Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

HP SCOPE


Zoom zoom ZOOOOOM !!!

OK so as planned, today I RTFM a bit and explored Megazoom land.
Pulled my Metrix MX554 bench DMM to put it on the bench next to the scope, so I could fiddle with its rear end, hum, DB25 serial port connector, that is.

It's the perfect candidate for this demonstration... a short burst of digital content when you press "Print" on the front panel to send out the current reading, low speed, as well as a real world example. Just perfect example.

See piccies below. First I adjusted the sweep speed to fit the burst completely on the screen, and that's 10ms / DIV.
Then measured its length with the cursors. It's about 66ms.

According to the DMM manual, the baud rate on this thing is fixed, it's 2400Baud. So that's a bit time of about, almost, 417us.
So that means we have about 160 bits in that burst.

So then I started to zoom in on the signal, to see when it would start to look degraded/segmented... but I zoomed and zoomed and it would still look like a nice square signal.
So I kept zooming to see if I could zoom enough to display a single bit across the screen and measure / verify the bit time.
Well see pic, sure enough you can  ! Not only that, but far from running out of steam, it even has the audacity of showing you details like the rising and falling edges, look !!!
You can start to distinguish the edges, it's starting to look like an analog signal now.  So I used the cursors again, to measure the bit time. I placed the cursors about half way into the edges, and bingo... 417us, spot on what we calculated ! 

So... can we zoom even more, and make the rising edge span the entire screen ?  See pic again... yes we can !!
Not only that, but look, it still looks like an analog waveform, not a bunch of straight lines ! But Vince, you say, are you foolish, gullible enough to believe that the scope actually has enough samples to draw such a nice smooth / realistic edge ?  It's just the (sin x)/x interpolation ! That thing would show you a nice smooth/curvy/ analoguy waveform even if had only 3 samples to work with !

To which I reply : NO ! 

As it turns out, this scope somehow does NOT even offer Sine interpolation ?! 
Only vectors / linear. Which means that as soon as you are getting low on samples, you immediately notice it of course, it just can't hide... PLUS you can turn off the interpolation altogether to display only individual dots representing each sample / data point. So I did that and yes, indeed there are plenty enough samples to zoom even more !

So then once I had the rising edge on the screen, I tried to do an automatic rise time measurement on it, see if that would work, manual said it should... and it does. Look, 4us...

So the burst was initially acquired at 10ms/DIV, then we zoomed to a single bit out of 160 and that was at 50us/DIV, so x200 zoom factor.
Then we zoomed even more to see the rising edge of that single bit, and that was at 2us... x 5000 zoom factor, and still looked nice / detailed ! 

So it's all truly incredible and fantastic. I just can't do that with my Tek TDS 544A despite it being much higher end and much faster and much higher sampling rate.
The TDS has only 50K memory, and even then it should be less, but there was a 50K "deep memory" option and my scope had it, phew.
If I capture a burst like this, and then try to zoom on it by modifying the speed sweep... it destroys the data, gone !
And once captured, I can't do automatic measurements on the waveform, from what I remember, so not very useful anyway.
So the best you can do is single shot the burst from the get go with the fast sweep, the "zoomed in" factor, then navigate it.. but that's it. You can't have an overview of the signal, and then zoom on it, or start zoomed in and then zoom out... as soon as you touch the time base knob it clears the screen 

So the Megazoom is incredible... it does simple useful things but things that you can not do with another scope, or even another HP non Megazoom, I guess.

The simple fact that once the burst / data is acquired, that you can be sure it won't get deleted, that it's there to stay, that you can zoom in and out on it, that you can make manual and automatic measurements on the acquired data, do all the "post processing" that you want on the data.... it's just heaven.


I am sold, I want the same with 32MB of memory and 10GS/s sampling ! 

Everyone should have a Megazoom in his lab, it brings only joy and happiness at the bench. 

I hope you liked this little experiment, I sure did ! 

I will post it on my YT channel : " EEVFrog ". Somehow " EEVBlog " was already taken, some Aussy bloke I gather, whatever 


OK I will try to go to bed before 3AM this time.... 01H46 now as, I will be strong, have decided I won't do anything anymore at the bench this evening...

   
 

[mnementh]

Looking for something constructive to do, I've been editing up some emojis for the "Adding Emojis Request" thread; the latest one derived directly from the Lady Heather icon.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/adding-emoji-to-the-existing-list/25/ 

Also got a couple really classy turds just for you, bd. 

               

mnem
A little pleasure... a little pain... it's all goood...

[Cerebus]

I'm curious as to how they plan to ship these:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314034213063  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314034213080

When I bought some glass measuring cylinders last year they came in a block of closed cell polythene foam with individual cutouts for each cylinder and another sheet of foam as a lid all in a heavyish cardboard slip case. Did they job, all arrived intact including the included 12" glass stirring rod.

[mnementh]

Yes, it is my understanding that these modules all contain software for various math functions (and the extra space in there is where the games are stored) as well as additional storage for waveforms. The difference between them is the additional I/O, whether RS-232 & Parallel port, GPIB, etc... and whatever FW/SW is needed to make that interface work...

Both Vince & myself have removed the module and found the easter egg/game still works without it. I'm sure I've posted this picture before of mine.   

As does the badger easter-egg in my 54645A. I believe you can actually have more than one game/toy depending on what's in the specific module you screw on the back.

mnem
 

Since the easter-egg on my 54645A is accessed by a different key combo than on the videos I've seen, I was hoping maybe some of the games were also stored on the Acquisition module, and by adding the module I might get a game too.

But sadly, no joy; the Tetris game is in the FW on my 54600A, and works without the Acquisition module; when I put it on my 54645A, no additional features appear except those for the Acquisition/Maths.  No changed options in the Factory Service Menu/Analog Menu/Jackal Menu either, as far as I can see.

Vince, if you're wondering what I'm talking about, there's a semi-hidden Factory Service menu on the 54645A/D (I haven't found it on the 54600A); IIRC, you should find the documentation in that CLIP package you downloaded.

mnem

[mnementh]

So the Megazoom is incredible... it does simple useful things but things that you can not do with another scope, or even another HP non Megazoom, I guess.

The simple fact that once the burst / data is acquired, that you can be sure it won't get deleted, that it's there to stay, that you can zoom in and out on it, that you can make manual and automatic measurements on the acquired data, do all the "post processing" that you want on the data.... it's just heaven.

I am sold, I want the same with 32MB of memory and 10GS/s sampling ! 

Everyone should have a Megazoom in his lab, it brings only joy and happiness at the bench. 

So now you understand why I was all "What. The. Actual. Fuck?!?"   that you passed on that 54622D for 50 quid because "Agilent! Yuckyputz!!!" then...?   

Yeah... Everything this scope has, but a generation newer ASIC and twice the memory depth.

I love mine... usually run it on AutoSample; half the time it knows what I'm looking for before I do. 

mnem
*currently nuking a 54600A*

[Vince]

Yes you were right... but that Agilent still looks effing ugly to me, plus it was yellowed and had broken or missing CRT  bezel keys, no thanks.

Zero regret for not buying it, but very happy I bought that beautiful, lovely, Gorgeous proper original HP one instead.

[Vince]

Yes, it is my understanding that these modules all contain software for various math functions (and the extra space in there is where the games are stored) as well as additional storage for waveforms. The difference between them is the additional I/O, whether RS-232 & Parallel port, GPIB, etc... and whatever FW/SW is needed to make that interface work...

Both Vince & myself have removed the module and found the easter egg/game still works without it. I'm sure I've posted this picture before of mine.   

As does the badger easter-egg in my 54645A. I believe you can actually have more than one game/toy depending on what's in the specific module you screw on the back.

mnem
 

Since the easter-egg on my 54645A is accessed by a different key combo than on the videos I've seen, I was hoping maybe some of the games were also stored on the Acquisition module, and by adding the module I might get a game too.

But sadly, no joy; the Tetris game is in the FW on my 54600A, and works without the Acquisition module; when I put it on my 54645A, no additional features appear except those for the Acquisition/Maths.  No changed options in the Factory Service Menu/Analog Menu/Jackal Menu either, as far as I can see.

Vince, if you're wondering what I'm talking about, there's a semi-hidden Factory Service menu on the 54645A/D (I haven't found it on the 54600A); IIRC, you should find the documentation in that CLIP package you downloaded.

mnem

There is zero informaion in that CLIP package ?! 
Just 109 jigsaw photographs of the schematics, that is all.

[mnementh]

Hmmm... I thought it was one of the items in the PAGES folder on the CLIP.

I'll look into it; I know there's documentation I've seen on it somewhere. Futch.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Yes you were right... but that Agilent still looks effing ugly to me, plus it was yellowed and had broken or missing CRT  bezel keys, no thanks.

Zero regret for not buying it, but very happy I bought that beautiful, lovely, Gorgeous proper original HP one instead.

A THOUSAND LASHES WITH A WET NOODLE! 

Haven't you learned where you are yet, Vince...? The only correct answer is "Of course, I want BOTH!"

mnem
There is no such thing as too many oscilloscopes.

[Vince]

Hmmm... I thought it was one of the items in the PAGES folder on the CLIP.

I'll look into it; I know there's documentation I've seen on it somewhere. Futch.

mnem
 

Ah, these pages ! I thought you meant maybe a dedicated PDF manual or something...

Well nothing in the "pages" either. At least on my end, all they contain are the parts list, and board views.

[Vince]

Yes you were right... but that Agilent still looks effing ugly to me, plus it was yellowed and had broken or missing CRT  bezel keys, no thanks.

Zero regret for not buying it, but very happy I bought that beautiful, lovely, Gorgeous proper original HP one instead.

A THOUSAND LASHES WITH A WET NOODLE! 

Haven't you learned where you are yet, Vince...? The only correct answer is "Of course, I want BOTH!"

mnem
There is no such thing as too many oscilloscopes.

That's what I USED to think... but I have now 40/45 scopes and I am starting to change my mind.... lack of storage space mainly.

I want a few more scope models or brands I have not yet, sure but.... I have now decided that every new scope will  only be allowed if I get rid of an existing one, constant sum.
IOW I am getting more and more critical about my TE. I don't just buy the first vaguely interesting thing. I need to really want it.
I also try to diversify my TE to other types of TE than just scopes.. so for every new TE that comes in, a scope must go in the process.

I am trying to become half reasonable in my TE delirium...not saying it's easy, but I am trying....

[srb1954]

There is no such thing as too many oscilloscopes.

That's what I USED to think... but I have now 40/45 scopes and I am starting to change my mind.... lack of storage space mainly.

Then you need to buy a lot more storage scopes

[mnementh]

       *grooooooannnnnn*

mnem
*Lobs 17 soggy ol' boots (no more, no less) towards Kiwiland*

[mnementh]

Futch...

mnem
 

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

[Cubdriver]

Very loooooong (but also very rewarding) day today - one that had been in the making for at least three years now..  Several years ago I met a gentleman at a swap meet who, when he learned I collect old test gear and have a special affinity for nixie counters, told me he had a pair of old 524s in his basement that he wanted to give me.  I repeatedly offered to pay him something, anything for them, but he refused, just wanting them to go to a good home.  Between work travel and weather, the meetup never happened that first year, but we kept in touch.  Planned something after my early 2020 trip out west, but then of course the Coof hit and put the kibosh on everything for 2020 and 2021.  After things dried out this spring he was finally able to get them out of his basement and loaded into his car, so today I made a 330 mile (~530 km) round trip up to New Hampshire and retrieved them.

The 524B is from the 50s (pre 1960 format serial number), and I'm not sure yet the vintage of the 524C - I think the tag is inside the enclosure on the frame of the instrument.  Crappy iPhone pics will have to suffice for now; I'm barely upright at this point.

524B:


524C:


And as a special surprise, he found something else in his basement and decided to bring it along because he "thought I might like it" - a Non-Linear Systems Model 64 DVM - woo-hoo!


He also brought along a giant old Rohde & Schwarz spec an for me as well; it too looks like late 50s/early 60s vintage and is heavy enough it could have anchored the Prinz Eugen.  No pic of that at the moment as it's currently at the bottom of the counter stack and facing the wrong way.

The NLS meter is the first that's going on the bench for exploration mainly because it's the easiest for me to move - the counters weigh in at about 110 lbs (~50 kg), and I've already abused my back enough for the moment getting them out of my friend's pickup truck and into the garage.  Now time for a shower and a fall into bed.

-Pat

[Robert763]

Very loooooong (but also very rewarding) day today - one that had been in the making for at least three years now..  Several years ago I met a gentleman at a swap meet who, when he learned I collect old test gear and have a special affinity for nixie counters, told me he had a pair of old 524s in his basement that he wanted to give me.  I repeatedly offered to pay him something, anything for them, but he refused, just wanting them to go to a good home.  Between work travel and weather, the meetup never happened that first year, but we kept in touch.  Planned something after my early 2020 trip out west, but then of course the Coof hit and put the kibosh on everything for 2020 and 2021.  After things dried out this spring he was finally able to get them out of his basement and loaded into his car, so today I made a 330 mile (~530 km) round trip up to New Hampshire and retrieved them.

The 524B is from the 50s (pre 1960 format serial number), and I'm not sure yet the vintage of the 524C - I think the tag is inside the enclosure on the frame of the instrument.  Crappy iPhone pics will have to suffice for now; I'm barely upright at this point.

524B:


524C:


And as a special surprise, he found something else in his basement and decided to bring it along because he "thought I might like it" - a Non-Linear Systems Model 64 DVM - woo-hoo!


He also brought along a giant old Rohde & Schwarz spec an for me as well; it too looks like late 50s/early 60s vintage and is heavy enough it could have anchored the Prinz Eugen.  No pic of that at the moment as it's currently at the bottom of the counter stack and facing the wrong way.

The NLS meter is the first that's going on the bench for exploration mainly because it's the easiest for me to move - the counters weigh in at about 110 lbs (~50 kg), and I've already abused my back enough for the moment getting them out of my friend's pickup truck and into the garage.  Now time for a shower and a fall into bed.

-Pat

Very nice, well worth waiting for.
Is the S&S unit a SWOB Polyscope? That is a early form of network analyser rather than a spectrum analyser.

[Saskia]

ok, undid the Gorilla hole kicker fumble on the Roadshow and mounted a nice hole protector (ultra thin stainless steel). Swapped out the switched lamps for LEDs, Still need to swap the GI lamps for LEDs (this actually protects the connectors and the playfield due to less heat dissipation and less power draw, so the fix is not optional ...). Also 2 plastics are broken and need replacement. But still, it is playable as the playfield erosion has been halted. A proper fix would be to use 2 component wood replacement, strip the playfield, then do a 12 layer PU coat and fix the damaged areas using air brush. Then reassemble. This would be a 100 - 200 hours job and I am not ready to do that.
Once the pin is due for a complete overhaul I just might be considering a spare / replacement playfield, thus saving myself a ton of grief.

[Saskia]

ah yes, for those who are interested in the details ...
Try to locate the fubar 



helping you out ...

(you don't just screw stuff into the playfield ... fixing that kind of damage is an incredible amount of work.

[med6753]

Pat, that is one hell of a score! 

[bd139]

Futch...

mnem
 

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

Oh look a cracked front panel. Seen that before 

Why the fuck did they use FR2 for those panels I don't know 

Edit: here's a picture of what happens if the right bit of the panel goes open circuit:



diode to deadode transition...

[Specmaster]

Futch...

mnem
 

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

Oh look a cracked front panel. Seen that before 

Why the fuck did they use FR2 for those panels I don't know 

Edit: here's a picture of what happens if the right bit of the panel goes open circuit:



diode to deadode transition...

Luckily, not terminal, nothing a clipped off leg soldered along the track can't cure. Also the button contact pads are also restorable, IIRC there is some conductive gold paint that can used to solve that issue, I seem to recall seeing a video years ago with a scope that had both a cracked board and dodgy menu buttons on the small PCB that ran along under the screen that was repaired using that method. Thought it was one of Simon Spiers, but a quick look through his catalogue didn't reveal it to me.

[bd139]

I just bridged it with 2x 1n4148's. Worked 

[Vince]

Very loooooong (but also very rewarding) day today - one that had been in the making for at least three years now..  Several years ago I met a gentleman at a swap meet who, when he learned I collect old test gear and have a special affinity for nixie counters, told me he had a pair of old 524s in his basement that he wanted to give me.  I repeatedly offered to pay him something, anything for them, but he refused, just wanting them to go to a good home.  Between work travel and weather, the meetup never happened that first year, but we kept in touch.  Planned something after my early 2020 trip out west, but then of course the Coof hit and put the kibosh on everything for 2020 and 2021.  After things dried out this spring he was finally able to get them out of his basement and loaded into his car, so today I made a 330 mile (~530 km) round trip up to New Hampshire and retrieved them.

The 524B is from the 50s (pre 1960 format serial number), and I'm not sure yet the vintage of the 524C - I think the tag is inside the enclosure on the frame of the instrument.  Crappy iPhone pics will have to suffice for now; I'm barely upright at this point.

524B:


524C:


-Pat

Wow that's one hell of a beautiful boat anchor(s), in tip top cosmetic shape as well, incredible !
I am used to moving around my glowing Tek scopes and am a big guy, but these counters are in a new league even I would be afraid of !
I guess I would just get a small cheap engine hoist to lift them and move them around...

Hopefully we will see piccies of the inside and report of the restoration....

The older 524B is my favorite, looks so beautiful.

[bd139]

That’s definitely the best HP aesthetic era. The 606 sig gen was my favourite from around there. Would love to get my hands on one.

https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/timeline/art_fong/hp606_01.htm


Also random really good and still really applicable video. Wish they made stuff like this now rather than the YouTube trash you get these days:

[TERRA Operative]

Those HP front panel PCB's are practically begging for someone to recreate them so replacements can be ordered from the friendly neighbourhood Chinese PCB fab....

If I had a front panel, I'd do it just for the fun of it. Alas, I'm a Tektronix whore. No HP scopes in my inventory.

(I can supply gerbers to replace the flat-flex pcb used to connect the pots on the front panels in the Tek 24xx series scopes however)