Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Zoli]

...


Aside from the CRT not centered in the bezel and the ERASE button not registering, it passes all self-tests and I can get into the HPIB Menu, so that's alive. When I have more time, I'll get into the hidden service menus and make sure everything looks shipshape there.
...

You've promised Tetris; where is it?
P.S.: long time ago, in my life at Solectron, it was a semi-abandoned line with quite a few HP54600's; when I was bored, I've started and left Tetris on their screens, to confuse the onlookers
Edit: nixiefreqq was faster...

[mansaxel]

Pendulum is what remains of the TE part of Philips Teleindustrier AB in Järfälla, later Fluke, (the T&M alliance times) so there's a lineage to the Philips counters of yore.  The rest of Philips Teleindustrier in Sweden is now SAAB, and they make defence electronics, mostly integrated battle management systems for naval use, like for submarines (the actual Kvikkalkul application, even though rumour has it they write in Ada. ) .

And (supposed I don't mix up things) a shoulder weapon called "Carl Gustaf". The Swedish variation of "Panzerfaust".

The Grg m/48 (official name of the Carl Gustaf) is a multiple use weapon, more like the bazooka. The Panzerfaust equivalent would be the Pansarskott 86, internationally known as the AT4. Also a SAAB product these days..

SAAB is about the only defence industry we've got left, except for BAE Hägglunds. SAAB's absorbed Bofors, FFV, Telub, PEAB, CVA, EMW, and a bunch of other private or public technology centres in the defence area. They make airplanes, robots (including the NLAW), computer systems, radars, artillery, and so on.

[AVGresponding]

Ok I bought something already. It's cheap, it's shit, but it has LEDs and runs off 12V DC and has no unobtainium parts but it's Griefkit and I felt sorry for it . But has tinker value and can totalise...

I've an Agilent U1604A with a dead front end if you get bored...   

Or perhaps a dead Tek 465? 

I’ve mentally cleansed myself from previous Tektronix repairs now so I am ready for another 4xx 

I am strictly purchasing old kit now. Old, mostly discrete and analogue or TTL etc where possible.

The U1604A isn't a Tek, and it has analogue and TTL inside...         

[Robert763]

Ok I bought something already. It's cheap, it's shit, but it has LEDs and runs off 12V DC and has no unobtainium parts but it's Griefkit and I felt sorry for it . But has tinker value and can totalise...

I've an Agilent U1604A with a dead front end if you get bored...   

Or perhaps a dead Tek 465? 

I’ve mentally cleansed myself from previous Tektronix repairs now so I am ready for another 4xx 

I am strictly purchasing old kit now. Old, mostly discrete and analogue or TTL etc where possible.

I still have your name on that 7603 7623 and PIs collection.........

[bd139]

I still have your name on that 7603 7623 and PIs collection.........

Cool  . Let me move house first. Might not have room for it yet 

[McBryce]

Time to give the old HP scope a much needed bath !

Pulled the CRT and all the tubes, and out in the back yard.
Took me a freaking hour to clean, still can't believe it.
I couldn't evrn get to all the nooks and crannies because of the way it's put together but.. I did my best. Detergent and rinsing water were under pressure so even though I could not get a brush in some tight places, at the least I could get some hot detergent under pressure everywhere, and rince properly. So all of the disgusting black stuff cooked everywhere, is now gone.
Proper cleaning would require removal of the CRT shield, mains transformer, all the filter can caps, trigger switch assembly, sweep swtich assembly, at the least. Not happening.

It's clean enough as it is. All the neon bulbs on the main board are'nt gooey black anymore... they are acutally clean clear glass, I was amazed... wiringharness much cleaner as well. Wires actually have colours now... incredible.

Looks much cleaner and pleasing to look at now.... presently drying in the sun with a slight breeze.

It probably will never work again now... but at least it will be clean now.

Stupid me, it has NEVER worked to begin with, so can't be worse !

Are the new foundations in preparation for a serious boat-anchor collection?

McBryce.

[Vince]

Sadly no ! 

I am not Carlson ! 

Garage will be just that.. .a garage. 60m2 or so.

A third of that will be to store a hopefully future week-end car.

A second third to store all the tools, fit a workbench, and also at long last a little woodworking corner with a nice custom made heavy duty bench and a few stationary machines.

The last third will be to relocate the water heater, washing machine and drying machine to free some room in the house (because it's too small, only 60m2 like the garage, but I live alone so it's OK). Also store food, install a freezer because no space to put one in the kitchen inside the house. Also store a dozen bags of wood pellets in winter for the heater, and some random miscellaneous junk (travel bags, suit cases, space hungry rarely used stuff like that).

All in all.... I have planned / can afford to devote a 4 meter long shelving unit in the garage, to store electronic gear. I think that should be enough to store my current collection of glowing Tek scopes, and all the rest of my TE waiting restoration, fixing, or just stored long term for parts.. as well as some non TE electronic stuff like old computer screens, old computers, old CD players, a VCR, random electronic stuff.

So basically that future storage space, though it's still far from existing just yet... is already FULL.

So that's why I am now already starting to change my TE "strategy", mindset : can't afford to collect too many boat anchors any more. I am becoming more and more picky about what I buy, and I favour more modern equipment because they are much more compact, like this HP sig gen I just got the other day.

I am now also starting to get used to the idea that if I buy a new TE, then I need to sell / get rid of an existing TE, to keep storage space under control.

Basically, reality is starting to strike : I have limited space and must adjust my TE collection and "policy" , so that it fits that space.

I wish I had money for a larger house, larger land and 3 times larger garage... but I don't. So I do the best I can with what I have... as discussed earlier this year, our British cousins have even much less space than I do, most of them, because of silly high property prices, even though they have two salaries or pensions at home, and a proper job, neither of which I have... so I consider myself lucky in the grand scheme of things...

[Peter_O]

Well if you want those connectors and are willing to pay the additional shipping to Deutschland (about $20 USD) then send me a PM and we'll get the order in.   

The connectors are a pretty standard Phoenix Contact part, can't see why you wouldn't find them in Germany, same for the fuses. The only thing to bear in mind with the Phoenix Contact offerings is to make sure you measure the pitch correctly; 5.00mm looks very much like 5.08mm...



EDIT: If RS do them, can't imagine Reichelt or whoever not stocking them.

I know, this may sound strange to you.
but there is a good reason for going with that original Keysight labelled atuff: liability. not holding an EE degree someone could actually say that I was negligent in obtaining something which does not have the original part number if indeed something went wrong. Problem is: without the EE degree I would have considerable burden of proof. I won't by using original parts for
the PSU.
for this amount of money involved it is not worth taking any risk. Why am I so anal about it ? cut I been there done that...

For these ones it's simple and save.
Within the original keysight N5700 manual
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/pdf/n6700b_manual.pdf

they wrote on page 25:
>>
12 A Output Connector plug One 12 A, 4-pin connector plug for connecting power and sense
leads. Used in all except N6731B, N6741B, N6753A-N6756A,
N6763A-N6766A, N6773A, N678xA SMU.
Keysight 1253-5826
Phoenix Contact MSTB 2,5/4-S
<<

Threre you have it.

[tggzzz]

I still have your name on that 7603 7623 and PIs collection.........

Cool  . Let me move house first. Might not have room for it yet 

Moving toward central London and might have room for TE? Wow.

I shall console myself with the concept of having a better quality of life elsewhere!

[Robert763]

Well if you want those connectors and are willing to pay the additional shipping to Deutschland (about $20 USD) then send me a PM and we'll get the order in.   

The connectors are a pretty standard Phoenix Contact part, can't see why you wouldn't find them in Germany, same for the fuses. The only thing to bear in mind with the Phoenix Contact offerings is to make sure you measure the pitch correctly; 5.00mm looks very much like 5.08mm...



EDIT: If RS do them, can't imagine Reichelt or whoever not stocking them.

I know, this may sound strange to you.
but there is a good reason for going with that original Keysight labelled atuff: liability. not holding an EE degree someone could actually say that I was negligent in obtaining something which does not have the original part number if indeed something went wrong. Problem is: without the EE degree I would have considerable burden of proof. I won't by using original parts for
the PSU.
for this amount of money involved it is not worth taking any risk. Why am I so anal about it ? cut I been there done that...

For these ones it's simple and save.
Within the original keysight N5700 manual
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/pdf/n6700b_manual.pdf

they wrote on page 25:
>>
12 A Output Connector plug One 12 A, 4-pin connector plug for connecting power and sense
leads. Used in all except N6731B, N6741B, N6753A-N6756A,
N6763A-N6766A, N6773A, N678xA SMU.
Keysight 1253-5826
Phoenix Contact MSTB 2,5/4-S
<<

Threre you have it.

No you don't. That is not a full PC part number and most importantly it does not define the contact pitch.....

Edit the HPAK part appears to be a MSTB 2,5/ 4-STF IF the description in Keysight's PartsFinder of 5mm pitch is correct.
These parts don't even have numbers marked on them so it's hard to confirm. Careful measurement is required. It's only 0.24mm difference across a 3 pin connector 

[m k]

Is my new, almost safe vfo part a commercial product?

[Specmaster]

I still have your name on that 7603 7623 and PIs collection.........

Cool  . Let me move house first. Might not have room for it yet 

Moving toward central London and might have room for TE? Wow.

I shall console myself with the concept of having a better quality of life elsewhere!

Wow indeed, is that even possible to have space for TE, the closer to the city you go, the more expensive the property gets and also generally smaller and looks more like flatland with zero garden space.

[med6753]

Wow indeed, is that even possible to have space for TE, the closer to the city you go, the more expensive the property gets and also generally smaller and looks more like flatland with zero garden space.

Perish the thought!  What's a proper English home without the obligatory English garden?

It will look like my apartment. 

[Peter_O]

Well if you want those connectors and are willing to pay the additional shipping to Deutschland (about $20 USD) then send me a PM and we'll get the order in.   

The connectors are a pretty standard Phoenix Contact part, can't see why you wouldn't find them in Germany, same for the fuses. The only thing to bear in mind with the Phoenix Contact offerings is to make sure you measure the pitch correctly; 5.00mm looks very much like 5.08mm...



EDIT: If RS do them, can't imagine Reichelt or whoever not stocking them.

I know, this may sound strange to you.
but there is a good reason for going with that original Keysight labelled atuff: liability. not holding an EE degree someone could actually say that I was negligent in obtaining something which does not have the original part number if indeed something went wrong. Problem is: without the EE degree I would have considerable burden of proof. I won't by using original parts for
the PSU.
for this amount of money involved it is not worth taking any risk. Why am I so anal about it ? cut I been there done that...

For these ones it's simple and save.
Within the original keysight N5700 manual
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/pdf/n6700b_manual.pdf

they wrote on page 25:
>>
12 A Output Connector plug One 12 A, 4-pin connector plug for connecting power and sense
leads. Used in all except N6731B, N6741B, N6753A-N6756A,
N6763A-N6766A, N6773A, N678xA SMU.
Keysight 1253-5826
Phoenix Contact MSTB 2,5/4-S
<<

Threre you have it.

No you don't. That is not a full PC part number and most importantly it does not define the contact pitch.....

Edit the HPAK part appears to be a MSTB 2,5/ 4-STF IF the description in Keysight's PartsFinder of 5mm pitch is correct.
These parts don't even have numbers marked on them so it's hard to confirm. Careful measurement is required. It's only 0.24mm difference across a 3 pin connector

You're right, I cut off the cut-and-paste, it's "STF" at the end. Might stand for the mounting screws, which not all connectors do have. I found 5.08 only with this part number.
But, anyhow, it's a follow-up-discussion to that some 10 pages above about my HP6653A. Your community hints to the 5.00/5.08 problem was very helpful to me indeed. But the measurement itself is quite simple: As the conneoctors are a stackable concept, you can measure the full width of the plastics with calipers and divide by n+1. That avoids trying to align caliper tips with pins. For this 4pin it would be a 0.40mm difference 5.00 vs 5.08 pitch. I ordered 5.08 and they do fit perfectly fine. In that course I already sent Saskia a sample of my chinesium purchase, so the 5.00/5.08 question is answered.

The missing info needed was, that Keysigth uses the Phoenix standard parts and documents this in the manual of the newer devices (they did give this info in the older HP66xxA papers).
From my point of view, giving that info now they are perfectly fine with customers using original Phoenix connectors.

But it's up to Saskia to decide what will make a save feeling of course. 

[BU508A]

Perish the thought!  What's a proper English home without the obligatory English garden?

Asterix in Britain:



 

[Peter_O]

"Another 2000 years of love an care" is a running gag with my friends over decades. Love it.
One of my top Asterix pages ever.   

[Brumby]

I still have your name on that 7603 7623 and PIs collection.........

Cool  . Let me move house first. Might not have room for it yet 

Ohhhhhh.... NOW I remember him.

Welcome back BD!

[Robert763]

Well if you want those connectors and are willing to pay the additional shipping to Deutschland (about $20 USD) then send me a PM and we'll get the order in.   

The connectors are a pretty standard Phoenix Contact part, can't see why you wouldn't find them in Germany, same for the fuses. The only thing to bear in mind with the Phoenix Contact offerings is to make sure you measure the pitch correctly; 5.00mm looks very much like 5.08mm...



EDIT: If RS do them, can't imagine Reichelt or whoever not stocking them.

I know, this may sound strange to you.
but there is a good reason for going with that original Keysight labelled atuff: liability. not holding an EE degree someone could actually say that I was negligent in obtaining something which does not have the original part number if indeed something went wrong. Problem is: without the EE degree I would have considerable burden of proof. I won't by using original parts for
the PSU.
for this amount of money involved it is not worth taking any risk. Why am I so anal about it ? cut I been there done that...

For these ones it's simple and save.
Within the original keysight N5700 manual
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/pdf/n6700b_manual.pdf

they wrote on page 25:
>>
12 A Output Connector plug One 12 A, 4-pin connector plug for connecting power and sense
leads. Used in all except N6731B, N6741B, N6753A-N6756A,
N6763A-N6766A, N6773A, N678xA SMU.
Keysight 1253-5826
Phoenix Contact MSTB 2,5/4-S
<<

Threre you have it.

No you don't. That is not a full PC part number and most importantly it does not define the contact pitch.....

Edit the HPAK part appears to be a MSTB 2,5/ 4-STF IF the description in Keysight's PartsFinder of 5mm pitch is correct.
These parts don't even have numbers marked on them so it's hard to confirm. Careful measurement is required. It's only 0.24mm difference across a 3 pin connector

You're right, I cut off the cut-and-paste, it's "STF" at the end. Might stand for the mounting screws, which not all connectors do have. I found 5.08 only with this part number.
But, anyhow, it's a follow-up-discussion to that some 10 pages above about my HP6653A. Your community hints to the 5.00/5.08 problem was very helpful to me indeed. But the measurement itself is quite simple: As the conneoctors are a stackable concept, you can measure the full width of the plastics with calipers and divide by n+1. That avoids trying to align caliper tips with pins. For this 4pin it would be a 0.40mm difference 5.00 vs 5.08 pitch. I ordered 5.08 and they do fit perfectly fine. In that course I already sent Saskia a sample of my chinesium purchase, so the 5.00/5.08 question is answered.

The missing info needed was, that Keysigth uses the Phoenix standard parts and documents this in the manual of the newer devices (they did give this info in the older HP66xxA papers).
From my point of view, giving that info now they are perfectly fine with customers using original Phoenix connectors.

But it's up to Saskia to decide what will make a save feeling of course.

The T in the suffix is 5.0mm pitch, F is fixing screws.
These PC parts are very hard to identify exactly.

[bd139]

Wow indeed, is that even possible to have space for TE, the closer to the city you go, the more expensive the property gets and also generally smaller and looks more like flatland with zero garden space.

Perish the thought!  What's a proper English home without the obligatory English garden?

It will look like my apartment. 

I don't want a garden. Have to mow it and clean up the fox shit and that is time away from more important things.

Looking at a rather large 2 bed apartment with terrace / balcony overlooking the Thames at the moment. Floors are concrete so fine for boat anchors 



There's only two of us going to be in it (I'll get into that another day  )

[tggzzz]

Looking at a rather large 2 bed apartment with terrace / balcony overlooking the Thames at the moment. Floors are concrete so fine for boat anchors 

Cladding, and the desireability of such?
Exponentially increasing ground rents?
Maintenance cost determined by whom? (E.g. a builder in cahoots with the owner?)

[Vince]

HP 120B scope update

Oh not yet another of his updates, he pisses us off, someone please tell him to shut the fuck up !

Don't worry... this is the very last update on this scope... I have just received my new 6AQ5 oscillator tubes, so I started working on the scope again.
After only 30 minutes it was declared dead. It is now officially unfixable, 100% certain, it's a door stop.

For the few who actually care about the details... well here is what happened.

So I put one these NOS 6AQ5. It improved things...input grid voltage not so much, still at 150V like yesterday, however output gird voltage was better at -90+ Volts following power up (was80 yesterday), so closer to the nominal -123V indicated on the schematic. Plus, as seconds were passing, it was getting more and more negative, progressively, steadily, getting closer and closer to the nominal voltage. After I don't know, 3 minutes or so, it did get to the -120V mark ! 

So... at that point I thought OK, HV should be in good shape now, I should have a trace on the screen ! So I bent my neck to have a glimpse of the CRT... no trace. Then realized that the what.... WHAT ?!
The cathode heater in the CRT was not glowing anymore ?!       
Then I started hearing arcing ! So I stopped probing the grid voltages and instead tried to locate / identify the arcing. It was random so not easy. After a few minutes the verdict came in : the main (mains) transformer is sparking all over the place ! Between the insulating tape on the outside of the winding, and chassis it was sitting on. I even saw sparks, once, between two of the ' E - I ' metal sheets of the core of the transformer ! 

So... I probed all the voltage rails, they were all fine.
Since the heater was not glowing, I then turned my attention to the winding whose sole purpose is to supply 6Vac to the CRT heater. Bingo... was dead while arcing.. but fine when not arcing.
This winding is elevated to the potential of the cathode, i.e. 2500V. The markings on the transformer state that this winding's insulation is good for 5.5kV. Well looks like not any more is it... 
Well I guess I could alwyas fit a little 6V supply of my own to replace that failed winding. This way it would not be tied to the cathode HV hence should not spark ant more.
It would not look stock, it would be an add-on.. but, if it can get the heater working again, why not. Function first hey...

However I was still worried because the heater would not glow even when the transformer was not arcing and the heater voltage was present. So I feared that when the transformer failed it might have led to a spurious, transient HV event that blew the crap out of the filament. So I measured it and yeah, it's open circuit 

Then as I looked through the glass of the CRT neck to try and see the filament inside.. I noticed oh no... a huge hair crack in the glass at the neck ! 

No, I didn't bang the CRT, always took great care of it, believe me or not I don't care.. I know what I did and didn't do, and hitting the CRT neck was never part of it.

So.... end of story.

I still like this scope very much and would love to see it fixed and working, so I can play with it but.... bad transformer and dear CRT, that's too much for me 
so I will button it back up and maybe in 10 years I will find a cheap parts mule to fix this one, or the other way around, use this one as a donour to fix a twin brother.

But I am not holding my breath. I am not going to find another of these ever, over here. It was an impulse buy because it looked cool, was HP, was free and in good nick... so I felt it deserved to be saved but... it does not want to be saved it seems 

So if someone finds another one of these dirt cheap, in bad condition, so I can salvage a CRT and transformer as well hopefully... don't hesitate to contact me ! 


That's all for this scope.... I am well pissed.

[bd139]

Looking at a rather large 2 bed apartment with terrace / balcony overlooking the Thames at the moment. Floors are concrete so fine for boat anchors 

Cladding, and the desireability of such?
Exponentially increasing ground rents?
Maintenance cost determined by whom? (E.g. a builder in cahoots with the owner?)

No cladding. Newly built, first floor so getting a roll down ladder. As for rest, renting all fees included for 12-18 months so not my fecking problem 

[bd139]

That's all for this scope.... I am well pissed.

Ah crap sorry to hear that.

Had the same thing with a Tek 465 ages ago

[mnementh]

  Is my new, almost safe vfo part a commercial product?

Who cares? It's effing gorgeous, man. Like something from a 50s scifi/horror movie laboratory. 

mnem

[mnementh]

   That's all for this scope.... I am well pissed.

Ah crap sorry to hear that. Had the same thing with a Tek 465 ages ago

Same here, man. I think we've all had similar tales of woe... better luck next time, and hopefully the TEA network will magic something your way before you give up and kick the carcass to the curb... 

mnem
such is the life of a fixer in this disposable world...