Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

I'd be very leery of using that made in PLA especially for 220V mains; it is hygroscopic. 

I'd def want to print that in some other plastic. I'd also probably remix it a bit to make clearance for heat-shrink tubing around the crimps. With that mod, I probably wouldn't be afraid to use it for 120V mains printed in PLA... maybe.    Let me cogitate on it a bit and I'll get back to you... 


Hmmmmmm...

I don't have a Megger anymore, but I do think I'd be interested in seeing such testing of PLA parts exposed to long periods of really damp weather. Maybe a few rounds of HiPot testing to see if they'll light up; that could actually make for some good cinema! 

mnem

Relax, PLA is fine.      https://youtu.be/qqNfa_zExRU

Meanwhile I'm thinking: If the pins are 4mm, an universal mains adapter with three single banana females would be just fine.   

IMHO the biggest risk is not the hygroscopic thing, but that at  about 150°C PLA starts to degrade its insulators properties. So... for mains in case there is some overheating in the plug (not fully seated, intermittent contact... ) you are basically releasing the holy smoke a few minutes after....

Yeeeahhh... Evidently neither of you caught on that I was in fact referring to the potential for moisture-laden PLA to possibly become conductive to some extent; I thought my reference to HV testing with a Megger and HiPot testing made that obvious. 

Thought process was this: PLA can literally collect and hold enough water from the air to create tiny steam events when printing, causing artifacts. If that moisture also makes it somewhat conductive, HiPot testing could create arcing, and PLA does burn readily. I'd be curious to see testing along those lines from someone equipped to do it.

mnem
I love the smell of napalm burning PLA in the morning! Smells like french-fries!!!   
 

[Saskia]

you could actually try to dissolve it in Benzene ...
but I guess, polystyrene might be better suited ...

[ch_scr]

(...)
Yeeeahhh... Evidently neither of you caught on that I was in fact referring to the potential for moisture-laden PLA to possibly become conductive to some extent; I thought my reference to HV testing with a Megger and HiPot testing made that obvious. 

Thought process was this: PLA can literally collect and hold enough water from the air to create tiny steam events when printing, causing artifacts. If that moisture also makes it somewhat conductive, HiPot testing could create arcing, and PLA does burn readily. I'd be curious to see testing along those lines from someone equipped to do it.

mnem
I love the smell of napalm burning PLA in the morning! Smells like french-fries!!!   

Yes it's a "dry" test, but still, it gives an idea. I'm with zucca, melting is the real concern. There exists flame retardant PETG - it also gets soft at a higher temp (PETG in general, compared to PLA).

[Peter_O]

If you're scared and want to print electronic casing nevertheless you'd possibly take ABS!?

[mansaxel]

If you're scared and want to print electronic casing nevertheless you'd possibly take ABS!?

I'm more for putting a C6 inlet there. That's a minimum-invasive solution that will bring benefits to the safety of all involved. That oval crap gives me the creeps; what with literally no recess of the socket contacts in the cable connector, it's a safety disaster waiting to happen.

On a similar note, one of these cables failed me last summer, on our 12/230V portable cooler:



I did not realise how much of a standard it is, so falsely assumed a replacement would be unobtainium. Also, failure mode (widening of connector sockets) says it'll happen again. So, I replaced with a powerpole pair, to ham radio specs, which is the connector standard I use for all 12V supply purposes.  Now I only need to get a lighter outlet in the trunk / boot as my last car has, and we'll be going again.

[YurkshireLad]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

[Vince]

Looks to me as if your are not at all at the right place here ?  TEA is about the OPPOSITE problem... getting way more TE than you will ever use, never mind need.... whereas YOU do the exact opposite... you DO genuinely more TE, yet you do all you can to manage NOT buying it ! 

Well yes I guess we can help you, you are right..... I INSTRUCT you to get a decent 4 channel scope, Immediately ! 

.. then once you get your first real scope, you will want another one, and another one and.... you then will be truly a TEA buddy !

So what's your budget ? What are the requirements ? Digital ? Analog ? Combined analog+digital ? B/W ? Serial decoding ? colour screen ? LCD screen or CRT ?
Old cool stuff, or new Chinese stuff ? GPIB / interfaces ?

[tggzzz]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

Yet another example (if one was needed) that solderless breadboards are the work of the devil, and you spend more time debugging the breadboard than your circuit.

You only need therapy if you continue to use a solderless breadboard.

[YurkshireLad]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

Yet another example (if one was needed) that solderless breadboards are the work of the devil, and you spend more time debugging the breadboard than your circuit.

You only need therapy if you continue to use a solderless breadboard.

I don't disagree. So far only one breadboard has had problems. Otherwise they've worked well for my needs.

[med6753]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

DSO or analog?

This may sound surprising coming from me but I recommend for you go for the most DSO you can afford and learn how to use it. 2 or 4 channel, 200MHz minimum unless you're into real high speed digital or RF. Then later on with some "mad" money get an older Tek analog. 

[Vince]

We can't suggest anything until we have the requirements, including the budget of course...

To begin with, what are the specs of the scope he successfully managed to get the job done with ?
what added performance and/or features he feels he would need or want, on top of the existing scope ?

[YurkshireLad]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

DSO or analog?

This may sound surprising coming from me but I recommend for you go for the most DSO you can afford and learn how to use it. 2 or 4 channel, 200MHz minimum unless you're into real high speed digital or RF. Then later on with some "mad" money get an older Tek analog.

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

[Vince]

Just received my third and last (for now at least !  Ebay round of SECME DJET 10mm switches !

So now I have 30 DJET. x6 small 6mm ones, that I already had from salvaging god knows what god knows when, and x24 10mm ones from ebay.

I have plenty of the toggle kind now, however the push-button kind, appears to be much more difficult to find. I have only 3 of them and just noticed after playing with them a minute ago, that one of the 3 is dead. The spring mechanism inside is kaput, does weird things. Tried to exercise it a bit it won't heal. Think I will tear it apart to see how it's put together inside...
So... I don't forbid myself from buying more of the push-button kind in the future, if I come across some at a decent price...

[Vince]

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

OK so that answers most of my previous questions !

So it's digital only, modern, Chinese, LCD, colour, and less than 500 Euros with tax.

From your list, the Siglent is by far my favorite. 100MHz instead of 50 for the Rigol. Siglent also looks like a proper tool/scope, the Rigol looks like a Playschool toy for a 5 year old that watches too many Japanese manga on TV.

Out of your list, to me the Siglent is a no brainer.

Actually that Siglent kinda meets my requirements too....might be tempted, in a few years once they sell the 200MHz version of this, for the same price.
I see they have improved the industrial design, out with the ugly chromed knobs. It now looks like... pretty much a Tek.
Still need some minor work on that column of oval push buttons on the right side of the screen, looks off.. too Agilent/Keysight like, in a bad way I mean...

[med6753]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

DSO or analog?

This may sound surprising coming from me but I recommend for you go for the most DSO you can afford and learn how to use it. 2 or 4 channel, 200MHz minimum unless you're into real high speed digital or RF. Then later on with some "mad" money get an older Tek analog.

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

I can understand inflation, expenses, etc. No room? That's lame.  Make room. It's not like you're trying to shove 10 pounds into 2 pound bag like I am.  And notice the Siglent DSO behind it and how little room it requires.   

[tautech]

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

OK so that answer most of my previous questions !

So it's digital only, modern, Chinese, LCD, colour, and less than 500 Euros with tax.

From your list, the Siglent is by far my favorite. 100MHz instead of 4 for the Rigol. Siglent also looks like a proper tool/scope, the rigol looks like Playschool toy for a 5 year old that watches too many Japanese manga on TV.

Out of your list, to me the Siglent is a no brainer.

Actually that Siglent kinda meets my requirements too....might be tempted, in a few years once they sell the 200MHz version of this, for the same price.
I see they have improved the industrial design, out with the ugly chromed knobs. It now looks like... pretty much a Tek.
Still need some minor work on that column of oval push buttons on the right side of the screen, looks off.. too Agilent/Keysight like, in a bad way I mean...

Oh you're a fussy bugger Vince  especially when I think of some of the historical French design work. 

Actually the chrome front and rubberized encoder knobs are better than the newer versions on the $ SDS6000A ! 

[Specmaster]

From the I NEED TO KILL A HOUR OR SO Dept...



This horror show SeaMaster 120 cost $2K in non-running condition.   

Still, very interesting to watch... especially the special tools and consumables involved.

mnem

I also sometimes view these watch restoration channels, they are very interesting and as you rightly said those special tools are interesting also, and I bet some of them are mega expensive, especially the tool for checking the accuracy of the timing adjustment  .

One thing for sure, I'd never pay 2K for a watch, let alone for a not working 2nd hand fixer upper gamble like he did, but full marks, it came good in the end. The most expensive watch I have would cost when it was new £800, I got it 2nd hand a couple of years later for £400, then I decided to purchase its less expensive sibling, brand new, and it was £430 and these 2 are my pride and joy and only come out on special occasions. Then I saw another Citizen watch, supposed a new authentic watch at a bargain price, purchased it, and it was of course a fake. Citizen watches, it turns out I was told by a jeweller, are the world's most faked watches, so I complained to the site that it was a fake and I received a full refund, it also is now of the watch I wear almost all the time 


Citizen Skyhawk


Citizen Red Atomic


Fake Blue Angels

[tggzzz]

I've been putting off buying a bench oscilloscope, but I was trying to debug a circuit and I really needed to simultaneously monitor 2-4 points. I managed with my single channel toy and eventually worked out that the breadboard was bowed in the middle and any connections were untrustworthy at best. I need therapy.

DSO or analog?

This may sound surprising coming from me but I recommend for you go for the most DSO you can afford and learn how to use it. 2 or 4 channel, 200MHz minimum unless you're into real high speed digital or RF. Then later on with some "mad" money get an older Tek analog.

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

The aphorisms in my .SIG is relevant

[Vince]

I'm the epitome of an absolute beginner so I don't need more than a Siglent SDS104X-U, GW Instek 1054B or Rigol DS1054Z. I'm close to pulling the trigger but it's hard to justify for various reasons of inflation and other expenses. I also don't have any room for it, otherwise I'd be cracking open my wallet faster than you can say fast fourier transform.

OK so that answer most of my previous questions !

So it's digital only, modern, Chinese, LCD, colour, and less than 500 Euros with tax.

From your list, the Siglent is by far my favorite. 100MHz instead of 4 for the Rigol. Siglent also looks like a proper tool/scope, the rigol looks like Playschool toy for a 5 year old that watches too many Japanese manga on TV.

Out of your list, to me the Siglent is a no brainer.

Actually that Siglent kinda meets my requirements too....might be tempted, in a few years once they sell the 200MHz version of this, for the same price.
I see they have improved the industrial design, out with the ugly chromed knobs. It now looks like... pretty much a Tek.
Still need some minor work on that column of oval push buttons on the right side of the screen, looks off.. too Agilent/Keysight like, in a bad way I mean...

Oh you're a fussy bugger Vince  especially when I think of some of the historical French design work. 

Actually the chrome front and rubberized encoder knobs are better than the newer versions on the $ SDS6000A ! 

I am not fussy Sir Tautech. If I am to spend money on something it's only logical that look at what product I like best, in everyt respect, and there are many.

French scopes ? Not sure what you mean, do we make scopes in France ?? 

I don't see what that has to do with anything though. Do you imply that I would buy an ugly cheap toy looking scope like Rigol, if it were French ?!
I already said I am not into that blind stupid patriot BS. If it's crap and augly, I am not gonna buy it, period.

If it's Chinese but I like it, I would consider it.

I was very nice with this Siglent, I was hoping you would appreciate 
I said I was very tempted... I don't see how I could be nicer than this. 
If they keep improving the industrial design, soon I might buy some Siglent stuff, seeing they are several times cheaper than the R&S I really would want.

I am being NICE to Siglent, Tautech, can't you see ?! 

[tautech]

I am being NICE to Siglent, Tautech, can't you see ?! 

Yes I can see Vince, as for French designs the first that comes to mind is the Citroën 2CV, something only a mother could love  however the Asians have made some awful stuff too. 

[Vince]

I thought we were talking scopes ? You lost me Tautech ! 

The 2CV looks cool, well depends on the colour and paint work of course. I hate them in beige, ir the really old ones with only one headlight. But when they are in vibrant, funky colours they look cool.  A bit like the first generation of Renault Twingo (not the ridiculous and crappy Mk2 or current Mk3 Twingo).

I would not knock on the 2CV at all. There are tons of other French cars that are way more ugly and uninspiring than the 2CV. Mostly anything from the 70s or '80s or anything from the late '90's up to this day. But that holds true for every manufacturer. To me the early to mid '90's were the epitome of cars both style-wise and technolog- wise, reliability-ise, bullet-proof-wise, ease of maintenance wise, cost of ownership-wise... everything-wise really.

I hope I have not just opened yet another can of worms... 

[tautech]

I hope I have not just opened yet another can of worms... 

Isn't that just what we do here whenever there's no TEA content to share ? 

[Vince]

Oh boy ! Quick, some TEA content we need to share then, QUICK, QUICK QUICK  !!  TEA content please !!! 

Oh here is some, we are saved !!! 

This evening I started recapping my Tek 180A Time Mark Generator, to clean up all my cap bodges that I did while I was troubleshooting it the other day.

I have received the fancy expensive mica caps from Germany to replace the 3 leaky old Domino mica caps.
That's done.

Now I need to replace all the old leaky electrolytics with nice axial film caps, the yellow stuff. They fit nicely and look cool, love them.
I had a few left from when I restored my first glowing Tek 5 years ago. So I was able to replace the 10nF and 100nF.

Now I still have to replace the  2.2nF, 3.3nF, 18nF, 220nF and 1uF ones.

Problem : these yellow axial caps appear to not be very easy to find HERE (please don't throw again Mouser links at me).

I fail to find a vendor that has all the values I need, in a given supplier and series, at the proper voltage rating.
Just like my recap of the 2467B PSU, recapping this Time Mark Generator proves once again to be a major PITA.

So I was wondering... are these yellow axial caps any different than the radial ones ? Radial ones are plentiful of course so that would fix my supply chain problem for sure...
I favour axial for looks and originality, but in case I don't have a choice, I prefer to know my options...

Also, these axial ones usually come in 3 flavours : PS, PE or PP.

I gather PS is the super high-end mega expensive stuff, don't need nor can afford that.

I am more interested in the difference between PE and PP, the two most common and more affordable types.

As well as between MKT and MKP which are the two types I see all the time... but have no idea how to make an informed decision.


See, some TEA content, no need to open worm cans !!! 

[TERRA Operative]

IMHO the biggest risk is not the hygroscopic thing, but that at  about 150°C PLA starts to degrade its insulators properties. So... for mains in case there is some overheating in the plug (not fully seated, intermittent contact... ) you are basically releasing the holy smoke a few minutes after....

PVC cable is usually rated to 90degC, 125 if it's high temperature. Glass transition temperatures not considered.

[Specmaster]

I am being NICE to Siglent, Tautech, can't you see ?! 

Yes I can see Vince, as for French designs the first that comes to mind is the Citroën 2CV, something only a mother could love  however the Asians have made some awful stuff too. 

True, but the DS23 was a thing of beauty.