Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

There’s another 34401A appeared, this time a 2009 Agilent one, so I will attempt to obtain that, get it calibrated, check the HP 34401A against it and then lose that one. So keep your hands off with the competition 

Keep an eye out for  an Agilent 34410A? They are essentially the same, except the VFD has a second line with mean/min/max/stddev/count statistics. I find those stats to be a killer advantage, and wouldn't want a 34401.

Unfortunately not suitable for my requirements otherwise I would. No serial port and has a fan. The place I’m moving to I don’t want to run Ethernet around or futz with cabling so I am using a USB-serial bridge.

The USB bridge in the 34410A is unfortunately a complete unknown when it comes to Macs.

They also command a serious price premium over a 34401, of the order of 50% or so iirc. Don't see that many of them on the bay of fleas tbh.

They appear on the other usual sites, often in batches. I snapped mine up at £400; not sure what they are going for now.

[bd139]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

[m k]

I just dropped a rack on my face.

You should not do that.

End of message.

It's so long since I've laughed out loud for a forum message.
It was just so from the pushes.

Good that the result stayed at the lighter side.

[Ice-Tea]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

They have been going for up to 800€.

[med6753]

Slept late, log in, and uh-oh.....I better make some popcorn.  Then I read ahead and cooler heads prevailed and it turns out I'm out of popcorn anyway. But I need caffeine, lots of it. So you guys in the EU, OZ, and Asia keep posting while I pry my eyes open. 

Today's objective: Fix the -15V missing on the 475A. I already have the trigger board pulled out again.

Carry on.   

[BU508A]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

How about YAGEO ones?

61x 100 1% E12, 0.6W from current production for 90 Euro (NAWTS).

https://www.ebay.de/itm/154991128157


I've bought the same kit one year ago or so.

[nixiefreqq]

I’m going no car. Problem solved.

Ham spotted today with silly antenna 

What's silly about the antenna?

It is a perfectly good multi-element Yagi (I would guess for the "70cm" band), which the ham concerned is using in a portable setup.
It is not mounted on the car for mobile use, as that really would be silly!

There are many reasons why a ham might want to "go portable"----maybe no room at home for a reasonable antenna, or they may be participating in one of the ongoing competitions which are centred around various points of interest, like mountain/hill summits, lighthouses, National Parks, etc.

A ham might well think we are silly, with our obsession with finding, refurbishing & using elderly test equipment, or a fisherman silly, for standing on a beach in the middle of winter, brandishing a 15 foot fibreglass rod, with an expensive reel attached.

I've tried beach fishing, & it really is silly!!
I never learnt how to cast properly, the howling "Sou-Westers" would take the line & blow it back further down the beach, where the seagulls would fall upon the bait.

I lassoed a pelican once, when something similar happened at a river's mouth.

Sorry about the great slab of type, but it seems that the unthinking default reaction to hams on this forum has become a sneer.

gotta' agree with bd.  that antenna is silly.   

here are some pics of my truck set up in the driveway for testing.

used this configuration saturday for mountaintop vhf uhf contesting.  the mountain laurel was in bloom and a wild turkey crossed the muddy road in front of me on the way to dark hollow vista. 

no.....you can not drive at highway speed with the antenna erect.  but you can creep up unpaved trails for minor location adjustments.

however, bd is correct.   it is all pretty silly.

[med6753]

I’m going no car. Problem solved.

Ham spotted today with silly antenna 

What's silly about the antenna?

It is a perfectly good multi-element Yagi (I would guess for the "70cm" band), which the ham concerned is using in a portable setup.
It is not mounted on the car for mobile use, as that really would be silly!

There are many reasons why a ham might want to "go portable"----maybe no room at home for a reasonable antenna, or they may be participating in one of the ongoing competitions which are centred around various points of interest, like mountain/hill summits, lighthouses, National Parks, etc.

A ham might well think we are silly, with our obsession with finding, refurbishing & using elderly test equipment, or a fisherman silly, for standing on a beach in the middle of winter, brandishing a 15 foot fibreglass rod, with an expensive reel attached.

I've tried beach fishing, & it really is silly!!
I never learnt how to cast properly, the howling "Sou-Westers" would take the line & blow it back further down the beach, where the seagulls would fall upon the bait.

I lassoed a pelican once, when something similar happened at a river's mouth.

Sorry about the great slab of type, but it seems that the unthinking default reaction to hams on this forum has become a sneer.

gotta' agree with bd.  that antenna is silly.   

here are some pics of my truck set up in the driveway for testing.

used this configuration saturday for mountaintop vhf uhf contesting.  the mountain laurel was in bloom and a wild turkey crossed the muddy road in front of me on the way to dark hollow vista. 

no.....you can not drive at highway speed with the antenna erect.  but you can creep up unpaved trails for minor location adjustments.

however, bd is correct.   it is all pretty silly.

Hey, that driveway looks very familiar. I wonder why? 

[nixiefreqq]

I’m going no car. Problem solved.

Ham spotted today with silly antenna 

What's silly about the antenna?

It is a perfectly good multi-element Yagi (I would guess for the "70cm" band), which the ham concerned is using in a portable setup.
It is not mounted on the car for mobile use, as that really would be silly!

There are many reasons why a ham might want to "go portable"----maybe no room at home for a reasonable antenna, or they may be participating in one of the ongoing competitions which are centred around various points of interest, like mountain/hill summits, lighthouses, National Parks, etc.

A ham might well think we are silly, with our obsession with finding, refurbishing & using elderly test equipment, or a fisherman silly, for standing on a beach in the middle of winter, brandishing a 15 foot fibreglass rod, with an expensive reel attached.

I've tried beach fishing, & it really is silly!!
I never learnt how to cast properly, the howling "Sou-Westers" would take the line & blow it back further down the beach, where the seagulls would fall upon the bait.

I lassoed a pelican once, when something similar happened at a river's mouth.

Sorry about the great slab of type, but it seems that the unthinking default reaction to hams on this forum has become a sneer.

gotta' agree with bd.  that antenna is silly.   

here are some pics of my truck set up in the driveway for testing.

used this configuration saturday for mountaintop vhf uhf contesting.  the mountain laurel was in bloom and a wild turkey crossed the muddy road in front of me on the way to dark hollow vista. 

no.....you can not drive at highway speed with the antenna erect.  but you can creep up unpaved trails for minor location adjustments.

however, bd is correct.   it is all pretty silly.

Hey, that driveway looks very familiar. I wonder why? 

fortunately you were there to haul away TE.

swmbo would have chased you off with a stick had it been a delivery.

[bd139]

I’m going no car. Problem solved.

Ham spotted today with silly antenna 

What's silly about the antenna?

It is a perfectly good multi-element Yagi (I would guess for the "70cm" band), which the ham concerned is using in a portable setup.
It is not mounted on the car for mobile use, as that really would be silly!

There are many reasons why a ham might want to "go portable"----maybe no room at home for a reasonable antenna, or they may be participating in one of the ongoing competitions which are centred around various points of interest, like mountain/hill summits, lighthouses, National Parks, etc.

A ham might well think we are silly, with our obsession with finding, refurbishing & using elderly test equipment, or a fisherman silly, for standing on a beach in the middle of winter, brandishing a 15 foot fibreglass rod, with an expensive reel attached.

I've tried beach fishing, & it really is silly!!
I never learnt how to cast properly, the howling "Sou-Westers" would take the line & blow it back further down the beach, where the seagulls would fall upon the bait.

I lassoed a pelican once, when something similar happened at a river's mouth.

Sorry about the great slab of type, but it seems that the unthinking default reaction to hams on this forum has become a sneer.

Yes yes yes of course. Just to point out, I am was/am a ham (M0 full license) who has participated in SOTA . I know the drill. I know why. The whole thing is still very very silly but that's fine

However fishing is a just cruel unless you're going to actually eat the things so that's a poor analogy

[bd139]

I’m going no car. Problem solved.

Ham spotted today with silly antenna 

What's silly about the antenna?

It is a perfectly good multi-element Yagi (I would guess for the "70cm" band), which the ham concerned is using in a portable setup.
It is not mounted on the car for mobile use, as that really would be silly!

There are many reasons why a ham might want to "go portable"----maybe no room at home for a reasonable antenna, or they may be participating in one of the ongoing competitions which are centred around various points of interest, like mountain/hill summits, lighthouses, National Parks, etc.

A ham might well think we are silly, with our obsession with finding, refurbishing & using elderly test equipment, or a fisherman silly, for standing on a beach in the middle of winter, brandishing a 15 foot fibreglass rod, with an expensive reel attached.

I've tried beach fishing, & it really is silly!!
I never learnt how to cast properly, the howling "Sou-Westers" would take the line & blow it back further down the beach, where the seagulls would fall upon the bait.

I lassoed a pelican once, when something similar happened at a river's mouth.

Sorry about the great slab of type, but it seems that the unthinking default reaction to hams on this forum has become a sneer.

gotta' agree with bd.  that antenna is silly.   

here are some pics of my truck set up in the driveway for testing.

used this configuration saturday for mountaintop vhf uhf contesting.  the mountain laurel was in bloom and a wild turkey crossed the muddy road in front of me on the way to dark hollow vista. 

no.....you can not drive at highway speed with the antenna erect.  but you can creep up unpaved trails for minor location adjustments.

however, bd is correct.   it is all pretty silly.

Now that's a proper porcupine 

[med6753]

fortunately you were there to haul away TE.

swmbo would have chased you off with a stick had it been a delivery.

I'm surprised she noticed a difference other than that very sad and corroded Type 561B sitting in the garage. Once I salvaged the CRT out of that scope for mine it got exiled to my garage too. I wasn't sure what might crawl out of it. 

[Vince]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

Forgive the stupid newbie question but....what do you / people mean by "shite" resistor, what's wrong with them in a concrete manner, and how can you be sure other brands are not shite ?
Are the crap ones out of tolerance resistance wise or otherwise, like tempco or actual power handling capabilities ? Too much noise ? Is that measured by you from experience or do you just go by the specs announced  by the datasheet ? Or are they just mechanically unreliable, like I don't know, the bond between the body and the terminals, develop internal micro-cracks, that you can't see of course but cause increased noise and instabilities in ohms reading or current handling and all sorts of random unwanted behaviour ? I don't know.... but I wanna know 
... because I too will need to order a "dev kit" as you say. Had a quick look at Farnell, main problem is that most of their kits are too limited, they usually do 10R to 1M, but I would like 1R to 10M, two more decades. Also they usually sell 100 of each, or 50.. I don't need that much for the little I do, would much prefer for the same price, have 30 or 50 of the 10x ones, and only 10 or 20 of the other values, but in exchange have two more decades, as well as full E24 not E12.. but looks like my demands do not fit what's on the market 
Ordering them one by one to make my own kit would take several years, clicking on hundreds of individual values... and the total price would probably be exorbitant anyway.

If my questions, electronics related aren't they, attract even half of the traffic that EV's do, I will be over the moon...

[bd139]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

How about YAGEO ones?

61x 100 1% E12, 0.6W from current production for 90 Euro (NAWTS).

https://www.ebay.de/itm/154991128157


I've bought the same kit one year ago or so.

Thanks for the tip. I had a look at that and the pricing is not bad but still too high.

I have decided to go through Tayda.

I ordered 50x each of E6 values and 20x each of E12 values that weren't covered by the E6 values plus some handy misc values. That is of course minus what I already found in my parts box that remains. So that's £37.64 for around 2030 resistors including delivery. Of course I got it shipped DHL so there will be 20% VAT + £11 handling charge. This works out at 2.68 pence per resistor approx whereas CPC are 2.38 pence a resistor. But CPC have stock problems and you have to buy minimum of 50 each so I couldn't get as many different values for the same price.

Spendy spend day today 

[bd139]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

Forgive the stupid newbie question but....what do you mean by "shite" resistor, what's wrong with them, and how can you be sure other brands are not shite ?
Aren't the crap ones out of tolerance resistance wise or otherwise, like tempco or actual power handling capabilities ? Too much noise ? Is that measured by you from experience or do you just go by the specs announced  by the datasheet ? Or are they just mechanically unreliable, like I don't know, they bond between the body and the terminals, develops internal cracks, that you can't see of course but causes increased noise and instabilities in ohms reading ? I don't know.... but I wanna know 
... because I too will need to order a "dev kit" as you say. Had a quick look at Farnell, main problem is that most of their kits are too limited, they usually do 10R to 1M, but I would like 1R to 10M, two more decades. Also they usually sell 100 of each, or 50.. I don't need that much for the little I do, would much prefer for the same price, have 50 of the 10x ones, and only 10 or 20 of the other values, but in exchange have two more decades, as well as full E24 not E12.. but looks like my demands do not fit what's on the market 
Ordering them one by one to make my own kit would take several years, clicking on hundreds of individual values... and the total price would probably be exorbitant anyway.

If my questions, electronics related aren't they, attract even half of the traffic that EV's do, I will be over the moon...

Actually those are really good questions.

Really the answer is getting what you pay for. There are three main sources of resistors I have found which I will describe:

Chinese hair legged crap - these are the ones you get from aliexpress and ebay and local hobby stores etc. They tend to have badly plated steel extremely thin legs because they are cheaper. The casings are miniscule and they are usually poorly marked. The specification can vary wildly sometimes outside the marketed tolerance and never expect them to work anywhere near the rated voltage or have more than one with the same temperature coefficient. The failure modes are usually rust or mechanical damage. But they are very cheap.

Mid-range stuff - usually I use Royal Ohm here as an example. Usually what the bigger vendors sell off as their own value brand stuff because they don't want to be associated with the crap stuff. Copper legs, tinned. Actual specifications available and the parts are always within those specifications. But importantly you can reliably get them so when you go back and run out of parts you will get exactly what you want. And they rarely if ever fail.

Proper stuff - Vishay etc. Really top notch items with extremely long lifetimes and will run 2x their rating and go "meh". But expensive as hell, even in large quantities.

As for buying them, this is where I just ordered: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/resistors/1-4w-metal-film-resistors/test-group-2.html ... I feel sorry for the poor fucker who has to pack all that.

[ch_scr]

Last one I saw went for over 550.

Ok quick question. Bar actually getting something Royal Ohm shipped direct from Thailand from Tayda, does anyone know any decent vendors of 1% 1/4W metal film resistors in the UK? I need a dev pack ideally AND the ability to buy the same resistors again if I run out.

The usual Royal Ohm ones I buy are the same as CPC/Farnell's Multicomp Pro line. They do a dev kit for £61 but it doesn't specify enough info to work out that they are the same resistors or hair legged Chinese shite 

Forgive the stupid newbie question but....what do you mean by "shite" resistor, what's wrong with them, and how can you be sure other brands are not shite ?
Aren't the crap ones out of tolerance resistance wise or otherwise, like tempco or actual power handling capabilities ? Too much noise ? Is that measured by you from experience or do you just go by the specs announced  by the datasheet ? Or are they just mechanically unreliable, like I don't know, they bond between the body and the terminals, develops internal cracks, that you can't see of course but causes increased noise and instabilities in ohms reading ? I don't know.... but I wanna know 
... because I too will need to order a "dev kit" as you say. Had a quick look at Farnell, main problem is that most of their kits are too limited, they usually do 10R to 1M, but I would like 1R to 10M, two more decades. Also they usually sell 100 of each, or 50.. I don't need that much for the little I do, would much prefer for the same price, have 50 of the 10x ones, and only 10 or 20 of the other values, but in exchange have two more decades, as well as full E24 not E12.. but looks like my demands do not fit what's on the market 
Ordering them one by one to make my own kit would take several years, clicking on hundreds of individual values... and the total price would probably be exorbitant anyway.

If my questions, electronics related aren't they, attract even half of the traffic that EV's do, I will be over the moon...

Actually those are really good questions.

Really the answer is getting what you pay for. There are three main sources of resistors I have found which I will describe:

Chinese hair legged crap - these are the ones you get from aliexpress and ebay and local hobby stores etc. They tend to have badly plated steel extremely thin legs because they are cheaper. The casings are miniscule and they are usually poorly marked. The specification can vary wildly sometimes outside the marketed tolerance and never expect them to work anywhere near the rated voltage or have more than one with the same temperature coefficient. The failure modes are usually rust or mechanical damage. But they are very cheap.

Mid-range stuff - usually I use Royal Ohm here as an example. Usually what the bigger vendors sell off as their own value brand stuff because they don't want to be associated with the crap stuff. Copper legs, tinned. Actual specifications available and the parts are always within those specifications. But importantly you can reliably get them so when you go back and run out of parts you will get exactly what you want. And they rarely if ever fail.

Proper stuff - Vishay etc. Really top notch items with extremely long lifetimes and will run 2x their rating and go "meh". But expensive as hell, even in large quantities.

As for buying them, this is where I just ordered: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/resistors/1-4w-metal-film-resistors/test-group-2.html ... I feel sorry for the poor fucker who has to pack all that.

The usual test over here is "If the resistor leg sticks to a magnet, it goes back to where it came from".

[bd139]

That's a VERY good metric.

[BU508A]

Hmmm ...

90 Euro are around 78£.

78£ / 6100 gives me a 1.28 pence per resistor.

Hmmmmmmm ...

 

And all resistors are from the same manufacturer (same series MF0), all have 0.6W, all are 1% and the quality is not bad. Plus, I've seen those resistors around for several years. Reichelt, for example, has them.

Added datasheet of the MF0.
Got it from the YAGEO website.

[bd139]

Yeah but add import and handling and it works out twice the cost to get the resistors I need.

I would do it if they had less resistors in the kit. I don't need 100x 27 ohm resistors for example. I will never use them

Disclaimer: might suddenly need 100x 27 ohm resistors at some random point in the future 

[McBryce]

Yeah but add import and handling and it works out twice the cost to get the resistors I need.

I would do it if they had less resistors in the kit. I don't need 100x 27 ohm resistors for example. I will never use them

Disclaimer: might suddenly need 100x 27 ohm resistors at some random point in the future 

Well you could also use them in series for 54ohm, 81ohm, 108ohm... And just think of all the parallel values you could create too!

McBryce.

[BU508A]

Yeah but add import and handling and it works out twice the cost to get the resistors I need.

I would do it if they had less resistors in the kit. I don't need 100x 27 ohm resistors for example. I will never use them

Disclaimer: might suddenly need 100x 27 ohm resistors at some random point in the future 

Assumed,  I would send you this kit, how much would be the import fee, taxes etc.?

And for the 27R resistor: I'm using them when I want to build a constant current source for driving LEDs with 22mA.   

[Vince]

Thanks BD and others for your replies ! 

DIODES : now sorting my big " stud " diodes. First, I picked the biggest one of them, because why not, you gotta start somewhere.

It's very clearly marked : " SEMIKRON  SK25/02 "

OK SemiKron / SK.... makes sense I guess.

So I Googled for that and sure enough there is a SK25 diode, yay !!!

OR NOT !!!

There is a freaking modern tiny surface mount Schottky diode that also happens to be called SK25 !
So I am flooded with that datasheet, can't find one for my old stud diode then !

Not a good start... if someone has it in an old paper catalogue.... please speak up. You will have my gratitude.

In the meantime, moving on to Googling my other diodes... hopefully with better luck.

[Vince]

EDIT : add another one to the list : Motorola SDS121 , can't find that one either....

[McBryce]

Thanks BD and others for your replies ! 

DIODES : now sorting my big " stud " diodes. First, I pick the biggest one of them, because why not, you gotta start somewhere.

It's very clearly markexc : " SEMIKRON  SK25/02 "

OK SemiKron / SK.... make sense I guess.

So I google for that sure enough there is a SK25 diode, yay !!!

OR NOT !!!

There is a freaking modern tiny surface mount Schottky diode that's called SK25 !
So I am flooded with that datasheet, can't find one for my old stud diode then !

Not a good start... if someone has it in an old paper catalogue.... please speak up. You will have my gratitude.

In the meantime, moving on to Googling my other diodes... hopefully with better luck.

I think they started adding an extra letter when they expanded their range of components. So it's probably called an SKR25 or SKN25 now.

McBryce.

[Vince]

EDIT : add SESCO 306Z4 to the list... geez the first 3 I pick are no go, not looking good ! 

Not holding my breath for the remaining ones... 27 of them.. if I find one or two datasheet that will be as good as I can hope it to be I guess...

Definitely need an old paper catalogue of the era to find all these diodes, definitely