Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[capt bullshot]

Oh, and my daughter is cute. 

'nuff qualification, ain't it so?

[mansaxel]

5440 update:

All the BAMA manuals are nice to have, but they're shite scans -- which I know isn't BAMA's fault at all. (And everybody else just downloaded from there and reposted, including TekWiki.) Caved in and bought Artek scans for 5B40, 5A48, 5A38 plugins.  I'll be traveling for work the coming week, using an Interrail pass to go to Geneva and back, so not likely to be able to perform TE work until next weekend.

[Robert763]

Robert, you jumped into an existing conversation where both 3-wire and 4-wire cord installation were being discussed. You did not specify which you were talking about, nor does your diagram state any such thing clearly.

Yet when I try to clarify, and completely non-confrontationally explain what we were talking about vs what you were talking about, you take offense.

Dood... seriously. Nothing I said deserved that level of response.

mnem
*toddles off to do something... else*

1/The sketch shows 4 wires going to the dryer
2/ The described fault can only happen if the earth and neutral are connected at the dryer so it must be a 4 wire cord
3/ the same issue applies for any equipment if you connect the neutral and protective conductor including 3 wire 110V or european style 240V 3 wire.

How much detail did I have to give?

Obviously it was not obvious what you were talking about, or we wouldn't be having this misunderstanding. There was never any intent to demean, trivialize or in any way attack you here. 

We are not inside your head Robert, we don't all always know what you're talking about. You tend to take shortcuts in the discussion and in this case also the drawing that reflect what you're thinking about, and assume everyone else knows what you mean. ie: including the terminal strip and not including a nonexistent GND as I did would have gone a lot further towards clarifying.

The nature of this medium means you do have to be more specific and more detailed than with "in person" conversations; we don't have the benefit of body language, tone of voice, or facial expression to help us understand what you mean. Even the point of the conversation where you jump in makes a difference here.

At this point all I can do is chalk this one up to misunderstanding and the nature of the medium as above; I encourage you to do the same, as I never wanted to fight about any of this. 

mnem
I think I'm gonna go color some My Little Ponies with my daughter... we NEVER argue when we're doing that...

Well you seem to be the only person who had a problem with it. You have still not accepted that I'm correct in saying that a connection between protective ground and neutral in ANY appliance (note: being able to connect them together means both protective ground and neutral conductors must be present) poses a risk of overloading the appliance cord if the neutral goes open elsewhere in the system.
This applies to 110V (NA) and 240V (EU) single phase as well as the specific case of a USA 220V split phase dryer where there appears to be a historic practice that makes the incorrect connection more likely by providing a link wire.
You did not try to explain the problem, you tried to dismiss it by changing the conditions i.e going to a "3wire" dryer connection.
I was not knocking the USA electrical just show the issue which is not obvious.
I'm done on this one.

[Robert763]

I just plug my dryer in the wall 

As one does when the normal outlet can supply adequate power. A BS1363 outlet not on ring mains will happily supply a little bit over 3KW; that's ~26A at 120V...

240-ish volt Dryer circuit over here is 30A, 240-ish volt Range circuit is 50A. Both use a dedicated dual breaker with internal common trip. Standard 125-ish volt household outlet is rated 15A/1875W, and we also have a standard for 125-ish volt 20A/2500W.

And none of those household plugs qualify as a lethal weapon in most use cases. Our Range/Dryer plugs are as bad as yours, tho... 

mnem
Honestly, I don't know why it isn't a "thing" you hear about in the news all the time; murdering people with those monstrous things...

You don't hear about electrocution deaths caused by "13A" plugs in the news is because they don't happen. Sockets and plugs properly designed and built to the british standard are very safe despite the "high" voltage.
We do have problems with cheap appliances, plugs, adaptors ets that are fubamentallly unsafe and having a 240V supply DOES increase the risk when these fail. 
A US Split-Phase  220V system is NOT as dangerous as the UK 240V because ther is still only 110V to "ground" and ground is the most likely return path through a human.
The british system uses  similar Split-Phase" system in high risk areas like construction power tools. That is even safer as it is a 55V-0-55V system with transformers so only 55V to ground.
We also have rules on electrical outs and lights in bathrooms etc.
At least our sockets don't need regular replacement like most NEMA 5-15 outlets.

[bd139]

Yeah electrical safety here is probably the best on the planet. My oven is plugged into a standard socket to give you an idea. (2.5kW single oven).

British mains plugs have been iterated on for decades and are incredibly robust. Never seen a problem with one unlike the US ones which seem to melt every two minutes.

[mansaxel]

Yeah electrical safety here is probably the best on the planet. My oven is plugged into a standard socket to give you an idea. (2.5kW single oven).

British mains plugs have been iterated on for decades and are incredibly robust. Never seen a problem with one unlike the US ones which seem to melt every two minutes.

The greatest danger a 13A plug poses is when packed badly with TE or if stepped on barefoot.

[DC1MC]

Yeah electrical safety here is probably the best on the planet. My oven is plugged into a standard socket to give you an idea. (2.5kW single oven).

British mains plugs have been iterated on for decades and are incredibly robust. Never seen a problem with one unlike the US ones which seem to melt every two minutes.

Paraphrasing Gilbert and Sullivan: "The British plug is a solider, as strong as a mountain is..."

[AVGresponding]

" a connection between protective ground and neutral in ANY appliance (note: being able to connect them together means both protective ground and neutral conductors must be present) poses a risk of overloading the appliance cord if the neutral goes open elsewhere in the system. "

And would be an automatic and instant fail of a PAT.

Although I'm not allowed to cut plugs off things on the (rare these days) occasions I get to wear my PAT hat, if I put a red FAIL sticker on something, it had better not get used. Subbies don't like being told they can't have their favourite old extension/battery charger/SDS drill on site if it fails a PAT, and will ignore it if they can get away with it, so I'll just pick it up and take it off the site and tell them if they try to bring it back they'll be joining it, and to argue with the project manager about it because I'm not interested in their excuses.

[VK5RC]

Truthfully, ever since it became clear my messages were vanishing into nowhere, I have been thinking about ordering the U1253B package from Transcat since that'd come with a warranty, current calibration, fresh OLED display, plus the carry case etc.

Order placed.  I also ordered a bunch of miscellaneous things I needed that weren't enough to get above the free shipping threshold so that took care of all that.

"Message Again"  It wouldn't be much effort to type something and hit send but I'm not even sure I'm going to bother.

Now I'm tempted to hit the "Message Again" button and send a note saying I bought a new U1253B since he didn't get back to me.

Agilent isn't the current brand name and even then Keysight isn't as widely known as Fluke, and he's got the listed the U1253B at what I'd consider a fairly reasonable price for what it is, but that means it's priced well above the cheap DMMs people flip all the time.  Have fun shifting it.  Could've had cash in hand a week ago.

Hopefully the design of the 1253B is significantly improved over the 1253A that Dave did a teardown of way back when; the continuity function in particular was garbage, and the general design of the front end wasn't great.

I have a U1253b and they are a nice meter, BUT the oled display has a nasty tendency to fade, I believe esp if hot, humid and exposed to light,.
The meter turns on quickly, is nice in the hand (like 87v) and inside the display has a great viewing angle - much better than lcd. Rechargeable batteries are a bit of a PITA.
My go to HH DMM now is a Hioki.

[Vince]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if their diode can do 1,500Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!   
I

[bd139]

Yeah electrical safety here is probably the best on the planet. My oven is plugged into a standard socket to give you an idea. (2.5kW single oven).

British mains plugs have been iterated on for decades and are incredibly robust. Never seen a problem with one unlike the US ones which seem to melt every two minutes.

The greatest danger a 13A plug poses is when packed badly with TE or if stepped on barefoot.

Correct.

Not sure it still does it but if you search for “caltrop” on Google images, occasionally it reports British plugs 

[bd139]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if there diode can do 1,5000Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!  :
I

This is why I don’t bother with old parts.

1n4148, 1n4002, some red LEDs and a few assorted zeners and buy anything special you need in demand.

[m k]

Yeah electrical safety here is probably the best on the planet. My oven is plugged into a standard socket to give you an idea. (2.5kW single oven).

British mains plugs have been iterated on for decades and are incredibly robust. Never seen a problem with one unlike the US ones which seem to melt every two minutes.

The greatest danger a 13A plug poses is when packed badly with TE or if stepped on barefoot.

Schuko seems to be for pretty low currents only, actually.
It's more than once when things have been internally less bright.

Some hand tools also included.
The bright one has no name.

BTW,
If Kepco had an aluminium profile heatsink, would it fit?

BTW2,
Once in school I took a third foreign language, had to take something, but the age was bad and it was a last class of the day so it didn't went well.
Finally they gave me 6.0/10 total average and were allowed to kick me out permanently.
But when autumn came I was matured, and realized, enough so guess who was, hat in hand, visiting the principal.
Later some teachers had reactions.

[m k]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if their diode can do 1,500Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!   
I

What package types?

Maybe the name is an omen.

[TERRA Operative]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if there diode can do 1,5000Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!  :
I

This is why I don’t bother with old parts.

1n4148, 1n4002 1N4007, some red LEDs and a few assorted zeners and buy anything special you need in demand.

Fixed it for you.

[bd139]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if there diode can do 1,5000Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!  :
I

This is why I don’t bother with old parts.

1n4148, 1n4002 1N4007, some red LEDs and a few assorted zeners and buy anything special you need in demand.

Fixed it for you.

Fair points.

The 1n4007’s can be abused as PIN diodes and varactors too 

Edit: they have an extra intrinsic layer apparently.

[mansaxel]

Schuko seems to be for pretty low currents only, actually.

When Sweden was not part of the EU, the CEE 7/7 or 7/4 (Both are Schukos, but the 7/7 is compatible with French outlets according to NF C 61-314) were capable of 10A load; subject to cable gauge; a 1,5mm² was deemed sufficient for 10A in extension cord and fuse panel to outlet applications.

As soon as we joined EU, the laws of physics changed, and it is now permissible to run 16A through a CEE 7/4, if the cable is upped to 2,5mm². At the same time, copper got better, so 1,5mm² can now support 13A.

For significant loads, I always specify IEC 60309 connectors. ("MK Commando" in the UK; a clear eponym from the known manufacturer) They are sufficiently engineered. The only usage in the US seems to be for refrigerated shipping containers.

[Vince]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if their diode can do 1,500Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!   
I

What package types?

Maybe the name is an omen.

Don't know what "omen" means sorry 

Package is irrelevant, the problem is the datasheet... but here it is anyway. I don't know how it's called, datasheet doesn't say. It's like a TO220 (on the pic as well, for size comparison), but much bigger.

[AVGresponding]

Fleabay time:



Definitely one for the HFM?!? list:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134143470130





Double screen, probable double hernia:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234585115928





13 watchers, so I'm not blowing anyone's secret spot I think:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225025353554





Baby nixie meter. I notice the current input is the same as the V/Ω etc. WCPGW? The 1V check is an intriguing feature:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185458260809





No doubt bidding will go daft at the death, but here's this anyway:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134142018953





Baby Tek:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125361689630





The seller helpfully quotes the RRP. If they think it will get anywhere near that, they'll be disappointed:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155026408608





PL330 rapidly approaching its go/no-go price point:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115412676201





One for the gamblers:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203982074493





A couple of Fluke 17x series:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234582785960




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185452891582





This looks pretty clean, it'll be interesting to see what it sells for:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134138358319





Another no doubt soon to be bidding war:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115411535244

[bd139]

Well that’s basically my watch list 

[ch_scr]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if there diode can do 1,5000Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!  :
I

This is why I don’t bother with old parts.

1n4148, 1n4002 1N4007, some red LEDs and a few assorted zeners and buy anything special you need in demand.

Fixed it for you.

That's fine and dandy but I like UF4007 more. It's the same 1A/1000V but fast. Just put 3 in series for a cheap & very sturdy 3kV diode and can run in the kHz, easy. Need a 1N4007 replacement? Still can do with these....

[m k]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if their diode can do 1,500Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!   
I

What package types?

Maybe the name is an omen.

Don't know what "omen" means sorry 

Package is irrelevant, the problem is the datasheet... but here it is anyway. I don't know how it's called, datasheet doesn't say. It's like a TO220 (on the pic as well, for size comparison), but much bigger.

Nomen est omen.
I'm pretty sure omen is also Anglo, somewhere.

FMQ-G2FS is 1500V/10A and FMQ-G5FMS is the same.
Whole set is over 1000V so that's pretty safe.
Number 5 seems to be among beefier ones so maybe 5A is safe.

[Robert763]

I HATE DIODES !!!!!

Currently trying to identify/sort/organize all my salvaged beefy diodes. Most were pulled from CRT TV's or monitors.... their datasheet says they are "damping" diodes, for CRT Horizontal deflection.

The datasheet will tell you all sorts of things relevant to their intended use case, logical, fair enough, with all sorts of repetitive or non repetitive voltage or current stimuli, BUT they will never tell you the most basics of specs I wanna know for a freaking diode : what is the maximum  DC voltage and current they can sustain !!!   

I don't care if their diode can do 1,500Volts repetitive at 32.5kHz or 115,567kHz on a square wave with 35.78% duty cycle...... just tell me what freaking DC voltage and current it can handle FFS !!! 

So basically I have lots of cool beefy diodes but I can't contemplate reusing them because I have no idea what current and voltage they can actually handle, hence I might as well throw them away !!   
I

What package types?

Maybe the name is an omen.

Don't know what "omen" means sorry 

Package is irrelevant, the problem is the datasheet... but here it is anyway. I don't know how it's called, datasheet doesn't say. It's like a TO220 (on the pic as well, for size comparison), but much bigger.

If only AC rating are given a conservative DC rating conversion is:
DC reverse voltage = AC voltage
DC average forward current = 1/2 AC average current.
DC peak current  = AC average current
Frequency is irrelevant.

[AVGresponding]

That's fine and dandy but I like UF4007 more. It's the same 1A/1000V but fast. Just put 3 in series for a cheap & very sturdy 3kV diode and can run in the kHz, easy. Need a 1N4007 replacement? Still can do with these....

Might be some marginal use cases where they don't work as well, V_F looks to be quite a bit higher at max I_F, and maybe the capacitance too.

[xrunner]

Vince are you watching the big race 24 hrs of Le Mans while you're sorting diodes?