Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16909362 times)

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Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123025 on: June 16, 2022, 12:18:57 am »
HP SCOPE

Some more... now the I/O Module at the back !  8)

Cracked it open.

There are 5 tantalum caps in there...


... and two NVRAM chips, because one is not enough.


There is the usual one made by Dallas, P/N  DS1244Y-120

The other one is made by ST, P/N  M48Z128Y-120PM1

I guess I could download their datasheet, see which pin if any, gives access to the internal battyery voltage, so I can measure it and get a feel for just how scared I should be....

OK that's it for to "day".. soon 2AM, going to bed.  :=\

More HP fun tomorrow of course, that goes without saying !!!  >:D

Don't like it ? Too bad, it's TE, it's on topic, so you can't complain, sorry !  :-DD


nvram from 1998.  could last a couple more years.  or could go tits up tomorrow.

you a gamblin' man vince?
free range primate
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123026 on: June 16, 2022, 12:29:07 am »
@Vince, I'm glad that you're seeing just how good that scope is, but please don't run away with the idea that you have just entered the modern era now you have that, you already had an extremely capable scope with your Phillips/Fluke combiscope. Both the HP and the combiscope are digital and very good scopes, so you are well setup in that Dept now.  :-+

Oh yes the combiscope is going nowhere, UI sucks but it's an excellent scope I love very much, good features (even more automatic measurements than the HP), and the ability to switch between analog and digital and back, at the touch of a button, is priceless. 200MHz 4 channel and 50ohm switchable inputs, It's still remaining my go to scope for sure..... and the HP will be sitting I think right next to it ! I have TWO daily drivers now, can't believe I would ever say that one day ! >:D
HP for the Megazoom / deep memory and LA features of course... it takes only 10 seconds to boot up and is pretty quiet, so it makes it possible to fire it up on a whim any time I find it more suited to the job than the Combiscope.

Wow, two nice daily drivers, life is good !!!   :D



 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123027 on: June 16, 2022, 12:32:11 am »
HP SCOPE

Some more... now the I/O Module at the back !  8)

Cracked it open.

There are 5 tantalum caps in there...


... and two NVRAM chips, because one is not enough.


There is the usual one made by Dallas, P/N  DS1244Y-120

The other one is made by ST, P/N  M48Z128Y-120PM1

I guess I could download their datasheet, see which pin if any, gives access to the internal battyery voltage, so I can measure it and get a feel for just how scared I should be....

OK that's it for to "day".. soon 2AM, going to bed.  :=\

More HP fun tomorrow of course, that goes without saying !!!  >:D

Don't like it ? Too bad, it's TE, it's on topic, so you can't complain, sorry !  :-DD


nvram from 1998.  could last a couple more years.  or could go tits up tomorrow.

you a gamblin' man vince?

No not at all, I have never ever bought a lottery ticket !
Not gambling at all.... but completely broke and totally unable to computerize the lab and buy a memory programmer.... YES INDEED !

So gambling or not is irrelevant... I just cannot, right now, back these up, nor any of my other numerous TE that are in the same situation.
So it's high on my priority list... but the list is long and money is non existent, so... I can't do miracles.  :-//

 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123028 on: June 16, 2022, 12:34:10 am »
Vince no kidding, if I had those knobs I'd mail them to you. I'll keep a lookout over here on Ebay.  :-+
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123029 on: June 16, 2022, 12:42:29 am »
HP SCOPE

Some more... now the I/O Module at the back !  8)

Cracked it open.

There are 5 tantalum caps in there...


... and two NVRAM chips, because one is not enough.


There is the usual one made by Dallas, P/N  DS1244Y-120

The other one is made by ST, P/N  M48Z128Y-120PM1

I guess I could download their datasheet, see which pin if any, gives access to the internal battyery voltage, so I can measure it and get a feel for just how scared I should be....

OK that's it for to "day".. soon 2AM, going to bed.  :=\

More HP fun tomorrow of course, that goes without saying !!!  >:D

Don't like it ? Too bad, it's TE, it's on topic, so you can't complain, sorry !  :-DD


nvram from 1998.  could last a couple more years.  or could go tits up tomorrow.

you a gamblin' man vince?

No not at all, I have never ever bought a lottery ticket !
Not gambling at all.... but completely broke and totally unable to computerize the lab and buy a memory programmer.... YES INDEED !

So gambling or not is irrelevant... I just cannot, right now, back these up, nor any of my other numerous TE that are in the same situation.
So it's high on my priority list... but the list is long and money is non existent, so... I can't do miracles.  :-//


"Can you Measure the Battery Voltage of an NV SRAM?
With the exception of PowerCaps with exposed battery contacts, it is not possible to directly measure the voltage of the NV SRAM battery."

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/2/202.html
free range primate
 
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123030 on: June 16, 2022, 12:53:57 am »
Following the advice from TERRA, I disassembled the keyboard. Firstly, I must say that the HP engineers who designed this were geniuses. You can take apart the keyboard without touching anything else of the instrument! I at first didn't realize this, but when seeing I had to disconnect the attenuator, I used my brain a little bit and read the whole service manual before commiting any massacres.

Secondly, unfortunately I can not clean the keys. They are not the "plain" metal strip type showed in the video, instead they are actually curved in the end. Using the other keyboard as a guinepig, I tried to dismantle and put together a switch and actually managed to break it off from the board. Also, even though now it seems like it is correct, it isn't, it doesn't "jump back". No matter how many times I've tried it, I've had no luck. It probably needs more dexterity than I have. And by the way, the second board is absolutely busted. It has very visible corrosion damage everywhere and rust is apparent... It seems like eBay kind of lied to the previous owner.

Fortunately, by applying contact cleaner and cleaning all the residue off the board the situation seems to improve quite a bit. Most keys are actually responsive now, but some (the increment button and some number keys) still seem to need some, uhm, convincing. In spite of that now the instrument is actually useable without frustration!! I've also tested modulation and everything works great.

Finally, I also made "the final stack". I like how you can kind of see the evolution from the 8565 and 55, to the 56, to the 01. And then the Siglent might be feeling a bit out of place  :-DD

Your switches are the same as in my video. There was only ever one type of 'Bill West' switch.

Try not to remove the button tops if you don't need to, they can sometimes get quite stuck, if you do need to remove them for access to the switch, lift it straight up with a slight wiggle while pressing down on the red part of the switch, they can be quite stiff sometimes.
Then, you need to flick the flat spring out of the red base with the pointy end of some tweezers, withdraw it from the switch body then flip it upside down, end to end longways (not side to side) and carefully reinstall it, making sure it seats in properly. Practice makes perfect....
If the spring is more than a tiny (barely perceptibly) bent, flatten it GENTLY! with a fingernail like you are curling a ribbon.
Then put a tiny (!!) bit of plastic safe grease on the sides of the white plunger (I use grease in a syringe) and work it into the switch by operating the switch a number of times.

If you have contact problems, a blast with deoxit will get it working right again. Cleaning the switches can be achieved by washing with isopropyl alcohol.

If you break a switch off the board, you can just superglue (a tiny bit of glue!) it back down, they only experience downward force, no lateral forces at all, so the superglue is fine to hold it to the PCB.

If you need to replace a switch, simply cut the mushroomed plastic off the two posts protruding through to the back of the PCB and pull the switch out.
To reinstall, stick the replacement switch in place and put a drop of superglue on each post where you cut the plastic off before. Follow with a tiny bit of superglue accelerant to set it and you are done.
If you are using a brand-new replacement switch, use a soldering iron set to an appropriate temperature to peen over the plastic as per the other switches.

There is a document about these switches floating around, but they were never a user replaceable part (you were supposed to send your machine in for HP to replace broken switches), hence the lack of NOS switch assemblies, they command a ridiculous price (I've seen them around $50 A PIECE!) as they were never sold to the 'public'.
So on the rare event that I scrap a HP bit of gear with these switches, I always keep them for future use.


Here's the patent for some nice diagrams etc:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4017700
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123031 on: June 16, 2022, 01:02:16 am »
Vince no kidding, if I had those knobs I'd mail them to you. I'll keep a lookout over here on Ebay.  :-+

Hold on ! I might have found knobs...a generous TEA donator..... can't give names... stay tuned...

 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123032 on: June 16, 2022, 01:12:56 am »
HP SCOPE

Some more... now the I/O Module at the back !  8)

Cracked it open.

There are 5 tantalum caps in there...


... and two NVRAM chips, because one is not enough.


There is the usual one made by Dallas, P/N  DS1244Y-120

The other one is made by ST, P/N  M48Z128Y-120PM1

I guess I could download their datasheet, see which pin if any, gives access to the internal battyery voltage, so I can measure it and get a feel for just how scared I should be....

OK that's it for to "day".. soon 2AM, going to bed.  :=\

More HP fun tomorrow of course, that goes without saying !!!  >:D

Don't like it ? Too bad, it's TE, it's on topic, so you can't complain, sorry !  :-DD


nvram from 1998.  could last a couple more years.  or could go tits up tomorrow.

you a gamblin' man vince?

No not at all, I have never ever bought a lottery ticket !
Not gambling at all.... but completely broke and totally unable to computerize the lab and buy a memory programmer.... YES INDEED !

So gambling or not is irrelevant... I just cannot, right now, back these up, nor any of my other numerous TE that are in the same situation.
So it's high on my priority list... but the list is long and money is non existent, so... I can't do miracles.  :-//


"Can you Measure the Battery Voltage of an NV SRAM?
With the exception of PowerCaps with exposed battery contacts, it is not possible to directly measure the voltage of the NV SRAM battery."

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/2/202.html

Yep. Just downloaded the datasheet for both NVRAM chips... no access to the internal battery voltage, only the Vcc pin that's all  :(

the Dallas chip is 32KB and also contains a RTC. The ST chip is 16KB is just a RAM.

So total we have 48KB of RAM. But where is the F/W stored, that implements all the extra features ? No EPROM on the board, strange...
I see a chip that might be a micro-controller, so I thought maybe it holds the F/W... it's SCN2661, found the datasheet... oh no, no MCU, just a standalone UART controller to drve the serial port...

So... that means the F/W is stored in RAM ?!!  :wtf:  How evil , twisted do you have to be to do that ! :scared:
So when the batteries go, I don't just lose the user data/ waveforms stored in the RAM, I also lose the brains of the module, it bricks it ! :horse:

Wow... I am truly amazed and shocked....  :(

Luckily I I guess the HPAK guys must have already backed up their NVRAM and the dump is avaialble for download on their forum/website...

Still, wanna backup my own stuff of course, but I now realize I need even more than a computer and programmer.... need proper soldering gear as well ! All those pins, in tiny round pads, and double sided board as well... I simply do not have the gear to remove these chips without causing severe damage to both the chips and the board !  :scared:
I need at the least a desoldering gun and/or a decent hot air station to heat up all the pins at once and pull the chip. So more money involved... meaning it will take even more time before I can afford the gear. Hoping the module will be kind enough that long.... And it's freaking 3H13, was supposed to be in bed wasn't I !!  :palm:
 

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123033 on: June 16, 2022, 02:27:11 am »
HP SCOPE

Some more... now the I/O Module at the back !  8)

Cracked it open.

There are 5 tantalum caps in there...


... and two NVRAM chips, because one is not enough.


There is the usual one made by Dallas, P/N  DS1244Y-120

The other one is made by ST, P/N  M48Z128Y-120PM1

I guess I could download their datasheet, see which pin if any, gives access to the internal battyery voltage, so I can measure it and get a feel for just how scared I should be....

OK that's it for to "day".. soon 2AM, going to bed.  :=\

More HP fun tomorrow of course, that goes without saying !!!  >:D

Don't like it ? Too bad, it's TE, it's on topic, so you can't complain, sorry !  :-DD


nvram from 1998.  could last a couple more years.  or could go tits up tomorrow.

you a gamblin' man vince?

No not at all, I have never ever bought a lottery ticket !
Not gambling at all.... but completely broke and totally unable to computerize the lab and buy a memory programmer.... YES INDEED !

So gambling or not is irrelevant... I just cannot, right now, back these up, nor any of my other numerous TE that are in the same situation.
So it's high on my priority list... but the list is long and money is non existent, so... I can't do miracles.  :-//


"Can you Measure the Battery Voltage of an NV SRAM?
With the exception of PowerCaps with exposed battery contacts, it is not possible to directly measure the voltage of the NV SRAM battery."

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/2/202.html

Yep. Just downloaded the datasheet for both NVRAM chips... no access to the internal battery voltage, only the Vcc pin that's all  :(

the Dallas chip is 32KB and also contains a RTC. The ST chip is 16KB is just a RAM.

So total we have 48KB of RAM. But where is the F/W stored, that implements all the extra features ? No EPROM on the board, strange...
I see a chip that might be a micro-controller, so I thought maybe it holds the F/W... it's SCN2661, found the datasheet... oh no, no MCU, just a standalone UART controller to drve the serial port...

So... that means the F/W is stored in RAM ?!!  :wtf:  How evil , twisted do you have to be to do that ! :scared:
So when the batteries go, I don't just lose the user data/ waveforms stored in the RAM, I also lose the brains of the module, it bricks it ! :horse:

Wow... I am truly amazed and shocked....  :(

Luckily I I guess the HPAK guys must have already backed up their NVRAM and the dump is avaialble for download on their forum/website...

Still, wanna backup my own stuff of course, but I now realize I need even more than a computer and programmer.... need proper soldering gear as well ! All those pins, in tiny round pads, and double sided board as well... I simply do not have the gear to remove these chips without causing severe damage to both the chips and the board !  :scared:
I need at the least a desoldering gun and/or a decent hot air station to heat up all the pins at once and pull the chip. So more money involved... meaning it will take even more time before I can afford the gear. Hoping the module will be kind enough that long.... And it's freaking 3H13, was supposed to be in bed wasn't I !!  :palm:


am a certified nervous nelly........and that is probably why dallas nvram on my motherboards always get replaced right away with a coin cell, battery controller chip, and standard sram (have done 54502,54504,54601, and 54622).  then you follow the calibration procedure in the manual and bada bing.  you are good for years.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-54601a-nvram-substitute/

but replacing the nvram in the rear i/o module seemed like a surefire failure for a fumble fingered idiot like me.  that is why my rear modules still contain nvram date coded 1992 ticking away inside.  AND it bothers me.

so i apologize for nagging about your interface module without having had the balls or skills to fix mine first. 
free range primate
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123034 on: June 16, 2022, 02:30:57 am »
..................And it's was freaking 3H13, was supposed to be in bed wasn't I !!  :palm:
Piss off to bed Vince and get some  :=\ as you're getting too old for all nighters, trust me I know.
C'mon, your precious new HPAK will still be there when you awake.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123035 on: June 16, 2022, 02:38:23 am »
OMG Vince you are giving me flashbacks to when I actually had a job I gave a shit about  :-DD (had the same kit at it)

I just took a peek at eBay.uk... they're fucking high on crack for any of this family right now. A bust-ass from AllTest is still cheaper by several hundred.  :palm:

I thought there was a semi-reasonable one here for 200 quid OBO: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164553009610

But looking closer, that's 200 quid to rent the thing for a month, and they expect you to produce 2000 quid insurance.  :o

mnem
So... just a different kind of high on crack... :-DD
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123036 on: June 16, 2022, 02:47:04 am »
...Wow, two nice daily drivers, life is good !!!   :D



...for badgering you until you saw the light. ;)

mnem
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 02:51:12 am by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123037 on: June 16, 2022, 02:58:32 am »
Remember this, bd...?    >:D

TBH I did have a company car for a bit and that did have air con. As is duty with a company car, I ragged the shit out of it and drove around with it in freezing my balls off mode while wearing a fleece in the middle of summer  :-DD

Anyway back to TEA. Now due to decent upload bandwidth we have videos of new toys as well as photos!

HP 54645D stuffs...

Firstly some kindling if the world turns to shit, an actual piece of gear that came with the manual/service info. Service info is module level though but there is some diagnostic info in it. I have the schematics for this unit actually, available here if anyone wants them (383 megs!): https://archive.org/details/HP54645NCLIPImgs ... note typical 1990s design and photography before the Chinese sucked all the class out of typefaces with serifs.



Money shot:



Genuine HP probes and documentation bag in 1990s browny grey:



MegaZoom! Note the RS232 / printer pack. There's a good old Centronics connector and RS232 port on the back. You can talk to the scope via SCPI and control literally everything on it and take screenshots etc. The Centronics port will plug into an HP Laserjet and allow you to print out hardcopies. Awesome. Need a LaserJet 4 now (any excuse!)



Now for some HD porn:

Built in Easter Egg and engineering credits. There's a game too but I didn't run that.

https://www.youtube.com/nC_fEPRal4Q

Measurin' shit:

https://www.youtube.com/A1FFM3BMLl0

Single capture MegaZoom example. Pretty good! Much better than the 2k in the earlier 54600's and a lot of Tektronix scopes even up until recent times  |O

https://www.youtube.com/ZX7WdWKXCx8

Money well spent. Now to find some probes!

Edit: the background noise is not the scope. I have an HP DL380 g9 going in the background :D

Edit 2: From the CLIP schematics:



Edit 3: Basically the whole thing is a 68k CPU, TMS320C50 DSP and a boat load of RAM.

A shame those happy videos went tits up. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123038 on: June 16, 2022, 03:02:09 am »
So who would like a "Tektronix 7603 Oscilloscope 7A18(2) and 7B53A" for £1. The picture shows a clean 7633 storage scope with 4 traces.

It is only 10 miles from bd, and will be easy to transport in a car.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-collectibles/tektronix-7603-oscilloscope-7a18-2-and-7b53a/1434985945

On it  :-DD

Once I’m off the bloody phone  :palm:
Its a big old boat anchor that you will also have to move to your new flat whenever that is.

That's not big----a 524AD is big!!
 
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123039 on: June 16, 2022, 04:39:10 am »

Sorry you got it backwards !  ;D

Bombardier don't do carbon A/C, only Boeing / 787 and Airbus / A350.

The Bombardier is a traditional aluminium A/C with composites here and there where it's not too difficult to do... just like the A320 has been doing for 33 years now, or private jets as well.
When we say a carbon A/C we mean that the big technological jump has been made to make the two major parts of the A/C 100% carbon : the entire fuselage, pressurized is carbon, and the center wing box which basically holds the entire A/C together and bears all the loads, is also 100% carbon.

That is where the big, super expensive R&D and industrial/manufacturing jump lies. Grafting bits of CFRP here and there to reduce weight is nothing new or special... been done for decades now. Full fuselage and CWB are the real deal.

Will Bombardier make the big switch to carbon one day ? Now that Airbus bought them, and if they intend to keep the brand under their wing in the long term (I think they are), then in order to protect their investment and ensure the long term commercial success of the ex C series / A220, they will have no choice but eventually cough the cash to R&D it to full carbon. Gonna cost a pretty penny to R&D, but it's the next logical step, it needs to be done. Luckily now that Airbus has the experience of the A350, it should be a bit easier and quicker/cheaper to apply that knowledge and experience to another A/C type. It's known territory for Airbus now.

Sorry Vince, they did already make the big switch.

The A220 (C-Series) fuselage is carbon, including the wing root.  The wing is carbon as well.
Okay okay, the manufacturing plant is really more of an assembly plant to put the chunks of carbon together.  Everyone works with partners these days.
I have been on the line to see it in person.

There is a lot that has changed in the last couple of years.

Bombardier sold everything that was prop to Viking.
Bombardier recently sold the remaining turboprop (Q400 series) to Longview.
Longview bought the name DeHavilland at the same time.
Oh by the way, Longview also owns Viking.
Last change was Longview changing its official name to DeHavilland.
Everything that was ever DeHavilland is now once again DeHavilland.

Bombardier discovered it was not easy doing carbon for the C-Series and almost went broke.
That is when they did the deal to partner with Airbus.  They managed to scrape together enough funds to get a new job partner and finish the project.
I assume it was so expensive that they had to put the latest Global project on hold while they finished up the C-Series.
Part of it was also USA politics; Airbus could assemble the A220 in their US plant as a domestic product to get around the Trump tarrifs..., unlike the Bombardier plant in Mirabel.

During the time of being almost broke, they sold the CRJ (Canadian Regional Jets) made of aluminum to Mitsubishi.
Now Mitsubishi has the MRJ made in Japan and the CRJ made in Canada.
Does Mitsubishi have a regional jet fetish?

What is left?  Not much.  The only thing Bombardier has now are business jets.
Yes, they did finish the Global 7500, which was put on hold during C-Series.
Global 7500 is also a carbon fuselage, wing root and wing tip aircraft.  I am not sure about the main wing span being carbon or aluminum.

Whew, that was a soap opera!
 
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123040 on: June 16, 2022, 04:45:18 am »
Are you looking specifically for these because super-clean power?

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/294822687771

For you or anyone looking for PSUs in this range... (0-60V @2A, +5V fixed @3A) I've been eyeballing this one from Alltest for a while, but just can't seem to make myself pull the trigger as I have so many such bricks, including my Lambdas. If HP quality isn't the primary concern, this might be a good one to look at; I'm not personally familiar with the brand, but a quick Gurrgle indicates it's considerably underpriced at $40 + S/H.

They also have a number of them that are much shinier and supposedly tested for $100 ea +S/H: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144419028066

mnem
*too juicy*

Hmmmm, those are some decent prices.  Shipping to the GWN will likely double the price.  However, the seller I still have plans to go see has some triple and quadruple output Xantrex PSUs, for approximately double the prices of the combined Alltest & shipping (ie. 4 times the AllTest price).
The advantage is the HPAK PSUs are reasonably priced, and I can do local pickup for most of what I want (the other bits are local pickup to my parents when I go visit).

*Note: my definition of local is more expensive/longer distance than most of you due to living out in the boonies.
 
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123041 on: June 16, 2022, 04:52:51 am »
.................
We will see what I come home with...

I will probably spend far more than what I made from selling off the tractor forklift attachment ...  :palm:
You did what ?  :wtf:  :scared:

How will you unload the ultra heavy boat anchors now ?  :-//

I know, I know, it was a sad day  :'(
I was not the owner of the New Holland tractor, which had already been sold off.
With no tractor, there was no practical use for keeping the attachment, except if I was to sell off all my TE, sports gear and more to buy my own tractor .... Nope, priorities!

I have my own delusion of grandeur that I can unload boat anchors on my own  :horse:
After all, I did load the forklift onto a trailer by myself.  Fine, I used a few pullies and some rope plus some prussic cords for a 9:1 pull ratio.
It was hard to get started loading and not very visible with the spring time growth of weeds around it.
Of course, after I got it on the trailer, I realized how to remove the tines and turn it into three separate pieces.  :palm:
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123042 on: June 16, 2022, 06:24:15 am »
Remember this, bd...?    >:D

TBH I did have a company car for a bit and that did have air con. As is duty with a company car, I ragged the shit out of it and drove around with it in freezing my balls off mode while wearing a fleece in the middle of summer  :-DD

Anyway back to TEA. Now due to decent upload bandwidth we have videos of new toys as well as photos!

HP 54645D stuffs...

Firstly some kindling if the world turns to shit, an actual piece of gear that came with the manual/service info. Service info is module level though but there is some diagnostic info in it. I have the schematics for this unit actually, available here if anyone wants them (383 megs!): https://archive.org/details/HP54645NCLIPImgs ... note typical 1990s design and photography before the Chinese sucked all the class out of typefaces with serifs.



Money shot:



Genuine HP probes and documentation bag in 1990s browny grey:



MegaZoom! Note the RS232 / printer pack. There's a good old Centronics connector and RS232 port on the back. You can talk to the scope via SCPI and control literally everything on it and take screenshots etc. The Centronics port will plug into an HP Laserjet and allow you to print out hardcopies. Awesome. Need a LaserJet 4 now (any excuse!)



Now for some HD porn:

Built in Easter Egg and engineering credits. There's a game too but I didn't run that.

https://www.youtube.com/nC_fEPRal4Q

Measurin' shit:

https://www.youtube.com/A1FFM3BMLl0

Single capture MegaZoom example. Pretty good! Much better than the 2k in the earlier 54600's and a lot of Tektronix scopes even up until recent times  |O

https://www.youtube.com/ZX7WdWKXCx8

Money well spent. Now to find some probes!

Edit: the background noise is not the scope. I have an HP DL380 g9 going in the background :D

Edit 2: From the CLIP schematics:



Edit 3: Basically the whole thing is a 68k CPU, TMS320C50 DSP and a boat load of RAM.

A shame those happy videos went tits up. ;)

mnem
 :-/O

Yeah I do indeed.

BTW Google shut my account down due to a fuck up migrating away from GSuite which caused me to lose everything. Never trust the bastards!
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123043 on: June 16, 2022, 06:33:24 am »
Some thoughts on scopes actually.

I won’t own an old digital scope now. There’s too much unfixable stuff to worry about, very little service info for most of them and the prices are too high compared to some of the new digital scopes. And you actually get probes, a warranty and some excellent features with the new ones.

So on this cycle I actually want to concentrate on some projects so I’m going to keep it to the Siglent and possibly a 7k and that’s it. Should have enough room for a 7k and associated cart soon you see  :-DD

I will of course make exceptions for the following which are instant buys:

1. Tek 422
2. Hameg HM103

As far as 7000 series goes I’d like a 7504 for the sheer engineering beauty http://golddredgervideo.com/kc0wox/tek/7504/detailedpictures.htm
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 06:36:50 am by bd139 »
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123044 on: June 16, 2022, 06:43:36 am »
Why a HM103 and not a 203 or 207? (Meant the 205)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 06:45:34 am by BU508A »
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123045 on: June 16, 2022, 06:48:36 am »
Why a HM103 and not a 203 or 207? (Meant the 205)

Tiny and cute and has the component tester still  :-DD

Edit: apparently I am an idiot. It’s the HM307 that is tiny and cute  :palm:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 06:50:37 am by bd139 »
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123046 on: June 16, 2022, 06:49:55 am »
OK, but what makes the Type 422 so special?

No...you can't have mine.  :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123047 on: June 16, 2022, 06:51:06 am »
OK, but what makes the Type 422 so special?

No...you can't have mine.  :-DD

No ICs. A late 453 will suffice too  :-DD
 

Offline Atomillo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123048 on: June 16, 2022, 06:52:08 am »
Following the advice from TERRA, I disassembled the keyboard. Firstly, I must say that the HP engineers who designed this were geniuses. You can take apart the keyboard without touching anything else of the instrument! I at first didn't realize this, but when seeing I had to disconnect the attenuator, I used my brain a little bit and read the whole service manual before commiting any massacres.

Secondly, unfortunately I can not clean the keys. They are not the "plain" metal strip type showed in the video, instead they are actually curved in the end. Using the other keyboard as a guinepig, I tried to dismantle and put together a switch and actually managed to break it off from the board. Also, even though now it seems like it is correct, it isn't, it doesn't "jump back". No matter how many times I've tried it, I've had no luck. It probably needs more dexterity than I have. And by the way, the second board is absolutely busted. It has very visible corrosion damage everywhere and rust is apparent... It seems like eBay kind of lied to the previous owner.

Fortunately, by applying contact cleaner and cleaning all the residue off the board the situation seems to improve quite a bit. Most keys are actually responsive now, but some (the increment button and some number keys) still seem to need some, uhm, convincing. In spite of that now the instrument is actually useable without frustration!! I've also tested modulation and everything works great.

Finally, I also made "the final stack". I like how you can kind of see the evolution from the 8565 and 55, to the 56, to the 01. And then the Siglent might be feeling a bit out of place  :-DD

Your switches are the same as in my video. There was only ever one type of 'Bill West' switch.

Try not to remove the button tops if you don't need to, they can sometimes get quite stuck, if you do need to remove them for access to the switch, lift it straight up with a slight wiggle while pressing down on the red part of the switch, they can be quite stiff sometimes.
Then, you need to flick the flat spring out of the red base with the pointy end of some tweezers, withdraw it from the switch body then flip it upside down, end to end longways (not side to side) and carefully reinstall it, making sure it seats in properly. Practice makes perfect....
If the spring is more than a tiny (barely perceptibly) bent, flatten it GENTLY! with a fingernail like you are curling a ribbon.
Then put a tiny (!!) bit of plastic safe grease on the sides of the white plunger (I use grease in a syringe) and work it into the switch by operating the switch a number of times.

If you have contact problems, a blast with deoxit will get it working right again. Cleaning the switches can be achieved by washing with isopropyl alcohol.

If you break a switch off the board, you can just superglue (a tiny bit of glue!) it back down, they only experience downward force, no lateral forces at all, so the superglue is fine to hold it to the PCB.

If you need to replace a switch, simply cut the mushroomed plastic off the two posts protruding through to the back of the PCB and pull the switch out.
To reinstall, stick the replacement switch in place and put a drop of superglue on each post where you cut the plastic off before. Follow with a tiny bit of superglue accelerant to set it and you are done.
If you are using a brand-new replacement switch, use a soldering iron set to an appropriate temperature to peen over the plastic as per the other switches.

There is a document about these switches floating around, but they were never a user replaceable part (you were supposed to send your machine in for HP to replace broken switches), hence the lack of NOS switch assemblies, they command a ridiculous price (I've seen them around $50 A PIECE!) as they were never sold to the 'public'.
So on the rare event that I scrap a HP bit of gear with these switches, I always keep them for future use.


Here's the patent for some nice diagrams etc:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4017700

Wow many thanks!!

I must confess you made it look very easy. I will continue to practice with the second hand board before touching anything in the one already installed.

I feel it is quite likely the problem here is myself, my manual skills tend to leave a lot to be desired.
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #123049 on: June 16, 2022, 07:03:22 am »
Sometimes you need to step away from something and then regroup and at a later time go back review again. Such is the case with the ALT mode issue with the 475. See first schematic. As noted yesterday there was no Alt sync pulse on the base of Q338. In tracing it back the schematic referenced the source through the ALT switch and then to R599. I could not find R599 anywhere and I had concluded that I was missing documentation.



Incorrect. See 2nd schematic. Found it. On the collector of Q596 on the trigger board. So when I get a chance I can continue troubleshooting the ALT mode issue including being able to continuity check the ALT mode switch without having to pull the interface board which is near impossible to access. Of course if the switch is bad I'll have no choice but to rip out the vertical board and the attenuators.

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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