Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Has anyone here had a DE-5000 refuse to boot up (BATT error despite good battery) not that long after buying it new? Of course now that I have a problem I googled it and feel like I am seeing tons of people talk about dead DE-5000.

Man,  I was thinking to avoid Atlas but maybe I will go with one of their devices after all. The EVB meters are still available too, but they don't do capacitance at different frequencies.

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

[mansaxel]

Someone, possibly tggzzz mentioned free42. Sold. Works on iOS

'twas me, I think. Yes, it's a must. One of the first things I install on any phone, even if it is on Android in my case.

[mansaxel]

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

Mine's been flawless since the day Wife gave it to me. That was a nice birthday.

And, when she gave me the Atlas transistor tester, that also was a good day. Both instruments are useful and nice additions to the bench, and if I hadn't been given the DE-5000, an Atlas would have fit the bill nicely. (as BD139 would be quick to tell us!) 

(must find something new to work BD up with now that he's gotten a 427a)

/mansaxel, shoulda been in bed 1h30 ago, at least...

[mnementh]

Ditto here; mine's been a trooper for years.

 My first guess is people murdering them by not discharging capacitors before attempting to measure them.

mnem
 

[Zoli]

Has anyone here had a DE-5000 refuse to boot up (BATT error despite good battery) not that long after buying it new? Of course now that I have a problem I googled it and feel like I am seeing tons of people talk about dead DE-5000.

Man,  I was thinking to avoid Atlas but maybe I will go with one of their devices after all. The EVB meters are still available too, but they don't do capacitance at different frequencies.

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

As owner of one, I would recommend to look for alternatives made with the same chipset. Beside the battery issues, some of them(I suspect mine, too) are sick on 100kHz(both L and C).
Examples: N87 tor: 100µH, Q30 @10kHz - 88µH, Q10 @100kHz; N87 optimum frequency range: 25-500kHz
                 100nF polypropylene ESR 15mΩ@10kHz, 25mΩ@100kHz(Z_min around 1MHZ).
                 Kelvin Leads, RG174 cables.

[bd139]

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

Mine's been flawless since the day Wife gave it to me. That was a nice birthday.

And, when she gave me the Atlas transistor tester, that also was a good day. Both instruments are useful and nice additions to the bench, and if I hadn't been given the DE-5000, an Atlas would have fit the bill nicely. (as BD139 would be quick to tell us!) 

(must find something new to work BD up with now that he's gotten a 427a)

/mansaxel, shoulda been in bed 1h30 ago, at least...

Yeah just buy the Peak LCR45. It just works. No wankery trying to find a genuine one or a seller who isn’t going to rip you off. It also works perfectly way outside its specifications ie very low capacitance and inductance. Also doesn’t have excessive probulators.

Really if you’re going to do anything other than basic measurements you’re probably better with a signal generator, impedance bridge and scope anyway. I mean neither the LCR45 or DE-5000 are going to tell you what the SRF is for example of what the ESR is at 20MHz

Next one is the HP 400E or perhaps a 3456A 

[mnementh]

Has anyone here had a DE-5000 refuse to boot up (BATT error despite good battery) not that long after buying it new? Of course now that I have a problem I googled it and feel like I am seeing tons of people talk about dead DE-5000.

Man,  I was thinking to avoid Atlas but maybe I will go with one of their devices after all. The EVB meters are still available too, but they don't do capacitance at different frequencies.

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

As owner of one, I would recommend to look for alternatives made with the same chipset. Beside the battery issues, some of them (I suspect mine, too) are sick on 100kHz(both L and C).
Examples: N87 tor: 100µH, Q30 @10kHz - 88µH, Q10 @100kHz; N87 optimum frequency range: 25-500kHz
                 100nF polypropylene ESR 15mΩ@10kHz, 25mΩ@100kHz(Z_min around 1MHZ).
                 Kelvin Leads, RG174 cables.

Questions about non-OEM leads set aside, why would you not expect them to measure differently at different frequencies? We all know the measuring mechanism these use is a compromise; I just find it is one of the best bang/buck compromises out there. The whole point of the different frequencies is being able to measure at similar frequency to the application at hand (LF linear PSU vs other applications) or getting close to the specs in a datasheet.

Trying to get Lab-grade stability/accuracy out of any of these HH meters is a fool's errand.

As for the arguments over genuine/fake... I'm sorry; I thought we'd debunked that as pretty much entirely FUD generated by IET when they tried to market their own version as the DE-6000 and people stayed away in droves...?

I personally have yet to see any teardowns where the DUT was materially different from the one I own; aside from some completely expected cost-cutting on the input protection every one I've seen was exactly as expected... Did I miss some new development? A quick Google revealed nothing I haven't seen before...

mnem
 

[tautech]

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

Mine's been flawless since the day Wife gave it to me. That was a nice birthday.

And, when she gave me the Atlas transistor tester, that also was a good day. Both instruments are useful and nice additions to the bench, and if I hadn't been given the DE-5000, an Atlas would have fit the bill nicely. (as BD139 would be quick to tell us!) 

(must find something new to work BD up with now that he's gotten a 427a)

/mansaxel, shoulda been in bed 1h30 ago, at least...

Yeah just buy the Peak LCR45. It just works. No wankery trying to find a genuine one or a seller who isn’t going to rip you off. It also works perfectly way outside its specifications ie very low capacitance and inductance. Also doesn’t have excessive probulators.

Really if you’re going to do anything other than basic measurements you’re probably better with a signal generator, impedance bridge and scope anyway. I mean neither the LCR45 or DE-5000 are going to tell you what the SRF is for example of what the ESR is at 20MHz

Next one is the HP 400E or perhaps a 3456A 

Resisted all this stuff for years and covered by a good pair of SMD tweezers that cost much more than Shannon's new creation:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/design-a-new-precision-lcr-tweezers/

Revisiting those needs today I've again have no hesitation getting a good pair of SMD tweezers again for all TH and SMD work.

[BU508A]

NAWTS

I have ordered 20 RC4194D from here: https://www.utsource.net/itm/p/404529.html
This is one of the cheapest sources I was able to find onlineD.
It seems, that those parts are used ones. Will report back when they arrive.

On a side note: New customers are getting a 10% discount on the ordered parts for their first order.

But why - as they would offer you the RM4194D at about the same price?
But nevertheless, please let me know how it did work out!

 
I haven't seen that nor had I the idea to look for it.
If it is working out for the RC4194D we could organize a group buy for the RM4194D.

[Zoli]

....
Questions about non-OEM leads set aside, why would you not expect them to measure differently at different frequencies?
....

The difference between 1kHz and 10kHz is less then between 10kHz and 100kHz;
for the leads swe attachment; I think I've done a decent job, and there's no reading difference between the (calibrated) TL-21 and kelvins.

....
Trying to get Lab-grade stability/accuracy out of any of these HH meters is a fool's errand.
...
mnem
 

I don't look for lab grade measurement, but when I see gross(10%) errors instead of specs:
200.00µH 0.01µH 1.2%+5* 0.6%+3
200.00nF 0.01nF 0.3%+2 0.3%+2 0.3%+2 0.6%+3 (both lines copied from the manual)
I smell rat, no matter what kind of FUD or fight was before on the subject.

[taste_tester]

Well that's quite a surprise and most annoying, considering I was planning on buying a DE-5000 in the next 12 months. Bang for buck it was the best choice for my budget.

Will be interesting to see updates / investigations on this problem....

Mine's been flawless since the day Wife gave it to me. That was a nice birthday.

And, when she gave me the Atlas transistor tester, that also was a good day. Both instruments are useful and nice additions to the bench, and if I hadn't been given the DE-5000, an Atlas would have fit the bill nicely. (as BD139 would be quick to tell us!) 

(must find something new to work BD up with now that he's gotten a 427a)

/mansaxel, shoulda been in bed 1h30 ago, at least...

Yeah just buy the Peak LCR45. It just works. No wankery trying to find a genuine one or a seller who isn’t going to rip you off. It also works perfectly way outside its specifications ie very low capacitance and inductance. Also doesn’t have excessive probulators.

Really if you’re going to do anything other than basic measurements you’re probably better with a signal generator, impedance bridge and scope anyway. I mean neither the LCR45 or DE-5000 are going to tell you what the SRF is for example of what the ESR is at 20MHz

Next one is the HP 400E or perhaps a 3456A 

LCR45 was next on my list so I think i'll go ahead and get one of those.
I know several techs who have been using the same Atlas for years.
I got mine from eBay so luckily i'm covered by the money back guarantee, but the seller is already trying to get me to ship back without actually accepting the return, so I'm sure the return won't be a totally painless process.


edit: Hmm, I have a scope and sig gen but not an impedance bridge. I will have to look into that more, it's not a setup I have prior knowledge of. I have a DMM that can measure up to 200mF with close enough accuracy to what the DE-5000 gave me, so maybe I just need a cheapy that can give me rough in circuit values and then use a plain DMM and or scope for the rest.

[mnementh]

....
Questions about non-OEM leads set aside, why would you not expect them to measure differently at different frequencies?
....

The difference between 1kHz and 10kHz is less then between 10kHz and 100kHz;
for the leads swe attachment; I think I've done a decent job, and there's no reading difference between the (calibrated) TL-21 and kelvins.
(Attachment Link)

....
Trying to get Lab-grade stability/accuracy out of any of these HH meters is a fool's errand.
...
mnem
 

I don't look for lab grade measurement, but when I see gross(10%) errors instead of specs:
200.00µH 0.01µH 1.2%+5* 0.6%+3
200.00nF 0.01nF 0.3%+2 0.3%+2 0.3%+2 0.6%+3 (both lines copied from the manual)
I smell rat, no matter what kind of FUD or fight was before on the subject.

I know we spoke a lot about this before; as the circuit in these is not a proper LCR bridge, there has to be some compensation done somewhere. That compensation is applied based on the circuit it was designed with. Adding wires, even shielded ones, changes the resonant frequency of that circuit as a whole, no matter if you're able to zero it out or not. Now the compensation no longer applies to the circuit.

But okay... maybe you did get a bum one, or maybe it failed prematurely... I'm sorry if my proselytizing for the thing was a factor. 

I'm still much happier with my DE-5000 as a diag tool, even compared to my ESR70Plus and numerous much more expensive meters with a capacitance function.

mnem
moo. 

[Neomys Sapiens]

NAWTS

I have ordered 20 RC4194D from here: https://www.utsource.net/itm/p/404529.html
This is one of the cheapest sources I was able to find onlineD.
It seems, that those parts are used ones. Will report back when they arrive.

On a side note: New customers are getting a 10% discount on the ordered parts for their first order.

But why - as they would offer you the RM4194D at about the same price?
But nevertheless, please let me know how it did work out!

 
I haven't seen that nor had I the idea to look for it.
If it is working out for the RC4194D we could organize a group buy for the RM4194D.

Ok, I have part in that insofar as I did not name all the variants and grades. But even with my recommendations RTFM still holds true.
 

[taste_tester]

But okay... maybe you did get a bum one, or maybe it failed prematurely... I'm sorry if my proselytizing for the thing was a factor. 

I'm still much happier with my DE-5000 as a diag tool, even compared to my ESR70Plus and numerous much more expensive meters with a capacitance function.

mnem
moo. 

Honestly, i just wish the thing didn't have such a bizarre DC connector, or else I would have been able to see if it's truly dead! besides just because this one doesn't wanna work anymore, obviously doesn't mean all DE5000 are bad. It could have been as simple as the thing is damaged cause it was sent in just a padded envelope.

[nixiefreqq]

I’m going to dream of RPN all night now 

yeah.  sometimes i have nightmares about rpn too.

[Cerebus]

Someone, possibly tggzzz mentioned free42. Sold. Works on iOS

There's a macOS desktop version too. (Actually there's two: binary and decimal, as in how they do their internal arithmetic).

[med6753]

I had to un-notify myself from that New Tek thread. I didn't want to get any on me.   

[vk6zgo]

Bought this at the recent hamfest. What should I control with it?

"It lives!, It lives, I tell you!"------(Cue crazed laughter)

[vk6zgo]

While I agree with the analogy of the RR V12 etc, but I have never seen that style of advert from them, but I do recall seeing one many years ago from BMW saying that they employ a counterbalance shaft to iron out all vibrations and IIRC they had a coin standing on its edge of the rocker cover while the engine was running?

Ehhh... countershafts have been a thing since forever in engine design; not exactly a revelation. Coulda been that ad, though I remember it being much more "old-school"; some huge prewar land-yacht for people who never drove themselves. Maybe a Deusenberg...?

mnem
 

They were used in the Mitsubishi  "Stigma".

[cyclin_al]

Seriously? £80?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384932494888

Seriously, a wet dream on his part.  Bids should have started at $40 USD at most.

And then you have to modify the unregulated +5V supply for better stability. Once that's done it is a damn good DMM.

It's a terrible DMM full stop. Apart from the 5V problem it has mains routed badly on the main board, the display design and assembly stinks, the rest of the power supply stinks and the front end protection stinks.

So, when are you buying it?   

Strangely there is one that is functioning for slightly less money, including shipping & taxes from the US, has the same low ohm option too. 


And no I don't want it either.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144587432618

David

That's a more reasonable price and about what I paid for mine. First encountered an 8000A in 1975 as it was the required DMM to set the MST logic voltages (+1.250V and -3.00V) in IBM system's test for the S370 Model 3158. Was also used to set positive and negative 2% bias to stress the logic and shake out any weak logic cards. They stood up to day to day production banging around very well and I never ran across a defective one.

They stood up to my high school electronics class ... I was definitely one of the gentler students (ie. with half a clue what I was doing, instead of no clue).  I want one only for that reason.  This US price is getting more reasonable, but the cross-border shipping kills the deal...

[vk6zgo]

I just learned on the radio yesterday that our president just had a wonderful idea : teach math to the 16/18 year old at school ! Because apparently that same president decided to stop teaching them math a few years aback, didn't even know it ! That explains why people here can't even calculate a percentage (not even kidding). He also said to appease the teacher that are mad at the state of school : " With you help I will design the school of the FUTURE !!! ". .. to which they replied : "Hey moron, before talking about the futuristic school, just give us the school we had 30 years ago and that alone will be a tremendous improvement !!! ".  I have to agree there.

Looks like your Gubment is on top of modern tech words infiltrating your language too -

France levels up local video game slang with list of French terms to replace foreign words

Goodbye cloudy retro-gaming, bonjour ‘rétrojeu video en nuage’

France’s Commission d'enrichissement de la langue française* has decided to offer citizens new ways to describe video games in the language of the land.

The Commission’s mission is to create new terms that replace adopted words from foreign languages that become part of common speech in France, so that French doesn’t have gaps in vocabulary.

On Sunday, the French ministry of culture therefore issued new guidance [PDF] about how to discuss video games in French.

French speakers have been encouraged to ditch terms such as “cloud gaming” in favor of "jeu vidéo en nuage”

Retro gaming becomes “rétrojeu video”, or just “rétrojeu”.

French gamers who download additional content for their preferred entertainment will henceforth be acquiring “contenu téléchargeable additionnel”. If that content includes in-game ads, French gamers will be viewing “publicité intrajeu”.

E-sports professionals make their livings as “joueur/joueuse professionnel/professionnelle” and compete in “jeu vidéo de competition”.

The translated terms were published in the Journal Officiel de la République – the equivalent of the government Gazette in other nations. The Journal Officiel shares such Gazettes’ function as the definitive record of government decisions and actions. The Register understands the Journal Officiel is also binding on French government employees, meaning all are required to speak only of “squelettage” instead of the animation technique known as “rigging”.

Sacre Bleu! ®

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/31/france_levels_up_local_video/

That actually reminds me of a French woman I know/knew. She is eternally trying to make England more French because of course everyone really loves it when you go to their country and tell everyone how shit it is and how it needs to be more like your superior country.

Karma! -------It makes up for generations of Poms doing the same thing to Australia!
.

This was until at the end of a hike she said something too loud in the pub and attracted the ire of half of the unibrowed locals. She left rapidly and we haven’t seen her since. I did wonder if they caught up with her or she got the point…

[mnementh]

mnem
 

[srb1954]

Problem is, it does not matter how much I ask... I am not the one developing the S/W so I have to make do with what's out there, like everyone else.
I am happy that you are happy... I am not and wil never be by the way IT is going. t me computers have long stopped being interesting and fun... now they are just a necessary evil to me, that I try to live with, spend as little time as possible messing with as it's not enjoyable, and spend as little money on them as possible. My PC is 15 years old and if I could I would keep it another 15 or 30 years. Sadly it's starting to look less and less feasible due to S/W bloat and this race for silly high picture and movie resolutions / bandwidth.  The race for clock speed stagnated, so now they have invented a new race, for pixels, to keep the industry going 

Anyway sorry, I will just go and hide in a corner, with my Thomson TO-7 and optical crayon that goes with it !   Blip.... blip !

It is not just the race for picture resolution and bandwidth that is causing S/W bloat. These days everything S/W related seems to be expanding and consuming all available resources much like the alien amoeba in the classic 1958 horror film The Blob.

Example, I just bought a new wireless mouse and downloaded the driver for it; all 300MB of it. It is totally beyond my comprehension as to why it is necessary for a mouse driver to require 300MB of code to operate.

[tautech]

Problem is, it does not matter how much I ask... I am not the one developing the S/W so I have to make do with what's out there, like everyone else.
I am happy that you are happy... I am not and wil never be by the way IT is going. t me computers have long stopped being interesting and fun... now they are just a necessary evil to me, that I try to live with, spend as little time as possible messing with as it's not enjoyable, and spend as little money on them as possible. My PC is 15 years old and if I could I would keep it another 15 or 30 years. Sadly it's starting to look less and less feasible due to S/W bloat and this race for silly high picture and movie resolutions / bandwidth.  The race for clock speed stagnated, so now they have invented a new race, for pixels, to keep the industry going 

Anyway sorry, I will just go and hide in a corner, with my Thomson TO-7 and optical crayon that goes with it !   Blip.... blip !

It is not just the race for picture resolution and bandwidth that is causing S/W bloat. These days everything S/W related seems to be expanding and consuming all available resources much like the alien amoeba in the classic 1985 horror film The Blob.

Example, I just bought a new wireless mouse and downloaded the driver for it; all 300MB of it. It is totally beyond my comprehension as to why it is necessary for a mouse driver to require 300MB of code to operate.

Logitech I'm guessing. 
Same with my Trackman and a bit stupid when Winblows doesn't support even simple shit like assigning Alt key presses to the mouse wheel.

[mansaxel]

(must find something new to work BD up with now that he's gotten a 427a)

Next one is the HP 400E or perhaps a 3456A 

Oh, I've gone one step towards Smurfdom here, and have a 400H. Parameters are quite comparable to its successor.