Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tautech]

End of an era. I've had that same roll of 60/40 for perhaps 40 years. But as you can see it's nearly run out. So a replacement arrived today. Genuine Kester 60/40. I figure I better grab some before the nannies outlaw it. That new roll will most likely outlast me.

Holy crap, I'm in shit creek then, I've 9 of these bad boys to get through, maybe I should start to list some on eBay, cos you use way more solder than I do, and I've only recently started the first one of 10 that BD and I purchased some time ago when leaded solder was beginning to become unobtainable so we brought 10 each to keep us going  

No comparison really, these are piddly 1/4lb spools so 4 to one of med's. 

[med6753]

Find an image editing tool with white balance control on it. Click that then click the bit of the picture they’ll at is supposed to be white. Job done. 99% of the photo is the photographer not the camera

Yeah, but to be fair to med, the label is pure white, so I think on this occasion it might just be the flash and the way it is reacting to it.

The picture was taken with no flash but there was a strong LED light illuminating that area which might explain the "blue" effect.

[Specmaster]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

[Specmaster]

Here is my "lab cat" called Megan, telling me that she is hungry and to stop reading the forum posts and feed her.

[med6753]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

[med6753]

Here is my "lab cat" called Megan, telling me that she is hungry and to stop reading the forum posts and feed her.

She looks pissed. Better feed her before she bites your arm. 

[factory]

I give up with PP auction, I'm watching 8 items, most of which I bid on last time, outbid by "electrondsl" on the one item that would make the trip worth bothering with.

David

[Neper]

Here is my "lab cat" called Megan, telling me that she is hungry and to stop reading the forum posts and feed her.

"Why not take me right back to the animal shelter if you don't want to feed me?"

[tautech]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

Got half left of a pound of 62/36/2 probably 30 years back 'for best' like BD does and enough other bits and bobs of 60/40 to see me out including around half a rolled tin and cardboard bobbin of 13g Cinevox ....heavy stuff for battery cables and such. None of that Pb free muck here !

[Cubdriver]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

I'm in a similar boat - still working on the spool I have from my time at National Semi, which ended when they closed the Danbury, CT plant in 1990.  And often use a different spool of water-soluble stuff when doing PC boards that I can wash, so it's not bearing the full brunt of my consumption.

-Pat

[Specmaster]

Here is my "lab cat" called Megan, telling me that she is hungry and to stop reading the forum posts and feed her.

She looks pissed. Better feed her before she bites your arm. 

Nah, she's a big old softie, anyone comes to our house who she doesn't know, and she goes and hides, as does her sister 

[med6753]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

Got half left of a pound of 62/36/2 probably 30 years back 'for best' like BD does and enough other bits and bobs of 60/40 to see me out including around half a rolled tin and cardboard bobbin of 13g Cinevox ....heavy stuff for battery cables and such. None of that Pb free muck here !

I have some of the Tek "special" silver solder for the ceramic strips but I rarely use it. I've found that the 60/40 melts and mixes just fine with the silver solder and I've never had a ceramic strip delaminate when using it. 

[Cubdriver]

Here is my "lab cat" called Megan, telling me that she is hungry and to stop reading the forum posts and feed her.

She looks pissed. Better feed her before she bites your arm. 

Some cats have raised the glower to a high art form, able to wither lesser beings with a sideward glance.

-Pat

[Specmaster]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

Got half left of a pound of 62/36/2 probably 30 years back 'for best' like BD does and enough other bits and bobs of 60/40 to see me out including around half a rolled tin and cardboard bobbin of 13g Cinevox ....heavy stuff for battery cables and such. None of that Pb free muck here !

I have plenty of that heavier stuff myself in the garage, can't use it on delicate electronics, I'd end up turning a PCB into one gigantic ground plain 

[bd139]

Nothing wrong with a good ground plane! 

[med6753]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

Got half left of a pound of 62/36/2 probably 30 years back 'for best' like BD does and enough other bits and bobs of 60/40 to see me out including around half a rolled tin and cardboard bobbin of 13g Cinevox ....heavy stuff for battery cables and such. None of that Pb free muck here !

I have plenty of that heavier stuff myself in the garage, can't use it on delicate electronics, I'd end up turning a PCB into one gigantic ground plain 

That heavier stuff probably doesn't have flux in it anyway.

[tautech]

@tautech True but, he did say that he had the first spool for 40 years, so that means that based on that alone I have over 80 years worth all to myself 

Well, not quite. While it is true I've had that same roll for 40 years I was for many years inactive in the hobby so it wasn't used. It wasn't until about 2014 that I fell into the rabbit hole big time. 

Got half left of a pound of 62/36/2 probably 30 years back 'for best' like BD does and enough other bits and bobs of 60/40 to see me out including around half a rolled tin and cardboard bobbin of 13g Cinevox ....heavy stuff for battery cables and such. None of that Pb free muck here !

I have some of the Tek "special" silver solder for the ceramic strips but I rarely use it. I've found that the 60/40 melts and mixes just fine with the silver solder and I've never had a ceramic strip delaminate when using it.

I only got Ag bearing solder for rework as the alloy has a little lower melting point and never had any boat anchor scopes with Cer strips so to need it although I was very aware of the recommendation to do so.
Trouble is I don't get much time to do repairs anymore as now being a pro TEA enabler keeps me too busy.

[m k]

...Yeah, 625 line PAL is interlaced; I was thinking that when we were talking before. 

That's another reason I decided to put a pin in this project; I'm waiting on the outcome of this eBay dispute. If I'm not keeping this turd, I think I'd much rather spend the time and brain power figuring out what went wrong with my fuckeroo UTG962E. And playing with my brand-new LeSiglent T3DSO2102. 

mnem
Never any shortage of things a tinkerdwagon needs to do...

I'm a bit interested how this scope thing finally is.
For now my guess is that this 313 vertical has nothing to do with PAL.

Is there possibly a military grade high resolution video system with small screens?
Just wondering from where HP got their idea.

Somebody should count those H-sync pulses.
625 is raw PAL and it includes blanking time.

Somebody should also adjust their scope monitor so that returning beam is visible and count how many H-lines it needs.
That much is needed over that 313.

Old Hitachi schematics has very clear horizontal timing as 41.2us.
Is it the right device for sure?

Only one google hit for CDU-10BA241, title of Hitachi schematics.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-871xb-vna-crt-module-capacitor-identification-help/

Much more for CDK-10BA242.
One of its CRT is 240ANB31N and earlier tube shuffle pays off.
As everybody remembers 31 is green, it continues so that 4 is white.
Tube in Hitachi schematics is 240ANB4(N).

Is this white CRT a rarity, is the whole input side of that schematics a rarity?
Maybe 546xx real H-sync is something else than 24270Hz.

According to the Wikipedia entry, there were several PAL standards; most operated at 625 lines(576 visible)50Hz while PAL M operated at 525 lines(480 Visible)60Hz. There was a "standard" called PAL-60 as well that allowed European VCRs to display NTSC VHS tapes; it was a bastard in that it misused the hardware by displaying PAL video at 60Hz with the NTSC color information, this was later promoted by video game consoles like the DreamCast.

I've read somewhere in the HP sales fluff that "waveform refresh" is at 60Hz, so I suspect it is something like that. OTOH, as they're using the PAL chip in a closed system, there's probably no reason they couldn't make their own "bastard" format at 625 lines(576 visible)60Hz... 

As for where these monitors came from... they are small open-frame industrial monitors meant for all sorts of automated manufacturing applications; usually driven by some embedded computer.

mnem
I think. As always, take anything I say with a grain of salt big enough to pickle a dragon.

All PALs are interlaced and 546xx is clearly not, or at least I've not seen a picture indicating different, there part of the picture would be dimmed or disarranged.
There's also D1-PAL, a possibly standard for digitized stuff and 720x576i, obviously not a full signal.

It's of course also possible that the scope has a crooked installation of things where composite signal is composed and taken apart inside the scope and only after that fed to monitor, since there are separated sync sync signals.
Never seen one but who knows, maybe it was a clever form of direct memory access and used chip exported all necessary signals.
On the other hand, maybe 313 is just a prank since one more or less doesn't mean a thing when the real one is 312.5 and license plate was already famous.

First stackexchange answer has a good picture of beam.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/98922/why-there-is-625-lines-pal-in-t-v-scanning-or-odd-lines/98926#98926

Good place for PAL specs.
http://martin.hinner.info/vga/pal.html
Good picture of field selection.
http://martin.hinner.info/vga/pal.gif

TI paper has exact scope screens.
https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sboa109

Where did the PAL picture standard discussion come from for this HP scope? the PAL chip on the 54645N scope mainboard (A3) is just a Programmable Array Logic IC, listed as A3U5 "IC DGTL PAL CMOS 1800-GATES 12NS", I did post the relevant diagram parts, not sure if anyone looked at them.  Pixel data goes in and video data in the form of half bright & full bright pulses come out.

Horizontal & vertical sync pulses come from the A3U28 G-Array IC, these are 19.72kHz & 60Hz for the 54615B at least, I did verify this. I didn't check pulse width but could do, as it's still apart, waiting for some spare time to try & find the intermittent fault.

I doubt the Hsync/Vsync would be any different for the broken Agilent scope, but I suspect the video data is double given the increased specifications mentioned.

David

From that Donald Duck thing.

Back to the basics.
(page 4k something)

54621D H-sync was there, 54600A's also.
(somehow my head had 54645)
Both same, 19720Hz and 60Hz.
(educated guesses from mnem's pictures)
Somebody mentioned monitor's 74LS221, that I couldn't find.

So xDevs 54600A schematics and Hitachi monitor's 41.2us there is wrong and belongs to something else.
(quite a fuss)

Hercules Graphics H-sync is very close to 19k.
I'm quite sure almost any old PC B/W monitor can do it, EGA color monitor should also work.
H-sync is positive, V-sync is negative, TTL.

If monitor is difficult maybe linebuffer is easy enough alternative.
There pixels of one line are stored and sent twice.
Obviously it must be doubled or tripled and timed again completely but then H-line would be quite close to SVGA.

[mansaxel]

However cyclists yep.

I live on the island most frequented by middle-aged men in tights riding bikes they'll never use the potential in.  They come out here in large groups and ride in the car lanes while there is a perfectly good bike lane nearby. Because they can't run at will in the bike lane.

At one place on the islands, there's a bus stop. That bus stop makes the bike lane narrower. So, Twit in Tights decides to bike in front of the fence. I, waiting for a bus, decided to not move. He more or less hit me (very low speed and his elbow, so nothing to talk about in practice.) and then proceeded to yell at me for standing in his way...

Fucking idiots.

No TE today, except Wife noticing a little vintage VOM in one of the display cases in the Merville Battery. (another AR find, so there! )

[mnementh]

Find an image editing tool with white balance control on it. Click that then click the bit of the picture they’ll at is supposed to be white. Job done. 99% of the photo is the photographer not the camera

med uses Winbloze.

EDIT: Maybe med should reconsider Windoze; Photos works very well for minor post-processing. That pic, I'd just turn the "WARMTH" and "CLARITY" sliders up a click or three; would make a world of difference. Vince complains about my grey printed knobs being purple too; personally, I suspect the monitor he's using injects a wee bit of bloo.

mnem
 

[med6753]

Find an image editing tool with white balance control on it. Click that then click the bit of the picture they’ll at is supposed to be white. Job done. 99% of the photo is the photographer not the camera

med uses Winbloze. Windoze Photos works very well for minor post-processing; that pic, I'd just turn the "WARMTH" and "CLARITY" sliders up a click or three; would make a world of difference. Vince complains about my grey printed knobs being purple too; personally, I suspect the monitor he's using injects a wee bit of bloo.

mnem
 

 

No I don't. IrfanView64.

[mnementh]

Condolences then. I'd rather drill screws through my feet than ever use that fustercluck again. Only app I ever found less intuitive than EagleCAD. 

mnem
*cringe*

[Carl_Smith]

Have you tried FreeCAD?   

[mnementh]

No, thankfully... I was warned away by good folk in a forum much like this one. 

mnem
"There's enough misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~Gramma Eddurds

[Neomys Sapiens]

This sounds like the comedic "talk-ins" you get on 2m at hamfests. I actually used to drag my FT818 along just so I could listen to them getting lost and angry

The most´hilarious samples of this type were available when big events or massive situations did lead to units from distant parts of the country being deployed to the region and being present on the radio net in the former times of analogue BOS radio (our PSB).

Episode 1.) Our twin city across the Rhine (situated in the federal state of Rheinland-Palatinate) Ludwigshafen is a city with a very high concentration of chemical industry. A major local event is the annual SAP Marathon, which is often routed through both cities and states. One of the companies which reside in Ludwigshafen is called Raschig. It exudes the smell of road marking paint multiplied hundredfold most of the time and sometimes even more.

Conversation on the combined inter-agency event special channel coming suddenly up during an otherwise dull waiting period:
<Marathon Lu 7-63 : a team of Paramedics or Firefighters from a remote, rural part of Rheinland-Palatinate, tasked with providing a first-aid post and close off a large intersection>:
(very agitated and partially scrambled) 'Marathon Lu from Marathon Lu 7-63!! You must stop, we must abort! Here was an industrial accident! It stinks and we do feel dizzy. What should we do? Send us help.. It smells so much. This must be dangerous'
'Marathon unit calling in Marathon Lu, please state your position!'
'Here is Marathon Lu 7-63..We are where the industrial accident is!'
'Marathon Lu 7-63 for Marathon Lu, what is you assigned position?'
'Here is Marathon Lu 7-63, we do not know. IT STINKS!'
'Marathon Lu 7-63, stand by!'
(here you could hear the conversation in the coordination center)
'Give me the list..lets see---7-63?!?'
(silence of a minute)
Parallel, regular police channel of Ludwigshafen:
'Ludwig 1107 <patrol car native to the area> for Ludwig <dispatch>?'
'Here's 1107 - what gives?'
'Do you know how the Raschig smells when it stinks normally?'
'Yes - so?'
'Ok, please proceed to the intersection Road A/Road B (which is behind the Raschig factory). There are some comrades from X-town at a marathon post - they believe that there was an accident at the factory because of the smell!'
(sound snippets of roaring laughter from various stations and units)
'Ludwig for 1107, we will continue our patrol. We passed by there earlier. Raschig smells since yesterday - somewhat, but not much!>

Episode 2.) During the violent Kurdish mass protests in the 90s, police units from the whole of Germany were deployed to Mannheim. One such unit apparently got lost:
'Cavalier <Pol. Ma foreign contigents directions and assignments> for Hanno 400 <unit of riot police from Hannover>, where are we here? We do not know where we are! Where should we go?>
'Hanno 400, can you describe your position?'
'Cavalier, there is a large building, looks like some company, and another one on the other side. And a parking lot...with a fence. And another, without a fence..'
(this description applies to several 100s or even 1000s of places in our metropolitan region, so it is useless)
'Hanno 400, can you see any conspicious landmarks?'
'We can see some hills in the distance, but they are not close'
(again not helpful, as this applies to 3 of the 4 cardinal directions here)
'Hanno 400, have you tried asking for directions to Point X?'
'Yes. The driver said that we should call the police - but we are the police!'
'Are you sure? (continuing in a pronounced dialect of SW Germany) Dohin wees die Bollizei wo se rumfaehrt! ('here the police knows where it drives around!''