Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16489066 times)

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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124525 on: June 28, 2022, 11:01:01 pm »
It should be the user's choice not the manufacturers....
Adding the possibility for the people who want or require it for XYZ reason doesn't take anything away from other users. It's just an option, an option.....

Hell, just put RGB LEDs next to the ports...

Doesn’t work like that. You can buy it not. If you buy it you have to drink whatever excrement the manufacturer served.

As for RGB LEDs that’s fine until you have the probe tips ringed and need an LED at that end too…

Actually once you've got enough probes on the table it would be quite useful to have an LED near the probe tip that you could light up to find out which probe's where.
Yep, probe ID might be needed with our new 8ch monster especially when these can be daisy chained together for up to 512 channels !  :scared:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds6000l-2ghz-12bit-8-ch-(china-only)/
Custom trace colors will be no problem though as this feature is already present in a few Siglent models although another concern is does the palette have 512 colors to have one for every channel trace ?  :-//
A quick play with the new flagship just to check it was all working like lesser models do.
512 visually different traces will prove to be a challenge though.

Was wondering what this scope daisy chaining was all about, so had a quick look at your link... OK I understand better now, makes more sense... it's not bench scopes being linked together, just front ends  reporting to a computer for display there. SO just one screen, the computer.

Well I think colours only makes snes/work if there are only a handful / small number of them, so that the brain can easily/quickly, and reliably tell them apart. To me even 8 is starting to get a bit messy, so 512 oh my god... simply useless.

So I guess if I were wirting the S/W of this PC based scope, I would combine colours and nubmers, or labels. Use a handful of colours to create groups of traces related to each other, that make sense to the user, whatever that maybe. Then for each colour, just number the traces, and if the user wants to boher/take the time, let him replace the number by a user created label that makes it more explicit.

Something like that.... but it's never gonna be easy for the user no matter what. 512 is just ... hopefully just for marketing / bragging / dick contest, but no real world user will actually ever want to use that many channels at the same time  :scared:
Equipment like this is targeted at production and while you are unlikely to ever need so many channels it's available as the theoretical limit.
Traces we can also name and chose to make that name visible or not or the channel visible or not which provides for a heap of flexibility when you need a reference channel connected but not necessarily displayed.

I believe the programming and remote control of these is to be their big strength and we had some interest in this currently unreleased product range at EMEX from a big multinational manufacturer.

Until we get one to play with their real capabilities is just conjecture however I see these being controlled from their webservers and maybe even a group of them as/like a single multichannel unit.
Quite keen to get my hands on one......
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Online Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124526 on: June 29, 2022, 01:34:28 am »
I love my crocs



just testing it at work... nothing stellar, it just gets the job done, somehow...
And it is small.... I like it...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 02:58:44 am by Zucca »
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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124527 on: June 29, 2022, 02:37:22 am »
You fukkin' agitator, Z!  :-DD

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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124528 on: June 29, 2022, 02:53:43 am »
My mini-vacation (holiday) a few weeks ago was so enjoyable that tomorrow (Wednesday) morning I'll be heading out on another one. This one will be longer than the previous and again....the location be known only to me.  ;) I probably won't be back on the blog until at least Saturday or Sunday. So obviously that will put me at least 10 pages or possibly more behind. Now I could follow the blog on my phone but I have no intention of doing so. If you are gonna get away....then get away.  ;D So if there is something specific for me it will have to wait until I return or send me a PM.

Does this trip involve a female? No comment. Decadent activities? No comment. Illegal activities? Why yes, at one time one was but no longer. No further clues.   >:D

I just know you all be jealous.  :P :P :-DD 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 02:55:45 am by med6753 »
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Online Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124529 on: June 29, 2022, 02:54:47 am »
Zucca, you called it. That was about the dumbest fix of all time. Monkey look at PCB, monkey see two burned-up-looking components, monkey order replacement components from Digi-Key, monkey replace components. I think a NASA soldering inspector would just shake his head, but at the end of the day I'm happy. Not too bad for USD66 plus USD12 in components (I bought extras in case I sneezed).

Ah ahh... so cooool. Nice! I am so happy for you. Now all you have to do it sending it out for calibration, and there you go a 6.5 reference meter for your lab!  :-+ :-+
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124530 on: June 29, 2022, 05:25:14 am »

Plus Floppies are more convenient to carry your files with you and then go to computer, or some body else's in another office, and load your files there. Portability.


Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.

Transfering one 1.4MiB floppy worth of data over 115200 serial is going to take 102 seconds, if my maths is less broken than usual. In 1 minute 42 seconds, the "convenience" of carrying the file via sneakernet (execute copy command, unmount floppy, get to instrument, retrieve disk, move disk, insert disk, mount disk, copy files out of it) is going to be beaten. For trivial things like a file in the 10s of KiB, serial is so much faster it's silly.

Besides, RS-232 is soo archaic today (except where it isn't; I use serial console at work every week, at least) that it carries its own aura de cool with it.

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124531 on: June 29, 2022, 05:35:48 am »
I love my crocs


Are those ESD crocs?

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124532 on: June 29, 2022, 06:14:18 am »
My mini-vacation (holiday) a few weeks ago was so enjoyable that tomorrow (Wednesday) morning I'll be heading out on another one. This one will be longer than the previous and again....the location be known only to me.  ;) I probably won't be back on the blog until at least Saturday or Sunday. So obviously that will put me at least 10 pages or possibly more behind. Now I could follow the blog on my phone but I have no intention of doing so. If you are gonna get away....then get away.  ;D So if there is something specific for me it will have to wait until I return or send me a PM.

Does this trip involve a female? No comment. Decadent activities? No comment. Illegal activities? Why yes, at one time one was but no longer. No further clues.   >:D

I just know you all be jealous.  :P :P :-DD

Sounds like my kind of holiday  :-DD. Enjoy  :-+
 

Offline mrjoda

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124533 on: June 29, 2022, 06:33:44 am »
https://teledynelecroy.com/probes/probemodel.aspx?modelid=11667&categoryid=3&mseries=537


such a beast... now I have to convince my colleagues that we really really need it :D
 

Offline dl6lr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124534 on: June 29, 2022, 06:47:59 am »
Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.

Transfering one 1.4MiB floppy worth of data over 115200 serial is going to take 102 seconds, if my maths is less broken than usual. In 1 minute 42 seconds, the "convenience" of carrying the file via sneakernet (execute copy command, unmount floppy, get to instrument, retrieve disk, move disk, insert disk, mount disk, copy files out of it) is going to be beaten. For trivial things like a file in the 10s of KiB, serial is so much faster it's silly.

The raw data rate of a 3,5" HD floppy disk is 500kbps, but it includes sector headers, checksums, gaps etc. A 1.4MiB floppy has 2.0MiB  raw capacity. It rotates at 360rpm, so you could read/write in theory all 160 tracks in 28.27s (20ms stepping time, no interleave, ideally formatted), but usually you are way slower due to file system overhead and slower stepper rates. As you said: Writing and reading that amount of data including the sneakernet transport and disk changes you will have a hard time to beat the serial link.
 

Online Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124535 on: June 29, 2022, 06:48:55 am »
<SNIP>
But yeah if the computer is close to the scope it's OK to transfer via a cable be it GPIB or serial.
Don't know if the old HP MSO can transfer screen capture files via RS232, will need to have a look in the manual. That would be cool if it could.

<SNIP>


Of course it can. I use the HPAK Bench Link software
https://www.keysight.com/gb/en/lib/software-detail/computer-software/download-benchlink-xl-54600-software-version-2-1000000922epsgsud.html
https://www.keysight.com/gb/en/assets/9018-06303/quick-start-guides/9018-06303.pdf

It transfers data as well as images.
There are other options see
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp54645d-print-screen-via-rs232/
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124536 on: June 29, 2022, 08:35:01 am »


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/the-non-linear-plasma-reactor/msg4265899/#msg4265899

Is this hairy-brained guy by any chance related to the notorious Ivor Catt? His persistence strikes me as very similar!

I remember reading a hilarous series of comments on something Ivor Catt contributed to "Wireless World" by "Ouida Dogg", "Weiver-Mowse" & one other, which has been lost in the mists of time, or my failing memory, or whatever.
 
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Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124537 on: June 29, 2022, 08:52:13 am »
Free. Just pay for shipping.

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124538 on: June 29, 2022, 08:58:30 am »

Plus Floppies are more convenient to carry your files with you and then go to computer, or some body else's in another office, and load your files there. Portability.


Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.

Transfering one 1.4MiB floppy worth of data over 115200 serial is going to take 102 seconds, if my maths is less broken than usual. In 1 minute 42 seconds, the "convenience" of carrying the file via sneakernet (execute copy command, unmount floppy, get to instrument, retrieve disk, move disk, insert disk, mount disk, copy files out of it) is going to be beaten. For trivial things like a file in the 10s of KiB, serial is so much faster it's silly.

Besides, RS-232 is soo archaic today (except where it isn't; I use serial console at work every week, at least) that it carries its own aura de cool with it.

In my last job before retiring, the Spectrum Analyser had all sorts of sexy connections to allow a remote PC to command various functions, but there was no way to send screen shots back the other direction.

Instead, it had a floppy drive.
The PC in my office, on which I was producing a file showing the frequency response of all the transmitter constituent RF amplifier modules which added together in parallel to obtain 1kW output, did not have a floppy drive, so the easiest method was to put the floppies in the drive of the Workshop PC, copy them to a USB thumbdrive, take the thumbdrive upstairs, insert it in the office PC, copy it to the file, type in any commentary, save, then return to the Workshop.
 
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124539 on: June 29, 2022, 09:21:03 am »
So I printed the PH-163 casing. Fit's perfectly and seems relatively safe to use, but the creator neglected to mention which terminals he used. Has anyone an idea what terminals would fit the PH-163 pins? Or what terminals these are in his picture? https://3dmixers.com/m/268285-ph-163-connector-hp-oval-

McBryce.

I remember the one from Thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4862134 and it mentions TE model 633381-1.

 :( Just called my Tyco rep to get some samples sent over and he says they are out of stock with no set date for new production.

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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124540 on: June 29, 2022, 09:27:48 am »
Here's a question for those who are smarter than I (so, all of you... :D )

What are the easiest ways to measure scope probe bandwidth and frequency response?

For bandwidth, can I just use a BNC to probe tip adapter and plug into my Leo Bodnar Pulser?
And for frequency response I'll have to buy a spectrum analyzer to do frequency sweeps or is there some way I can use FFT on my scope and get meaningful results?
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124541 on: June 29, 2022, 09:31:35 am »

Plus Floppies are more convenient to carry your files with you and then go to computer, or some body else's in another office, and load your files there. Portability.


Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.

My Apple Smalltalk floppies from the 1980s still work.

I'm not sure that flash drives won't leak electrons over that time interval. ISTR I've seen statements of "years" rather than "decades", which is enough for me to want to keep multiple copies of backups.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 09:33:44 am by tggzzz »
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124542 on: June 29, 2022, 10:20:50 am »
My mini-vacation (holiday) a few weeks ago was so enjoyable that tomorrow (Wednesday) morning I'll be heading out on another one. This one will be longer than the previous and again....the location be known only to me.  ;) I probably won't be back on the blog until at least Saturday or Sunday. So obviously that will put me at least 10 pages or possibly more behind. Now I could follow the blog on my phone but I have no intention of doing so. If you are gonna get away....then get away.  ;D So if there is something specific for me it will have to wait until I return or send me a PM.

Does this trip involve a female? No comment. Decadent activities? No comment. Illegal activities? Why yes, at one time one was but no longer. No further clues.   >:D

I just know you all be jealous.  :P :P :-DD 
Go on you bloody teaser, go and enjoy your wicked few days of debauchery  >:D, we will still be here waiting for your next installment in the on going battles of "Man v Tek" space heaters.   :-DD :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124543 on: June 29, 2022, 10:29:21 am »
Commodore update time. Did a display transplant from my SR4912 calc into the F4902 and everything works just fine. Messaged the seller regarding the display and I got £5 refund, so that will be useful towards payment for another donor Commodore calculator of which there are many scientific and other special function calculators out in the wild that could donate a 12 digit display to return the SR4912 back to full health again.

There is nothing quite like the nice cosy, warm display of a nice ruby red LED display.  :-+

 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124544 on: June 29, 2022, 10:53:23 am »
<SNIP>
But yeah if the computer is close to the scope it's OK to transfer via a cable be it GPIB or serial.
Don't know if the old HP MSO can transfer screen capture files via RS232, will need to have a look in the manual. That would be cool if it could.

<SNIP>


Of course it can. I use the HPAK Bench Link software
https://www.keysight.com/gb/en/lib/software-detail/computer-software/download-benchlink-xl-54600-software-version-2-1000000922epsgsud.html
https://www.keysight.com/gb/en/assets/9018-06303/quick-start-guides/9018-06303.pdf

It transfers data as well as images.
There are other options see
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp54645d-print-screen-via-rs232/

Thanks !  :-+
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124545 on: June 29, 2022, 11:09:25 am »

Plus Floppies are more convenient to carry your files with you and then go to computer, or some body else's in another office, and load your files there. Portability.


Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.

Transfering one 1.4MiB floppy worth of data over 115200 serial is going to take 102 seconds, if my maths is less broken than usual. In 1 minute 42 seconds, the "convenience" of carrying the file via sneakernet (execute copy command, unmount floppy, get to instrument, retrieve disk, move disk, insert disk, mount disk, copy files out of it) is going to be beaten. For trivial things like a file in the 10s of KiB, serial is so much faster it's silly.

Besides, RS-232 is soo archaic today (except where it isn't; I use serial console at work every week, at least) that it carries its own aura de cool with it.


I don't understand the hate for floppies, what else did you want scopes to use back then ? USB ? There was no USB.
Serial link faster ? That's irrelevant, that implies that by some magic wherever you decide / need to put your scope, somehow there will be a computer right there on the bench next to the scope, and that it will have a serial cable and the S/W to go with it... didn't work like that in real life at my school at least. There were no computers in the class room in physics, so the teacher would grab the scope (only had one, was so expensive), bring it to a particular bench in the class, put stuff on the floppy then grab the floppy back to his office, that might a few meters away, or on another floor or even another building altogether.
You need a portable media, and one that's easily usable by the desktop computers of the day. So it was either3.5" floppy or nothing. Simple.

Hell even if by some magic there WAS a computer with a serial cable available right next to the scope, then what ? You transfer your file to that PC, then what ? How do you transfer that file to your computer in your office so you can create your report / Word document with it ? You get it from the network ? There was no network back then in my school, to speak of. So used floppies to transfer files from one computer to another.  And let's say that OK, there was ONE computer in the class room... class room is very large, scope might requires a 10 or 20 meter serial cable to get to the computer... you don't get  silly fast speeds of R232 at that sort of distance, no you just crawl... quite possibly even much slower than a floppy drive would write the file.
So take the scope to the computer at the other side of the room ? Silly, no practical. Once you have setup your scope / experiment, it stays there until not needed anymore. But writing the file to a floppy and grabbing that and taking it to any place to any computer.. yes, that, is  practical.

I don't see, back then, how you could offer the same practically in any other way. Surely all TE manufacturers thought like me that ",5" floppies were the obvious choice, and surely all the customers that paid extra to tick the " FDD " option though that too.

 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124546 on: June 29, 2022, 11:13:04 am »
More good news, just soldered the old dodgy display into the Commodore SR4912 and it also is now working perfectly, so maybe the actual problem was in the now unused display location as can be seen in the photo below  :-+

So it looks like its a case of winner winner, chicken dinner, A refund of £5 as well and now both of my special function calculators are fully functioning as intended.  :-+ :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124547 on: June 29, 2022, 11:13:34 am »
Floppies are an electromechanical part that is unreliable.
My Apple Smalltalk floppies from the 1980s still work.

I'm not sure that flash drives won't leak electrons over that time interval. ISTR I've seen statements of "years" rather than "decades", which is enough for me to want to keep multiple copies of backups.

The core concept to keep in mind here is that if you are relying on one single instance of <anything> to safekeep bitstreams regardless of content, you're doing it wrong. Because <anything> will break. At the most inconvenient point in time, at that.

Edited to add: I dislike floppies for their lack of speed and them forcing me to be present to execute the sneakernet transport, and that is in addition to GENERAL ERROR READING A:

(Who the fuck is General Error and why is he reading my drive? )
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 11:15:56 am by mansaxel »
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124548 on: June 29, 2022, 11:22:20 am »


I don't see, back then, how you could offer the same practically in any other way. Surely all TE manufacturers thought like me that ",5" floppies were the obvious choice, and surely all the customers that paid extra to tick the " FDD " option though that too.

If I want something impractical, I would sign up to work for a heritage railway. Today, one hangs a serial-to-TCP dongle, driven by the DTR voltage perhaps, on the scope and are done with it. My TDS520 has serial and parallel option, as well as GPIB. That will be useful. Once I get it to run again.

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #124549 on: June 29, 2022, 11:30:23 am »


I don't see, back then, how you could offer the same practically in any other way. Surely all TE manufacturers thought like me that ",5" floppies were the obvious choice, and surely all the customers that paid extra to tick the " FDD " option though that too.

If I want something impractical, I would sign up to work for a heritage railway. Today, one hangs a serial-to-TCP dongle, driven by the DTR voltage perhaps, on the scope and are done with it. My TDS520 has serial and parallel option, as well as GPIB. That will be useful. Once I get it to run again.

Again it's about the relevance of it back in the day, not today...
As for practicality well the TDS 520 scope itself could therefore be deemed just as impractical as the floppy, and therefore be replaced as well... I mean who wants to carry around a boat anchor and have it take so much space on the bench, when you can have today a compact and light portable scope ?

And what about that scope ? Still waiting for piccies of the boards, have you looked closely to spot signs of corrosion ?
 


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