Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

I could stream it live, that would solve that potential death problem !

Might I suggest a warning phone call to the fire dept and EMT's. 

Actually, although I live in a small 4000 souls village, we do happen to have a little fire brigade here, and it's actually just down my street, not even kidding !
It would probably takes them less time to reach me on foot that it would take them to start their truck and get it out the hangar !

As for EMT I would not count on it... in France we have a "love" for speed bumps, big nasty ones. There are no less than 20 of them to get across my village and through the next village, before you can get to the orbital / smooth fast road to get to the hospital at the other end of town. Assuming I was still alive when put inside the ambulance, I sure as hell would be " terminated " by the all these road bumps shaking me.. I would never make it alive all the way to the hospital ! 

You won't believe it... I tried my chanced and Googled for " Matra Pilote Martel", and got matches !! 

See below what a Matra "Martel" is !

It's a freaking anti-ship missile launched from a jet fighter, not even kidding !!! 

Apparently a jointed development between France and the UK.  Full name of the missile is the Martel " AS-37 "  !
Also called " ARMAT "missile apparently.

There is even a Wikipedia page on it !

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS.37_Martel

Apparently development started in the '60's, at least the deal for its development was signed back then.
There are two variants of this thing, depending on what technology it uses for its guidance. The UK were in charge of developing one version, France the other.

[mnementh]

...A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

EDIT: Rather than cut out on the edge of your bench, perhaps it would be better to screw a bit of 1x1 to the edge so it's flush with the surface. 

         I have these. Well, all 3 heads and 2 of the flat bases. The vises themselves can be swapped between the standard swivel heads without tools. I keep the third swivel base on the shelf in case I need to screw it down somewhere to get a quick lick of work in. I also have a couple leetle ones like yours, and a 5" mechanic's vise bolted to my back bench in the back half of the basement.

They all get used at one time or another. The PanaVise that looks like a regular vise will hold well enough to cut with a Dremel or razor saw or do filing; if I need to do some hacksawing, I just hold it down to the workbench with a big C-clamp on the baseplate.

I like that very much, where can I go buy that, what's the price ? Is it a patented design sold only by the original manufacturer, is it some generic chinese stuff one can buy from multiple sources on merchand websites under a gazillion different "brands". Oh no... so "Panavise" is the brand... OK checking prices for that right now.... oh no     Used ones come from the USA mostly... must be an American product then, which does not help me sourcing it, never mind at a decent price.

OK I put that on the shopping list for... next year. For now I will have to make do with my existing vice that doesn't fit, and make it fit... cheapest option by far it looks like...   Thanks for your suggestions people !   

I've never regretted a penny spent on PanaVise.

They are not cheap-cheap... but compared to some of the other options I've seen, they are quite a good bargain. They are still one of the few quality American tool brands, like Klein and Greenlee. The big, heavy flat base which makes them so handy on a electronics workbench costs ~US$30, then you add the Panavise head you want to that.

Each of these from L-R: Model 301/302 (metal jaws or nylon jaws), Model 350 PCB vise (neoprene jaws), Model 201 PanaVise Jr (reinforced nylon jaws) costs ~$50-70 plus the flat base, aside from the PanaVise Jr which is about US$25 + the flat base. The 201 is by far the one I reach for most often... the small flat jaws are just right for holding little PCBs, switches, connectors, etc for soldering, and the nylon jaws don't mar what you're working on. The notches help hold the edges of PCBs and small round things very firmly as well.



The part I like best about the Panavise ecosystem is how the ball/swivel is separate from whatever head you're using, and also separate from the big flat base or their ginormous C-Clamp base above which you can clamp to a 6x6 if you need to. The heads all have a 5/8"-16mm cylindrical post which just slides into the ball/swivel base. It's not as pretty as a precision-machined ball and socket, but it is a much more flexible design for a mounting point. And a big plus: You can easily take vise head and all loose just by loosening the big thumbscrew. Now you have your work loose in your hand, where you can stick it under a magnifier and inspect what you're working on, or take it to your belt sander, grinder, sink for washing, etc... then put it right back in the same exact position for further work. The really makes the workflow of hand-fitting things just... easy.

Aside from that, making a custom fixture is beyond easy: Start with a 5/8" or 16mm bolt, or even a scrap of 1/2" pipe. Make your fixture on one end, slip the other end into the Panavise base, tighten the big thumbscrew. Boom! seeya. Done! 

   The Proxxon 28-608 that BU508A recommended is a decent hobbyist vise, I've used them. But the ball mounting fixture is not as flexible as the PanaVise, and as I've already spent the money for the Panavise standard ball/swivel bases, I prefer it.

The Proxxon is actually a pretty good deal if you can find it at a vendor who isn't a price-gouger; they're ~US$50-60 over here from Amazon or the Home Depot website. I've seen it marked up to 2x and even 3x that price by some opportunists, however. 

mnem
*fix-ily*

[capt bullshot]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

...

This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

Oh nice, looks like a 400Hz AC source. If you ever heard of synchros and resolvers and aviation instruments, you'll find good use for it.

[capt bullshot]

Edit: I guess you could have a 0° and a 90° transformer, and 3 special unequal output windings per transformer. Then put one bespoke winding form each transformer in series with each other, to have the literal "in-phase" and "quadrature" voltages add up to one output phase. I guess it makes sense, from a time when transformers were cheap compared to semiconductors.

Use your favourite search engine for "Scott T Transformer", this is a clever arrangement to transform 0° / 90° signals to three phase signals.

[mansaxel]

As we're talking about holding stuff, I've got and found myself a new Object Of Desire, the Hot Holder.

https://www.austinmics.com/hot-holder-pro/

A bit pricey, but I think that my fingers could have been a millimeter or so longer and less scarred had I had one 25 years ago...

[mansaxel]

400Hz? I'd say something used in an airplane.

Or anti-airplane. The Bloodhound system used 400Hz mains for all ground equipment. From time to time, one of the Scania 200+ KVA gensets used with Bloodhound here in Sweden turns up and people are confused...

[mnementh]

Ignorance is part of the human condition; the cure is curiosity.

Willful ignorance is the bane of human existence; the only cure is a really big fucking clue-stick, and even then it is only sometimes effective. 



mnem

[Vince]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

...

This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

Oh nice, looks like a 400Hz AC source. If you ever heard of synchros and resolvers and aviation instruments, you'll find good use for it.

Until yesterday when Robert mentionned these words... I had never even heard about them so.... nope, I will never have a use for this thing. Robert might, although he probably has more modern / bettter incarnations of this thing. Would be too heavy to ship it to him too... I see no futre for this thing, it's going to be taken apart I fear....

Still, I want to try to power it up see if I can see the 400 Hz 3 phase outputs on a scope, and play with it a bit. Stay tuned.... 

[ch_scr]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

...

This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

Oh nice, looks like a 400Hz AC source. If you ever heard of synchros and resolvers and aviation instruments, you'll find good use for it.

Until yesterday when Robert mentionned these words... I had never even heard about them so.... nope, I will never have a use for this thing. Robert might, although he probably has more modern / bettter incarnations of this thing. Would be too heavy to ship it to him too... I see no futre for this thing, it's going to be taken apart I fear....

Still, I want to try to power it up see if I can see the 400 Hz 3 phase outputs on a scope, and play with it a bit. Stay tuned.... 

These things are not easy to come by - worst case make it work and sell it for the big bucks.

[Vince]

...A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

EDIT: Rather than cut out on the edge of your bench, perhaps it would be better to screw a bit of 1x1 to the edge so it's flush with the surface. 

         I have these. Well, all 3 heads and 2 of the flat bases. The vises themselves can be swapped between the standard swivel heads without tools. I keep the third swivel base on the shelf in case I need to screw it down somewhere to get a quick lick of work in. I also have a couple leetle ones like yours, and a 5" mechanic's vise bolted to my back bench in the back half of the basement.

They all get used at one time or another. The PanaVise that looks like a regular vise will hold well enough to cut with a Dremel or razor saw or do filing; if I need to do some hacksawing, I just hold it down to the workbench with a big C-clamp on the baseplate.

I like that very much, where can I go buy that, what's the price ? Is it a patented design sold only by the original manufacturer, is it some generic chinese stuff one can buy from multiple sources on merchand websites under a gazillion different "brands". Oh no... so "Panavise" is the brand... OK checking prices for that right now.... oh no     Used ones come from the USA mostly... must be an American product then, which does not help me sourcing it, never mind at a decent price.

OK I put that on the shopping list for... next year. For now I will have to make do with my existing vice that doesn't fit, and make it fit... cheapest option by far it looks like...   Thanks for your suggestions people !   

I've never regretted a penny spent on PanaVise.

They are not cheap-cheap... but compared to some of the other options I've seen, they are quite a good bargain. They are still one of the few quality American tool brands, like Klein and Greenlee. The big, heavy flat base which makes them so handy on a electronics workbench costs ~US$30, then you add the Panavise head you want to that.

Each of these from L-R: Model 301/302 (metal jaws or nylon jaws), Model 350 PCB vise (neoprene jaws), Model 201 PanaVise Jr (reinforced nylon jaws) costs ~$50-70 plus the flat base, aside from the PanaVise Jr which is about US$25 + the flat base. The 201 is by far the one I reach for most often... the small flat jaws are just right for holding little PCBs, switches, connectors, etc for soldering, and the nylon jaws don't mar what you're working on. The notches help hold the edges of PCBs and small round things very firmly as well.



The part I like best about the Panavise ecosystem is how the ball/swivel is separate from whatever head you're using, and also separate from the big flat base or their ginormous C-Clamp base above which you can clamp to a 6x6 if you need to. The heads all have a 5/8"-16mm cylindrical post which just slides into the ball/swivel base. It's not as pretty as a precision-machined ball and socket, but it is a much more flexible design for a mounting point. And a big plus: You can easily take vise head and all loose just by loosening the big thumbscrew. Now you have your work loose in your hand, where you can stick it under a magnifier and inspect what you're working on, or take it to your belt sander, grinder, sink for washing, etc... then put it right back in the same exact position for further work. The really makes the workflow of hand-fitting things just... easy.

Aside from that, making a custom fixture is beyond easy: Start with a 5/8" or 16mm bolt, or even a scrap of 1/2" pipe. Make your fixture on one end, slip the other end into the Panavise base, tighten the big thumbscrew. Boom! seeya. Done! 

You are a good salesman. Looking at your pics, it's readily available direct from the US via Digikey. Prices on youtr pics look cheaper than what I saw when I did a quick search on French Ebay. so I am tempted now. the 50 USD deal with free shipping and included import duties would make it a viable option...

   The Proxxon 28-608 that BU508A recommended is a decent hobbyist vise, I've used them. But the ball mounting fixture is not as flexible as the PanaVise, and as I've already spent the money for the Panavise standard ball/swivel bases, I prefer it.

The Proxxon is actually a pretty good deal if you can find it at a vendor who isn't a price-gouger; they're ~US$50-60 over here from Amazon or the Home Depot website. I've seen it marked up to 2x and even 3x that price by some opportunists, however. 

mnem
*fix-ily*

The German Ebay link BU gave lists it at that kind of price, 36+ Euros + 8 Euros for shipping to France, so 45 EUros, say 50 USD, shipped to me.
I think it could be a stepping stone before a Panavise. OR, I save a bit more, wait a bit more, and get the Panavise directly. But the Panavise sounds like the best value for money overall, so am very tempted. Will probably get one within a year. Would be a worthwhile investment and addition to the lab I think.

[Vince]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

...

This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

Oh nice, looks like a 400Hz AC source. If you ever heard of synchros and resolvers and aviation instruments, you'll find good use for it.

Until yesterday when Robert mentionned these words... I had never even heard about them so.... nope, I will never have a use for this thing. Robert might, although he probably has more modern / bettter incarnations of this thing. Would be too heavy to ship it to him too... I see no futre for this thing, it's going to be taken apart I fear....

Still, I want to try to power it up see if I can see the 400 Hz 3 phase outputs on a scope, and play with it a bit. Stay tuned.... 

These things are not easy to come by - worst case make it work and sell it for the big bucks.

Really ?! You think this antique can sell ?! 

I guess Robert could tell me more about it ....

OK I will try to power it up see what happens...

If it can sell, would be the best option of all I guess. It would make me some money, free some much needed space, and be actually useful to someone who knows what it is...

[mnementh]

I was gonna suggest to rectify the output and use it for a DC power source. Should be easily able to produce 300VDC/100mA output, maybe more. That's nothing to sneeze at! Whip up a quick little box with a 3-ph bridge and some filtering caps, maybe add a cheap digital panel meter for voltage/current... would be very useful on your adventures in the land of hollow-state. 

Or, as ch_scr suggests... find the right market and sell it; might actually help you fund your TEA habit! Offer shipping via eBay Global Shipping and you'll very likely reach somebody willing to pay for what it is rather than what you paid for it. This is the heart of arbitrage.

mnem
 

[Robert763]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

As I was under the bench cutting that notch, all the stuff that I hid under the bench suddenly was smiling at me and reminded me of its existence.

So I noticed this piece of TE that I thought would entertain my TE friends for a few minutes... so you have to guess what it is !!

Bottom line is, you can say whatever you want because your guess is as good as mine, or probably better even  !

It's some random old junk a guy gave me as a free bonus for buying whatever he was selling on leboncoin.fr . Was 4 or 5 years ago. I guess I must have bought an old scope from him, and he threw this weird piece of TE as a gift. didn't have the heart to say " No please keep your junk ". I just don't know how to say no to people... the thought of making them sad if I said no, breaks my heart... so I just say yes and then dispose of the things later as I see fit... I figured well, I can always salvage some parts from it... it's free so nothing to lose after all ! 

So here are some pics.

It looks like some custom piece of TE made by French company " MATRA " for their own / internal purposes. The plaque at the rear says it was made in 1982 but the design inside screams early '70's...
Plaque says it was property of the state. Says it's from the Matra " ENGINS " division. No nothing to do with engines. In French " Engins " refers more to heavy duty industrial special purpose / utility vehicles. Like excavators, bulldozers, big cranes, things like that.... industrial, big, and that moves... no consumer stuff...
Plaque says the device is a " PILOTE MARTEL ". I don't know what a "Martel " is....

It's rack mount, half width but fulllllll length !    At the back, no standard IEC power socket, instead a couple round heavy duty connectors, aircraft industrially looking. Looks the business is what I am saying...
There is a 3 pin one for power input, and the other one has more pins, it's labeled " Output, 400Hz source ".  Next to it, some pencil markings that give the pinout for this connector I think. There are 3 "Phases", two pins for each one, then ground.  So 3 phase 400Hz. Isn't 400Hz for aircraft systems ? Maybe it was used also in the industry at large, not just aerospace ?! 
I think Matra did have an Aerospace division but the plaque says Heavy machinery division, not Aerospace...


Then at the front it reads at the top : " 400Hz 30VA Source ".  OK... so this thing takes mains power maybe, and generates a 400Hz 3 phase power supply, rated at 30VA. Now we are getting somewhere I guess...
There is a meter movement with a voltage scale that goes up to 250V. Also a pot that looks like it's used to fine tune the voltage at 200V within +/- 10%.
Then a rotary switch, 3 positions, unmarked. It just displays '1', '2' or '3'. I guess something to do with the 3 phases...
Then at the bottom a couple banana jacks that say " External Measurements".

So... I guess this thing is a 400Hz 3 phase 30VA power supply, that takes god knows what power as an input, is rack mounted with the output at the rear, and at the front you have jacks to monitor the voltage of each phase, which should be about 200V, and you can fine tune the amplitude within 10%

How cool is that ?

I am not sure....

I think that's the kind of stuff Robert would know about... more than me at least !

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....
I wish I had a Variac, I could bring it up slowly / safely and see how it reacts...

As far  as internal construction and parts to salvage... here goes.

Back half of the instrument looks like the power supply stuff, with filter caps and 3 transformers. A big one and two smaller identical ones.

Front half hosts a back plane that can carry up to 7 boards. 5 are fitted. On the chassis next to each female socket, there is a short description of what each board does, as you can see.

It goes like this, starting with the board nearest the rear of the instrument, progressing forward :

1) 40V 40W
2) +/- 15V
3) Amplifier ' B '
4) Amplifier ' A '
5) 0 to 90° gene(rator ? I guess)

I pulled all 5 boards for you to admire and satisfy your curiosity as well as mine.

The two amplifier boards look identical. They have one SMA looking coax connector. A coax in a power supply ?!

Other than that, on the sides of the instruments we have 3 large heat sinks, each carrying a couple 2N3055 power transistors.  So at least I could salvage that.


This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

I was working so SeanB beat me to it. It's a nice little 30VA 115/200V 3 phase 400Hz bench supply. Mains in 400Hz out.
Probably part of a test set for a small gyroscopic instrument. 30VA would not power much else.
Bit of a shame to break it up but I dont think you will have much use for it. You could use it to run an aircraft type cooling fan but it would be a screamer.

[mnementh]

I've never regretted a penny spent on PanaVise.

   The Proxxon is actually a pretty good deal if you can find it at a vendor who isn't a price-gouger; they're ~US$50-60 over here from Amazon or the Home Depot website. I've seen it marked up to 2x and even 3x that price by some opportunists, however. 

You are a good salesman.

The German Ebay link BU gave lists it at that kind of price, 36+ Euros + 8 Euros for shipping to France, so 45 EUros, say 50 USD, shipped to me. I think it could be a stepping stone before a Panavise. OR, I save a bit more, wait a bit more, and get the Panavise directly. But the Panavise sounds like the best value for money overall, so am very tempted. Will probably get one within a year. Would be a worthwhile investment and addition to the lab I think.

I've worked with my hands for a living all my life. If my experience can help someone else save the misery and money and lessons I've paid and learned the hard way, I'll at least try. 

Yeah, Panavise... it's the big heavy cast flat base with big rubber feet that sucks you in; it's a joy in the hand, and it holds plenty stable for 90% of anything you're ever gonna do on a electronics workbench. And when you need the real-estate it occupies, right back up on the shelf.

I made a "substitute" out of a cheap 4" vise screwed to a old brake rotor once... even painted the damned thing and screwed some rubber feet to the bottom. It worked well for a general-purpose vise, but was too heavy to be convenient to put away and lacked the handy little dishes for components and of course no ball-swivel.

You might try something like that to get you by with the Panavise head and swivel-base of your choosing though; breaking it up into a couple purchases would be a wee bit less painful, and would allow you to use the flat base to pad a parts order for free shipping.

mnem
*toddles of to do something tool-ily*

[Vince]

I was gonna suggest to rectify the output and use it for a DC power source. Should be easily able to produce 300VDC/100mA output, maybe more. That's nothing to sneeze at! Whip up a quick little box with a 3-ph bridge and some filtering caps, maybe add a cheap digital panel meter for voltage/current... would be very useful on your adventures in the land of hollow-state. 

Or, as ch_scr suggests... find the right market and sell it; might actually help you fund your TEA habit! Offer shipping via eBay Global Shipping and you'll very likely reach somebody willing to pay for what it is rather than what you paid for it. This is the heart of arbitrage.

mnem
 

Yes that's an idea but... too big and heavy.  I plan on getting or designing and making a lighter and more compact HV low current PSU, general purpose not just with tubes in mind.
I am now avoiding boat anchors on my bench, not enough space and too heavy.

[mnementh]

I give it two weeks tops before you're doing something where it would be useful. 

mnem

[Robert763]

Vince,
The little 3 phase supply is probably saleable if it works. A small 3 phase 400Hzsupply is quite rare. Note that it should also measure 115V to the common (neutral) connection.
Capt Bulshot and CH-SCR are correct, it appears to generate quadrature signals and then use a Scott-T transformer pair to get 3 phases. Odd that it has 3 heatsinks though. Maybe they control the DC to the two power oscillators to regulate the output voltage. That would reduce power dissipation in the output amps.
Clearly designed when semiconductors cost more than custom transformers.
A few years ago I built a custom 3 phase 200VA supply using a low level 3 phase oscillator driving 3 MOSFET audio power amps with mains toroids in reverse on the outputs. It had control of individual phase voltages for a specific test rig.

[AVGresponding]

"Pilote Martel" implies it may have been used as a bench supply for testing/calibrating the guidance systems for the missiles.

[Vince]

I was working so SeanB beat me to it. It's a nice little 30VA 115/200V 3 phase 400Hz bench supply. Mains in 400Hz out.
Probably part of a test set for a small gyroscopic instrument. 30VA would not power much else.
Bit of a shame to break it up but I dont think you will have much use for it. You could use it to run an aircraft type cooling fan but it would be a screamer.

No not breaking it up just yet... now I have been told it might be sellable ! 

I just powered it up !!! Still alive... but I DID fear for my life 

I probed the 3 pins of that weird pwoer connector at the back. One of the pins was clearly connected to the chassis, so I called that earth...
The other two pins, live and Neutral, I get 20+ Mohms between them, and between each one and earth.

So no short. So I powered it up... via my dim bulb tester.

Imeediatley it light up solid and brigght and the intrument emitted a loud and freaking scary "HV" like noise, " Tggzzz... zzz..... high pitched ". I panicked thinking the caps would blow on me, so I turned the DBT off immediately.  Waited a bit, applied power agzain a few seconds... noise started to diminish, and the DBT got less and less bright hmmmm.... caps reforming eh ?!

After a few quick cycles, eventually the noise stopped. It was coming from the transformers, don't know which one(s), was unclear.

So then started playing with it.

Measured voltage and ripple on all 6 filter caps. Two read about 40V and the other about 20V. Ripple is not stellar but not catastrophic either. Like 200mV at first, then some dropper down to tens of mV after a few minutes.

Then I looked at the meter movement at the front. It's dead as a dodo. Device is not dead though : if I measure the voltage on the front jacks I do get something plausible : using the fine tune pot I cna vary the voltage between 185V and 230V. Nominal is supposed to be 200V, so that's good it looks like. so I set it to spot on 200V. That was with the rotary switch set to position ' 3 '. If I then switch to positions ' 1 ' or ' 2 ', I get 100V instead of 200V.

As I was fiddling with the fine tune pot, it would randomly make the transfomer make this scary noise again ! Scared the shit out of me.  Again as soon as the noise would come up, in unison, 100% correlation, the DBT would lit up brightly. However after exercising the pot a few times from lock to lock, eventually the transformers would remain quiet at all times.

so I started to be a bit, just a bit, less scared that this instrument would blow ni my face.

So I then got adventurous and started to direct my attention at the rear of the instrument this time, and scopes the outputs.
2 pins for each pahse, and oen pin for ground. I made sure the ground pin was connected to earth/chassis, which it was. Gave me some confidence that I could probe all these outputs without blowing my scope.... So here it is below.

That's Phase 2 and 3. I don't know why there are two pins for each phase... maybe floating ? Or maybe simply connected together, simple as that... will need to figure that out. Anyway when I probe either pin of a given phase, respective to ground, I get exactly the same signal.

so as you can see they are 180° apart not 120°. Oh well....
Outputs are nice, clean sine wave, stable in both amplitude and frequency. Frequency spot on at 400Hz, so that part is working...
These two phases are not exactly the same amplitude. One is slightly over 150V peak, the other slightly under. Not the end of the world I guess...

What about Phase #1  you ask ? Good point.... this one definitely has a PROBLEM : amplitude is only 4.4V AVG on the DMM ! Also, amplitude is unstable, on the scope it "wobbles" between 6 and 7 Volts peak, or thereabouts. Looks like a capacitive effect to me. Maybe this particular phase runs off of its own filter caps and they are worse than the others. That might explain the wobble but won't explain the massive drop in amplitude.... so I guess..... oh no... I guess I have now officially a new TE to fix ?!!     

No schematics no nothing and zero knowledge of how these things work at all    ... wish me luck

[Ice-Tea]

🎵🎶Someone is getting a package🎵🎶
🎵🎶Someone is getting a package🎵🎶

(No, I didn't forget)

[mansaxel]

So I then got adventurous and started to direct my attention at the rear of the instrument this time, and scopes the outputs.
2 pins for each pahse, and oen pin for ground. I made sure the ground pin was connected to earth/chassis, which it was. Gave me some confidence that I could probe all these outputs without blowing my scope.... So here it is below.

That's Phase 2 and 3. I don't know why there are two pins for each phase... maybe floating ? Or maybe simply connected together, simple as that... will need to figure that out. Anyway when I probe either pin of a given phase, respective to ground, I get exactly the same signal.

so as you can see they are 180° apart not 120°. Oh well....
Outputs are nice, clean sine wave, stable in both amplitude and frequency. Frequency spot on at 400Hz, so that part is working...
These two phases are not exactly the same amplitude. One is slightly over 150V peak, the other slightly under. Not the end of the world I guess...

What about Phase #1  you ask ? Good point.... this one definitely has a PROBLEM : amplitude is only 4.4V AVG on the DMM ! Also, amplitude is unstable, on the scope it "wobbles" between 6 and 7 Volts peak, or thereabouts. Looks like a capacitive effect to me. Maybe this particular phase runs off of its own filter caps and they are worse than the others. That might explain the wobble but won't explain the massive drop in amplitude.... so I guess..... oh no... I guess I have now officially a new TE to fix ?!!     

No schematics no nothing and zero knowledge of how these things work at all    ... wish me luck

What do you get when measuring (Use a DMM here! This is where the ScopeMeter style scopes shine.) between the phases?

One b0rkened phase sounds like you're having a blown output. All fuses OK?

"slightly over 150V PtP" is not that far from

Code: [Select]

treize:Kicad mansaxel$ dc
5
k
200
3v/
2v*p
163.29897


[mnementh]

so I guess..... oh no... I guess I have now officially a new TE to fix ?!!     

No schematics no nothing and zero knowledge of how these things work at all    ... wish me luck

At this point, I'm going to offer one bit of sage advice given by grand-dad that has served me well, and that I have suffered a time or two for ignoring it:

Always be a one-handed electrician. 

mnem
In other words, make sure you are never the shortest path to ground.

[mnementh]

So I then got adventurous and started to direct my attention at the rear of the instrument this time, and scopes the outputs.
2 pins for each pahse, and oen pin for ground. I made sure the ground pin was connected to earth/chassis, which it was. Gave me some confidence that I could probe all these outputs without blowing my scope.... So here it is below.

That's Phase 2 and 3. I don't know why there are two pins for each phase... maybe floating ? Or maybe simply connected together, simple as that... will need to figure that out. Anyway when I probe either pin of a given phase, respective to ground, I get exactly the same signal.

so as you can see they are 180° apart not 120°. Oh well....
Outputs are nice, clean sine wave, stable in both amplitude and frequency. Frequency spot on at 400Hz, so that part is working...
These two phases are not exactly the same amplitude. One is slightly over 150V peak, the other slightly under. Not the end of the world I guess...

What about Phase #1  you ask ? Good point.... this one definitely has a PROBLEM : amplitude is only 4.4V AVG on the DMM ! Also, amplitude is unstable, on the scope it "wobbles" between 6 and 7 Volts peak, or thereabouts. Looks like a capacitive effect to me. Maybe this particular phase runs off of its own filter caps and they are worse than the others. That might explain the wobble but won't explain the massive drop in amplitude.... so I guess..... oh no... I guess I have now officially a new TE to fix ?!!     

No schematics no nothing and zero knowledge of how these things work at all    ... wish me luck

What do you get when measuring (Use a DMM here! This is where the ScopeMeter style scopes shine.) between the phases?

One b0rkened phase sounds like you're having a blown output. All fuses OK?

"slightly over 150V PtP" is not that far from

Code: [Select]

treize:Kicad mansaxel$ dc
5
k
200
3v/
2v*p
163.29897


Hmmmm... *remembers back to the description of the backplane assembly*

Vince, is it possible you're missing a amplifier PCB? I remember you saying there were only 2...

mnem

[Peter_O]

Just wanted to look around at discord and tried to register for an account.

But obviously I'm to old to manage the capcha. Not able to identify bicycles, water planes nor trucks. 
Or maybe I'm a machine and should just join my TE on the shelf, then do the final shutdown? 

Edit: Did a little research. Problem seems to be common. Advice is to reset lots of stuff on the system: change IP, delete all cookies, bla bla ...; basically they suggest to do a fresh and complete windows reinstallation before able to use discord. What a crap. 

Ok. This world machine is indifferent about mine beeing human or machine by telling me my mind or the world might be indifferent about bicyles or water planes. Maybe i should just try to cross the river Elbe by bike today afternoon? 

What will happen? Place your bid:
a - the bike will swim
b - the bike will fly
c -captcha will be asking to mark submarines next time

Think I'll just stay away from that kind of badly implemented sh...

Are you trying to do your business through a VPN...? It seems lately, everything on the intardnet gets huffy about that. Particularly Google.

mnem
fuck those traffic lights anyways.

Same PC, same network (btw.: no vpn), but better today: got registered ... kind of ...
When logging in a pop up appears: "Irgendetwas is hier merkwürdig" ^= "Something looks peculiar", then asking for a phone number!

What's next? Salary? Brand of car? Taxes payed on private submarines?

Why can't they list all information needed in the register process?
In german we call it "Salami-Taktik".

Now I cannot even log on to delete my disfunctional account.
Im done with that one for the time being.

Thx to all of you for the hints and advice.

[Vince]

Vince, is it possible you're missing a amplifier PCB? I remember you saying there were only 2...

mnem

Hmmm... I would venture saying that no, based on the favct that the two empty slots on the back plane are not marked. I have slots marked for Amp A and Amp B, but that's all.
Also, these amp boards have a coax connector. A wire goes to them, coming from the chassis. I have only 2 coax cables in the chassis, not 3.

So I think the instrument is complete, no missing card. I will start working on it a bit this evening. Just a bit, it's already, past 20H30 here.

Will try to figure out the 3 heat sink and the x2 2N3055 T03 trannies on all of them. 3 H/S, 3 phases.... maybe the 2N3055 are shot on one of them.
Will try to go for the simple, generic stuff first, low hanging fruits.... hoping to get lucky.