when they're also going to be carrying 2 camera bags, chairs, possibly a tripod and a cool box for drinks and lunch, when there is perfectly good regular shuttle bus service doing that journey and its supposed to be free. :-//
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126145 on: July 13, 2022, 08:20:58 am »
Well the intermittent display fault has returned to my HP 54615B, trouble is after the second power up, the Hsync/Cal signals don't stay borked for long enough, to see if they are failing at the same time as the display, the signals are correct before the CRT fully warms up and the picture appears.  |O

Hsync & cal signals measured, before they quickly corrected themselves to 19.72kHz (Hsync) & 1.2kHz (probe cal).


I can't find the "any" key.  :-//


David

Is there warmer than usual?

Our freezer has removable shelves.
Pretty optimal for cooling bigger things.

80Mhz clock and 1/4 slower sync.
How is this clock generated?

A far fetched.
Sort of direct lines out of the machine, says xDevs 54600A schematics.
Pages 22-23/125 there have +5VF_Core, its buddy +5VF_Pad is clipped but component numbers are still present.
Can you show your version of them some cold spray?

I guess it was a little bit warmer when I acquired it (Jan 2021), it hasn't been used much due to this fault, when last used in December, it required about an hour warm up time, before the horizontal display would lock.

Temperature was around 18°C to 23° (depending which crap thermometer I look at) in the workshop when I checked over the weekend. I've no freeze spray ATM and our freezer sleeves are the plumbing, i.e non removable unless you want to destroy it.

Both the HP 54600A & 54654N use a custom IC (Foxy for 54600A & Jackal for 54654N) to provide the H & V Sync signals and the probe cal signal is divided down from the H-Sync by a 74393, the custom IC has a 40MHz clock input, could check this in the future.



I have to thank whoever posted the 54654N CLIP, as the part # of the Jackal IC is the same one used in my 54615B, around it is the 40MHz oscillator & 74393 IC.



David

Dang, I meant fridge, our freezer has drawers and compressor is eating some bottom area.
But freezer would be better, then you can store its stuff into the fridge and "save" energy.

And dang, oscillator idea out of the window.
Single 40MHz crystal is not very easily going to output 30MHz.
54600A schematics has that same thing but I missed it.
The picture seems to be pretty same, Foxy clock line continues to 74F32 OR gate, is it there also?
The edge part is clipped again but seems that the gate is between the crystal and a clock pin.
A last straw maybe.
Or maybe not, unexpected wait state can also do something like that but from where I have no idea.

I have only that 54600A schematics from xDevs, can't find anything else, different names yes but contents no.
(here search of 546 clip had one result, now two)
There I saw a 10MHz crystal with differential drivers of around 1GHz speed and finally outputting 80MHz to Aspen.
That decoration can more easily output only 3/4 freq. but being a source for H-sync of other chip with its own clock is a bit far, if not that unexpected wait state.

Foxy chip seems to be more in control with timings but maybe Jackal still has an easy access to other clock output to check how its freq. is doing when H-sync is wrong.

If you can see that slow sync picture can you figure out if some other parts are also slow?
Like some calculations or widths being wrong.

Maybe your 18-23 temps were just some air flow and indicating that somewhere is a cooler spot.
Big mass spray cooling can be disturbing, you never really know how it really is.
Cool concrete floor and over night storage on it may also be enough.
Then obviously testing without moving it.
And afterwards learning that your delicate test setup was partially disconnected, not much, just a ground here or there.

Old PC CGA lowres H-sync was 15.7kHz, maybe that kind of a monitor accepts a bit too slow stuff.
I also remember a VHS copy protection system where sync was intentionally out of sync.
Since recording needed precise timing it didn't like that out of sync stuff but TV wasn't picky, and had no problems.
So old video monitor can also be almost ready made picture maker but finding its separated sync signals can be less easy.
And then it probably fails when H-sync is correcting its act.

Maybe, finally, easiest is to do a general purpose MCU controlled double frame buffer thingy that can read anything it can see and transform it to what ever is needed.
CGA to VGA converters are generally accepting 14.5kHz H-sync but auto scan sync polarities are hazy and none seem to accept old MDA or HGC frequencies.

See the Agilent 54645N CLIP on archive.org, posted by BD139 a few weeks back, when Vince bought his HP MSO, be warned it is a mass of jumbled up pages.

Actually you're pretty good with the 54645 scope on service information. There are two documents of interest:

Firstly the user and service manual (module level) is here:

https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2054645A,%2054645D%20User%20&%20Service.pdf

Now here's the good one, the CLIP (component level information package) is here. All 300Mb of it  :-+

https://archive.org/details/HP54645NCLIPImgs

As mentioned in the thread I bounced the parts for reasonable money on their own. Yours is profitable on that front even if it's knackered. In the end I sold the good plastics, the knobs, motherboard (£25 even though it was broken), display assemly and power supply separately and made 2.5x what I paid for it  :-//

If it works the only maintenance risk is the Dallas RAM module and the RIFAs in the power supply board really. They are top notch bits of engineering.

David

The rest of the Jackal section from the CLIP images attached below, 40MHz clock is the standalone oscillator module, Dot-CLK seems to be an output going to the COMBO-PAL (prog array logic) IC shown in the thumbnails above.

And yes if I adjusted the appropriate hold control on the CRT board, I could get it to slow the horizontal roll enough to see the picture, but it was very unstable and would quickly drift back to a fast roll. Picture taken in January last year.


David

Bent picture is very good, exactly what is expected.

Foxy, after those clocks, seems to be mainly a memory controller.
So not very much to do with other timings.
Foxy Dot_clock goes to 74LS194 and is clocking out brightness values.

Bent grid is shaped exactly how wrong speed of line should be, all dots are equally slowed with the H-sync.
Since H-sync is just a pulse it defines only a starting point, monitor does the rest.
Monitor is deflecting just like it is and despite the data, it's data who's job is to be in sync.
If Dot_clock is what it is intended to be then dots are also positioned accordingly, so grid's dot square would still be square.

So Dot_clock is equally slowed and reason seems to be overall clocking of the chip.
COMBO_PAL has also that LvRAS as CLK1, together they can do that 3:4 timing but HS is elsewhere.
Dot_clock is also looping pixels through U97 linebuffer for PAL display.
Separated H-sync error is not very probable.

How pure crystal that 40MHz clock is?
Foxy clock has that OR gate but no clock chip enable pin and Jackal is the opposite.
Clock chip's manual say it can be as slow as 26MHz, how is it done.
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126146 on: July 13, 2022, 08:21:54 am »
Strewth, its bloody 33oC here in my lab, I'm giving up and going downstairs to grab a long cold drink of milk, switch the TV on and watch some Wheeler Dealers or something while sitting in the direct line of a fan.

I hope it's a lot cooler for this Friday, I'm going to RAF Fairford for the RIAT air show and watch a limited flying display and the remaining arriving aircraft from all over the world. I'm not looking forward to sitting out in this heat all day-long  :--

Take a (folding) bike to get from one end of the runway to the other!
It was already at 30C in my lab at 8:00am this morning  :palm: :wtf:

Take a folding bike to get from one end of the runway to the other, why would anyone want to do that when they're also going to be carrying 2 camera bags, chairs, possibly a tripod and a cool box for drinks and lunch, when there is perfectly good regular shuttle bus service doing that journey and its supposed to be free. :-//

Well, that's changed since I was last there, a long time ago.

With all that clobber, I agree a bike wouldn't be practical. Better take a golf buggy or golf caddie.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126147 on: July 13, 2022, 08:28:12 am »
Yep. Rocking the 0.99L 3 cyl here  :-DD

Sounds like a V8 if you stick kangaroo juice in it.
Mines just a sensible 2 litre 4 cylinder, 125kW, producing 350Nm torque @1750 RPM with a 0-62mph of 8.6 seconds and frequently returns around 56 to 58 mpg on a run, that all the engine and power you need, especially on our roads.
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126148 on: July 13, 2022, 08:36:29 am »
I have a hybrid minivan, but it's TRD and has a sweet set of rims. :-DD
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #126149 on: July 13, 2022, 08:37:04 am »

No no, real men don't need to have a thumbing great V8 and all that racket that goes with them, you just need a decent Euro small engine designed with plenty of HP, decent sound muffling and reduce all that stupid gas guzzling to something more sensible for the sake of the planet and others. Chances are that a run, a smaller more sensible sized engined car will be just as quick or maybe quicker overall as your gas guzzler will need frequent fuel stops and the sensible car will be whizzing past the fuel pumps while the other will be sat there pouring gallon after of gallon of fuel down its neck and into the tank, increasing its weight again  :palm: :palm:

Careful, your jealousy is showing through.  :P :-DD
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