Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

Wow, thanks a bunch ! 

So you managed to make the " TO-3 " ovoid shape, so it's possible then, cool ! 

The trick to making non-rectangular PCBs is to draw the outline as a graphic line while having the Edge.cut layer selected.  And, to make the outline a continous line...

Now I need to see if there is a function to rotate pads or objects, or groups of objects, by XX degrees, so I can arrange the 3 terminals for the sections of the cap.

In PCB layout mode, select the part, right-click and choose Properties, and you can alter degrees freely.  Just checked, because I haven't tried it; though assumed that was the way, and it was ;-)

[capt bullshot]

- A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

The one and only:



https://www.bernstein-werkzeuge.de/produkte/produktdetails/9-205-kugelgelenk-schraubstock

[Robert763]

As far as I'm aware, "vice" could be defined as say....TEA...and a "vise" is a device for holding work pieces in the shop. 

It's all a question of whether you're using your vice/vise to hold a king dick or not.





What!?! it's a well known brand of British spanner. What did you think I meant?

Don't you mean WRENCH? 

I knew exactly what you were going to say or show. I have several King Dicks

[Vince]

- A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

The one and only:



https://www.bernstein-werkzeuge.de/produkte/produktdetails/9-205-kugelgelenk-schraubstock

Their website says the clamp can accommodate benches up to 80mm thick, so it would work on my 65mm bench, cool but.... I had a quick look for prices and they cost literally hundreds of Euros. Even a used one over 100 Euros ! 
Not in my budget ! 

[Vince]

Wow, thanks a bunch ! 

So you managed to make the " TO-3 " ovoid shape, so it's possible then, cool ! 

Now I need to see if there is a function to rotate pads or objects, or groups of objects, by XX degrees, so I can arrange the 3 terminals for the sections of the cap.

In PCB layout mode, select the part, right-click and choose Properties, and you can alter degrees freely.  Just checked, because I haven't tried it; though assumed that was the way, and it was ;-)

Sounds like ti sis for rotating the footprint around its own center rather than a "remote" arbitrary center of rotation ? I think Zoli gave the answer though, will try that today....

[Vince]

...
Now I need to see if there is a function to rotate pads or objects, or groups of objects, by XX degrees, so I can arrange the 3 terminals for the sections of the cap.
...

Yes, there is a function, and(not surprisingly, considering all the inconsistencies/sarcasm off) is called move exactly(shift+m; kicad6.0.x); the third line specifies the angle, the fourth the centre of the rotation. I've used a lot when I've made a pentagon shaped PCB; Ctrl+Z is your friend.
Edit: it works on multiple selected items, either as move, or rotate; all layers included.

Hi Zoli,

Thanks, sounds good, will try that. 

I don't have v6.0 as I understand this would require me to update my old Ubuntu 16.04 which is not going to happen, as I have already gone down that path last year when I tried to install the then latest v5. Didn't go well at all and had to revert to my old Ubuntu 16.04... to only then eventually find out that Kicad v5 was installnig and working just fine on it... I did'nt even need to mess with trying to upgrade Ubuntu to begin with !

I will upgrade to v6.0 only once I have also upgraded my computer and Ubuntu with it as no choice sadly with newer H/W. I know last year I said I would have upgraded bloody computer by noww but... that was before I knew that 2 months later I would lose my job....   So no money to upgrade the computer now, other priorities... like buying food 

But I think you did that Pentagon a while back didn't you ? Back then you were using Kicad v5 so.... I should have this function too then.

Will give it a go later today !

[Vince]

...A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

EDIT: Rather than cut out on the edge of your bench, perhaps it would be better to screw a bit of 1x1 to the edge so it's flush with the surface. 

      

I have these. Well, all 3 heads and 2 of the flat bases. The vises themselves can be swapped between the standard swivel heads without tools. I keep the third swivel base on the shelf in case I need to screw it down somewhere to get a quick lick of work in. I also have a couple leetle ones like yours, and a 5" mechanic's vise bolted to my back bench in the back half of the basement.

They all get used at one time or another. The PanaVise that looks like a regular vise will hold well enough to cut with a Dremel or razor saw or do filing; if I need to do some hacksawing, I just hold it down to the workbench with a big C-clamp on the baseplate.

mnem
 

I like that very much, where can I go buy that, what's the price ? Is it a patended design sold only by the original manufacturer, is it some generic chinese stuff one can buy from multiple sources on merchand websites under a gazillion different "brands". Oh no... so "Panavise" is the brand... OK checking prices for that right now.... oh no     Used ones come from the USA mostly... must be an American product then, which does not help me sourcing it, never mind at a decent price.

OK I put that on the shopping list for... next year. For now I will have to make do with my existing vice that doesn't fit, and make it fit... cheapest option by far it looks like...

Thanks for your suggestions people !   

[bd139]

hp 3310A sine wave output problem part two.

As I mentioned last night the 3310A hadn't been used for a while, I tested it and found the sine wave output was almost a flat line. I dug out the dead tree manual earlier and checked the PSU rails first, no problems there.


Onto the relevant circuit diagrams, for the output from the triangle stage (working OK), this goes to the sine shaping network on the A3 board and the sine shaper amplifier on the A2 board.



The front panel controls were set as specified for the DC voltage checks, I then checked the voltages for the transistors (Q1-Q6) on the A3 sine shaper network section, all voltages were fine here.

I moved onto the A2 sine shaper amplifier section and checked the voltages around Q1-Q4, some voltages around Q2/3 were way out, as shown below.



It was switched off and I checked for the problems with the DMM on diode check, Q2 was found to be shorted C-E, another part marked 4-071 (aka 1854-0071) a common faulty part in hp TE of this vintage.


The book says they used aged parts for Q1 & Q2 of 5080-4668, no chance of finding any of those.


So I found a used 4-071 from a scrap board, pinout was verified with the recently acquired Peak DCA and compared with the working Q1, they are the same part & manufacturer but do indeed have a different pinout, again typical of hp they used whatever met their spec & had them labelled the same. 
4-071 is a selected 2N3704 according to the pdf 3310A manual, I think I've seen several other standard parts they used for this one.


Gain/hFE measured by the Peak DCA was 423 for Q1 and 430 for the replacement Q2, the salvaged part was fitted, the voltage at R13 was +6.28V & R16 +6.97V, both back in spec.


Got the scope out again, the sine function was back, I rechecked all functions (except the VCO input) and found no other problems. 


David

Nice job and enjoyable read. Please keep these up

[Brumby]

Vise is American, vice is the proper English spelling   

... ... so I stick to that.

 

[mansaxel]

But I think you did that Pentagon a while back didn't you ? Back then you were using Kicad v5 so.... I should have this function too then.

Will give it a go later today !

The Zoli method works in my 5.something too.

As with all CAD it requires that much immersion and focus that it is not a casual tool by any means. I find I can get simple things done without much ramp-up (like a simple schematic; the schematic editor is easier since there are less problems of interaction) but more complex tasks require me to sort of get in the mood.

[Zoli]

...
Now I need to see if there is a function to rotate pads or objects, or groups of objects, by XX degrees, so I can arrange the 3 terminals for the sections of the cap.
...

Yes, there is a function, and(not surprisingly, considering all the inconsistencies/sarcasm off) is called move exactly(shift+m; kicad6.0.x); the third line specifies the angle, the fourth the centre of the rotation. I've used a lot when I've made a pentagon shaped PCB; Ctrl+Z is your friend.
Edit: it works on multiple selected items, either as move, or rotate; all layers included.

Hi Zoli,

Thanks, sounds good, will try that. 

I don't have v6.0 as I understand this would require me to update my old Ubuntu 16.04 which is not going to happen, as I have already gone down that path last year when I tried to install the then latest v5. Didn't go well at all and had to revert to my old Ubuntu 16.04... to only then eventually find out that Kicad v5 was installnig and working just fine on it... I did'nt even need to mess with trying to upgrade Ubuntu to begin with !

I will upgrade to v6.0 only once I have also upgraded my computer and Ubuntu with it as no choice sadly with newer H/W. I know last year I said I would have upgraded bloody computer by noww but... that was before I knew that 2 months later I would lose my job....   So no money to upgrade the computer now, other priorities... like buying food 

But I think you did that Pentagon a while back didn't you ? Back then you were using Kicad v5 so.... I should have this function too then.

Will give it a go later today !

Yes Vince, the function is available in KiCad5.1.x; the name is the same, but the shortcut key is different, IIRC; that's why I'm giving the name(move exactly). To get the shortcut key: open PCBNew,  go: Help->List Hotkeys.

[Vince]

But I think you did that Pentagon a while back didn't you ? Back then you were using Kicad v5 so.... I should have this function too then.

Will give it a go later today !

The Zoli method works in my 5.something too.

As with all CAD it requires that much immersion and focus that it is not a casual tool by any means. I find I can get simple things done without much ramp-up (like a simple schematic; the schematic editor is easier since there are less problems of interaction) but more complex tasks require me to sort of get in the mood.

Yes takes time. That's why I grab every opportunity to do small projects on Kicad. Did my first little board last year, now this thing, and soon something else.
This way I get more and more confident with the basics and can slowly,progressively  increase the complexity and scale of the projects.

[Vince]

VIce is fixed : cut a notch in the wooden beam. Sorry Dwagon.
It's small enough not to endanger the solidity of the bench, not even remotely. Beam is 150mm wide, two of them, and the notch is only 30x35mm.

Works beautifully. Best 10 minutes I spent recently, excellent return on investment 

Now, that means I could fit BU's Proxxon FMZ, its C clamp would now be able to fit in that notch, and it would give me a cool ball joint vice for only 45 Euros shipped, which I can afford. Well not right now, but soon enough. I don't need a vice very often for now, so zero hurry. Being able to now easily and quickly fit / use my existing vice is enough to bring me joy presently. 

[capt bullshot]

- A small vice that can be quickly and easily be secured to the bench.

The one and only:



https://www.bernstein-werkzeuge.de/produkte/produktdetails/9-205-kugelgelenk-schraubstock

Their website says the clamp can accommodate benches up to 80mm thick, so it would work on my 65mm bench, cool but.... I had a quick look for prices and they cost literally hundreds of Euros. Even a used one over 100 Euros ! 
Not in my budget ! 

Yes indeed. Consider yourself lucky if you catch a good used one for a reasonable price tag.
It's just the "Rohde&Schwarz" among the bench vices.

[TERRA Operative]

VIce is fixed : cut a notch in the wooden beam. Sorry Dwagon.
It's small enough not to endanger the solidity of the bench, not even remotely. Beam is 150mm wide, two of them, and the notch is only 30x35mm.

Works beautifully. Best 10 minutes I spent recently, excellent return on investment 

Now, that means I could fit BU's Proxxon FMZ, its C clamp would now be able to fit in that notch, and it would give me a cool ball joint vice for only 45 Euros shipped, which I can afford. Well not right now, but soon enough. I don't need a vice very often for now, so zero hurry. Being able to now easily and quickly fit / use my existing vice is enough to bring me joy presently. 

So, no masking tape?..... 


 

[Vince]

Oh quick impromptu tear down ! 

As I was under the bench cutting that notch, all the stuff that I hid under the bench suddenly was smiling at me and reminded me of its existence.

So I noticed this piece of TE that I thought would entertain my TE friends for a few minutes... so you have to guess what it is !!

Bottom line is, you can say whatever you want because your guess is as good as mine, or probably better even  !

It's some random old junk a guy gave me as a free bonus for buying whatever he was selling on leboncoin.fr . Was 4 or 5 years ago. I guess I must have bought an old scope from him, and he threw this weird piece of TE as a gift. didn't have the heart to say " No please keep your junk ". I just don't know how to say no to people... the thought of making them sad if I said no, breaks my heart... so I just say yes and then dispose of the things later as I see fit... I figured well, I can always salvage some parts from it... it's free so nothing to lose after all ! 

So here are some pics.

It looks like some custom piece of TE made by French company " MATRA " for their own / internal purposes. The plaque at the rear says it was made in 1982 but the design inside screams early '70's...
Plaque says it was property of the state. Says it's from the Matra " ENGINS " division. No nothing to do with engines. In French " Engins " refers more to heavy duty industrial special purpose / utility vehicles. Like excavators, bulldozers, big cranes, things like that.... industrial, big, and that moves... no consumer stuff...
Plaque says the device is a " PILOTE MARTEL ". I don't know what a "Martel " is....

It's rack mount, half width but fulllllll length !    At the back, no standard IEC power socket, instead a couple round heavy duty connectors, aircraft industrially looking. Looks the business is what I am saying...
There is a 3 pin one for power input, and the other one has more pins, it's labeled " Output, 400Hz source ".  Next to it, some pencil markings that give the pinout for this connector I think. There are 3 "Phases", two pins for each one, then ground.  So 3 phase 400Hz. Isn't 400Hz for aircraft systems ? Maybe it was used also in the industry at large, not just aerospace ?! 
I think Matra did have an Aerospace division but the plaque says Heavy machinery division, not Aerospace...


Then at the front it reads at the top : " 400Hz 30VA Source ".  OK... so this thing takes mains power maybe, and generates a 400Hz 3 phase power supply, rated at 30VA. Now we are getting somewhere I guess...
There is a meter movement with a voltage scale that goes up to 250V. Also a pot that looks like it's used to fine tune the voltage at 200V within +/- 10%.
Then a rotary switch, 3 positions, unmarked. It just displays '1', '2' or '3'. I guess something to do with the 3 phases...
Then at the bottom a couple banana jacks that say " External Measurements".

So... I guess this thing is a 400Hz 3 phase 30VA power supply, that takes god knows what power as an input, is rack mounted with the output at the rear, and at the front you have jacks to monitor the voltage of each phase, which should be about 200V, and you can fine tune the amplitude within 10%

How cool is that ?

I am not sure....

I think that's the kind of stuff Robert would know about... more than me at least !

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....
I wish I had a Variac, I could bring it up slowly / safely and see how it reacts...

As far  as internal construction and parts to salvage... here goes.

Back half of the instrument looks like the power supply stuff, with filter caps and 3 transformers. A big one and two smaller identical ones.

Front half hosts a back plane that can carry up to 7 boards. 5 are fitted. On the chassis next to each female socket, there is a short description of what each board does, as you can see.

It goes like this, starting with the board nearest the rear of the instrument, progressing forward :

1) 40V 40W
2) +/- 15V
3) Amplifier ' B '
4) Amplifier ' A '
5) 0 to 90° gene(rator ? I guess)

I pulled all 5 boards for you to admire and satisfy your curiosity as well as mine.

The two amplifier boards look identical. They have one SMA looking coax connector. A coax in a power supply ?!

Other than that, on the sides of the instruments we have 3 large heat sinks, each carrying a couple 2N3055 power transistors.  So at least I could salvage that.


This Tear Down was brought to you by ElectroFrog. You shall now resume your normal activities.

[TERRA Operative]

400Hz? I'd say something used in an airplane.

[bd139]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

Good teardown though.

Not sure of the application of it but as TERRA Operative says, definitely aviation related.

[Vince]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

I could stream it live, that would solve that potential death problem !

[med6753]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

I could stream it live, that would solve that potential death problem !

Might I suggest a warning phone call to the fire dept and EMT's. 

[Brumby]

Yeah..... Camera in the room with the unit and you in another - watching via a monitor, with remote power switch and fire extinguisher at the ready.

Oh - and close the door in between before turning the power on.

[SeanB]

3 phase aircraft power supply unit, 30VA, probably has 230VAC input to it, seeing as it only has 2A input mains fuses. Probably useful if you have 3 phase avionics to power, as it will have a sine wave output, and from the looks of it dates to the mid 1970's.

Would have been part of a ground service unit test bench for setting up and servicing avionics, from the age and looks Mirage III era test gear, which was made mostly by Matra and Dassault group.

[Cerebus]

Wow, thanks a bunch ! 

So you managed to make the " TO-3 " ovoid shape, so it's possible then, cool ! 

Now I need to see if there is a function to rotate pads or objects, or groups of objects, by XX degrees, so I can arrange the 3 terminals for the sections of the cap.

In PCB layout mode, select the part, right-click and choose Properties, and you can alter degrees freely.  Just checked, because I haven't tried it; though assumed that was the way, and it was ;-)

Sounds like ti sis for rotating the footprint around its own center rather than a "remote" arbitrary center of rotation ? I think Zoli gave the answer though, will try that today....

Rotation about an arbitrary centre is just the composition of rotation about a centre and then a translation, so either way will do it.

[Specmaster]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

Good teardown though.

Not sure of the application of it but as TERRA Operative says, definitely aviation related.

Possibly RF related as well with those SMA connectors?

[ch_scr]

Should I try to power it from 240V mains see if it explodes ?....

Only if you have a video camera handy and are alive enough to upload it to YouTube afterwards 

I could stream it live, that would solve that potential death problem !

Interesting device! The cards are marked in the cage and architecture is interesting - only two transformers for three phases? A generator for 0° and 90° signals? Only two amplifiers (with SMA each to carry a drive signal to the half-bridge power stages - or center tapped transformer and a transistor on each end?) Maybe one of the big black cooler is for a linear regulator for bus voltage, and the other two are output stages. But how would one get three 120° shifted phases from such an arragement?

Edit: I guess you could have a 0° and a 90° transformer, and 3 special unequal output windings per transformer. Then put one bespoke winding form each transformer in series with each other, to have the literal "in-phase" and "quadrature" voltages add up to one output phase. I guess it makes sense, from a time when transformers were cheap compared to semiconductors.