Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[vk6zgo]

lng, cng and lpg systems are subject to very regular and thorough inspections and leakage checks. filling up is really not difficult, if you are not a complete dumbass. don't talk about the theoretical problems if you have zero real life experience with that one.
can we skip that topic  now ?

It is inherently more dangerous because it is under pressure. No matter what you say to the contrary, the fact that all these systems have to be frequently inspected, and that you have to have training to operate the filling station by definition proves that point.

You just stated the point I'm making: The average motorist IS a complete dumbass; or at least enough of them that you don't dare allow any fueling station be operated unattended. Imagine the corner gas station in the US with a safety-trained attendant for every fuel pump. The notion is ludicrous. 

I do have real-life experience with more than one kind of pressurized fuel. I have worked in a bus garage where they ran CNG and LPG, and actually know the LPG hardware pretty well. I have have done several LPG conversions, and I took the training to operate their backfill LPG filling station. I also know the difference between high-pressure, low-pressure and non-pressurized fuels.

I have also worked the cascade systems filling air tanks for our Scott packs at the Fire Dept; these operated at 4500PSIG, but newer systems operate at 5,500 PSIG to give the firefighter a few more minutes air. We also had Dräger rebreather packs, but those tanks were managed by an outside vendor. I was, however, trained and certified to service and maintain the Scott SCBA system while I was at the Dept.

Working steel, I have handled high-pressure 0₂ and low-pressure acetylene on a daily basis. I have seen first-hand the amount of energy just the pressures involved can deliver: An 0₂ K tank knocked over in my high-school metal shop by a vendor operating a forklift hit just right to snap the valve off; the pressure in that tank was enough to propel it through a sand-casting pit, across the shop and embed itself 6 inches into a concrete wall. Old man Kirsch made sure every student got to see the damage as a warning before they cleaned up the mess.

CNG tanks operate at ~3600PSIG; almost twice that of a welding O₂ tank. And the fuel is highly volatile. LPG is dangerous enough; it is low-pressure, just enough to keep it in a liquid state, but CNG is exponentially more dangerous because of the pressures involved. I certainly don't trust the average motorist to safely handle either.

I spent my time searching for "the better fuel" to make ICEs safe for people and safe for the future. There isn't one.

Seriously... the way you talk about it, you simply have not got appropriate respect for just how dangerous this stuff is, and the bottom line is it's all still fossil fuel, and is still burning stuff to make our energy, so it cannot be sustained.

mnem

CNG is extensively used in urban bus systems in Oz, but, yes, they fill up at the depot, where there are trained personnel.
LPG, on the other hand is commonly available at fuel stations, along with the diesel & petrol pumps, & is used safely by thousands of "average motorists"-------go figure!

[Specmaster]

<snip>

Thats' OK, as a Skoda driver by choice we can tell you're not really interested in cars. 

<snip>

Hah hah, on this occasion you couldn't be more wrong if you tried, my car was chosen for many reasons and cost was definitely not one of them. My car had to be many things to me on business and personal levels and even today it does not disappoint, for instance it has as standard foot rests for the rear passengers, it is larger in the rear than many limousines. You really should check out today's Skodas, there are no longer the joke of car industry like they used to be. 

To quote Mandy Rice-Davies: "Well, 'e would say that. Wouldn't 'e!".

To be a Skoda driver you have to be prepared to be the butt of many a joke. Still, at least you've still got Lada and Trabant drivers to take the mickey of. 

Nope, you have it all wrong, that's why my car was worth more at the end of its 3-year lease, despite being much less to lease each month then a smaller, and less well-equipped Audi A4, and also why as the car turns 9 years old, there are still 91% of the Skoda Superb Laurin & Klements on the road today compared with just 69% of the A4's.

Throughout the Superb's life, it has won award after award, year in year out, it continues to impress those who drive them and it also as a mater of fact won the CarWow best large car plug-in hybrid in 2021. There are 2 kinds of people, those who know and those that don't, and it's that small minority who don't, that continue in their denial that Skoda's are no longer the joke of the car industry.

[mnementh]

CNG is extensively used in urban bus systems in Oz, but, yes, they fill up at the depot, where there are trained personnel. LPG, on the other hand is commonly available at fuel stations, along with the diesel & petrol pumps, & is used safely by thousands of "average motorists" ------- go figure!

LOL... yeah, we've kindof beat this horse    to a fine puree already... we decided the primary difference of opinion lies in just how dumb the average American^* motorist is.

Please, lets just allow the poor thing to be absorbed by topsoil so nature can take its course...

mnem
*home of the "Here, hold muh beer and watch this!" school of driving

[Specmaster]

Something to distract from the regular autoshite discussion, a cheap & slightly tatty looking 54600A scope for approx $50 including shipping in the US, I saw it last night, but can't work out why it hasn't sold. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304467178603



David

I doubt that anybody in the UK would contemplate considering that, because of the shipping / import duty would more then negate the low price. Also of the listing does imply that shipping to the UK may not even an option that the seller will consider.

Edit: It has been removed from sale, unclear if this has been sold or just removed.

[mnementh]

mnem
squeeeee!

[Specmaster]

CNG is extensively used in urban bus systems in Oz, but, yes, they fill up at the depot, where there are trained personnel. LPG, on the other hand is commonly available at fuel stations, along with the diesel & petrol pumps, & is used safely by thousands of "average motorists" ------- go figure!

LOL... yeah, we've kindof beat this horse    to a fine puree already... we decided the primary difference of opinion lies in just how dumb the average American^* motorist is.

Please, lets just allow the poor thing to be absorbed by topsoil so nature can take its course...

mnem
*home of the "Here, hold muh beer and watch this!" school of driving

Over here in UK, LPG is not readily available at refilling stations, 5 have there are just 5 stations selling it across the entire county of Essex and none are in the city, nearest one is 7 miles away and is infact a fuel storage dept, so may not even sell it to motorists, maybe it is still largely the preserve of large fleet operators on local journeys?

Edit: CNG seems to not be available anywhere to buy in the UK.

[vk6zgo]

I still like our pregnant Camry. 

mnem
*currently dissecting a FatBike battery charging problem*

You'll still be liking it in 15 years, (if you can still buy dinosaur juice).

[mnementh]

I still like our pregnant Camry. 

mnem
*currently dissecting a FatBike battery charging problem*

You'll still be liking it in 15 years, (if you can still buy dinosaur juice).

If I can't... I think I smell a EV conversion on the winds of change.

https://batteryhookup.com

mnem
how sad is it that I can type that URL from muscle memory...?

[TERRA Operative]

Well, besides the TDS784D I'm battling with in previous posts, I'm happy to announce that I have just managed to get two more fully working, options unlocked and firmware updated. 
The power buttons are a bit hard to press, so I'll pick up some conductive carbon paint tomorrow to recoat the carbon contact pads in the rubber membrane.

Next on the list is a TDS620B modded to TDS680B that doesn't boot (I think something around the NVRAM is busted) and a TDS714L that doesn't want to give a video signal to the CRT but works fine otherwise.

[mnementh]

    Returning the favor... For the Sony/Tek collab fans: A working/tested 305 DMM just $126 shipped: eBay auction: #354020316682

Calibration mere decades out of date!   

mnem
 

[mansaxel]

And now for something completely discord

I was completely absent, due to commitments in 30th of April being bonfire night in Sweden.

[mansaxel]

Brothers and sister, I have a confession to make:



I got an offer so accepted. Here in one to two weeks or so.  The lack of plugins and it being the L model does not bother me; for the purposes -- displaying 10MHz references derived from network clocks -- it needs to be locked to the Master Reference anyway, and 10MHz is easy on the normal integrated input.

Edit: Having said that, I'll need to make sure it can take a 10MHz reference, though. Or I'll have to build a divider.

[Cerebus]

And now for something completely discord

I was completely absent, due to commitments in 30th of April being bonfire night in Sweden.

I must confess it took me a moment to figure that one out. Then I remembered that you're all heathens up there so it's what the Celts call Beltane.

[TERRA Operative]

Aaannnd I have a previously busted TDS620B booting as a TDS680B! A board swap and reflash of firmware gave it the kick in the pants it needed. 
Just running the Signal Patch Compensation routine now to see if it comes good with no boot errors (I think the NVRAM reflash had it freaking out a little as it stores the SPC values, which were wrong for this combination of parts).

I used a board from a busted dumpster-rescue of a 700 series scope, which I converted to 600 series. It just needed the video chips swapped and some parts relocated. The extra video RAM (and maybe faster CPU?) etc does make for a more responsive UI too  )


[EDIT] And it passes everything with no errors at all! Yay! Once I get my cal setup finished, I'll calibrate this modded TDS680B to the full 1GHz, then it's all done 100%.

[Specmaster]

And now for something completely discord

I was completely absent, due to commitments in 30th of April being bonfire night in Sweden.

I must confess it took me a moment to figure that one out. Then I remembered that you're all heathens up there so it's what the Celts call Beltane.

Must mean their phone network has failed yet again.

[mansaxel]

I must confess it took me a moment to figure that one out. Then I remembered that you're all heathens up there so it's what the Celts call Beltane.

Also, it's the current Kings brithday, which is why public transport sports flags on all buses, as it's a common flag hoisting day. (Days when it's Good Form to hoist the flag should you have a flag pole; they're marked so in the calendars.)

But yes, bonfires are heathen initially.

[factory]

Something to distract from the regular autoshite discussion, a cheap & slightly tatty looking 54600A scope for approx $50 including shipping in the US, I saw it last night, but can't work out why it hasn't sold. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304467178603



David

I doubt that anybody in the UK would contemplate considering that, because of the shipping / import duty would more then negate the low price. Also of the listing does imply that shipping to the UK may not even an option that the seller will consider.

Edit: It has been removed from sale, unclear if this has been sold or just removed.

Did I not mention the approx price with shipping in the US? I regularly search for HP stuff in the UK, US & Europe, I found that scope listed yesterday and posted it here in case any TEA addicts in the US were interested, did I do something wrong? 
If that had been in the UK at a similarly low price, I doubt it would have been still available the next day.

mnem
squeeeee!

Hope it gets packed properly and arrives it the same condition as advertised.

David

[Cubdriver]

    Returning the favor... For the Sony/Tek collab fans: A working/tested 305 DMM just $126 shipped: eBay auction: #354020316682

Calibration mere decades out of date!   

mnem
 

I’ve never understood why the 'tested, working' people on the bay so rarely show a photo with it working.  Yes, we see the DMM part lit up and basically showing zeroes, but why no trace?  Add a pic with a 9 V battery connected to the meter, and one with the scope at least showing a trace, better with it showing the cal signal.

Why is this such a difficult concept?  I can understand a dealer (who *might* also have some better credibility regarding such an assessment) that wants to crank through photographing things for sale quickly not taking the time, but a private seller making the claim has a bit more onus on them IMO and should also have the time to take a pic.

-Pat

[BU508A]

Marco Reps got a black 3458B 3458A last year from Keysight:

[factory]

Brothers and sister, I have a confession to make:



I got an offer so accepted. Here in one to two weeks or so.  The lack of plugins and it being the L model does not bother me; for the purposes -- displaying 10MHz references derived from network clocks -- it needs to be locked to the Master Reference anyway, and 10MHz is easy on the normal integrated input.

Edit: Having said that, I'll need to make sure it can take a 10MHz reference, though. Or I'll have to build a divider.

Glad I could help  The external ref input is 1MHz, plug-ins turn up often enough, with the exception of the DVM one.

David

[Cubdriver]

Brothers and sister, I have a confession to make:



I got an offer so accepted. Here in one to two weeks or so.  The lack of plugins and it being the L model does not bother me; for the purposes -- displaying 10MHz references derived from network clocks -- it needs to be locked to the Master Reference anyway, and 10MHz is easy on the normal integrated input.

Edit: Having said that, I'll need to make sure it can take a 10MHz reference, though. Or I'll have to build a divider.

Congrats - nice!  It looks like it has all its feet, too.  And plan to build a divider - the older ones at least have 1 MHz oscillators and external inputs. It wants 1 MHz 1 V into 1000 ohms per the specs (table 1.2) in the manual.

https://bama.edebris.com/download/hp/5245/HP%205245%20L%20-%20Electronic%20counter.pdf

The scan on the BAMA site linked above is a pretty good one.

-Pat

Edit to fix borked manual link

[Vince]

HP 120B update

It is quite common for perfectly functional 6AQ5s to be black inside----I got caught with that the first few times, too!

Ah, good to know indeed ! I will keep them then, in case they might be good !
That's a bummer though... because if they are good, then I have no hope anymore of fixing this HV... having checked everything but replacing the tube. 

I did notice that a black voltage regulator tube, could be good... because the one in the HP scope was all black, went to replace it with one from a Tek scope (they sue the same tube type) and the one in shte Tek scope was all black too ! Found it a bit strange so I didn't replace it and gave the black one in the HP, a chance... and indeed it works just fine ! I measured it's voltage drop, it's spot on.

[Vince]

Yeah I hope that's it.  I have just ordered x3 NOS 6AQ5 from Ebay France, so hopefully I shall receive them late next week all going well.

30 Euros shipped. 10 Euros per tube. Not cheap by my wallet standards, but not crazy expensive either, for NOS tubes I mean.

Best deal was 4 NOS ones for 18 Euros shipped, but they come from Ukraine so delivery time, or delivery at all really, is unknown. I don't want to waste 18 Euros down the drain nor wait 3 months to get them 

So hoping to get my tubes late next week then. In the meantime I will resume work on the Rochar Nixie DMM  I think

How fast are your peek hold meters, can't you expect some results from them?

I am really sorry but I don't understand what you mean ?! 
My English is not up to sniff it looks like 

Could you rephrase that please ?

[med6753]

I'm now a proud member of the Tektronix 321 club - bought one today.  It has some issues (trace doesn't entirely span the screen, for one), but at first brush is at least basically functional.





It will certainly need some TLC and cleanup, along with a bit of dent removal, but I'm good with that.  (And I'd like to find a tiny Tek knob to replace the bodged on HP one on the scale illumination pot...)

-Pat

Welcome to the Type321/321A club.  I might have the correct scale illum knob in my stash but I doubt it. I'll check anyway.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Yeah I hope that's it.  I have just ordered x3 NOS 6AQ5 from Ebay France, so hopefully I shall receive them late next week all going well.

30 Euros shipped. 10 Euros per tube. Not cheap by my wallet standards, but not crazy expensive either, for NOS tubes I mean.

Best deal was 4 NOS ones for 18 Euros shipped, but they come from Ukraine so delivery time, or delivery at all really, is unknown. I don't want to waste 18 Euros down the drain nor wait 3 months to get them 

So hoping to get my tubes late next week then. In the meantime I will resume work on the Rochar Nixie DMM  I think

How fast are your peek hold meters, can't you expect some results from them?

I am really sorry but I don't understand what you mean ?! 
My English is not up to sniff it looks like 

Could you rephrase that please ?

Your English is up to snuff to a far higher degree than MK's messages are comprehensible.