Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[TERRA Operative]

[img width=6°°]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1528393;image[/img]

Boy, do I loooooveee hole punches, waayyy better than nasty holesaws. 

I don't understand... must have misread your previous post... though this amp was just a very vague long term project... and now you present us with a chassis... could you have been lying to us.... no, you would not do that.

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Ha, I used a sheet metal punch, to cut the holes in a chassis I've had ready and waiting for a while.

[Robert763]

WELCOME TO 5000!           
...
I think this is probably a good point to call it a night.    mnem       

Hi Dwagon,   Did you see my posts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275517/#msg4275517
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275556/#msg4275556

Looks like same video scheme as the 892x series a Gondbes 8220 video converter would be my next stop.

Yup, sure did; and followed that rabbit-hole down to that LCD mod. Very tidy!

Problem is that the models we have tech ref on... the ones we've been talking about... are all proper non-greyscale monochrome monitors. Also, this family of monitors are all "1000 line" resolution (IIRC, I read that they "use" ~960 lines), so not too sanguine aboot dropping down to 800x600 resolution. 

There's a CDM-7SX191 monitor on eBay right now for $80... I've been meaning to get into one of these Chinesium video scan converters as a diag tool for a while, so that might still happen... but I think that if I were going to fix this scope, I'd prolly bite the bullet and buy that monitor.

This of course is all dependent on how my dispute resolves out.  I wanted to spend a little time tinkering just to see if there were signs of life; I was hoping it might be easy to mod the CDM-7SF191 I have in that 54600A so it thinks it's a CDM-7SX191.

I may instead try remoting into it over the RS-232 instead... in which case I'll soon be hunting down that software you posted and firing up the old WinXP Toughbook. 

mnem
 

8922M monitor info attached. The seem to share the same 15kHz / 60Hz rate as the 'scope ones so the resolution is down to the video generator not the monitor. 
The hardware in the older monitor is different but should be compatible. You are welcome to a monitor FOC but postage is likey to be far too high to make it worthwhile

[Vince]

[img width=6°°]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1528393;image[/img]

Boy, do I loooooveee hole punches, waayyy better than nasty holesaws. 

I don't understand... must have misread your previous post... though this amp was just a very vague long term project... and now you present us with a chassis... could you have been lying to us.... no, you would not do that.

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Ha, I used a sheet metal punch, to cut the holes in a chassis I've had ready and waiting for a while.

Wow a simple screw is enough for the job and get that clean a result ?! 

That's great !   

No need for a bulky expensive press than... hmm .... how appealing....

[mansaxel]

@mans
I may have an HDMI matrix thingies that I don't need.
in fact a passive and an active one. just have to find it.
I am still not past COVID, but when I am back on my feet I can have a look.
PN if interested pls.

I'm first and foremost happy that you are alive enough to post     and second, I'm pretty picky about which kind of matrix I want.. It seems that the popular, easy chipsets are very governing in features; so that all boxes made the same time share the same limitations, at least for consumer units. A bit like the simple KVM-switches.

I'm after a rather specific model, Extron DXP84, 2HE 8x4 or thereabout. With Ethernet remote control. There was one on ebay for ages that I missed because I kept putting the purchase off.  There are more. I have them on my watch list.

[med6753]

To get back into the TE mode I've got a few projects queued up......

Another one of the Type 1A1 plug-in's has gone funky on low mV ranges. That will involve jackassing a Type 547 on it's side to troubleshoot. Big fun.

The capacitor adapters for the 465B PSU have arrived. The caps themselves should arrive Wednesday.

After that going to start the electrical restoration of the tweaked chassis Type 547.

And finally, just as a reminder......

"Down with the British" 



 

[Cerebus]

Yonks ago, I remember driving a 100E Ford Popular back from London to Southampton on the M3.
Back in those days, the Poms were well into tailgating, with the worst offenders being "chaps driving Jaguars".
Downright terrifying, with the poor old "Pop" screaming its guts out, and a Jag bonnet emblem seemingly in the back seat.

Tailgating was not rare in Oz at the time, but I was surprised how 1970s Brits made an artform of it!
"Culture shock", I guess!

I've been known to repeatedly slow down and then speed up by 5mph.

I just let a gap build in front of me to two times the standard safe distance, decelerating gently if necessary, and try to give them an opportunity to "Go away!" as soon as possible. If that opportunity requires it, and road conditions permit it, I'll accelerate away and pull into a safe gap where they're not behind me. Being left in  a cloud of dust by someone who then drops back to their original speed, well out of their way, is usually enough hint that I want them to either pass me safely or keep the hell away. If they're really persistent I'll just indicate and pull over to the side of the road forcing them to pass me if they want to continue - I'd rather add a minute to my journey than have to spend the next x miles compensating for a tailgating idiot.

I really ought to develop an index relating manufacturer vs how long it takes for the driver to Get A Clue. Wonder which would be beat/worst

Why not do it by gender, age, skin colour, wearing of a head covering (hat, wimple, turban, whatever), having children or some other entirely arbitrary characteristic? You'll get the same results whichever way, that associating a distinguishing characteristic with bad driving will just make you more likely to spot that characteristic when you spot bad driving. That's why people associate bad driving with "brand x". It's not that "brand x" drivers are any worse than drivers of any other brand, it's just that it's easy to reinforce your cognitive biases as you completely fail to attribute the "brand x" effect to any car of that make you see being driven well.

If the "brand x" attracts bad drivers effect was true, then it's converse would also be true: "brand y" attracts good drivers. However, I've never heard anyone hold forth that "Brand y drivers? They never cause any problems.". That's because people don't actively spot good driving the way they do bad, and therefore don't succumb to the human trait of trying to associate arbitrary labels with observed phenomena.

[Cerebus]

Depends how many posts people deleted 

Revisionist bastards! 

Oh right, and you haven't played that game...... how's your halo hanging these days ? 

Oh I buried that halo 40 years ago 

"Buried halo" reminds me: when is Netflix releasing the next season of "Warrior Nun", which ought to be called "Ninja Nuns With Guns"? It is good mindless entertainment late at night, with a drink, reading this thread on a tablet.

I'm reminded of the 2010 classic film: "Nude nuns with Big Guns"

[Cerebus]

Boy, do I loooooveee hole punches, waayyy better than nasty holesaws. 

Ditto. But what I'd really like is a big [hydraulic] press and a large collection of dies, punches and appropriate holding fixtures.

[mnementh]

Depends how many posts people deleted 

Revisionist bastards! 

Oh right, and you haven't played that game...... how's your halo hanging these days ? 

Oh I buried that halo 40 years ago 

mnem
What... is it crooked again...?

[TERRA Operative]

[img width=6°°]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1528393;image[/img]

Boy, do I loooooveee hole punches, waayyy better than nasty holesaws. 

I don't understand... must have misread your previous post... though this amp was just a very vague long term project... and now you present us with a chassis... could you have been lying to us.... no, you would not do that.

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Ha, I used a sheet metal punch, to cut the holes in a chassis I've had ready and waiting for a while.

Wow a simple screw is enough for the job and get that clean a result ?! 

That's great !   

No need for a bulky expensive press than... hmm .... how appealing....

Yeah, really easy to use, just wind the screw tight and it cuts right through.
Soooo much better than a hole saw..

[bd139]

And finally, just as a reminder......

"Down with the British" 

Oh yes independence day tomorrow. Best day of the year for me as I don't have to put up with my American colleagues 

[mansaxel]

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Search for "sheet metal punch" -- what you do is drill a pilot hole and then use a punch that is operated with a screw in it: 

Like this set on the US bay

[mnementh]

Depends how many posts people deleted 

Revisionist bastards! 

It can be difficult to foretell history.

That's why I joined my local chapter of the Historical Pre-Enactment Society.

I’m in the Historical Pre-Enactment Society, myself. History is so much easier to revise when you do it before it happens.

mnem
“James, Jesus never rode a Polar Bear with Lincoln to fight giant sand scorpions; you know damn well it was a T-Rex. Lincoln rode the polar bear.”

[mnementh]

I found this video of the Agilent 54621A earlier, interesting the front panel boards got changed to FR4, also note the comms modules from older HP 546xx scopes are not compatible (different connector) and may cause damage if forced on & used like that, you have been warned.

Since we're posting pics of these models here's mine. Notice anything interesting about it? 

kuh-nibberty kuh-nobs... 

mnem
huh.

[Ice-Tea]

Things I don't want to see: "RIFA, "Schaeffner" but also "charge". So: take it apart!





For once this is not a problem. No batteries.



Off cource, to balance things out a Schlumberger, a bit further on the bench just puke out its Schaeffner timebomb.

[m k]

I am quite interested in what looks like an old A3 format HP Plotter...

Speaking of which, there used to be a company making HP-compatible plotters and selling them by the boat load. Had one to plot films for making PCBs.

I can't for the life of me remember the name of this company. Any help?

CalComp, Roland, Summa?

After another long search on Google and Ebay... Sekonic.

Must be a local something, for now it's completely unknown to me.

[m k]

WELCOME TO 5000!           
...
I think this is probably a good point to call it a night.    mnem       

Hi Dwagon,   Did you see my posts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275517/#msg4275517
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275556/#msg4275556

Looks like same video scheme as the 892x series a Gondbes 8220 video converter would be my next stop.

Yup, sure did; and followed that rabbit-hole down to that LCD mod. Very tidy!

Problem is that the models we have tech ref on... the ones we've been talking about... are all proper non-greyscale monochrome monitors. Also, this family of monitors are all "1000 line" resolution (IIRC, I read that they "use" ~960 lines), so not too sanguine aboot dropping down to 800x600 resolution. 

There's a CDM-7SX191 monitor on eBay right now for $80... I've been meaning to get into one of these Chinesium video scan converters as a diag tool for a while, so that might still happen... but I think that if I were going to fix this scope, I'd prolly bite the bullet and buy that monitor.

This of course is all dependent on how my dispute resolves out.  I wanted to spend a little time tinkering just to see if there were signs of life; I was hoping it might be easy to mod the CDM-7SF191 I have in that 54600A so it thinks it's a CDM-7SX191.

I may instead try remoting into it over the RS-232 instead... in which case I'll soon be hunting down that software you posted and firing up the old WinXP Toughbook. 

mnem
 

More CRT types needed.

54600A Pixel_data and Marker_dots are already 32 levels internally, but only 2nd and 4th of Pixel_data are used externally.
So taking out all five is pretty simple but the situation should also be very clearly visible in the monitor.
Old Intensity reference pot can grant its pins.

54600A Pixel_data goes through U37 74LS194 and then HB goes to U30 74ALS08, FB does the same but first ORing Marker_dots in U31 74F32, so either will do a final FB.
All gates are used so extra chip must be added, no idea when the device is designed but 5 TTL monitor pins feels a bit too much.

nixiefreqq's neck board has 1 FET and 3 BJTs, I'd say that 5 TTL pins are not there.

Since 74S03 is the earlier model my guess is that later monitors became better and external data level reference was not needed anymore.
So comparing two datalines will tell how the situation is.

Testing with an extra *old* computer monitor should also be pretty easy, if one is available.
One gate chip is needed, old display modes were selected by swapping sync polarities.
Using only green as data is also fine.

Functional monitor is not needed if vertical line movement is possible, since its color value is different it should be very visible.
Maybe duplicating buttons of two side by side machines can do settings.

Resolution
255 V x 500 H 54600B
256 V x 500 H 54615B

54620-series
255 vertical by 1000 horizontal points (waveform area)
32 levels of gray scale

Is it really 1000 pixels?
Vertical is the same as before so monitor is probably also pretty same as before.
I tried to find some tube info but everything was too old.
So no real idea of physical resolution of those 7" mono tubes.
But it can be checked, just compare those old and new 546xx horizontal lines, 1000 res has half the pixel length.
If shorter pixel length is there then different CRT must be also present, if that is the key.

[mnementh]

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Search for "sheet metal punch" -- what you do is drill a pilot hole and then use a punch that is operated with a screw in it: 

Like this set on the US bay

In case you didn't know, Vince... these are a common "Sparky" tool. They're used to put holes in a electric box that doesn't have one exactly where you need it.

That set is not going to sell anywhere nearly so cheaply... I've stalked it more than a few times, and it never goes for less than a C-note, usually more like $125-150 if all the dies are in good nick. The low-profile stepped drill is a nice add-on; it helps when working in tight confines of a populated box. 

mnem
 

[Vince]

Looks very clean/professional indeed... but what machine did you use that had enough force to punch through that metal, smoothly, i a controlled manner ? Surely a flick of a hammer won't do it... do you have a press ? That would be to just as interesting to see as the resulting holes... because I sure am interested as well.... links/costs etc....

Search for "sheet metal punch" -- what you do is drill a pilot hole and then use a punch that is operated with a screw in it: 

Like this set on the US bay

In case you didn't know, Vince... these are a common "Sparky" tool. They're used to put holes in a electric box that doesn't have one exactly where you need it.

mnem
 

No of course I didn't know, otherwise I would not have asked Terra 

Must be something with American Sparkies though ? I see they use metal boxes there, but here it's plastic so it's just easier to use a drill if you really have to make new holes...

Now I think or it, one big advantage of punches is that you can make any shape you want, not just round holes... so it opens up an entire new world of possibilities 
You could make a hole with a flat, to fit pots and keep them from spinning round and round, or anything... as long as someone somewhere sells the shape that you want...

[Vince]

Stupid me, now I remember my old man has an old punching machine, something like that :

You just attach a long lever / bar to it and use your muscles and bing, you have a hole.
I wonder if he still has it... hope so, so I can inherit it  !: 

He keeps pressing me to know when my garage will be built so he can donate all of his tools to me to free the large ex-family house and move into a much smaller and more convenient (given his age) house...

[Vince]

... or maybe just use cheap crap chinse shop hydraulic press used for wheel bearings.
The cheap bench ones are not so good for their intended use, but if you use them for punching sheet metal they would probably do just fine ?!

Only 100 Euros for this small 6 tonne one :

https://www.amazon.fr/Presse-hydraulique-datelier-Pression-pressage/dp/B074N1Q2V6/ref=sr_1_15?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=QLBVHUNLNZHM&keywords=presse+hydraulique&qid=1656868633&sprefix=presse+hydraulique%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-15

... but we get ripped off in France, probably worth only 40 bucks at Harbour Freight in the US I bet

[BU508A]

@Vince:

No need to fiddle around with funny hydraulic presses or so. Just get a set with an approbiate hydraulic tool for 209 Euro (NAWTS):



https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_ssn=cnc-speedmetal&store_name=cncspeedmetal&_oac=1&_dmd=1&store_cat=11854325012

If you want good quality, go after the Greenlee sets but they are three times more expensive, if available.

[Vince]

Hmmm cool, a purpose built hydraulic thingy for punching, how practical. Takes much less space than a shop press, you can just store it in a drawer/box, I like that...

[Robert763]

Some time ago, I've purchased a Fluke 8060A(parts only, $42.00 - little expensive). Install new alkaline, turn on - no display. Open up, start checking - why the brand new battery has only 8.2V?
Well, the Gorilla was here, and left two shorts(Gorilla1-2.jpg; red arrow:short on the bottom, continued on the top thru a capacitor pin hole). Removing the shorts, the LCD came back to life; time to start the capacitor replacement.
Oops, more Gorilla footprints: broken LCD bracket(LCD_Support.jpg) and button support(Assembly_Support.jpg), Well, I need to dig out/install the Tools_of_Trade: Dremel, vertical tool stand, 0.5mm Carbide drill.
Glued the parts together with CA(Loctite.jpg) as placeholder, then proceed with the drilling. After drilling, add a drop of CA on the top of the hole, move the wires(0.45mm, leftover from the 10µF replacements) in-out a few times to fill the hole with CA, add a drop of accelerator on the top, then let cure for 24 h.
Replace the caps(surprisingly, no leaks) and the MAC socket, let the PCB and MAC soak in isopropanol for 24 h, short iso rinse, then dry for 24h more. Assembly, test - almost spot on. But since it has a good family to join, I've adjusted a bit...
Anyway, when I will have the time, I will make some tools to properly adjust/calibrate the whole family...

I just noticed that on one of your pictures the LCD mask is under the lower tabs / clips in the mount. This is incorrect and puts stress on the LCD. The mask should butt up to the tabs, not under them. Hopefully this was a before picture.

[mnementh]

WELCOME TO 5000!           
...
I think this is probably a good point to call it a night.    mnem       

Hi Dwagon,   Did you see my posts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275517/#msg4275517
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275556/#msg4275556

Looks like same video scheme as the 892x series a Gondbes 8220 video converter would be my next stop.

Yup, sure did; and followed that rabbit-hole down to that LCD mod. Very tidy!

Problem is that the models we have tech ref on... the ones we've been talking about... are all proper non-greyscale monochrome monitors. Also, this family of monitors are all "1000 line" resolution (IIRC, I read that they "use" ~960 lines), so not too sanguine aboot dropping down to 800x600 resolution. 

There's a CDM-7SX191 monitor on eBay right now for $80... I've been meaning to get into one of these Chinesium video scan converters as a diag tool for a while, so that might still happen... but I think that if I were going to fix this scope, I'd prolly bite the bullet and buy that monitor.

This of course is all dependent on how my dispute resolves out.  I wanted to spend a little time tinkering just to see if there were signs of life; I was hoping it might be easy to mod the CDM-7SF191 I have in that 54600A so it thinks it's a CDM-7SX191.

I may instead try remoting into it over the RS-232 instead... in which case I'll soon be hunting down that software you posted and firing up the old WinXP Toughbook. 

mnem
 

More CRT types needed.

54600A Pixel_data and Marker_dots are already 32 levels internally, but only 2nd and 4th of Pixel_data are used externally.
So taking out all five is pretty simple but the situation should also be very clearly visible in the monitor.
Old Intensity reference pot can grant its pins.

54600A Pixel_data goes through U37 74LS194 and then HB goes to U30 74ALS08, FB does the same but first ORing Marker_dots in U31 74F32, so either will do a final FB.
All gates are used so extra chip must be added, no idea when the device is designed but 5 TTL monitor pins feels a bit too much.

nixiefreqq's neck board has 1 FET and 3 BJTs, I'd say that 5 TTL pins are not there.

Since 74S03 is the earlier model my guess is that later monitors became better and external data level reference was not needed anymore.
So comparing two datalines will tell how the situation is.

Testing with an extra *old* computer monitor should also be pretty easy, if one is available.
One gate chip is needed, old display modes were selected by swapping sync polarities.
Using only green as data is also fine.

Functional monitor is not needed if vertical line movement is possible, since its color value is different it should be very visible.
Maybe duplicating buttons of two side by side machines can do settings.

Resolution
255 V x 500 H 54600B
256 V x 500 H 54615B

54620-series
255 vertical by 1000 horizontal points (waveform area)
32 levels of gray scale

Is it really 1000 pixels?
Vertical is the same as before so monitor is probably also pretty same as before.
I tried to find some tube info but everything was too old.
So no real idea of physical resolution of those 7" mono tubes.
But it can be checked, just compare those old and new 546xx horizontal lines, 1000 res has half the pixel length.
If shorter pixel length is there then different CRT must be also present, if that is the key.

It is entirely possible I misremembered the line count on this monitor and conflated the numbers with those above. We know that the 54645A is using a PAL combi chip, so up to 625 lines (I can't remember if that's interlaced or not) to play with; so yeah, I can see those numbers being legit.

54645A and 54600A both use the same DataRay CDM-7SF191 part number. I've attached some pics. The main and CRT PCBs appear identical, even though the older CDM-7SF191 in my 54600A uses a Panasonic M18JCB34GH CRT vs the Toshiba E9054B31-CDHT CRT in my 54645A. That Toshiba CRT, however, is the same as the in the 54621D, so the CRTs in all 3 models must be interchangeable?

I'm thinking now that my original surmise is correct... provided nothing wrong with the mainboard, we should be able to get something useful on the screen with the 54621D and the CDM-7SF191 from my 54600A. Just need to see how they're modulating the brightness to get those greyscales. I guess my next step will be a breakout PCB. 

For now, tho, I've had to put it away; wifey has requested I look at the AC in our old Saturn.

mnem