Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Zucca]

USA mains pics in my home



Two AC units are on...


Why four big ass cables starts here if two are tied together??


The amount of exposed conductor metal inside a metal case panel is disturbing to me.

when I will install my inverter.... those big ass cables (AWG0?) will be a bitch to work with...

[mnementh]

That's a pretty tidy box. The breaker should be a 2-pole breaker with internal common trip, such that if either leg overloads it trips both.

You mean the few mm of exposed conductor on some of the current-carrying conductors? This is pretty typical; most sparkies over here are not that anal. Be glad the aluminum conductors do appear to have been properly treated with NoAlOx.

Or did you mean the exposed copper ground leads? That is perfectly normal over here; in fact, you aren't supposed to have the outer sheathing kept intact on ROMEX more than a inch or so inside the box. Bare copper all the way to the GND bus is correct, and those are nicely routed and tidy against the back of the box as they should be.

Yes, aught-gauge aluminum is a dicksore to work with.

mnem
 

[med6753]

That's a pretty tidy box. The breaker should be a 2-pole breaker with internal common trip, such that if either leg overloads it trips both.

You mean the few mm of exposed conductor on some of the current-carrying conductors? This is pretty typical; most sparkies over here are not that anal. Be glad the aluminum conductors do appear to have been properly treated with NoAlOx.

Or did you mean the exposed copper ground leads? That is perfectly normal over here; in fact, you aren't supposed to have the outer sheathing kept intact on ROMEX more than a inch or so inside the box. Bare copper all the way to the GND bus is correct, and those are nicely routed and tidy against the back of the box as they should be.

Yes, aught-gauge aluminum is a dicksore to work with.

mnem
 

Agreed. Typical well sorted breaker panel. I see four 240V circuits. 2 A/C units, stove, dryer? Also four GFCI protected 120V circuits which is NOT typical in older installs. Would typically be either 15A or 20A standard breaker with a GFCI outlet downstream.

[Anthocyanina]

You forgot to post the pic !!!     Yes it's TEA stuff, you are definitely at the right place...

BEWARE : the P2220 probe is designed to work only on a very limited range of Tek scopes !

See Tek's website there :   https://www.tek.com/en/datasheet/passive-voltage-probe-1x-10x

Meant for use only with the following Tek scopes :

The P2220 probe is compatible with TDS200, TDS1000, TDS1000B, TDS2000, TDS2000B, and TPS2000 Series oscilloscopes.

How do I know ? Well I was in your very position a year ago and nearly made the same mistake you were about to make... like you I asked on here and people saved my wallet ! 

So since you said you don't even need more probes.... I guess it's best to keep your money and not buy them !   Instead, spend your 40 bucks on some piece of TE, an old DMM, some test leads, pliers, screw drivers, new tips for your soldering iron....

Other than the fact that the compensation range is rather limited, they look like standard 1x - 10x passive probe 

Yeah, same here... as long as it's a genuine Tek P2220 or P2221 probe, not the Chinesium ones sold under the same or similar-sounding name. Either  should work well with your 2465 or your 54645A up to their rated spec... and I'd def trust them to perform at higher than rated spec before I'd trust Chinesium cheapies to perform at their rated spec. 

What may not work is the automatic ratio selector, which I think these have. But for that price, who cares as long as they're geniune Tek?

mnem
 

I'll quote this one since all the related messages have been quoted there already  here's the picture the seller provided. they look like genuine tek probes, from how they are wrapped with a zip tie, the yellow thing, the color rings and the compensation screwdriver thing, and the general shape also looks ok. Not sure about that small paper written in chinese, but it mentions KEMA in what is readable, and that is a testing and certification company i think? so maybe that could be a legit tek papery thing. My oscilloscopes are a keysight 1102g, an owon 1022i and a rigol 1104z. Looking at the probes that came with the keysight, it seems the compensation range is about the same, 15-25 vs 15-30pf, would that matter for that oscilloscope? and the rigol ones are 5-29pf, the widest range, but the oscilloscope input is 13pf, (would a 15pf lower limit probe be ok? i guess i'll try later the keysight probes on the rigol to check that!)

Thank you!

[mnementh]

Looking at the documentation, it's hard to tell; the slip of paper in Japanese is not at all helpful either way. As you say, the shape of the probes looks right, as do the tags warning not to float the probe with TDS1000/2000 series scopes.

I use cheap 15-30 puff rated probes with my 2465s, my 54600A & my 54645A; the latter two are 1M/13pF rated inputs. They comp just fine, if a little close to the lower limit.

I'd probably take a $40 gamble on them, especially if they were local pickup and I could put hands & eyes on 'em IRL.

Anybody else have better knowledge than I?

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

[mansaxel]

What the... hell model of car have you got, then? I thought Volvo was supposed to be a premium brand, and they can't even fit tweeters to all doors and channels  Mine even has mid range and tweeters, woofer at the bottom, mid range in the middle and tweeters right at the top by the door latch. Only 4 pop rivets hold your woofer, did you get any distortion / vibration of the speaker chassis on deep bass as a result of tahat or are your speakers slightly smaller than most, mine had 6 rivets to secure it to the door skin. I should think you certainly notice the extra top end now?

This was, as noted, the bottom rung of the quality ladder. There were several equipment levels available above this; my older cars on the same platform dodid indeed have tweeters, also as noted. Buying a used car you can't be too picky with things like this; I was happy to get the 4WD, large Diesel, semi-leather upholstery version, with hitch and OEM roof rack bars, for a very good price, with a known service record.

The top end is indeed noticeable now!

[AVGresponding]

USA mains pics in my home



Two AC units are on...


Why four big ass cables starts here if two are tied together??


The amount of exposed conductor metal inside a metal case panel is disturbing to me.

when I will install my inverter.... those big ass cables (AWG0?) will be a bitch to work with...

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

[med6753]

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

What do you mean by "sleeve your cpc"?

Granted, the sparky who wired this panel could have been a little neater but there's nothing that I see that would make an inspector lose his lunch. I've seen horrific on Utube with some of the absolute shit shows that some UK sparky's have to unfuck.

Those exposed bus bars are neutral (ground). To make it easy to tie in the white (neutral) and ground. What's the issue with that? None that I see.

 

[mansaxel]

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

Yes, the exposed part is really bad.

Aluminium conductors give me the creeps. It's more of a respect thing; I know Al can be efficiently used in engineered solutions where due respect is being paid to its quirks including Al₂O₃ being an insulator, but in a home installation where hacks hack it, naaah.   

There's also 2 phases missing. 

[med6753]

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

Yes, the exposed part is really bad.

Aluminium conductors give me the creeps. It's more of a respect thing; I know Al can be efficiently used in engineered solutions where due respect is being paid to its quirks including Al₂O₃ being an insulator, but in a home installation where hacks hack it, naaah.   

There's also 2 phases missing. 

Aluminium is only used on the supplier feed to the breaker panel. All the secondary wiring is copper. 

[Robert763]

Update on my HP34401A with dodgy display.
Selller came right back and said OK to a refund. 

[Cubdriver]

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

Yes, the exposed part is really bad.

Aluminium conductors give me the creeps. It's more of a respect thing; I know Al can be efficiently used in engineered solutions where due respect is being paid to its quirks including Al₂O₃ being an insulator, but in a home installation where hacks hack it, naaah.   

There's also 2 phases missing. 

Aluminium is only used on the supplier feed to the breaker panel. All the secondary wiring is copper.

I went with copper all the way.  90 feet of 4/0 and 30 feet of 3/0 was a painful purchase back in 2012.  Don't even what to look to see what it would cost now. 



-Pat

[bd139]

Update on my HP34401A with dodgy display.
Selller came right back and said OK to a refund. 

Good to hear 

[Robert763]

That's pretty horrific... shows how much standards vary between countries. You better sleeve your cpc here or you're not passing inspection, and not have any conductor showing at the phase terminations.

And those exposed bus bars?   

Not sure which big ass cables you're referring to, but if it's the cpc, if you have a cable with more conductors than is functionally necessary, you connect the unused conductors to earth here. Floating (potential) conductors are a no-no.

What do you mean by "sleeve your cpc"?

Granted, the sparky who wired this panel could have been a little neater but there's nothing that I see that would make an inspector lose his lunch. I've seen horrific on Utube with some of the absolute shit shows that some UK sparky's have to unfuck.

Those exposed bus bars are neutral (ground). To make it easy to tie in the white (neutral) and ground. What's the issue with that? None that I see.

 

1/ The large bare CPC "Earth" conductor appers to be tinned copper not aluminiun (look at the end near the terminal)
2/ The big issue is the exposed phase teminals. Especially the input to the main (200A) isolator. Even inside a metal box, in the UK these would have to be enclosed in insulation except for cable entry and screw access. a finger should not be aple to touch them accidentally.  see pic of UK one.
3/ The two large wires connected together are the CPC (earth) and Netural. A connection which according to some does not exist.

[exor]

Stupid question for the gang.
If a water electro-valve spec is 24VAC, can I use VDC to control it?
If yes at what voltage DC current?

Yes I am a little embarrassed to ask....

At least you should use lower voltage. It will blow the controlling I/O output, power supply fuse or burn the valve coil if you use 24VDC. One tested this in our plant with 24 VAC contactor..

[med6753]

3/ The two large wires connected together are the CPC (earth) and Netural. A connection which according to some does not exist.

In our split phase system it has to exist or very bad things will happen. 

[med6753]

Later today there will be a mad man working in his garage brushing up on his complete lack of metalworking skills.

Wish me luck. 

[bd139]

Later today there will be a mad man working in his garage brushing up on his complete lack of metalworking skills.

Wish me luck. 

[med6753]

Later today there will be a mad man working in his garage brushing up on his complete lack of metalworking skills.

Wish me luck. 

LMAO. My results may not be all that different. 

[mansaxel]

1/ The large bare CPC "Earth" conductor appers to be tinned copper not aluminiun (look at the end near the terminal)
2/ The big issue is the exposed phase teminals. Especially the input to the main (200A) isolator. Even inside a metal box, in the UK these would have to be enclosed in insulation except for cable entry and screw access. a finger should not be aple to touch them accidentally.  see pic of UK one.
3/ The two large wires connected together are the CPC (earth) and Netural. A connection which according to some does not exist.

On '3', yes it does (in most systems) exist. But, it happens in different places depending on which model has been chosen.

In 3-phase systems, the transformer secondary normally is wired in Y mode, with one end of the windings commoned. This point is grounded. At the transformer. 

From this point a PE (green/yellow or uninsulated sheath) conductor is required to the supply interface / meter board, bringing 4 conductors to the consumer, who then is entitled to put Δ loads (like induction motors) on it. The PE conductor must not carry current. 

To allow for non-Δ loads, the PE conductor can be slightly uprated and additionally marked blue, making it a PEN connector. Still 4 wires.  The customer is now responsible for branching the PEN into PE and N, after which point they must never meet again. The branching normally happens in the first breaker panel after the meter board.  In large low-voltage (below 1KV) installations with a hierarchy of breaker panels, it is common for the cables from main panel to sub panels to be 3 phases plus PEN.

Mostly to minimise interference, many newer systems are made in 5-conductor mode, which basically moves the branch point further upstream. But there is a branch point, nevertheless.

The Edison technical debt looms large over the poor continent, is all I can say on the matter. But it is my understanding that the center tap on the transformer for a 240CT system needs to be grounded to give at least a semblance of protection. Therefore, in a 4-conductor cable, two wires indeed should be commoned. It would have been much, much better to carry even the puny 208V three-phase plus PEN through that cable. The North American HV net usually is 3-phase pretty far out in the branches so "all" that's technically required is a better transformer, but that would require sparkies to forego habit. And "some" rewiring.

[McBryce]

Oooo.... Parcel of non-announced hollow-state TE just arrived

McBryce.

Wow, a boat anchor !! 

Didn't know you were into that sort of stuff, your picture shows only modern solid state stuff, got mistaken my bad.

But your lab looks so short on space, where are you going to put this huge piece of vintage TE ?! 

Maybe hang it from the ceiling ?! 

But that's your problem not mine, all I care about is to see what's in the box !!! 

A Tek 547 ?! 

Open up the box quick,  will you !!! 

A mini-boat anchor... It was very well packed and arrived in perfect condition. Here's a first peek at the back of it... Anyone like to guess what it is?

McBryce.

[bd139]

HP 412A

(quick edit there to remove the wrong meter  )

[McBryce]

HP 412A

(quick edit there to remove the wrong meter  )

Well that didn't take long. You win a picture of the glassware...

McBryce.

Edit: Picture of the "messy side" with it's bulb-powered Synchron.

 

[bd139]

HP 412A

(quick edit there to remove the wrong meter  )

Well that didn't take long. You win a picture of the glassware...

McBryce.

Thank you 

Ooh Sprague Black Beauties.

[Andrew_Debbie]

I let my Racal Dana 1998  and OXCO module run for a day.   Over several hours drift was at most  +1/-0 digit.   I'm going to let it run another 24 hours.   

The bad news is heat soaking the 1998 killed the all-important function buttons.     It is almost permently stuck on FREQ A.   


Anyone have a link to replacing the buttons / spare parts / whatever.   I know this is a common failure.    I'm sure it is on EEVBlog somewhere.  I vaugely remember an offer to give me or sell me  a good spare.  Can't remember who or where.