Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[vk6zgo]

Oh that V4 dog, yep 
It was a 2/3rds version of the 3l V6 which many also thought were a puss bucket but they went good with the std twin throat Webber and the 3l Capri is still a sought after model as they were quite a rocket ship in their day.

Pop had a Mk4 Zepher with the 3l innit and probably the first set of wheels I did the ton in way the fuck back in the 70’s. 

From what you're saying, you guys got the Essex V4s and V6s. They're a bit different in design from the Taunus/Cologne units, not just in displacement, mostly in the timing gear and some other ancillaries (literally a gear on the Essex).

AFAIK the V4's we got in NZ were 2 and 3L and same bore/stoke etc.
Early Mk4 Zephers had a 2.5L V6 and the Zodiac version the 3L and twin throat Weber but the last of them were all 3L and twin throats like the one Pop had.
The V4's were in the Mk1 Transhit vans too but they were dumped when the Mk2 was released and the little better 2L OHC fitted but with a single throat carbie. 

A buddy after suffering 100k miles with the 2L OHC in his Transhit Mk2 hauled it and all its running gear out and fitted a new 302W crate motor and IIRC C4 BW auto and customed Ford 9" running on LPG and the darn thing lasted him another 20 yrs with the 302W just ticking away with no idea it was ever working.
Although he never flogged it, it earned its keep and pulled like a 4th former....I know as I did several 6hr each way trips away with him on hunting and fishing trips.
IIRC he sold it soon after it's only major repair....a steering box at half a million KM. 

Funny as hell actually, a Transit was his first work hack and now some 40 yrs on a modern TD Transit is his new work hack with only Hiace vans of one model or another filling the in between years.

The old Transit vans were godawful things.

Our work Hi Ace was in for a major service, at our own "in house" auto section, & we were loaned a Transit with the Falcon inline six.
Unfortunately, Ford Australia, in their wisdom, neglected to change the rear axle ratio, & at anything over about 80kmh, the poor old six was screaming.
It had stupendous torque at lower speeds, though --probably good for pulling stumps!

This was not long after Telecom Aust & Australia Post had separated into two different entities, so it was more likely bought for suburban bulk letter/parcel delivery.
For our use, which was fast service runs to country sites, it was a slug!

HiAces, even though a bit underpowered, were overall, the best fit for the job.

Falcon Vans, although well suited for the road trips were hard to load, & had lousy rear visibility.
Holden station wagons solved the visibility problem but still had access problems, & less capacity.

[AVGresponding]

Just had to take the first steps towards a return on a bench grinder from an ebay liquidation reseller.

Warped wheels, bent shaft, you can bet your arse I ain't running it up to 3krpm to see what happens!

[mnementh]

Yeah; guy who bought it when I got sick of it wanted the motor and trans for some little French shoebox that looked like a Opel Manta. Cologne V6 was a fucking bullet-proof mule of a motor though; on the Spitfire I machined ~40mm of the divider in the stock intake out and made a plate to fit the Ford 500 2bbl... little bastard ran like hell! Would do wheelstands in 1st & 2nd, no lie! 

mnem
 

Yours have the Hex rod dizzy and oil pump drive ?

Yup, and sheared off at the pump like they did. Got the motor & 5-speed out of one of the Capri-body Mustangs for $100; as soon as I saw the distributor not turning I knew what was wrong widdit. 

Considering the shoehorning that Triumph had to do to fit the 2.0 litre straight six into the Spitfire chassis to make the GT6, it's no surprise that only someone of supreme pig-headed stubbornness would attempt to do it with a V6 lump.   

Guilty as charged.

Made tube headers for that one as well; shoehorning the motor/trans was a fair bit of surgery though. About 2 feet of the front Y in the frame... where the rolled steel overlaps to form ~a 2" lip... I had to cut the lip flush and lap weld 1" flat stock to make room for the Mustang tranny. Also had to replace the stock old-school Ford starter with a custom gear-reduction model from a later model (escort or somesuch) with a custom machined mounting flange tig-welded to it. About 10 years later, I saw aftermarket starters being offered in SUMMIT Racing to do the same thing for T-Bucket builds.  But it was worth the assache; everything fit under the stock hood with a nice low-profile 14" air cleaner. Also, the swap actually shaved over 100 lbs off the build; iron-everything 4-cyl & trans vs aluminum heads/intake & aluminum bell/trans with the V6.

    

I also made the rear half of the exhaust so everything tucked up inside the body correctly like the classic Corvettes of the day, rather than the fucking hideous shite abortion "Monza exhaust" that everybody seemed to think was so awesome because "straight pipes huh-hurrrr..."

I did try to get by with "cherry bomb" glass-packs cuz quick and easy and tidy; but I knew at the time I was bending the pipes I'd probably have to refit with shorty canister mufflers and I was right. The exhaust note just crackled and popped, while the shorty canister mufflers had a delicious burble at idle that turned into a nice throaty rumble under load that never popped or blatted. I was quite pleased with myself on that job.

mnem
*toddles off to do something productive for a change*

[bd139]

Just had to take the first steps towards a return on a bench grinder from an ebay liquidation reseller.

Warped wheels, bent shaft, you can bet your arse I ain't running it up to 3krpm to see what happens!

Hopefully they will test it before shipping again 

May have bought another bloody Z mount lens 

[TERRA Operative]

I did try to get by with "cherry bomb" glass-packs cuz quick and easy and tidy; but I knew at the time I was bending the pipes I'd probably have to refit with shorty canister mufflers and I was right. The exhaust note just crackled and popped, while the shorty canister mufflers had a delicious burble at idle that turned into a nice throaty rumble under load that never popped or blatted. I was quite pleased with myself on that job.

mnem
*toddles off to do something productive for a change*

I do like a smooth exhaust note, and hate the buzz and crackle.
But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger.




I do still miss that car.. (fkn boosted 4-cyl rice burners!)

[tggzzz]

I personally haven't seen a single legal e-scooter, but I've seen a lot of illegal ones being ridden by idiots with no road sense or sense of self preservation.

With legal ones there is the added "oh that looks fun and only costs a couple of quid" and "I'll just hop on one of those things" and "it is too hot (=> my brain is too befuddled) to walk".

Fun? I could have screamed.

[AVGresponding]

But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger.

Oh really?



(from back when F1 was still good)



and also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwwKwMPhbVw&ab_channel=UncleTony%27sGarage

EDIT: Also has one of the best trolls I've ever heard, when UT asks the old codger who owns the car, "What cam is that?", and the old dude answers "Metal".

[TERRA Operative]

Well, that's just cheating...

[tggzzz]

<snip>
The police just seem to be ignoring them, I haven't seen a single one pulled over by the police yet in the same period since they first appeared I've seen a lot of pulls that were quite obviously for "driving a vehicle with several young and black occupants".

Are you trying to imply that the met is racist  Tsk Tsk 

Nothing changes; only 40 years young... PC Savage arrests the same man repeatedly for, e.g., "possession of curly black hair and thick lips", yet "I can't say I've ever noticed whether he is coloured"

[m k]

Well the intermittent display fault has returned to my HP 54615B, trouble is after the second power up, the Hsync/Cal signals don't stay borked for long enough, to see if they are failing at the same time as the display, the signals are correct before the CRT fully warms up and the picture appears. 

Hsync & cal signals measured, before they quickly corrected themselves to 19.72kHz (Hsync) & 1.2kHz (probe cal).


I can't find the "any" key. 


David

Is there warmer than usual?

Our freezer has removable shelves.
Pretty optimal for cooling bigger things.

80Mhz clock and 1/4 slower sync.
How is this clock generated?

A far fetched.
Sort of direct lines out of the machine, says xDevs 54600A schematics.
Pages 22-23/125 there have +5VF_Core, its buddy +5VF_Pad is clipped but component numbers are still present.
Can you show your version of them some cold spray?

I guess it was a little bit warmer when I acquired it (Jan 2021), it hasn't been used much due to this fault, when last used in December, it required about an hour warm up time, before the horizontal display would lock.

Temperature was around 18°C to 23° (depending which crap thermometer I look at) in the workshop when I checked over the weekend. I've no freeze spray ATM and our freezer sleeves are the plumbing, i.e non removable unless you want to destroy it.

Both the HP 54600A & 54654N use a custom IC (Foxy for 54600A & Jackal for 54654N) to provide the H & V Sync signals and the probe cal signal is divided down from the H-Sync by a 74393, the custom IC has a 40MHz clock input, could check this in the future.





I have to thank whoever posted the 54654N CLIP, as the part # of the Jackal IC is the same one used in my 54615B, around it is the 40MHz oscillator & 74393 IC.



David

Dang, I meant fridge, our freezer has drawers and compressor is eating some bottom area.
But freezer would be better, then you can store its stuff into the fridge and "save" energy.

And dang, oscillator idea out of the window.
Single 40MHz crystal is not very easily going to output 30MHz.
54600A schematics has that same thing but I missed it.
The picture seems to be pretty same, Foxy clock line continues to 74F32 OR gate, is it there also?
The edge part is clipped again but seems that the gate is between the crystal and a clock pin.
A last straw maybe.
Or maybe not, unexpected wait state can also do something like that but from where I have no idea.

I have only that 54600A schematics from xDevs, can't find anything else, different names yes but contents no.
(here search of 546 clip had one result, now two)
There I saw a 10MHz crystal with differential drivers of around 1GHz speed and finally outputting 80MHz to Aspen.
That decoration can more easily output only 3/4 freq. but being a source for H-sync of other chip with its own clock is a bit far, if not that unexpected wait state.

Foxy chip seems to be more in control with timings but maybe Jackal still has an easy access to other clock output to check how its freq. is doing when H-sync is wrong.

If you can see that slow sync picture can you figure out if some other parts are also slow?
Like some calculations or widths being wrong.

Maybe your 18-23 temps were just some air flow and indicating that somewhere is a cooler spot.
Big mass spray cooling can be disturbing, you never really know how it really is.
Cool concrete floor and over night storage on it may also be enough.
Then obviously testing without moving it.
And afterwards learning that your delicate test setup was partially disconnected, not much, just a ground here or there.

Old PC CGA lowres H-sync was 15.7kHz, maybe that kind of a monitor accepts a bit too slow stuff.
I also remember a VHS copy protection system where sync was intentionally out of sync.
Since recording needed precise timing it didn't like that out of sync stuff but TV wasn't picky, and had no problems.
So old video monitor can also be almost ready made picture maker but finding its separated sync signals can be less easy.
And then it probably fails when H-sync is correcting its act.

Maybe, finally, easiest is to do a general purpose MCU controlled double frame buffer thingy that can read anything it can see and transform it to what ever is needed.
CGA to VGA converters are generally accepting 14.5kHz H-sync but auto scan sync polarities are hazy and none seem to accept old MDA or HGC frequencies.

[Specmaster]

Well the intermittent display fault has returned to my HP 54615B, trouble is after the second power up, the Hsync/Cal signals don't stay borked for long enough, to see if they are failing at the same time as the display, the signals are correct before the CRT fully warms up and the picture appears. 

Hsync & cal signals measured, before they quickly corrected themselves to 19.72kHz (Hsync) & 1.2kHz (probe cal).


I can't find the "any" key. 


David

Is there warmer than usual?

Our freezer has removable shelves.
Pretty optimal for cooling bigger things.

80Mhz clock and 1/4 slower sync.
How is this clock generated?

A far fetched.
Sort of direct lines out of the machine, says xDevs 54600A schematics.
Pages 22-23/125 there have +5VF_Core, its buddy +5VF_Pad is clipped but component numbers are still present.
Can you show your version of them some cold spray?

I guess it was a little bit warmer when I acquired it (Jan 2021), it hasn't been used much due to this fault, when last used in December, it required about an hour warm up time, before the horizontal display would lock.

Temperature was around 18°C to 23° (depending which crap thermometer I look at) in the workshop when I checked over the weekend. I've no freeze spray ATM and our freezer sleeves are the plumbing, i.e non removable unless you want to destroy it.

Both the HP 54600A & 54654N use a custom IC (Foxy for 54600A & Jackal for 54654N) to provide the H & V Sync signals and the probe cal signal is divided down from the H-Sync by a 74393, the custom IC has a 40MHz clock input, could check this in the future.





I have to thank whoever posted the 54654N CLIP, as the part # of the Jackal IC is the same one used in my 54615B, around it is the 40MHz oscillator & 74393 IC.



David

David,

I've found it for you, see below. 

[med6753]

Slow but steady progress on the 465B re-cap.

All the old cans removed. Started installation of new caps. There is definitely a shortage of high value capacitors which makes cobbling together lower values in parallel required. For example....the 2 caps in foreground are 560uf/100V to be put in parallel for unavailable 1200uf/100V. In the right rear is a 4700uf/35V and 330uf/35V in parallel for an unavailable 5000uf/35V.

 

[bd139]

I wouldn’t worry about precision there. They are usually specified to -20% +100%. A 5600uF is fine for the 5000uF

[med6753]

I wouldn’t worry about precision there. They are usually specified to -20% +100%. A 5600uF is fine for the 5000uF

Of course and I realize that. But anal me insists we be as close as possible. 

[bd139]

I wouldn’t worry about precision there. They are usually specified to -20% +100%. A 5600uF is fine for the 5000uF

Of course and I realize that. But anal me insists we be as close as possible. 

Been there. I’ve untrained myself from that way as it was getting expensive 

[factory]

Well the intermittent display fault has returned to my HP 54615B, trouble is after the second power up, the Hsync/Cal signals don't stay borked for long enough, to see if they are failing at the same time as the display, the signals are correct before the CRT fully warms up and the picture appears. 

Hsync & cal signals measured, before they quickly corrected themselves to 19.72kHz (Hsync) & 1.2kHz (probe cal).


I can't find the "any" key. 


David

Is there warmer than usual?

Our freezer has removable shelves.
Pretty optimal for cooling bigger things.

80Mhz clock and 1/4 slower sync.
How is this clock generated?

A far fetched.
Sort of direct lines out of the machine, says xDevs 54600A schematics.
Pages 22-23/125 there have +5VF_Core, its buddy +5VF_Pad is clipped but component numbers are still present.
Can you show your version of them some cold spray?

I guess it was a little bit warmer when I acquired it (Jan 2021), it hasn't been used much due to this fault, when last used in December, it required about an hour warm up time, before the horizontal display would lock.

Temperature was around 18°C to 23° (depending which crap thermometer I look at) in the workshop when I checked over the weekend. I've no freeze spray ATM and our freezer sleeves are the plumbing, i.e non removable unless you want to destroy it.

Both the HP 54600A & 54654N use a custom IC (Foxy for 54600A & Jackal for 54654N) to provide the H & V Sync signals and the probe cal signal is divided down from the H-Sync by a 74393, the custom IC has a 40MHz clock input, could check this in the future.



I have to thank whoever posted the 54654N CLIP, as the part # of the Jackal IC is the same one used in my 54615B, around it is the 40MHz oscillator & 74393 IC.



David

Dang, I meant fridge, our freezer has drawers and compressor is eating some bottom area.
But freezer would be better, then you can store its stuff into the fridge and "save" energy.

And dang, oscillator idea out of the window.
Single 40MHz crystal is not very easily going to output 30MHz.
54600A schematics has that same thing but I missed it.
The picture seems to be pretty same, Foxy clock line continues to 74F32 OR gate, is it there also?
The edge part is clipped again but seems that the gate is between the crystal and a clock pin.
A last straw maybe.
Or maybe not, unexpected wait state can also do something like that but from where I have no idea.

I have only that 54600A schematics from xDevs, can't find anything else, different names yes but contents no.
(here search of 546 clip had one result, now two)
There I saw a 10MHz crystal with differential drivers of around 1GHz speed and finally outputting 80MHz to Aspen.
That decoration can more easily output only 3/4 freq. but being a source for H-sync of other chip with its own clock is a bit far, if not that unexpected wait state.

Foxy chip seems to be more in control with timings but maybe Jackal still has an easy access to other clock output to check how its freq. is doing when H-sync is wrong.

If you can see that slow sync picture can you figure out if some other parts are also slow?
Like some calculations or widths being wrong.

Maybe your 18-23 temps were just some air flow and indicating that somewhere is a cooler spot.
Big mass spray cooling can be disturbing, you never really know how it really is.
Cool concrete floor and over night storage on it may also be enough.
Then obviously testing without moving it.
And afterwards learning that your delicate test setup was partially disconnected, not much, just a ground here or there.

Old PC CGA lowres H-sync was 15.7kHz, maybe that kind of a monitor accepts a bit too slow stuff.
I also remember a VHS copy protection system where sync was intentionally out of sync.
Since recording needed precise timing it didn't like that out of sync stuff but TV wasn't picky, and had no problems.
So old video monitor can also be almost ready made picture maker but finding its separated sync signals can be less easy.
And then it probably fails when H-sync is correcting its act.

Maybe, finally, easiest is to do a general purpose MCU controlled double frame buffer thingy that can read anything it can see and transform it to what ever is needed.
CGA to VGA converters are generally accepting 14.5kHz H-sync but auto scan sync polarities are hazy and none seem to accept old MDA or HGC frequencies.

See the Agilent 54645N CLIP on archive.org, posted by BD139 a few weeks back, when Vince bought his HP MSO, be warned it is a mass of jumbled up pages.

Actually you're pretty good with the 54645 scope on service information. There are two documents of interest:

Firstly the user and service manual (module level) is here:

https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2054645A,%2054645D%20User%20&%20Service.pdf

Now here's the good one, the CLIP (component level information package) is here. All 300Mb of it 

https://archive.org/details/HP54645NCLIPImgs

As mentioned in the thread I bounced the parts for reasonable money on their own. Yours is profitable on that front even if it's knackered. In the end I sold the good plastics, the knobs, motherboard (£25 even though it was broken), display assemly and power supply separately and made 2.5x what I paid for it 

If it works the only maintenance risk is the Dallas RAM module and the RIFAs in the power supply board really. They are top notch bits of engineering.

David

[Ice-Tea]

Oh joy. Woke up at 5:30 AM thanks to siren action. Someone outside managing to get mangled on an e-scooter. At least get mangled after 7AM ffs 

"Think of it as evolution in action" - Larry Niven

My little one was awake from 00:33 to 03:46, I was holding him all the time.
I am looking like a zombie today, happy to be at work to rest a bit.

I have litteral nerve damage in my elbow pit from carrying around our youngest around for hours when she was wee. Fun times.

In other, unrelated news, I HATE Windows 11 with a passion.

[bd139]

Oh joy. Woke up at 5:30 AM thanks to siren action. Someone outside managing to get mangled on an e-scooter. At least get mangled after 7AM ffs 

"Think of it as evolution in action" - Larry Niven

My little one was awake from 00:33 to 03:46, I was holding him all the time.
I am looking like a zombie today, happy to be at work to rest a bit.

Been there done that.

In 17 years or so they will make an excellent carrying device to take to hamfests 

[Robert763]

New TEA
No prize, just a quiz, what is it?

[Vince]

A precision scale to prepare individual heroin doses. Stuff is expensive so you need to weigh accurately or you might eat your margin quick and go out of business, not good.

[bd139]

Well eBay user test-equip might be one to avoid. Ordered part on 1st July. No banana yet. Item still in transit so realistically RM have probably lost it at this point. Raised a dispute. No reply for over 1.5 days and then uploaded proof of postage and said “can you check with your local depot. Hope it will arrive soon”. Well fuck no I can’t check because it’s impossible to get hold of anyone, it’s not my problem until it’s signed for and quite frankly hope is not what I paid for. Grr.

This is the infernal ROM.

[Cerebus]

New TEA
No prize, just a quiz, what is it?

The units on the display give away the basic functionality.

Edit: Oh, and if that's not in need of repair and actually has a sample in it, it's fairly hot. (125 mCi)

[mnementh]

mnem
Still 10x the car as my Mk1 Capri, tho.

Which motor mnem ?

The little Cologne V4; what were they, a 1500...? 1300...? Ghahhh.     Can you believe I scratch-built headers for that fuxxoring little automotive backbirth? I thought it'd be just like my Cologne-V6 Spitfire project, only more room to work. Well that part was true... every time I'd swing a wrench, my elbow would go through some newly discovered rust spot. 

mnem
"The gift that keeps on giving..."

   I had a SAAB 95 estate with the little  Ford V4. Fun car.

Awww, heavens Robert... and you admit to it...? I'm proud of you. But seriously... all y'alls pick on the old Citroens as butt-ugly when there's that to compare it to... 

mnem

[mnementh]

I did try to get by with "cherry bomb" glass-packs cuz quick and easy and tidy; but I knew at the time I was bending the pipes I'd probably have to refit with shorty canister mufflers and I was right. The exhaust note just crackled and popped, while the shorty canister mufflers had a delicious burble at idle that turned into a nice throaty rumble under load that never popped or blatted. I was quite pleased with myself on that job.

mnem
*toddles off to do something productive for a change*

I do like a smooth exhaust note, and hate the buzz and crackle.
But, nothing beats the sound of a supercharger.




I do still miss that car.. (fkn boosted 4-cyl rice burners!)

I've had a lot of fun in huffed and squirted rice-rockets... but every last one of 'em sounded like a pissed off bumblebee.

mnem
Until you hit the fast-gas... then they sound like a pissed-off bumblebee on crack.

[factory]

Well eBay user test-equip might be one to avoid. Ordered part on 1st July. No banana yet. Item still in transit so realistically RM have probably lost it at this point. Raised a dispute. No reply for over 1.5 days and then uploaded proof of postage and said “can you check with your local depot. Hope it will arrive soon”. Well fuck no I can’t check because it’s impossible to get hold of anyone, it’s not my problem until it’s signed for and quite frankly hope is not what I paid for. Grr.

This is the infernal ROM.

Few years ago I got a selection of HP LED displays from that seller, back when prices were much lower.

The Tek ROM is probably in the same place as this HP accessory kit, that never arrived (different seller & b-INPOST used).


David